Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

Browny · Jun 30, 2009

So I tried to play this matchup (both ways) vs my brother tonight...

Only conclusion I can come up with is playing the same person you play very often brings all matchups close to even

I guess other people just cant adapt quick enough in the matchup :/

Umby · Jun 30, 2009

Kuraudo said:
You need to play against a Marth that's aggressive with perfect spacing. Defensive ones are easier for me to beat because when you're defending? Defensive Marths are giving Sonics air to breath, and when you can breath, you survive for longer to win the match-up. The defensive ones aren't so hard and Dancing Blade isn't so tough. Sonic can survive a few slashes from the Dancing Blade as he shields. And Marths like to do a couple of slashes without completing it, and keep the Dancing Blade going to eat away at the shield. The second that there's an opening run away from either a Dolphin Slash, more Dancing Blade, or a Shield Breaker resulting in the loss of your stock.

Believe me. Marth has so many options against Sonic. It's ****ing HARD.

If I'm jumping the gun with assumptions here, then I'm sorry, but maybe you find aggressive Marths easy and predictable because you don't play too many Marths? Or at least, you don't play too many good Marths that know the Sonic match-up?

I play vs. Marth a LOT and know the match-up. But for the love of god, it still doesn't help. x_x;

Defensive Marth > Aggressive Marth not just vs Sonic, but in general. Aggressive Marth is susceptible to a lot of traps, even when spacing correctly. However, a more defensive style of play offers more stage control so long as Marth inches forward. Marth is all about setting traps, which he can't always do if he's trying to rush the opponent down.

Lucario.

Is hard to land a kill move on.

DLoRd333 · Jul 1, 2009

I think another good way to gimp Lucario is to D throw him off the edge, and then FF f-air him offstage. That's just one of your gimp options though.

I also notice that ASC or side B aren't quite as useful because he can see them coming and punish them easier. So its good to use them more to punish his ground attack's lag. For example bait him into doing a F tilt/d tilt or standard AAA, SH backward->ASC quickly and it should be rather effective. Just be careful and don't do that if he does a U tilt instead. Running shield grabs are good against utilts, in fact its useful against most of his ground attacks.

If the lucario starts abusing SH dairs, then maybe you could try and hit him with a Bair or Fair from the sides, where the Dair's Hit box doesn't reach. Uair could work too, but like Kojin said it would take proper spacing.

Also, what are some good counter pick stages against Lucario? Particularly those that make it easiest to gimp, I would say FD but then again he has more space to camp.

On a side note, I doubt the match up could be anything worse than 65:35 in luc's favor, it seems more rational that it is a within the 65:35-60:40 range.

JayBee · Jul 1, 2009

if you block a dair from lucario, someone test if an Oos upair of fair is useful to counter it. I've also entertained the possibility of baiting dairs, only to upB through them, then non cancelled dair (semi spike) as punishment. discuss.

I think we need to see if our Oos options are effective enough against lucario's air and ground options, like fair and upair. or at least confirm it for the purpose of this discussion.

da K.I.D. · Jul 1, 2009

wow, with all the options laid in front of me, picking sonics hardest match is really difficult

PikaPika! · Jul 1, 2009

Why isn't pikapika! a choice?

Camalange · Jul 1, 2009

No ROB? lol

I swear if Marth wins this poll I'm never returning to this thread or any other MU thread.

JMan8891 · Jul 1, 2009

I voted Marth.... xD

Camalange · Jul 1, 2009

JMan8891 said:
I voted Marth.... xD

asdklfjadsklj

kk

Polls not over yet...not over yet...

Terios the Hedgehog · Jul 1, 2009

I can't decide. Oli's been easier than I used to see him. and I can't tell if Peach might be it because the only Peach I've ever had trouble with was Rick's and it was laggy *** wifi. GaW isn't THAT hard. I find it a fun matchup cause they always freak out when playing a good Sonic but I chalk that up to MU inexperience. Wario's not really a huge problem but I've never faced a REALLY good one. Never had a huge problem with Lucario and..... I kinda wanna vote Marth just to piss off Cammy.

