Pikmin Vs. The World, A Guide on Camping with Olimar (Last update-11/5)

II. The Basics for Beginners
III. Pikmin Ordering Using the Whistle
IV. Some Pikmin Specific Throwing Strategies
V. The real reasons we can't camp the whole match
VI. Following up Your Pikmin Throws
VII. To pluck or not to pluck
VIII. Pikmin Throw vs. Other Characters' Projectiles
IX. Troubleshooting
X. Credits and Other










II. The Basics for Beginners:
Before we begin, you need to know everything about each individual pikmin. Each of the five have their own properties and characteristics that help Olimar in specific ways. After reading the "Everything You Need to Know About Pikmin"(Link) thread by Kyas, you will/should understand the different advantages each pikmin have over the others. I'll reiterate the basics.



Element- Fire


Yellow Pikmin
Element- Electric
Flight Path- High arc
Distance covered- Short

Purple Pikmin



III. Pikmin Ordering Using the Whistle:

dmauro said:

Your pikmin will queue up in this order:
red, yellow, blue, white, purple. We'll call this the hierarchy.
Like colors will queue together if they can* and the first time you whistle in a match, your red pikmin will jump to the front of the line with the rest following in order of the hierarchy. If you whistle again and again the pikmin will cycle through in the order listed above (skipping missing pikmin of course).​

Once you start attacking with your pikmin, whether it's a pikmin toss or even just a smash, they will be out of order (even if they didn't get mixed up!) so that when you whistle again, the color of the second pikmin in line won't be the ones called to the front of the line, instead the color called to the front will be whichever color pikmin follows after the last one that was called to the front the last time you whistled (but if that color pikmin is currently unavailable it will skip to the color after). We'll refer to this as your whistle order. Your whistle order will start at red at the start of the match and will be constant until you whistle again (no matter what you do with you pikmin in the meantime).​

So here's a quick example:
At the start of a match, you pluck your pikmin and let's say you come up with this queue: red, white , blue, purple, red, purple.
Now your whistle order starts at red, so no matter how you mix up those pikmin, the first time you whistle, your queue should* look like this:
red, red, blue, white, purple, purple.​

After this whistle your whistle order would normally go to yellow since that's next in the pikmin hierarchy, but you don't currently have any, so instead your whistle order would jump to blue and your blue pikmin would go in front:
blue, white, purple, purple, red, red (notice how the hierarchy wraps around).​

Now, again, you can do whatever you want with these pikmin to mix them up, but the next time you whistle if you have a white pikmin (even if your old one died and you plucked a new one) your whistle order will jump to white since it comes after blue in the hierarchy.​

Click to expand...

IV. Some Pikmin Specific Throwing Strategies/Tricks:

General:
-Pikmin will stop Ike's sideb (both latched or just gets in the way) The pikmin will die, but he'll be in his special recovery state, and if he's offstage he'll die.
Red:
-When either Toon Link or Link has a bomb in his hand, and he's got a pikmin latches to himself, he'll explode if he throws it. If it's a red pikmin it won't die.
Yellow:
-Yellow pikmin will absorb Ness' upb recovery. If he's offstage and you think he'll use upb, just throw a pikmin onto him, (any pikmin will do, but yellows won't die) and he'll die.
Blue: n/a
White:
-The white pikmin go the furthest horizontally. We all know that. What most people seemingly forget is that they have awful vertical distance. For this reason, try to throw them at the descent of your shorthop. This way, they won't go over your opponent's head, they won't fly offstage, and they'll be more likely to hit your opponent.
Purple:
-When you're camping against an opponent that needs to jump to make his projectile more efficient(such as falco's lasers), try to throw purples just above your opponent as you rise. You'll have an easier time landing the pikmin you throw on your decent. Reason being, the purple pikmin pressures them to stay on the ground, making them an easier target.

-Purple pikmin have this strange aura surrounding them where nobody notices when you throw them, XD. Don't be hesitant to throw them at close opponents. They space VERY well, as they have a near set knockback.

-Throw your purples at recovering enemies! It works wonders.

-"They are awesome for approaching. I'll generally toss one, and if the opponent shields it then I'll grab, and if they roll towards me or away from me I'll pivot grab of dash grab. having two purple pikmin is awesome because then you can toss both and it makes running in for a grab that much easier."
-Richbrown

V. The real reasons Olimar can't camp the entire match:

"Why bother?", you may ask. "They rack damage well, Olimar is speedy enough to run and throw- while dodging attacks because he's short, and they can be hard to kill sometimes too. All the reason to continue right?"

