Testing/Request thread and eventual guide!**THIS WEEK'S TESTING:Raptor Boost/Fsmash**

well lately iv been dong A LOT of testing with Falcon, from finding IASA frames, to new approaches, to cancels. my luck hasn't been turning out as good as I intended, however I am just 1 dimension of how I see Falcon with others help we can develop Falcon as a better character as a community (plus it could help with the spam problems on these boards)

so if you have some free time, and are bored check what I have up weekly for testing, eg. "This week Nair" when you could comment about it's approach, usefulness ect. Also if people are unsure if something is discovered they can check here (since they can't use the search engine >_>)

Also If anyone has a request to test something they think may work, or if you have trouble pulling off something and need help I'll edit into this post under (a soon to be) request section AND help section. For the help section just post your question, I'll edit it in here and if someone has an answer just post the answer and i'll update this post with the answer to help you! (same goes with the request section)

as long as the community is involved I will be editing this thread close to daily if I can


Requests!

This Is the section where If you think you may know a new combo or something but don't have access to a wii/brawl, this is the section to request it, solved requests will be highlighted Blue, unsolved are in purple, and ones that are confirmed not possible will be in red, following a description of what happened.

F-Smash to Knee

If at low % you can F-smash your opponent barely off the edge then drop and knee, testing is needed to see if this connects ~ Agidius ~

this doesn't work, it's a really situational set up because you opponent can right away get back to the ledge before you can drop and knee (mainly cause of Fsmash's laggy after lag), or they could DI out of it

Infinites!

Wario Grab Infinite(Mmac)- http://files.filefront.com/ssbbcfwiw.../fileinfo.html

if wario uses his second jump and you grab him before he hits the ground you can repeat the grab release infinitely


Discoveries! (techs)


Falcon Slide

When recovering with a Falcon Dive facing away from the edge of the stage, you can DI back to the stage, and apon landing you slide back a considerable amount

There is a second slide where if raptor boost back to a stage while up a slant the raptor boost will cancel into a really long slide

Falcon Kick Cancel

Not as good as it sounds, This is more useful for Ganon because of his slow running speed but whatever. What you do is Falcon kick about a little bit more then half of battle field to the farthest edge, Falcon should just barely make it over the edge and instantly edgehog

Tippman spike

Very useful for edge gaurding, what you do is Uair backwards that sends opponents at a odd trajectory, away from the stage and downwards. Why you may use this is because Uair has priority and is unexpected

Haduken

The Haduken is one of the two ways Falcon can instantly edgehog, the method called "hugging" doesn't work with C.Falcon because Falcon's too fast. To Haduken you simply run at full steam off a ledge and rotate the control stick a 3 quarters and a half way backwards, If you don't do it fast enough you will fast fall instead, I know I video link which I can edit in later for a better explaination.

Raptor Hugging

If you can't Haduken 100% of the time don't worry because Raptor hugging is a lot easier but a little less effective. First run of a edge at full steam then jam the control stick backwards, until close the the stage then Raptor boost. What should happen is the raptor boost canceling into a instant edgehog. Again i'll edit a video in later

Hyphen Up Smash

When Dashing you can cancel your dashing animation into an up smash, but keep your momentum, until your traction brings your slide to a halt. With Falcon you have a really long Hyphen up smash, I'v punished rollers with this, and also approached with it because it can't be punished badly

Dash Attack Cancel

this AT works like the Hyphen Up Smash but with a dash attack canceled, apparently every character can do it but people have only pulled it off with certain characters like Snake, Falco, and Wario. How you do it is you initiate your dashing attack, then instantly input a up smash command, ways of doing this most commonly are (with a gamecube controller) A + up Z, or C-stick down + C-stick up, or C-stick down + up Z

Dash cancel

The beginning and ending of Falcon's Dash is cancelable into whatever you want, some applications is that for example Martha uses her up B while you are trying to edge guard and it hit's you a fair distance away, what you can do is simply run and dash attack by the time Martha is in her landing lag frames OR you could fox-trot (which is equally as fast, maybe even faster than conventional running) and when near martha cancel the beginning or ending dash (depending if you pass her or are close to her) into a F-smash, that will finish the job!. This application is really useful because you retain your running speed but you can automatically stop ALL your momentum into a F-smash or whatever you please.