Even if he's the only other Sonic who thinks it's 6:4.

JMan8891 · Jul 1, 2009

Terios the Hedgehog said:
I kinda wanna vote Marth just to piss off Cammy.

Even if he's the only other Sonic who thinks it's 6:4.

Do it, xD

I did, lol <3 u Cam!!!

Camalange · Jul 1, 2009

;_;

<3

MarKO X · Jul 3, 2009

The Sonic-Lucario matchup of the present is about 6:4
The Sonic-Lucario matchup of the future is definitely 9:1

And since I'm so future that I'm not good at this game yet, I chose Lucario. Trust me, if Lucario's ever figure our the secret to truly ****** Sonic, you will learn to CP.

Kuraudo · Jul 3, 2009

My vote's gone to Marthy Marth and his long sword simply because I almost had nightmares of an epic Marth (KillLock, local with me) and his constant rocking of me.

Marth. Pain in my ***!!!

Browny · Jul 3, 2009

cross between lucario and marth for me haha

Marth, from my Sonic point of view (in the matchup...)
but Lucario from my lucario point of view

I voted Lucario anyway... simply because theres so few people who actually main him and getting experience vs a good Lucario main is rare, unlike Marth... Everyone uses him (at least thats the case in Australia >_>)

Umby · Jul 3, 2009

I can't decide, so I'm just going to offer my opinions.

Marth - Marth is not Sonic's hardest match up. Period. It's true he's really tough, as many Sonics are used to seeing the one-note style of SH Double Fair, and don't understand the kind of options Marth's FH brings to the table in higher play. That just means most of us don't know the matchup as well as we thought we did. I will say that I believe he is tougher to handle than MK though. Yes, I said it.

Wario - Strong candidate. Bite wrecks SDRs like nothing. That means Sonic has to rely on his natural mobility. Strong mobility in the air > good mobility on the ground. Wario makes it very hard for Sonic to defend, a true bane since Sonic is bent on trying to apply pressure to the opponent, or at least occasionally trying to land camp when he needs to find an opening.

Game & Watch - G&W is such a dumb character. Aside from the fact that he indeed does have a MU advantage over Sonic, being comfortable while fighting him is really more of a matter of how to deal with his moves while still being able to counter him from a defensive position. Chances are you'll just run into his moves if you try to rush him at every opportunity, which is unfortunately what a number of Sonics are probably doing.

Lucario - The only real problem here is killing. Next.

Olimar - I'd be biased and say that Olimar is the most likely to be Sonic's true hardest matchup, but it could just all be a test of patience. The same logic in countering from a defensive position applies here, it's just that Sonic also has to deal with a ******** grab and dumb smash range as well. At the very least, Sonic makes non-Purple Pikmin throw useless.

Peach - Test of patience. It only looks bad when you run into/get shield poked by floating dair consistently. Rough MU, but not the toughest.

Tbh, I don't give a fuck what you all say. I honestly believe Luigi should be in the running. Nair cuts through everything ffs.

Camalange · Jul 3, 2009

Teh Umby said:
I can't decide, so I'm just going to offer my opinions.

Marth - Marth is not Sonic's hardest match up. Period. It's true he's really tough, as many Sonics are used to seeing the one-note style of SH Double Fair, and don't understand the kind of options Marth's FH brings to the table in higher play. That just means most of us don't know the matchup as well as we thought we did. I will say that I believe he is tougher to handle than MK though. Yes, I said it.

yaaaaaaaaay

Sagen du Smash · Jul 3, 2009

Why is MK not on the Sonic's worst matchup poll? I know G&W is harder, but MK is one of the harder Sonic matchups.

Sagen du Smash · Jul 3, 2009

Pikachu should be on that list btw...