Wrong. Only against people that don't really know how to handle Olimar can you just camp the whole match. You have to have a patient, but offensive mindset.

1.) When your opponent attacks pikmin, they are restoring the attacks that they didn't use to attack the pikmin. Notice I said "attack" and not "kill". They don't have to be killed for diminishing returns (DR) to come into play. Ex. Zelda can Dtilt your fatties all day to restore her kills moves. This is bad!

2.) Time restraints- If you are behind in the match and your opponent recognizes it, he can just keep killing the pikmin you throw at him, there's no reason for him to approach you. In this case, you need to approach.

3.) Your opponent is above kill percentage- WHY ARE YOU THROWING PIKMIN? GET THE KILL. They'll just be doing number 1 if you don't go for the kill.

There are a couple big exceptions though.

1.) For some characters, it's very hard to get the pikmin off. A couple include Ganondorf, DDD and Rob. Ganondorf and DDD just don't have good enough attack speed to keep up with the pikmin. Therefore, they get hurt and can't continue to afford to attack the pikmin. Rob has too many places for the pikmin to latch onto for him to be able to kill them efficiently. (without taking too much damage)

2.) If you've got more than just one or two purple pikmin, they can pressure your opponent into approaching even better than they could if you didn't have the purples. It's a hitbox with knockback. Your opponent has to either dodge or shield the pikmin rather than just short hop nairs and other attacks to knock the pikmin off. It's just harder to deal with.

3.) Each pikmin you latch onto your opponent will restore your attacks. If one or more of the attacks that you usually use to kill is diminished, then you can throw your pikmin until these attacks are back to normal.

VI. Following up Your Pikmin Throws:

Now you know that you can't camp the entire match if your opponent knows how to deal with the pikmin.

There's multiple ways to follow up your pikmin throws. It all depends on the situation; if they're attacking the pikmin or if they're attacking you.

If they're attacking the pikmin, you have to assume that they know you're coming when you approach. If you run in for the grab, be aware that you can miss, and they could punish you for it. Be safe and space well. They could easily spotdodge or short hop over the grab attempt and attack, so don't be too predictable in your approaches

Here's some followup options you should integrate into your game instead of grabbing all the time:

-DPC-ed(dash pivot cancel) fsmashes
-SHfair(short hop f-air)->fsmash
-Purple throws
-dash canceling by shielding->spaced attack

VII. To pluck or not to pluck:
You may be one of those people that can never seem to find a time or place to pluck. You may tend to pluck your pikmin when you've got just one or two, or maybe after a dsmash and you realize that only one pikmin came out. These are not the times to pluck! Simply put, you should pluck whenever you're not doing anything at the moment, or you don't really have anything better you could be doing. Of course, if you ever have just one pikmin, your main focus should be to get more. Over time, it will become second nature to pluck in these situations. I'll name some that come to mind.

-After respawn. You're invincible. It's the perfect opportunity. The pikmin are not invincible though, so your opponent can kill them as you're plucking. Something I like to do often is use the interruptible frames of pikmin pluck (link) to guard myself with an fsmash. I do this fend off anyone that may think about killing the pikmin. This trick has been under the radar for some time though, so use it while you can!

-After any smash attack at high percents. Your opponent is sent very high into the air. What should you do until they get within range for another attack? You pluck. Simple.

-During recoveries by your opponents. If you haven’t noticed, Olimar’s edgeguarding is very risky. If you mess up, you may end up killing yourself. If you are down in pikmin, plucking is most likely the better option over edgeguarding,* unless you’re playing against a character that should be pretty easy to spike, such as Ganondorf.

-During your opponent's stall tactics. This is a given, but I’ll list it anyways. Some characters have stall tactics that take some time to set up or may just be hard to get through. You should pluck before you do anything else.*^2

-During very laggy attacks by your opponent. Have you ever seen an fsmash spam happy Ike nooblet? Just pluck while he’s lifting his sword. You’ll still have time to shield and grab. Some of the attacks that you can pluck during the pre or afterlag of the attack include Captain Falcon’s punch, Sheik’s chain, Snake’s fsmash, PT and Sheik/Zelda’s transformation (though charging an attack would be wiser), Wario’s waft, and some others.