YOU MUST RECOVER!

how many times have you raptor boosted off the edge? probably not as much in Brawl then melee but if you raptor off the stage you can Haduken to save yourself and insta-grab the edge of the stage rather then falling to your doom.

Hopefully more soon!!


Show me your moves!!


Jab

ahh The mighty Jab such a great move it has some priority, punishes spotdodgers, Fast, and Strong. In my view I think that the Jab in vital for Falcon, This usually gets off at a MINIMUM 11% but for every split second you opponent doesn't DI away the percent keeps going up, (usually to around 20%+) if you take pauses in between the jabs you can mind games very well, eg. (paused) jabs dash away, cancel your ending dash animation with a raptor boost, ???, Profit.


Discoveries!

well the first week of testing proved to be very useful, as a couple new techniques involving the simple jab have been discovered:

Sliding Jab's of fury: dash>pivot>jab (the timing will need some practice), it uses are that it's a really good approach because the slide covers a great deal of area and the continuous jabs carry the momentum of the slide, however the big thing about it being a reliable approach is that it has PRIORITY, and lots of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYvUZHyY_LQ

IASA frames: the knee of the three hit jab combo actually has IASA frames! if your opponent isn't quick enough to DI out of the 3 hit jab combo properly or can't tech you can EASILY get away with a good 30% by repeating the three hit combo, and if they are DI out of the jab combo don't worry because the jab is cancelable into whatever, so you can right away dash and grab your opponent for even more frustration

Set Up's: we had a nice amount of set up's and baiting uses with the jab this week

1)Jab>Jab>jab>grab>Dthrow> Uair

2)Jab>Jab>Ftilt

3)Jab>Jab>Jab>Falcon Dive (it is possible to pull this off with the infinite, but the opponent must have really bad DI to fall into the infinite>Falcon dive)-30% String min!!

4)Grab>knee>Release>jab>jab>Grab>Repeat infinitely?

Fun Fact!

The jab can clink Pk thunder, yeah it looks like the knee's priority shifted to Falcon's Fists

Priority Rating

11/10- this move has a ridiculous amount of priority, just read the fun fact


Forward Tilt

Forward tilt really had not much to discussion (as expected >_>) it does 10%, has low knockback, not that fast unless tilted upwards, and has a really bad hitbox. All in all the common thought of Ftilt is that it's seriously a bad move, theres not much to this move other than it can be combo'd from to jabs which is kinda useful if your opponent is at high % and you need a quick move to be in a position to gimp a recovery, but still there isn't much to this

Priority Rating

7/10 - one of Falcon's better moves for priority, too bad there's no practical use


Down Tilt

Down tilt I believe is a really underused move nowadays, I know I don't use it too much but after a couple friendlies I started to slip this move into my game just to see if it's effective and MAN is it. Jeez this move works pretty much like Mario's Utilt at zero I combo'd my friends G&W with 2 down tilts then a up tilt then went for a raptor boost to Uair. After a while he caught on to the Uair so I replaced the raptor boost with Falcon kick which still worked really nice. also Dtilt has a surprising amount of range just about same range as Snakes Dtilt which is the height of Falcon

nothing really discovered other then it's crazy setups

guard roll>dtilt>dtilt>Ftilt/Utilt -Kieso's set-up (works well)

Dtilt>Dtilt>Utilt>Raptor boost>Uair - more sexy

or

Dtilt>Dtilt>Utilt>Falcon kick - more reliable -Ayaz's Setups

Priority rating

7/10 - can clink a lot of attacks, but it's hitbox kinda sucks. So the priority is there it's just it's kinda hard to land


Fair (the knee)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=184947

everything you need/want to know about Fair is here, it's nice if it lands but rarely ever does, however a flubbled knee isn't so bad, because it's a nice sexkick that can gimp people with bad recoveries.


