More effective way to space (or spam) *New info*

EDIT: I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier! This is tons easier on stages with angled ground. Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, and many many more. SH off the higher elevation and ffzair to lower ground. Using this will help you double zair so much more easily (Julz). 8%-11% isn't that impressive at first, but it sure pisses off your opponents! 0_0

The point of this isn't entirely for a faster zair (sh zair is already pretty fast). The point of this is to make follow-up attacks into true combos.

Julz (citation) said:

Oho, this actually combos with the rising zair. I've only tested this with the short length fastfall zair at 0% and 100% and it registers as two consecutive hits in training mode. Rising Zair alone could only hit tall characters like falco, zelda or snake but the initial fastfall zair will knock medium height characters like mario into the rising zair range. There's also potential to knock them into the tipper zair but so far I've only done this with the tall characters. However, this combo doesn't work on short characters like metaknight.

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Falcos_feather said:

I agree that she should have the GB on her hand instead of the arm cannon,
think about the new cool throws she would get =)
Her throws could include Charge shots or missiles, like Fox use his blaster..
It would be sweeet animations

Click to expand...

EPIC

Falcos_feather said:

One nice & easy combo is nailing'em with FFzair then just walk a step towards them and up-angled Fsmash while they're stunned. Easy as pie. Doesn't work on higher % though..

FFzair + Dash Attack or FFzair + grab is two of the most common i think.
Try FFzair + Dash (weak hit) then utilt

And i'm sure you've tried FFzair + Charged charge shot =P

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Zair has much more hitstun than that of fair and uair (when canceled on landing) so comboing is much more of a possibility. Zair does have greater knockback than fair and uair (when canceled on landing), so you'll need to follow up with attacks that have range.

Smash_Gigas said:

For those of us with slow fingers, an easier way to FFZair is to
-UP (Tap Jump) + Y (for instant Double-Jump off ground)-->FFZair.
Problems are, though, it uses your Double Jump, and isn't quite as fast so.... [/rimshot].

SHMC --> FFZair is pretty neat looking.

Click to expand...

Not as fast, but still useful. I wonder if it's any faster than a normal SH Zair...

Hive said:

Hey even if timing is off I like to use it at luigi's mansion because if you do it near the poles.... even if it would only have come out short... pole contact will automatically make it a full length zair animation that is capable of hitting.

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There are other stages that can be used for this. There's Brinstar's side platforms. Green Greens' star blocks. SHY GUYS ON YOSHI'S ISLAND. Statues on Castle Siege. Skyworld's gay platforms. THE BALOON IN SMASHVILLE. The leaves on Electroplankton?

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Probably not worth it's own thread, but here goes anyways: Short-hop, fast-fall, zair!

Okay, this is somewhat hard to do. You can't fast fall in the middle of your zair, and you can only fast fall at the peak of your jump. This only leaves a small window of opportunity to use this. Depending on the fall speed of your opponent, you can practically wall-of-pain your foes to the opposite side of the stage with this.

Yes, it is possible to get a full range zair with this. There's like a one frame window or something.

Holding down, jumping then zair won't work.

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With testing, I learned that zair's hitbox looks like this (excluding tipper)
- 0=Samus
- X,x,*=zair

..0...........
..0..XXX....
..0..........

..0............
..0......xXX*
..0............

(yeah, I took into account that Samus is falling while using this)
..0..............x
..0.........***..
..0................
So yeah, Zair has a dead zone as it lingers. Think of it as a very short range projectile (like the short beam from Metroid) with the priority of a disjointed hitbox.

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I put in this extra info for the hell of it. So that it doesn't seem so... empty. Shoot me.

So yeah, shffz. Master it. It's annoying (for your opponent's at least). Thoughts? Complaints?

Oh and, grapple beam on the left arm for ssb4!

I thought this was how people zair'd regularly... Shows you what I know.

Normal is without the fast fall, doing it with the fast fall is.... hard to do consistently.

I've done it a few times. But never consistently. The only way to improve this method is to be able to work in a tipper for when you're at the egde of the stage. Then pressure them with a few homing missles and end with whatever you like.

Can't do it consistently in a real match yet. It keeps cancelling due to me hitting the ground before it hits them.