*- Some people disagree with me here. They like to take the risk of edgeguarding with Olimar because it can be both unpredictable, and if you do it right, worth it. I try to be more patient and safe though.

*^2- Most tournaments ban tactics that are used to stall the game. Ask a ref or the tournament host before your matches about what is considered stalling.


VIII. Pikmin Throw vs. Other Characters' Projectiles:

(The main part of this guide where I need your input)
I'll give a difficulty level to each character's projectile game vs. your pikmin overall. Of course, some character's don't have projectiles, so obviously, I won't rate them. I'll treat Bowser's fire and Mr. Game and Watch's bacon as projectiles.





Bowser
-Projectile: Fire

-Summary: Obviously, you outcamp Bowser. So he has to approach you. Spaced fire is one of his good approaches, and can be classified as a projectile by some definitions, so I'm including it in this guide.

• Notes:
-reds go through the fire= win-win.
-other pikmin will get stopped in their tracks and will get burnt. (killed)
-fire outranges your smashes and grabs.
-DO NOT camp the edge of the stage. Reason: If he catches you in the fire, it forces you off the stage, and he aims the fire downwards it can be difficult to recover. The pikmin will freak out and fall off...

• Facing it head on: you should have two different mindsets when it comes to dealing with the fire: when he's grounded, (on the ground) and when he's still in the air.

-Grounded:
If he's already grounded, don't face it head on. You can't beat it through smashes, grabs, SHfairs, or anything else from the front. Just pluck some pikmin and wait for him to end it. If possible, punish it. If your opponent doesn't end the fire quickly enough, you can jump over him and try to hit him from above or behind; in this situation, treat the fire just as you would Sheik's chain.

-Falling:
There's a couple things you can do to punish the fire if you can predict it coming.
-Roll behind him if there's room.
-If you've got a red pikmin out, you can charge an fsmash (or if you're close enough and upsmash) and release it just before the fire reaches you. (It will go through the fire)
-run back or roll back. (get away from the fire and pluck or something)

-Followups: It's too laggy for him to followup.
-Difficulty: 0

Captain Falcon
-No projectile.

-Summary: He's pretty fast, so I advise throwing your pikmin without SHing because if he catches you in the air while you're throwing your pikmin, you'll probably get punished. Purples are good at interrupting his fast approach game.

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Diddy Kong

Donkey Kong
-No projectile.

-Summary: He's surprisingly fast and has deceptive range. Don't get too caught up in throwing the pikmin. His upb may be used used to attack the pikmin and hit you simultaneously. It will tear your shield like a peice of paper, so please. Don't shield. Use a spaced grab or pivotgrab.

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Falco

Fox
-Projectile: Pew pew pew

-Summary: First off... It's annoying. Even more so than falco's laser imo.

It stops your pikminz in their tracks when they're hit. It also shoots out faster than your pikmin. You might have to jump pretty high up and throw you pikmin from above. Just like against any fast character, make sure he's not within range of running under you. If you just stand and throw, you'll get outcamped.

This is difficult, but doable. You just have to be a more mobile thrower than normal, and you can't camp from too far away because...

He's got a very fast reflector. If he begins to pull it out, just sneak in and go for a grab. This is why you need to camp up close. Unless you've got a purple flying at him, try to ignore the pikmin that Fox would reflect back at you with the reflector. If they're diminished, they won't do much compared to how much damage you'll give Fox with a sexy grab combo.

-Followups: It's completely lagless, so he may run in with an anything. I tend to see dair a lot, but that's just fox.

-Difficulty: 8-9

Mr. Game and Watch
-Projectile: Bacon!

-Summary: If your opponent is using the bacon to try and outcamp you, don't even throw your pikmin. Just set down your controller and laugh at him until he quits the game out of embarrasment.

If he doesn't use the bacon to camp...
He is fast and has many lagless options to get the pikmin off with. If he's ahead and time is running out, you may have to approach. If he's killing them and avoiding approaching you to let time run out, after about ten seconds you need to begin to approach. If not, just stop throwing when he gets too close.

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Ganondorf
-No projectile.

-Summary: There really isn't anything to it. Just throw your pikmin to get him to approach. He doesn't have a projectile, and he's pretty slow . So just SH your pikmin at him. Rinse and repeat.

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Ice Climbers

Ike
-No projectile.