MarKO X · Jul 3, 2009

MK is not one of the harder Sonic matchups... at least, that's the general consensus.

Orange_Soda_Man · Jul 4, 2009

Woah. 9-1 Lucario!?? Did I miss something?

Umby · Jul 4, 2009

Sagen du Smash said:
Pikachu should be on that list btw...

No.

Just...

No.

MarKO X · Jul 4, 2009

Orange_Soda_Man said:
Woah. 9-1 Lucario!?? Did I miss something?

No, you didn't.
but there is a legit silly silly easy way for lucarios to beat sonics. Only maybe 3 ppl know it though. One is me, one doesn't play Lucario, and one plays Lucario but doesn't go to tourneys.

Thus, it's best i not say anything. I might've said too much.

Browny · Jul 4, 2009

Its true...

we recently found out that lucario has a dtilt

JMan8891 · Jul 4, 2009

Wtf???

Im legit confused as to if it jokes, or for cereal

MalcolmM · Jul 5, 2009

MarKO X said:
The Sonic-Lucario matchup of the present is about 6:4
The Sonic-Lucario matchup of the future is definitely 9:1

And since I'm so future that I'm not good at this game yet, I chose Lucario. Trust me, if Lucario's ever figure our the secret to truly ****** Sonic, you will learn to CP.

This man knows the truth.

ROOOOY! · Jul 5, 2009

I voted G&W, because their ridiculously long ranged aerials I have trouble punishing. They can just retreat them and it's pretty hard to get close.

In my opinion; it's definately not Marth, Olimar or Peach. Peach I don't really have any experience with, but from an outside view I can't see what's making her harder than someone like Lucario or G&W. Olimar is just strange. You just have to play really carefully until you see an opening and then just **** him until he calls the YMCA. He has the tools to keep you out way too well at mid range though, so it's still pretty hard.

Marth is not hard however. Get a percentage/stock lead, and camp. An offensive Marth is so linear it's not hard to realise what they're going to do and so you can react to it. Oh noes, is he going to SH fair me, or SH nair me?! D;
A defensive Marth can eat a **** though. I swear to god that Dancing Blade is the only thing putting it solidly in Marth's advantage. **** that move right in the ***. The amount of times I've been caught in that thing..

Lucario and Wario I know are pretty hard, but don't really have enough experience against them to say ****.

Umby · Jul 5, 2009

Looking at this discussion, I don't think any of us know the matchups well enough to accurately make a decision on "worst matchup."

People are saying Marth just because he's really tough.

People say Lucario, most likely because it's really hard to land a kill move on him.

No one is saying Wario even though it was unanimously agreed at one point that he was Sonic counter #1.

I've been saying Luigi since the beginning of time.

Everyone is biased and neglects Meta Knight.

Olimar is being disregarded because you just have to "be patient."

Someone randomly comes in and suggests Pikachu.

No one knows what they're talking about.

Let's get these analysis/guides going before we discuss crap like this.

TwinkleToes · Jul 5, 2009

Gumby, I don't wanna hear that from you, you TRAITOR.

So, guys, Yoshi for hardest match-up? I think there's something to this. I had a hard time beating a Yoshi once.

MarKO X · Jul 5, 2009

Yoshi is due to matchup in experience imo. I think its an even, solid, fun matchup. Yoshi isn't as gimpable as you think, and if yoshi doesn't afraid of your spindashes, prepare to get eaten.

With Lucario, dtilt is the least of your problems. In the current metagame, landing a kill move on Lucario requires a li'l work, but that too, is the least of your problems if Lucario's figure out the secret.

shinhed-echi · Jul 5, 2009

To me PIKACHU is the worst matchup to ANY character.
There are things that good DI just isn't enough against.. and HE is one of them.

But I voted Lucario because I just utterly fail at approaching him, as opposed to other characters.

