• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

What is Sonic's worst match up?


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
lol im not discussing a ditto...thats such a silly idea. clearly its even. camp each others kill moves and live up to 200% each stock. then the first person to die can spam ASC which will kill @ 200 and then u can do it all over again.

and sk92 doesnt play "safe" aka really gay and campy as falco. hes the type of falco many of us would absolutely love to play against...he takes risks...attempts flashy things and leaves himself open. the typical falco just presses B. that falco is alot more effective against sonic than the flashy sk92...altho i do love his style. hes the most entertaining falco to watch by far...but i wouldnt base a matchup being close off of him.

sidenote b4 i get the flame: sk92 is a good player. i dont think hes bad in any way shape or form...i am just referring to his playstyle and how it differs from the typical falco.

numbers are for people...who dont main sonic. so if they for some reason say "yo my sonic is good...maybe ill use him in tourney as a secondary or a counterpick...lemme check the sonic boards and see his good matchups" then that person wont have to read 310 pages or every matchup summary. they can see the numbers and decide from there.

i think we should discuss metaknight again...and marth again. cause i hate seeing them as they are right now...especially marth. i think its in his advantadge but nowhere near this 65:35 stuff. ill c if i can get edit: KNOWLEDGABLE :itde marth ppl to write stuff
As disgruntling it is, you can't deny that you might end up having to settle a grand finals set in a Sonic ditto, so it's good to know this information.

I see... such a shame, and here I thought I was actually up there with the big names.

I am sure he would understand, and perhaps actually take your advice the next time he would fight a Sonic, if what you say is true that a more campy/gay Falco does much better against Sonic compared to his normal style.

It's such a shame though that you would have to be insane to use Sonic as a 2ndary in tourneys, seeing as how his matchup ratios are not impressive, and IMHO you either main him and play good with him in tourneys, or you don't. (or at least if you have such a thing as a play to win mindsetm or even just a small dose of it) I don't know one character you could use to back up a main as besides say Donkey Kong Vs. D3 or something stupid like that.

Both matchups have seem to have changed over quite sometime. I am unsure of Marth, but there really is no point in going back because Greenstreet manages oth matchups, and unless 2 things happen, we're better off going over the matchup one of the more common boarders uphold (Greenstreet comes back or Xiivi makes us posses GS' posts.)
 

MalcolmM

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
1,565
Location
League of Legends, New Jersey
its still an accomplishment to do well against sk92 kinzer lol. as i said before i think hes an amazing player. its just that i consider him an anomaly. he is his own matchup discussion. hes not how to beat the everyday falco which is what the matchup discussion should be about. the everyday falco camps...and camps hard.

and if i PERSONALLY end up in a grand finals set...against a sonic player and the player doesnt want to split the money...im going wario. just letting every1 kno. if they split than we can play sonic dittos all day long. but u cant have a matchup discussion on a ditto. especially a sonic ditto.

everything can be punished. there are no safe moves. do what ur opponent cant punish due to either inexperience confusion or player skill over and over again. win. there is nothing else about the matchup.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
In a Sonic ditto, everything is punishable.

F-air, spring, side-B hop on shield - for every move, if the person reads it right, you can reach it.

xD
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
against sonic, always get max charge on your spins. that way if he spins at you too, youll win. unless he full charges too, but you should be able to not take damage from it.

p.s. jab is actually important in this matchup, cus i think you are going to be clanking attacks alot in a sonic ditto.
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
B-air > B-air > B-air.
Just space with B-air and use U-air.
Stale those out and win by priority. Sonic can actually win by priority in this match.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Random Sonic Guy?

Regardless, it could happen.

I'm pretty sure there have been a GFs set between two MK players, right?
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
...

Gah, my head hurts, I don't feel like getting into a heavy debate, so for my sake I'll just assume the same chances of that happeneing are like two Jigglypuff mains getting it off in a SERIOUS match.

It helps to have knowledge, you can't deny, but seriously my head hurts to D much to think extensively ATM. The Sonic player with more knowledge on said ditto matchup will have a better chance, same goes for whoever is more technical.