-Summary: There really isn't anything to it. Just throw your pikmin to get him to approach. He doesn't have a projectile, and he's pretty slow . So just SH your pikmin at him. Rinse and repeat. Latched pikmin stop his forward-b. He'll do the attack and kill the pikmin. You can punish this easily. Also, his counter(downb) will be activated by latched pikmin.

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Jigglypuff- No projectile.
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi

Mario
-Projectile: Fireball

-Summary: This is a mix of Pikachu's jolt and Luigi's fireball- they've got Luigi's properies, (doing 1% less though) and has a trajectory similar to Pikachu's jolt. They're used strategically as if they are the jolts though.

-Followups: General fireball use will consist of SHfireballs>a followup. If you shield, he'll probably grab you. If you spotdodge, he'll grab you after the spotdodge or he miight use his jab combo (1,2,3) which will last longer than a spotdodge. You shouldn't fall for either.

You need to throw your pikmin at the fireball- whether this means jumping back or forward, or even standing still.* After you're sure that you've negated the projectile, continue to play your tight defensive game.*-If you choose to stand still while throwing, just make sure Mario won't be within attack reach to punish your pikmin throw.
• Notes:
-pikmin will negate the fireballs.
-fireballs have less lag than pikachu's jolts.

-Difficulty: 5

Marth- No projectile.
Meta-Knight- No projectile.
Ness
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
Pit

Pokemon Trainer
Squirtle
-Projectile: Water Gun

-Summary: It doesn't do damage, and therefore isn't a viable camping projectile against most characters. There is that small chance though that you'll happen to be camping the ledge and he'll use it to push you off to set up for edgeguarding. I won't cover this for obvious reasons though.

He's pretty darn quick, and has aerial mobility similar to that of Wario. Just take your regular precautions.

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Charizard
-Projectile: Flamethrower

-Summary: See Bowser

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Ivysaur

ROB
-Projectiles: Lasers and gyro

-Summary
• Your opponent’s efficiency-
Both the gyro and the laser will be used in conjunction with one another as efficiently as possible. Here are some things to expect:
-When you’re far away, he’ll shoot lasers, and when you get hit back, he’ll begin to charge his gyro while waiting for the next laser. (He has to wait about three seconds between lasers. During that time, he can do anything, including charging his gyro.)
-After every gyro, he’ll shoot a laser. I’m telling you- every time. Shield both, or if you can, spotdodge/roll past the gyro and shield the laser. This is because the gyro disappears after hitting a shield. You want it on the field so he can’t use it!

• Positioning yourself-
-Camp from up close- He outcamps you from afar. You need to close the space to give him more pressure from the pikmin spammage.
-Try not to shorthop you pikmin throws when you think he’ll use his gyro- He’ll try to time the gyro to hit you as you land. (during those few vulnerability frames you have while landing)

• Other important info-
-Grab the gyro by dash attacking into it. Don’t try to pick it up any other way.
-When you have the gyro in hand, don’t throw it. You can still use your specials with it in hand. (this means pikmin throw!)
-The gyro goes farther the longer it is charged.
-Pikmin will stop the gyro, but his lasers go through, even your purples. They all die either way.
-The lasers bounce off of the ground and platforms.

-Followups:
-If he’s got the gyro in his hand, don’t expect him to automatically throw it. He can still use his lasers until you prove that he can’t outcamp you.
-Glide tossing- Rob has a VERY good glide toss. When he feels that you’d be caught off guard, he’ll glide toss the gyro and follow up with a grab or a smash attack. You can spotdodge both options if you time it well. You can’t fsmash him out of it because the pikmin will hit the gyro and his followup attack will punish you. Just shield the gyro, and then roll away or spotdodge the attack/grab followup.

-Difficulty: 7-8

Samus
:shiek:Sheik
-Projectile: Needle Storm

-Summary: Needles can be charged or uncharged. Lets start with the former.

Single needles are stopped easily by a single pikmin. One of the little fellows just has to be in the way and it'll take the hit for you. Just throw you pikmin normally, and when they jump off or they're knocked off, they'll walk back to you, creating a flesh wall to stop any oncoming needles. In the beginning of the match, it's important to get at least one on the ground before you begin your pikmin barrage. If your opponent reacts quick enough, you'll take a little bit of damage.

You need to be more cautious around charged needles. They come out just as quick, but give more hitstun and a whopping 18% undiminished.