My strategy against Mr.G&W is staying on the ground as much as possible, NEVER attack from air to ground. Poke a lot with Ftilt (works wonders), and grab a lot too.

I haven't faced too many Warios, but most of them follow a similar D-shaped pattern when approaching you with Dair. So I'd just wait till their Dair retreat reaches the ground and grab him, of annoy him with dash-attack. A well placed DAIR outside the edge to knock them off their bikes, followed by a ledgegrab, and he's all yours.

aeghrur · Jul 5, 2009

MarKO X said:
Yoshi is due to matchup in experience imo. I think its an even, solid, fun matchup. Yoshi isn't as gimpable as you think, and if yoshi doesn't afraid of your spindashes, prepare to get eaten.

With Lucario, dtilt is the least of your problems. In the current metagame, landing a kill move on Lucario requires a li'l work, but that too, is the least of your problems if Lucario's figure out the secret.

MarKO, it doesn't work.
We've had one of our Lucarios verify this against one of our Sonics offline.

Chis · Jul 5, 2009

What doesn't work. No more riddles please.

Orange_Soda_Man · Jul 5, 2009

Chis said:
What doesn't work. No more riddles please.

This. Also, there's no such thing as saying too much because the metagame's development is inevitable.

Camalange · Jul 5, 2009

shinhed-echi said:
To me PIKACHU is the worst matchup to ANY character.
There are things that good DI just isn't enough against.. and HE is one of them.

I don't like this thread.

Why isn't ROB an option? If Peach made it so should ROB.

Joshkip · Jul 5, 2009

i am torn between g&w and lucario :/

~TBS~ · Jul 5, 2009

this is killing me. Man, to me its either Marth, G&W, Wario, or MK arguably.

Grah, Marth is just...ugh.
G&W for the reasons Umby stated.
Wario stays in the air and is mad hard to punish.
MK is MK. nuff said.

Kupo Rose · Jul 5, 2009

Glad I wasn't alone thinking Luigi is bad for Sonic, his movement is just sooooo slipperly and his ariel attacks are god annoying to surpass. His Fsmash is ridiculous as well >.>

But since hes not in the poll, I'd give G&W the prize of Sonic's hard match up, (I looked at the match up and it ain't finished yet I presume? read through some of the discussions though) I can't approach him at all without letting that turtle of his bite me multiple times. His Dtilt makes me feel stupid by completely stoppin my SpinDash approaches as well..

Lucario, I hate him. He forces me to do so many SpinDashShieldCancels. I have to mindgame him til hes a headless chicken or Im not gonna get close to start racking up damage on him.

Marth is just.. ~~boring~~ annoying... I always find myself having to shield>grab against him =/ or spam Fair/Bair if he's not using his.

Peach, I just run away when they float towards me or again just shield>grab them if they float too low. I dont find her too troublesome apart from her turnips or float follow ups.

Wario/MK... They just abuse their invincibility frames and spam their over priortized moves...

Olimar, I'm gonna be biased cos I ~~3 stocked~~ won against him multipe times today :dizzy:

....Yeah... useless post

Camalange · Jul 5, 2009

SoniKupo said:
His Dtilt makes me feel stupid by completely stoppin my SpinDash approaches as well..

Rawr.
Spindash is not a direct approach.

GaWs Dtilt is still pretty gay though.

Kupo Rose · Jul 5, 2009

Camalange said:
Rawr.
Spindash is not a direct approach.

GaWs Dtilt is still pretty gay though.

lol yeah I guess your right, I need to run more :laugh:

EDIT: oh and thanks for the welcome from the other thread. (and to Chis & ROOOY too!)

Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

What is Sonic's worst match up?

Marth

Wario

Game & Watch

Lucario

Olimar

Peach

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Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

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Halfrican-American

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Smash Champion

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Smash Hater

Smash Master

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Smash Journeyman

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Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Hater

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Smash Lord

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Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Finally a legend

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It's what my cutie mark is telling me ♫

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