Yeah it's pretty fun to do. Like all good things, best not to repeat too much or you become too readable.

its helps you get to the ground faster in order to stop someone from rushing in under your zair.

Yes, agreed that the grapple beam should be on the arm without the arm canon.

She shot the Grapple Beam out of her Arm Cannon in Super Metroid.

Orly. I was fooling around with this and....I think it's possible to ISJ with this. Just want you to know. Tell me if I'm right or not.

Yes, it's possible isj, just... hard.

Guys, mess with this in training mode. You can seriously WoP half the cast with this! It just takes practice!

Is this really possible? I can only get it to full size after a short hop when i hit someone before, about halfway the zair. then it would extend to maximum and hit full size because of the hitlag

No, it's definitely possible to get a full length zair, though it's not always necessary. You can try practicing by running off a platform, fastfalling then using zair. Lylat's platforms are lower than the standard, so you can try that. I still can't do it THAT consistently, but I'm practicing

This is nice. I can hit the small characters easily with this.

Been doing this for a while effective against short characters like what Rohins said don't be too predictable with it. Thanks for the hitbox info and on side not in terms of hit box. Been doing stuff with bair hit box looks like it might have hit frames in front of Samus when i hit bair by mistake when playing friend who was in front of my and he went flying in weird direction with properties similar to a bair hit will make thread about it and post vid when I get time to mess around with it more. Have program that lets me analysis frames so gonna do that AR needs to come out for wii though

Whoa Dobs. Write in sentences please. We all go to school for a reason. So far, I'm being predictable with it. But I'm not getting punished. When something works, it's not like you shouldn't do it. Bair technically can hit people in front of you, but you shouldn't bother. The range is horrible, and Samus is no Kirby. Did you say you DO have a program to analyze frames or did you say you need one? We don't have AR, but we have the homebrew channel and tons of hacks.

I have a program that lets me view frames. Oh and I don't always uses periods in forums cause I'm lazy, so I just write in blurbs sometimes sorry The bair hitting in front actually is somewhat useful been able to incorporate into my game as a mindgame. I used AR in melee to get all the hitboxes for Samus and frame data. I wanted to examine the bair close cause from what I can tell looks to have 3 parts of move and hitbox with sweet spot is interesting. Like I've hit a sweet spot bair when i was on top of someone similar to what Jigs hitbox was for rest in melee.

0RLy said:

Whoa Dobs. Write in sentences please. We all go to school for a reason. So far, I'm being predictable with it. But I'm not getting punished. When something works, it's not like you shouldn't do it. Bair technically can hit people in front of you, but you shouldn't bother. The range is horrible, and Samus is no Kirby. Did you say you DO have a program to analyze frames or did you say you need one? We don't have AR, but we have the homebrew channel and tons of hacks.

Click to expand...

what characters are you doing this predictably vs and not getting punished?

Falcon, DK, Peach?, Snake, Charizard, Pit?, Luigi, Yoshi?, Marth?

Yeah... I'm not THAT good with it yet. I can maybe do it 3 or so time before they end up off stage.

Since you'd be auto canceling it faster than usual, would this be a good set up for a Fully Charged Shot?

I'm pretty sure you can, but you have to sh the charge shot, as zair sends them too far vertically.

I've got the timing right so i can perform it repeatadly..
Also I start many of my combos with her Zair!

I aggre that she should have the GB on her hand instead of the arm cannon,
think about the new cool throws she would get =)
Her throws could include Charge shots or missiles, like Fox use his blaster..
It would be sweeet animations

Ö

Dude, I didn't even think of that!

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You received $1,000 for winning this thread!

Falcos_feather said:

I've got the timing right so i can perform it repeatadly..
Also I start many of my combos with her Zair!

I aggre that she should have the GB on her hand instead of the arm cannon,
think about the new cool throws she would get =)
Her throws could include Charge shots or missiles, like Fox use his blaster..
It would be sweeet animations

Ö

Click to expand...

EPIC WIN. They really need to work in more possibilities from Prime-MP3 and move out of the SNES.

Now... am I doing this wrong, or do you have to be significantly close to your opponent for the Fast-Falled Zair to hit?

You're not used to the timing. You could say it's about as hard as SHFFMC in melee. Naw, it's easier than that.... but you get the idea. It IS possible to get a full length zair... or at least an unnoticable length shorter than full length.