-Followups:
Single Needle- none
Charged Needles- You'll find that sheik has a rather quick and frightening dash attack. It's great to use directly after a needle storm because of the hitstun of the needles. Anticipate and try to spotdodge. Shielding can work just as well, but she might grab you. :o

-Difficulty: 4

Snake

-Projectiles: Nikita (homing missle), Grenades, and Mortar (upsmash)

-Summary: So you might have came in here thinking that there's no way to outcamp Snake. You've seen the difficulty level I gave it at the bottom, and you were stumped. You do outcamp Snake though.

First off, you can't camp from far away. When you're too far from Snake and camped on the edge, he will outcamp you. This is for two reasons.
1. The grenades are more likely to stop (after being thrown) at the edge of the stage.
2. Your pikmin throw doesn't have as much range as Snake's grenades do.

You've got to stay at around mid-range on the stage you're on. On Final Destination, stand near the middle diamond. On all the other stages, you need to be about half the length of FD apart from Snake.

Grenades can be difficult to get past. One thing you have to realize is that you don't have to be jumping around all the time. He can only have two grenades out at once. Learn the timing of the grenades and when you should be grounded to shield, or when you should be away from the grenades to avoid the explosion. You'll have the opportunity between grenades to throw your pikmin. Just be patient.

The Nikita (homing missle) shouldn't be very hard to get past. You've just got to learn how Snake's like to use it. >_< Here's some tips:
-Pikmin that are latched onto Snake's front will blow up the nikita!, just as they do against Toon Link's bombs. The nikita won't damage him though.
-Whatever you do, don't roll. They predict it every time, so don't do it. If there's an instance where you can't avoid it, try to roll backwards instead of forwards.
-Shielding works better than rolling or spotdodging will.
-Be mobile. In other words, don't stand still. You should jump around while airdodging to avoid the nikita if you can. You're faster than it.
-When you get close enough, he'll cancel the nikita and it'll drop straight down.
-Purple pikmin thrown at the nikita will push it up. They won't cancel it. They slow it down a bit.
-All other pikmin will blow it up upon contact.

-Followups: DACUS (dash attack canceled upsmash)- You'll find that this will be Snake's main followup. Because of this spacing tool, you might want to consider throwing your pikmin while standing, and not jumping. If you get predictable and make a pattern out of Short hopping your pikmin throw, landing, and repeating, he'll try to time the DACUS to be under you are in the air. (if he's smart) It's very quick and will catch you off guard if you're looking at your pikmin throwing instead of Snake.

-Difficulty: 6

Sonic
-No projectile.

-Summary: He's VERY fast on the ground. I recommend not SHing the pikmin because he'll run up underneath you within half a second. That's not where you want to be.

-Followups: none
-Difficulty: 0

Toon Link
Wario- No projectile.
Wolf
Yoshi

Zelda
-Projectile: Din's fire

-Summary: Din's din's din's. Where do I start?

"This attack has received a number of buffs. It now has a very large explosion radius (which like Melee, still increases with how much time it travels before detonating, along with damage and knockback!), increased damage, increased travel speed, increased detonation speed, increased maneuverability of the fireball, and reduced afterlag. Yeah, that's a lot."
-RyokoYaksa(link)

The most important thing to know is the range on its hitbox. It's huge. Its range increases the longer it has been out- and so does its "priority." For example, you nair will outprioritize it at close range, but at max range, it won't.

Din's fire can be curved to make it harder to dodge. If you airdodge or spotdodge too early, your opponent may extend din's past you to hit you when your invincibility frames wear off. This is VERY important as well. Methods I use to combat against this include SHing into the din's before airdodging, SHing away from din's, and use running spotdodges. These can help make it harder for Zelda to time the din's correctly.

This picture was taken from the same thread that I stole the info on Din's fire from Ryoko-VVVVVV


That's outrageous isn't it? There's a way around it! It's called shielding, airdodging, and spotdoding between pikmin throws. Sounds easy right? After lots of practice it will become second nature.How to outcamp din's:

1.) You HAVE to stay close to the ground when you're throwing you pikmin. This means shorthopping and fastfalling constantly. No full jumps. Full jumps make it easier on Zelda to time the Din's to hit you as you're landing. If she catches you with din's as you're landing, you're screwed and you have to start all over again.