I'm out, good morning (lol, staying up on holidays are too good).
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
TBH, this isn't a matchups. Matchup doesn't take mindgames into account, and that's basicly all this matchup is based on. How much better are you than your opponent and how can you read/trick them. All of that can not be taken into account for an matchup. Seriously, you can't expect this to be a matchup.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
...

Start DTilt spamming boys, we're done with the ditto matchup, let's move on to some of the ones a lot of us want revised.
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
You guys should talk about how Sonic best approaches against himself, how to stop the other ones, how Sonic can punish commonly used moves etc.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
I brought those up lol.

If they can spring, you can spring first and get an aerial started.

As for approaches, all approaches are punishable, provided you can read when they'll throw their real approach.

x.x;
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
Spindash approach. Provided the other Sonic is Sonic boarder they know SDR approach is ******** and should never be used.
PREPARE YOURSELF, because it WILL be used.
 

iSpiN

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
357
Location
Nashville TN, US
I agree with Malcolm, discussing dittos is silly. And Tenki is right, all you have to do is read. -.-

And I'm still wondering about the Sonic Pikachu matchup myself, needs moar QAC and spinshot.

Also, why don't we have a counterpick thread yet? Or am I blind?
 

iSpiN

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
357
Location
Nashville TN, US
I was discussing Brawl + with increased hitstun, landing canceling, and chasing with Fair. If you do it right you can 0 death your opponents btw.
 

iSpiN

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
357
Location
Nashville TN, US
But ZSS is the best on Brawl +, and if you can't tech Snakes first hit ftilt then that is also an infinite. (Do not play that online, you will get up to 40%-70% before it can be teched :/ )
 

iSpiN

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
357
Location
Nashville TN, US
I'm ADD and I like discussing Brawl + ^^;

Fair and Usmash are very good for Sonic dittos, at least from my experience.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
@iSpiN-you can smash DI or tech out of Snake's f-tilt lock, ZSS's combos can be DI'd out of, and Sonic's only zero to death combo is his jab lock (which is an infintie, lol).

Unless you're playing with some funky, non-standard settings (most people are running beta 3.1 now. beta 4 will probably be out in a week)


/off topic.
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
Sheik - Character Matchup 23


Introduction

Brawls only transvestite fighter.

Behaviour:



Aerially she is a little better to deal with but she still has an advantage.
she can easily solve her killing issues with her down B.

More info guize?

Commonly Used Moves:

Forward tilt- If you have fought a Sheik before, you should know that Sheik has a lock with forward tilt. She can rack up 50% plus with this and follow it out with a up smash/grab. However to get out of it, it's recommend that you smash DI ????

Up smash-This can be done through a forward tilt, sweetspotted up smash hits twice and does 31 damage and can kill at higher percentages.

Chain-Out prioritizes most of Sonic's attacks and simple out ranges him.

If they react to your feints through the spring, roll behind them and punish the lag.

Projectiles go through the chain.
You can Dair through the chain or drop a spring above it.
However if they're under a platform, have perfect chain control and have a lead, you're screwed since the platform protects Sheik for your spring and Dair.

Needles-1 needle will clang with or hit through just about anything we have, and when it clangs, the following needles will hit you. So walking/dashing and shielding the needles would be a safer approach then a spin dash approach.

Jab-It's a 2 frame jab. If it enters the multi-hit state, I recommend that you smash DI out.

How to Win:

Sonic's moves can be too slow in this match up, no joke. Sheik has a large frame advantage of Sonic. However some of her attacks have noticeable cool down lag, so punish out of shield or as soon as possible and as hard as you can.

Due to Sheik's 'Chain control', it's recommended you take her to a place without platforms. With the exceptions of Yoshi's Island and Smashville because of the moving platforms.





With Sheik it is best to take her to places without platforms.
The only place I would ever say could be used and has platforms is Yoshi's Island.

More info guize?

Recommended Stages:

Ban: Battlefield

Counter Pick: Lylat Cruise?

More info guize?