Oho, this actually combos with the rising zair. I've only tested this with the short length fastfall zair at 0% and 100% and it registers as two consecutive hits in training mode. Rising Zair alone could only hit tall characters like falco, zelda or snake but the initial fastfall zair will knock medium height characters like mario into the rising zair range. There's also potential to knock them into the tipper zair but so far I've only done this with the tall characters. However, this combo doesn't work on short characters like metaknight.

So, do you think it's worth using?

This is worth using as often as shffmc in melee. Seriously, is there ever a moment where you don't want to attack faster?

Sorry my mistake, was the combo I mentioned (double zair) worth using?

Yeah, the fastfalling part is already awesome, I've been curious as to what combos fastfall zair could lead into.

0RLy said:

Dude, I didn't even think of that!

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You received $1,000 for winning this thread!

Click to expand...

My english isn't that good.
So I don't know if youre making fun of me saying: "I start many combos with zair",
or if you ment the cool new throws?
Maybe all of it..

Julz said:

Sorry my mistake, was the combo I mentioned (double zair) worth using?

Yeah, the fastfalling part is already awesome, I've been curious as to what combos fastfall zair could lead into.

Click to expand...

One nice N easy combo is nailing'em with FFzair then just walk towards them and Fsmash while theyre stunned, easy as pie, Doesn't work on higher % though..

FFzair + Dash or FFzair + grab is two of the most common i think.
Try FFzair + Dash (weak hit) then utilt

And i'm sure you've tried FFzair + Charged charge shot =P

Haha, I was referring to the cool new throws. ^^ But now that you mention it, I WILL make fun of you! :D

For those of us with slow fingers, an easier way to FFZair is to
-UP (Tap Jump) + Y (for instant Double-Jump off ground)-->FFZair.
Problems are, though, it uses your Double Jump, and isn't quite as fast so.... [/rimshot].

Julz said:

Yeah, the fastfalling part is already awesome, I've been curious as to what combos fastfall zair could lead into.

Click to expand...

SHMC --> FFZair is pretty neat looking.

0RLy said:

Haha, I was referring to the cool new throws. ^^ But now that you mention it, I WILL make fun of you! :D

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Thehe! ok, I deserved that for messing up

However! I'm just not satisfied with the looks of her throws..

Few Questions.
Sorry if they could be explained by the illustrations, but I don't wanna bother examining them for too long.

Okay, here goes.

When I fastfall the Zair, I usually get a very tiny, short Zair. (not hitting anyone)
Normal?

Is it possible to get the full length Zair? (Not hitting anyone)

Whenever I do hit someone with the Zair, it extends all the way out.
Normal?

So.... it's not the uber long zair that can poke really fast?

ll Mafia ll said:

Few Questions.
Sorry if they could be explained by the illustrations, but I don't wanna bother examining them for too long.

Okay, here goes.

1. When I fastfall the Zair, I usually get a very tiny, short Zair. (not hitting anyone)
Normal?

2. Is it possible to get the full length Zair? (Not hitting anyone)

3. Whenever I do hit someone with the Zair, it extends all the way out.
Normal?

So.... it's not the uber long zair that can poke really fast?

Click to expand...

1. When you get the timing better you'll perform a perfect FF-zair, try waiting a splitsecond longer before doing the FF so that you won't land to early. OR perform the zair a splitsecond earlier than u usually do!

2. Yes, but it takes a little practice to master. If you're strong willed you'll master it! =)

3. I've never really thought about that ^^

Can you get the big dust cloud from a full length fast fallen zair? or would you lose all your speed in making the zair autocancel later (making a small dust cloud instead)?

I just recently started using the Short hop Zair combo and also using Zair while fast falling...it helps out alot and it also pisses your opponent off (hehe I was the opponent one time, so I know...MIND GAMES!!!!) It also takes off the Lag when your Landing so you can Neutral B or whatever you like right after and recieve no lag in between. So LETS ZAIR SAMUS PLAYERS HEHEHE

that movement isnt very dificult to realize, only need training, and its very useful.
is fastest atack that samus has.

Hmm... Sai, I know you're a new player and all. I'm a veteran and I still haven't mastered this. The way your worded your post made it seem like you're saying you've already mastered it. It's not Sheik DACUS hard, but it's relatively hard.