Upon landing any SHed and FFed aerial, you have any of three options to protect yourself from din's fire: shielding, spotdodging, and rolling. Your quickest option being pulling out a shield. There are pre-shield, pre-spotdodge, and pre-roll vulnerability frames on those options. This means that between your fastest protective option there are vulnerable frames where any attack can hit you. In this case, it's din's fire.This is important to keep in mind.

2.) If you know you messed up, and you're going to have to land as the din's reaches you, you need to double jump and airdodge at the same time. Remember, you're not pressured to throw them very fast. You're not battling lasers, but din's- a projectile that has both pre and after lag.

3.) Shielding- if you're having trouble getting within range to throw your pikmin, you don't need to SHing and airdodge the din's, just shield it. Shielding is just as good to do.

4.) Running at your opponent after a din's- This merely a psycological way to mess up your opponent. If they see you running at them, they may think that they've won the camp war and you've decided to approach. They'll stop spamming din's to take defense mindset. This is when you SH backwards and throw your pikmin forwards. Often times, they'll use another din's to try to hit you. You'll have a couple pikmin heading their way. Most often times from my experience, they'll just give up and run at you. This is good! You can use this strategy to sort of "weave" into her comfort zone and pull back out back and forth and back and forth. It frustrates them if you do it properly.

5.) Nairing din's- As I mentioned earlier, the longer din's stays out, the more priority it has. At its farthest range, your nair will not clank with it. At it's shortest range up to about twice the length of Olimar's ftilt, your nair will have priority over it. You can use this to cancel out din's with a hitbox. Attacking din's with nair WILL NOT restore your other moves.

Methods of throwing:
shield>SHpikmin throw>fast fall>shield- this is the simplest way to throw you pikmin while being safe from din't at the same time. You shield din's fire, throw your pikmin, and shield the next din's. It's really simple. The only problem is that after a couple din's, your shield won't be as strong.

shield>SHDP (Short Hop Double Pikmin)>fast fall>shield- It's the same concept as above, but it's being more efficient with pikmin throws.

SHairdodge>SHDP>SHairdodge- This is my most reliable pikmin throwing strategy against Din's fire spam. When you're SHairdodging, you should be moving back in forth to make it harder for Zelda to time din's right. It won't wear down your shield, and if you do it right, you won't take any damage either.

-Followups: For the most part, she can't. It has too much lag. If you're far away, she'll most likely use another din's.

If she decides to try and shoot you at point blank range,(and she hits you) she may follow up with an upsmash.

-Difficulty: 6

Zero Suit Samus


IX. Troubleshooting:
Having trouble with anything? If I don't cover it here, just post your problem or send me a pm.

-SHing (Short Hopping)
If you're having trouble short hopping, the only way to get better is to practice. If you own a copy of melee, use fox some. Practice his SH for about 10 minutes a day. Overdoing it won't make you better, just more tired. If you don't own melee, the fox in brawl will do fine too. If you don't have brawl, there really isn't anything you can do to practice it.

-Retreating SHDP ( Short Hop Double Pikmin [throw])
This is hard at first. If you haven't mastered SHing, then practice that first. After that, practice reatreating and single pikmin throwing. For retreating SHDP, you need to use tap jump. It makes it much easier.

Right after you SH back, you need to push the control stick the direction you want to throw and then move it back and forward and back almost in a rythm.(pressing "a" when neccesary of course) When you're practicing, think about this "rythm."

If that was too confusing for you, just know that practice makes perfect. lol

X. Credits and Other:

Update Log- beginning 8/31
8/31-Some projectileless character summaries added.
9/02-Sheik added
9/03-Zelda finished + some new sections
9/05-More info in V. and VI. + glossary
9/10-Info in v. and VI. +Fox added
9/12-Fox and Snake info added
9/17-Snake info added
9/19-Cleanup
9/25-To Pluck or Not to Pluck section added +Rob updated
10/2-Bowser, Charizard, and Mario updated
11/5-Cleanup

Credits
RyokoYaksa- for the picture of din's and some info about it.

Specifically quoted persons:
Richbrown

Thanks to everyone!

Have questions or comments? Just post.

Include the flight patterns of each Pikmin, there speed and arcs. I'd also like to see benifical latch areas.

against the fire breather's it gets annoying as only red's will make it through and yellows over (if aimed up)
all of TL's are easily stopped and you're will keep coming
uhhh yeah...
how do you want them rated?