Matchup Summary:

:sonic: :shiek:
40:60
So, more info?
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
So, more info?
She shouldn't be racking up 50% on Sonic. Spring out of her combos. Sheik players like edges... so look to edgehog at he last moment as they attempt to grab on. Her recovery is nothing special making gimps pretty useful for Sonic. Sheik thrives on gimping by chasing and comboing off stage. Sonic does a good job of keeping ALL characters from doing those two things. Her priority is nothing to brag about.
 

Orange_Soda_Man

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
539
Location
Boston
why should we take Sheik to lylat cruise? That stage has 3 platforms too. I don't see a huge difference between them. How about Frigate? the 2nd form has a dip that makes dodging needles very easy.
 

leonbird

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
17
the problem with most sonic players i've faced is that they move straight for the kill with no discretion to waiting for the correct time. patience plays vital when using sonic. fireballs can only project from left to right with the occasional ariel fireballs that fall from left or right. after using the fireballs, mario does have a short lag in between. capitalize on this. it doesnt mean necessarily move in but a simple short hop + dodge and running past him could throw off his game.
 

leonbird

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
17
again, remember that there are shields in the game, dont just dodge. like its mentioned, sheik has a faster/more attack frames but they also have lag. a simple shield up could change the momentum of the game
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
I feel confident doing this write-up, after playing Knee's Falcon with green/blue connection nearly daily...

CAPTAIN FALCON - Character Matchup 22



Introduction
Captain Falcon has been in the Smash Bros. Series right from the start. Always being a decent character, built for combos, he'd receive decent credit. In Brawl, however, he has been nerfed on some aspects. Hitstun was reduced, making Falcon less of a combo machine, thus reducing his effectiveness. His awesome finisher, the Knee of Justice, has also been nerfed. It now has a much smaller box of time for a sweetspot.

Behaviour:
Falcon is quite the aggresive character. It depends on the players style in this matchup wether he approaches or not. It's basicly a camp fast. You can keep camping. Another thing worth noting: Both are speed characters and rely a lot on punishment. Falcon kills earlier than Sonic and has more priority, however, Sonic has the tools to gimp and punish well. Falcon is much more dominant in the air than on the ground.

Commonly Used Moves:
Jab: Falcon jab is sexsauce, he can hold A and spam it over 9000 times a second. It also has a good priority. Falcons jab is about 50% of his ground game. He has tons of followups with single/double jabs. He can grab, repeat jabs, finish the jabs or up-B to punish a shielder after jabbing.

U-tilt: Falcons U-tilt is another one of his amazing ground moves. He can spam it. It's got IASA frames and WAY too good priority/range on it. Can kill. Falcon can sort of safely spam this move when you are hanging on the ledge.

U-air: This is how Falcon becomes a winrar. It can combo at low %, kill at higher %, cancels out a spring you drop, be AC'd and more more more cool stuff. A very good move. Also beats out our D-air.

D-air: This isn't very effective in this matchup, since it won't spike up to 50% or so, where we can just spring back. This should only hit you when coming out of a Spring, and even then you should airdodge/U-air it.

B-air: An amazing Falcon aerial, can be SHFF without lag. Weak hitbox leads to followups, strong hitbox kills. B-air your opponent with awesome spacing.

F-air: The Knee. Nerfed from melee, but still should be feared. You think you'll never get hit, but oh, play a good Falcon and see yourself getting Knee'd once every stock. This isn't used as an approach anymore, but more as a punisher. Most obvious to punish Sonic would be laggy F-airs, D-airs or airdodges. This is totally gonna kill you.

D-smash: A good, quick move that should never be forgotten. It punishes rolls amazingly well. Near the ledge it covers getup, roll and jump. This should be shielded and then grabbed.

F-smash: Another good killer, however has a lot of cooldown to it. Shield it and dashgrab in. This move can also be stutterstepped.

Grab: Falcon has an (above) average grab game. Decent pummels and throws. D-throw leads into stuff if you don't pay attention. Airdodge after being D-thrown.

How to Win:
In this match you should by no means play aggresively. Instead, play safe, leave no openings and don't get punished. Gimping Falcon is no easy task, as his up-B grabs you out of your attacks. Space well. If you get close you get jabbed, which can do easily 15-20%. Don't be afraid to shield, his moves don't take away an awesome amount of shield, except F-smash. Try to stay grounded here. Don't Spindash more than necessary, Falcons jab clanks, after which he can do another jab. In the air your main moves should be U-air and B-air. Make sure you get down to the ground ASAP and airdodge frequently.