Uair, Falcon's golden move

wow I freaking love this attack, it's fast, AC-able, has next to no landing lag if not AC'd, strong, combo-able, K.O-able, has priority, and is the only move that Falcon has that hasn't been nerfed the slightest bit. The only real let down about this move is that it has a kinda realistic hitbox, but that is hardly anything to bring this amazing move down. there are some crazy thing possible with this move, like a up throw to Uair->Uair->Fair (at zero). the great thing about this move is that it makes combo's possible, if your chasing your opponent throw an Uair, if they air dodge it's o.k just Uair again when they get out of their invincibility frames, it works because Uair is so fast. In conclusion there is no other word to express this move than simply "sex", it's seriously that good and I won't be surprised if someone finds something amazing with it, hell I use it reversed to approach MK's, there usually dumbfounded by the fact im attacking so awkwardly, then realize they just took 70% damage.

Priority Rating

8.5/10 - it has a lot of priority, which is advantageous against SOME characters like fox, but people like MK eat this move with a simple Dair.


Utilt, the crotch of Falcon

another epic and amzing attack, it has the reach of Falcon's entire leg, has priority, and has a disjointed hitbox making it Falcon's golden move for spacing. The move is used a lot among the community for a reason, it has "combo-ability" and also kills people at around 110-120ish% (depending on the opponents weight). I like using this move to create some good spacing and also love using it when a opponent is on a platform above me. all in all it could be pretty spammable, but has a pretty lengthy startup, which seem's to be accepted by the Falcon mainers because it punishes spot dodgers easily

Priority Rating

9/10 - can break through the tornado, that's all that needs to be said

Ive never tried the jab as something that would pump up some damage, sounds interesting. Ill try it out.

yeah the Jab is easily one of Falcon's best moves, but try to experiment with it, find new strategies, see if it cancels into a Falcon dive or something

you should add Haduken Hugging to the techs.

Spudnick said:

you should add Haduken Hugging to the techs.

Click to expand...

yeah I kinda made this thread at like 4 in the morning....... I 'll edit A LOT more crap later

Jab's been really lame to me lately. I keep trying to do jab jab grab but it does gentlemen... I know I'm probably pressing grab too fast, but I havn't got jab jab grab as a legitimate combo in training mode so I think that unless they're off the ground they can grab you too (a Fox I played kept grabbing me when I did 2 jabs).

Infinite jabs shouldn't be done if your opponent isn't off the ground, as they will shield in between jabs and grab you, DTilt you, or do a fast smash/other move (Fox's DSmash, Marth's up-B).

Most opponents I've played DI away and hold shield as soon as they see the first 2 jabs, to try to get out of infinite jab as soon as possible. This can be punished sometimes with Falcon Dive, but your opponent may roll away as soon as their shield pops up so you need to do it fast, or you can wait for the roll and punish with Falcon Kick. Also keep in mind that Falcon Dive isn't as fast as a grab, so if your opponent is close enough to grab you it will beat your Falcon Dive. If they don't have a full shield, DTilt and DSmash will usually poke through.

The problem with jab seems to be mostly that pressing any attack too soon after you start jabbing makes it think you want to do another jab, which makes it not seem to legitimately combo into anything. Therefore I've been trying to do SH'd aerials and B moves to try to get around that problem, but they just don't seem to come out fast enough, and Raptor Boost and Falcon Kick don't seem to queue fast enough (it won't do the move if you try to queue it until after the second jab lands). Since none of these seem to actually combo, it seems safer to attempt them after a single jab, as your opponent will most likely not have time to react that quickly (unless you want and expect them to shield).

Some of these things that we wish jab would combo into might work with NAir though.

There's a way to go straight from Gentleman into Single Jab (instead of Jab Infinite) by delaying either Second Jab or Gentleman. I'm not sure if this is commonly known or not, but it's something I just noticed. It might lead to mind games, and since Gentleman moves you forward a bit, you can use it to close in on your opponent.