DanGr makes too many helpful threads, soon he'll run out of ideas.

Anyways Im looking foward to see the matchups

Brilliant work DanGR. Reminds me of TrueRedemption's Guide...

Hmm. Well, the obvious pikmin vs. projectile analysis is that Red Pikmin go through Bowser's and Charizard's fire. I think blues go thru water gun and fludd.

Couple random ones:

-All pikmin cancel lucario's shadow ball, no matter what its size

-All pikmin blow up snakes nikita (I'm not sure if reds travel through it actually, someone check me on that)

-All non-yellow pikmin get chewed up by ZSS neutral B stunner. From what I remember, it actually sends them WAY up in the air without killing them, so be sure to have the whistle handy. As for Yellows, again I can't remember what happens if they get hit by it.

-Ivysaur's Razor leaf eats pikmin.

-If a pikmin is latched to TL when he throws a bomb forward, it will explode in his face.

Also, it is important to note that Pikmin are one of very few projectiles that can go through the statues on the 2nd part of castle siege as well as the pillars on luigi's mansion (razor leaf is the only other move i know of that goes through it).

I've become extremely fond of purple pikmin lately. They are awesome for approaching. I'll generally toss one, and if the opponent shields it then I'll grab, and if they roll towards me or away from me I'll pivot grab of dash grab. having two purple pikmin is awesome because then you can toss both and it makes running in for a grab that much easier.

Purple U-Smash is the 4th strongest U-Smash in the game.

RichBrown said:

-All pikmin blow up snakes nikita (I'm not sure if reds travel through it actually, someone check me on that)

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-Red Pikmin are inmune to the damage and knockback of all of Snake's explosives, and go through them. It also happens with Link and Tlink's bombs and Samus's missiles and bombs.

RichBrown said:

-All non-yellow pikmin get chewed up by ZSS neutral B stunner. From what I remember, it actually sends them WAY up in the air without killing them, so be sure to have the whistle handy. As for Yellows, again I can't remember what happens if they get hit by it.

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-Yellow pikmin DO get sent away by ZSS's Neutral B, but I think they receive no damage. Btw Yellow pikmin are inmune to all of Zelda's tilts and smashes except dtilt and dsmash. And they eat Samus's Charge Shot and all of the Space Animals's blasters and reflectors(when latched).

RichBrown said:

I think blues go thru water gun and fludd.

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They do.

On a side note, I found something I thing is worth mentioning: if you throw a purple in the path of the ice climbers's spammed ice shots , they'll get stuck in the ground and will block the incoming ice shots again and again. It must be timed (I tested at the same ground level than the climbers, you have to throw the purple roughly at the same time the climbers shot for it to work). It will work as long as the climbers continue firing ice shots, so it may be a way to make them waste time or stop spamming.

Sorry if some information was alredy known or redundant, but it was not mentioned here, so there it goes.

Occsaionally, purples will go through the nikita missle with both intact after the collision if the purple's hitbox hit the missle's hurtbox first. If the missle activates on the purple's hitbox first, the missle will go boom.
Don't forget pikmin= easy way to gimp ness or Ike

asob4 said:

how do you want them rated?

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Anyone (except ganon) can continue to kill the pikmin to get Olimar to approach. Most people don't realize this, but it's true. I'll explain this in the guide later. I'm rating the matchups on how difficult it is to outcamp the opponent. When they stop to attack the pikmin, you've succeeded. If you can get an opponent to either attack the pikmin or approach you (which is what you want) within about 2 seconds, the difficulty will be very low. Characters like Rob and Falco will be higher.

Ummm I think when you latch a pikmin on ike and when he does side B. He automatically uses it without moving =/

Good guide, mostly for newbies to Olimar though considering most of us probably already understand the aspects of the Pikmin throw. But good guide anyway

By the way, why are all the difficulty levels 0? Unless thats the characters difficulty level for projectile vs. projectile, because Donkey Kong's fists are Anti-Pikmin shields.

That's true, Ike's Side B pales in comparison to Pikmin Latch. lol.

Barge said:

DanGr makes too many helpful threads, soon he'll run out of ideas.

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Still comin. lol

bumpity bump. This thread will not die. Zelda has been updated fully. Hows yah like?