Don't be predictable with your recovery. Switch up between normal jumps, high Springs, side-B recovery. Also, don't go swinging your kill moves around, you'll want your moves fresh every chance you get. Play to rack up damage. Sonics F-air is a decent move, as it goes over Jab. Watch out for Falcon Kick ledge cancel stuff. However, only a few Falcons can actually implement it (LIKE SPINSHOT). If Falcon has some prediction, you might just get hit by a Falcon Punch.

Grab Falcon a lot, throw him around. U-throw > Spring > U-air is always decent, but DI messes it up. Can kill at 100%. Don't pummel, throw it out immedeatly.

Recommended Stages:

Ban Battlefield, Falcon seriously get an advantage from the platforms
Counterpick Final Destination, the lack of platforms give you the oppurtunity to abuse the fact that you are faster than the 2nd fastest in the game.

Matchup Summary:

:sonic: 55:45 :falcon:
___________________________________________________

We didn't have a lot of Falcon input here, so I based some of this from own expierence.

Chis, you can copy paste this, as long as you give me credit.
 

MalcolmM

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
1,565
Location
League of Legends, New Jersey
shiek is even maybe in sonics favor. her kill moves are amazingly obvious and alot harder to hit than ours. her dsmash has amazing amounts of cooldown and is nowhere near the beast it used to be in melee. her upsmash is an amazing finisher this time around but the move has an enormous cooldown. assuming they were switching between the 2 i would say 50:50 but just shiek is 55:45 sonics favor. and u can get past the chain on BF if they r under a platform. run in perfect shield and roll...then u can grab from there. i did it to tristian_win @ CoT4. altho the chain is very annoying and difficult to get past...aside from me just loving to be an aggressive player...there was no real reason for me to approach @ all. assuming both players are patient the chain just presents a stalemate moment...and nothing else.
 

OFY

Sonic main since 08'
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
1,090
Location
Debug Menu
shiek is even maybe in sonics favor. her kill moves are amazingly obvious and alot harder to hit than ours. her dsmash has amazing amounts of cooldown and is nowhere near the beast it used to be in melee. her upsmash is an amazing finisher this time around but the move has an enormous cooldown. assuming they were switching between the 2 i would say 50:50 but just shiek is 55:45 sonics favor. and u can get past the chain on BF if they r under a platform. run in perfect shield and roll...then u can grab from there. i did it to tristian_win @ CoT4. altho the chain is very annoying and difficult to get past...aside from me just loving to be an aggressive player...there was no real reason for me to approach @ all. assuming both players are patient the chain just presents a stalemate moment...and nothing else.
Assume the Shiek player incorporates DAC Up smash (boosted smash), which is possible with shiek but very hard (probably the hardest) of all to do. And they use that broken hitbox thing that incorporates any of Shiek's moves into the hitbox of the chain?

A PRO shiek player should be able to do both of these and alone show favor for Shiek in this matchup.
 

MalcolmM

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
1,565
Location
League of Legends, New Jersey
a pro shiek player as in...who? button inputs dont make u a pro. and no matter what they do with the chain...there is no reason for u to run into it unless they have the % lead and its last minute.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Spring ruins tethers.

I would make a slight mention of that in your write-up Chis just in case the Sheik players are more Tether-recovery happy.

Of course if they are any good they will switch it up, but like I said Spring is too good.

Also Leo we will go over the matchup with Mario sometime, but right now our main focus is on other things (like what exactly?).

Personally the matchup is even, and a tourney-going Mario here in Vegas even agrees with me that the matchup is even, I don't know where that extra 5 points leaning into Mario's favor is coming from.

Sheik's Down-B should also be a commonly used move, seeing as how it solves her killing problem.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Are you kidding me, or is that what decided the matchup ratio when it was being discussed?

...Dear God, don't tell me that's YOUR opinion...?!
 
Top Bottom