, = about half-second delay
. = about quarter-second delay

For example:
1. AA, AA
2. A, AAA
3. AA, AA. A

You can probably loop non-Jab-infinite strings this way, but it's probably not worth it since most good players will react in a defensive way that'll probably screw you over. :/

jab cancel alot with falcon

Sometimes I can jab chain an enemy with very fast jab cancels but it requieres perfect coordination, is very hard to perform this

A,A,A,A,A

is interesting but in real battles you cant perform this

Lionman said:

Sometimes I can jab chain an enemy with very fast jab cancels but it requieres perfect coordination, is very hard to perform this

A,A,A,A,A

is interesting but in real battles you cant perform this

Click to expand...

jab combos are great,they always seem to biuld alot of combos

What about a double/triple jab into up tilt or side tilt? I think side might work a bit better since it has the range factor, and you get that fire if its at the tip if im correct?

Utilt is too slow. You're asking to get punished if you try to do it out of a jab.

Do you mean Fsmash? It's also pretty slow, but the pull back it has at the start might solve that.

After jabs I prefer a DTilt to FTilt/UTilt/FSmash because it puts them off the ground, making those attacks safer afterwards because they can't shield at that point. I do FSmash after DTilt a lot, because with the leanback most characters' aerials won't hit you, and if they jump away instead just chase them after the FSmash (dash SH UAir).

Actually if your opponent is a doofus and doesn't DI out if it you can get them into a Falcon Dive fairly easily because Jab pops the enemy up a bit, so it doesn't CANCEL necessarily just a great setup. What I do is press A three times without any pause to initiate a a quick jab, then mash up special until Falcon Dive comes out

If you can get it to hit, your looking (when fresh) at a good 40%, which is amazing and should hit cause let's face it nobody expects a challenge from Falcon

Ayaz18 said:

Actually if your opponent is a doofus and doesn't DI out if it you can get them into a Falcon Dive fairly easily because Jab pops the enemy up a bit, so it doesn't CANCEL necessarily just a great setup. What I do is press A three times without any pause to initiate a a quick jab, then mash up special until Falcon Dive comes out

If you can get it to hit, your looking (when fresh) at a good 40%, which is amazing and should hit cause let's face it nobody expects a challenge from Falcon

Click to expand...

The jabs don't pop up the enemy enough for this to work; it's the knee that does it (or if you jab them while they are already in the air). To get to 40% you have to go through infinite jabs, and if they get back to the ground and shield they can roll away pretty quickly, leaving you to be punished if you do that Falcon Dive. So basically they must be in the air for this to be successful.

Wogrim said:

The jabs don't pop up the enemy enough for this to work; it's the knee that does it (or if you jab them while they are already in the air). To get to 40% you have to go through infinite jabs, and if they get back to the ground and shield they can roll away pretty quickly, leaving you to be punished if you do that Falcon Dive. So basically they must be in the air for this to be successful.

Click to expand...

no you have to initiate the infinite jabs, that's why I said pressing AAA quickly so you start a small set of infinite jabs

When you're landing after doing an aerial you can change the direction you're facing by hitting A and slightly moving the controller stick to one side. This should start up a jab combo immediately (if the aerial autocancels or has very low lag) and it's good if you short hop naired at an opponent who rolled towards your original location. When you land you can immediately go into a jab combo facing his direction while he might be either dashing at you or charging up an attack.

Also I don't know if it's worth adding in, but you can do somewhat of a stutterstepped hyphen upsmash that goes about half to three-quarters of the distance a normal hyphen smash goes. It's situational but good if you opponent is a little too close to pull off a full one.

Do you mean Fsmash? It's also pretty slow, but the pull back it has at the start might solve that.

Click to expand...

no, Ftilt, the longer kick one. Doesnt that have the range to work?

Spudnick said:

When you're landing after doing an aerial you can change the direction you're facing by hitting A and slightly moving the controller stick to one side. This should start up a jab combo immediately (if the aerial autocancels or has very low lag) and it's good if you short hop naired at an opponent who rolled towards your original location. When you land you can immediately go into a jab combo facing his direction while he might be either dashing at you or charging up an attack.

Also I don't know if it's worth adding in, but you can do somewhat of a stutterstepped hyphen upsmash that goes about half to three-quarters of the distance a normal hyphen smash goes. It's situational but good if you opponent is a little too close to pull off a full one.