Also,

Good guide, mostly for newbies to Olimar though considering most of us probably already understand the aspects of the Pikmin throw. But good guide anyway

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I'm not writing this guide for complete noobies. I want to further Olimar's metagame. The best way to do that is for everyone to understand how to completely nullify every single character's projectile game perfectly. I think Olimar has the best, so I'm writing this guide. Some of the things I'll be adding won't be common knowledge.

squirtle has water gun.

I almost finished Snake. Anything anyone would like to add to his summary?

I coulda sworn the nikita blows up on all non-purple pikmin... I remember randomly throwing pikmin against CPU snake's nikitas cuz I was too lazy to move. And it worked barring yellows which went over, and purples, which just deflected it a bit.

Errr...Could someone check that?^ I was pretty sure that pikmin won't blow it up the nikita unless they're latched onto Snake. It's the same thing with bombs. The pikmin won't blow them up, but will instead deflect them a bit, as you put it. I'm also unsure about that.

iirc, pikmin blow up nikita when thrown at it. woot.

RichBrown said:

iirc, pikmin blow up nikita when thrown at it. woot.

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I'm pretty sure that's right. Anyway, if Snake uses is Nikita (especially from a long distance), just throw your Pikmin at Snake.

Maybe you should include a list of projectiles that the Purple Pikmin can go through. I think that would help a lot, since the fat ******* tends to flop on many attacks and keep on going.

OlimarFan said:

I'm pretty sure that's right. Anyway, if Snake uses is Nikita (especially from a long distance), just throw your Pikmin at Snake.

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I had editted the OP to include this and some other stuff, but the server went down for update. Thankfully, I decided to copy what I wrote before I posted, or I would have lost it. The info is on a different computer- that I don't have access to right now. On monday I'll update again.

Excellence said:

Maybe you should include a list of projectiles that the Purple Pikmin can go through. I think that would help a lot, since the fat ******* tends to flop on many attacks and keep on going.

Click to expand...

Great idea!

this is a sweet guide, i was reading it, then powned my brothers marth and meta knight

Dedede's Nair is actually VERY effective at removing latched Pikmin, just so you know.

^You're right. It does get pikmin off of himself easily. In order to use nair though, he's got to jump. Every time your opponent jumps to use an attack to get pikmin off of themself, they're either using the aerial as they fall back and get closer to the edge of the stage, and thus pressuring them, or they're creating an opening for punishment. (capitalizing on the landing vulnerability frames) If their attack isn't used to hit Olimar, then it can be grabbed. It's as simple as that.

great guide DanGR, as an olimar player i find this very helpful

GaW has bacon as a projectile. It isnt good, especially compared to pikmen, but it is there =\.

G&W is harder than 0. Even without a projectile he can just dtilt camp until Oli approaches, am I rite?

no lol
we'll grab hi tard-o

we've already discussed this with GnW mains and it's even and VERY stage dependent

I was playing with Olimar...but I got very disapointed, when more than once my oponent put me out of the stage and I couldn´t return...not for the damage, not even for the lack of pikmins...it was because he was hagging on the edge...thats not fair, they can do that even if you have only 30% of damage...and there is no way to aviod it...or is it??

I came up with a pretty good strat vs snake. Basically, use sh-pikmin throw, but right when he starts to move, stop. From here, if you have a purple next, throw it, and continue to camp, because it will hit snake out of the dacus, which is likely what he is doing. Any other pikmin would be hit away/killed if thrown while he's doing this. If you don't have a purple, either shield it and d-smash or something, or pivotgrab. From there, just continue camping lol.

Gordo

Not sure if this has been posted, but it's not in the first post. Pikmin in general will stop the flight of Waddle-Dees, Doos, and Gordos(spiked ball), in fact, if you toss a Pikmin into a Gordo, the Pikmin will live (maybe not the whites) and the Gordo will disappear.

Sheik's needles do 18% damage when undiminished. I tested it.

I'm surprised I never read this. I think this deserves a bump.

Thanks.

I should probably update this sometime.

I had somethin good goin here.

Yeah. I actually learned a thing or two about camping in specific MUs.

I would add that G&W can hold his match stick thing out and it will kill all pikmin but reds that are thrown at him. which can get annoying when trying to camp. When you go to pluck more pikmin he will most likely run in to close the distance or go for an attack.

LOL!

I don't have very good MU experience. D:

I knew camping was different in different MUs, but I didn't know about a few things like Mario's fireballs do less damage than Luigi's. :X