Click to expand...

good stuff, and yeah anything no matter how big or small should be disscused, because after the Jab's synopsis im going to take all the secrets we have found out together and write them all out

FYI im still not done all the AT yet, be understandable because I have voulenteer hours, work, and a online tourny (just for footage basically). So I won't be up to date until maybe next wek

hmm you should look at this i found, I never used the dash like this.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYvUZHyY_LQ

i have used the dash like this but never dash>jab.i would think dash to jab is useless.

Noodlehead said:

i have used the dash like this but never dash>jab.i would think dash to jab is useless.

Click to expand...

the thing that pops out to me is that if you slide with multi jabs out you can cover big area, but with priority, seriously Falcons Jab has a ridiculous amount of priority, and combining it with a slide can prove to be somewhat useful, but that's my personal opinion

----I made my own thread for this, (that Ayaz took the time to respond to ), but here it is again, on a popular thread: a low % possible KOmbo.----


This only happened to me once, so I don't know if it is repeatable.

On the fall through roof to the right side of the left house.... (wait, what?)


. . . . . . . . . _______ . . |
. . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . . | . v. . .Here
. . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . . |__
__________|________|__________________Drugstore___ ___________________House________


____ ___ _____ ____ _____ ____ ____ ____ _____ ___ ____ ____ _______ ___ ____ ____ __

__________________________________________________ ___________________________
(horrible picture, but meh)

My Captain Falcon maining friend once did an F-Smash to me (standing on the right edge of the ledge, attacking to the right), fell off, and then into a knee. I was playing as Toon Link at the time, probly at low percentages. Expiriment!

... oh, sorry. didn't realize at first that this was a response to a test. I hope that it still fits, though... =|

well the jab can be a good edge guard cus it gets rid of the 2nd jump and it hits people on the edge if u get it right.

make this the guide falcon diserves

p.s. the falcon dive u can reverse direction

I would highly recommend against abusing the multi jab hits, doesnt seem to bring to much benefit. I always only do the first jab to grab. This I find works better since you can hit them when grabbed (at decent percentages) and/or then down throw to uair. If the down throw sends them high then you can pull some mindgames to get in a different kind of hit.

The jab I find is best for setting up throws (usually down) and then working from there.

actually guys i just found out the knee in the jab combo has IASA frames to a jab which you can do over and over again and when your opponent is about to DI out CF can cancel is jab (not knee) and grab them. I was able to do 30% + with this and i did it during a real match up with my friend.

i learn to master the jab cancel combo because when i use it it sounds like a beat or rhythin

Quick question, since I don't want to make a new thread for this:

When you run at someone, and do the jump turn (so your back is facing them) and you pull a knee, does that have practical uses? I was thinking people expect a direct move, so they would spot dodge, then when the come up, your knee is in their back. Let me know if that makes sense.

Also, same thing with gabbing, although there are two ways to do it, one of them gives you a almost instant reversed grab, the other has a stranger grab area, where it doesn't work as often.

Anyone use those? (I was messing around in Training, you never know if you might find something)

Kieso said:

Quick question, since I don't want to make a new thread for this:

When you run at someone, and do the jump turn (so your back is facing them) and you pull a knee, does that have practical uses? I was thinking people expect a direct move, so they would spot dodge, then when the come up, your knee is in their back. Let me know if that makes sense.

Also, same thing with gabbing, although there are two ways to do it, one of them gives you a almost instant reversed grab, the other has a stranger grab area, where it doesn't work as often.

Anyone use those? (I was messing around in Training, you never know if you might find something)

Click to expand...

If you mean RAR a knee, it might work if they spot dodge, but since Falcon's priority is bad people will often just attack you or shield grab, both of which will beat you easily.

For the second thing I assume you mean grabbing, and you're probably doing a pivot grab on one and dashing back the other way on the other. I don't use either, since my approaches are usually NAir or dashing grab if I expect a shield; the rest is bait and punish.

I have an idea, how about RARing an uair? Since the back of the attack reaches lower than the front, you could hit them, and also keep yourself safe from shield grabs.

Beetle Juice said:

actually guys i just found out the knee in the jab combo has IASA frames to a jab which you can do over and over again and when your opponent is about to DI out CF can cancel is jab (not knee) and grab them. I was able to do 30% + with this and i did it during a real match up with my friend.

i learn to master the jab cancel combo because when i use it it sounds like a beat or rhythin

Click to expand...

wow, good stuff i'll try this definitely later

Anyone get the sliding jab working? I cant seem to time it right.

ps. is the multi dash thing any use? like, dash, then right before your sepost to stop you dash again, I cant really find anything since you cant guard at all during the animation

jab cancel combo can also set-up to kill moves

jab-jab-knee-jab-jab-opponent DI out and rolls back for spacing like a idiot-dash up smash.

it looked cool when I did it to my friend (he was using pit spamming arrows and fsmash but i still beat him =] )

Kieso said:

Anyone get the sliding jab working? I cant seem to time it right.

ps. is the multi dash thing any use? like, dash, then right before your sepost to stop you dash again, I cant really find anything since you cant guard at all during the animation

Click to expand...

when you dash you can jam the control stick the other way in order to piviot, however if you keep it help longer than usual but let go before Falcon starts dashing again you'll get a sliding effect, in which you just hold A to start the multi-jabs

also this isn't some stupid crap, I was finding this really useful for this online tourny Im in, because of pit arrow spammers i used this tech to clink their arrows but able to get close to them and start a quick multi-jab into a falcon dive. Try to find more applications to this!

I seriously use the jab almost like a shine...if they're right next to you, don't infinite jab...just hit A, pause briefly, hit A again, rinse...repeat.....

Even when properly DI'd you can trap your opponent in it for 3 or 4 hits. And if they're still in it at that point, then go into the infinite, or a grab>>>aerial, a Down Tilt, even a falcon dive. There's a ton of options out of a jab lock.

I think this slide jab might be the solution to Falcon's approach problem. OK, maybe not the solution, but a big help.

I've been teating the jabs a lot recently and i found a method in which you opponent won't be able to escape the jab cancel combo. I've notice that if you jab and cancel to a grab and not throw him but hit him/her instead, your opponent will appear right next to you and jab cancel while they try to DI out and then repeat the process. It racks up A LOT of damage and can take them to the end of one side of the map to the other.

It's simply amazing

but

there might be a chance that when you grab your opponent he or she might jump up out of your grab, then again Falcon can punish then with up-airs.

Beetle Juice said:

I've been teating the jabs a lot recently and i found a method in which you opponent won't be able to escape the jab cancel combo. I've notice that if you jab and cancel to a grab and not throw him but hit him/her instead, your opponent will appear right next to you and jab cancel while they try to DI out and then repeat the process. It racks up A LOT of damage and can take them to the end of one side of the map to the other.

It's simply amazing

but

there might be a chance that when you grab your opponent he or she might jump up out of your grab, then again Falcon can punish then with up-airs.

Click to expand...

Never tried that. I thought grab release puts them out of jab distance?

no the jab realease actually puts them like in your face kinda position so the jab can reach

Beetle Juice said:

I've been teating the jabs a lot recently and i found a method in which you opponent won't be able to escape the jab cancel combo. I've notice that if you jab and cancel to a grab and not throw him but hit him/her instead, your opponent will appear right next to you and jab cancel while they try to DI out and then repeat the process. It racks up A LOT of damage and can take them to the end of one side of the map to the other.

It's simply amazing

but

there might be a chance that when you grab your opponent he or she might jump up out of your grab, then again Falcon can punish then with up-airs.

Click to expand...

sweet stuff man all this will be added by Sunday, and a new move will be posted up, for any testing.

also there is a request, so if anyone wants to test it go ahead

a large part of my falcon game is jabs. 2 jabs out of shield to dthrow>uair is a staple move for me. it sets up for a lot of things. dthrow>uair>uair>land>jab cancel>dthrow>uair>double jump>sweetspot knee is a chain i've pulled off before. also you can go from infinite jabs to the falcon kick. the other player usually can't roll behind the jabs, so he has to roll backwards. falcon kick will catch them right as they come out of the roll.

i gotta learn that sliding jab thing. that seems like it'd be an awesome approach for my play style. run away from them when they attack you, then slide back with jabs into my jab combos? that would be awesome.