The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

Arturito_Burrito said:
it doesn't matter kirk beat the only kirby hes played offline so us Ike's can put the match up 80-20 in our favor. Or at least that's what sheer madness thinks.

wtf?! gtfo

seriously, that post has so much "dumbness" in it it's not even funny.

*points to lil red x in upper right hand corner*

EDIT

lolwifi

lolXyz (i know who he is)

lolwifipros

SaltyKracka · Jan 3, 2009

Suspect said:
wtf?! gtfo

seriously, that post has so much "dumbness" in it it's not even funny.

*points to lil red x in upper right hand corner*

Could you please act more noobishly? I'm recording this as a lesson for future gamers.

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

SaltyKracka said:
Could you please act more noobishly? I'm recording this as a lesson for future gamers.

yeah you gtfo too.

SaltyKracka · Jan 3, 2009

Suspect said:
yeah you gtfo too.

Thanks. You don't know just how much you're helping.

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

SaltyKracka said:
Thanks. You don't know just how much you're helping.

yea want more help, read the posts on this thread from the Ike users.

momochuu · Jan 3, 2009

The matchup is 60-40.

Why are you all still listening to Sheer?

Wifi doesn't matter

Calm down. It's Brawl.

SaltyKracka · Jan 3, 2009

Suspect said:
yea want more help, read the posts on this thread from the Ike users.

You're....really just oblivious, aren't you?

Arturito_Burrito · Jan 3, 2009

how does my post have much dumbness in it? /dumbness

Kirk only said 70-30 because sheer was talking about labeling the match up 70-30 kirby because he had beat Ike's on wifi and the local Ike player.

Then framerate said it didn't count because that was a bad kirby but he didn't tell anything to sheer. Which is why I said it didn't matter.

Don't make me start writing in hiakou style el paso is very skilled at poetry.

Also 10$ MM at FS5? I don't have much money but I feel like having one at least.

Ruthless · Jan 3, 2009

These ike users must think they are Marth

SaltyKracka · Jan 3, 2009

Ruthless said:
These ike users must think they are Marth

Their basic playstyles are very similar, yes.

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

Ill be more than happy to MM you at FS5 but only for 5$ cuz i have like 4 other MM's

Kirby vs Ike 2/3

Arturito_Burrito · Jan 3, 2009

alright kool I'm going to be paying you in all pennies if I lose FYI.

and yes Ike and Marth are very similar idk why some 8 post person would make fun of Ike mains like that but like 80% of the Ike mains switched over to marth and another 10% second him.

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

Just because a character is from the same series does not make them similiar, if they were ike would be top tier >_>

Stop basing stuff off of peoples post or "how new they are" i hate when message boards does this.

And if you pay me in pennies make sure they are nice shiny 2009 ones.

Rykoshet · Jan 3, 2009

Ruthless said:
These ike users must think they are Marth

Your mom...

momochuu · Jan 3, 2009

No one listens to Bunny. *Sigh*

SaltyKracka · Jan 3, 2009

Suspect said:
Just because a character is from the same series does not make them similiar, if they were ike would be top tier >_>

Stop basing stuff off of peoples post or "how new they are" i hate when message boards does this.

And if you pay me in pennies make sure they are nice shiny 2009 ones.

1. Actually, same series or not, Ike and Marth do have the same basic playstyle, that being "space and punish mistakes". The difference in tier is determined by the other things, like the character move speed, attack speed, recovery, etc.
2. However, new or not, the guy was totally wrong, and made a fool out of himself.

Arturito_Burrito · Jan 3, 2009

if you think that the only reason we say Ike and marth are alike is because they are from the same game then that just shows you know nothing of Ike. (or of marth but I doubt that's the case)

both characters revolve around spacing heavily.

I only have 1829 pennies though will that do?

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

I know alot about basically the whole cast and i can play with like 80% of them pretty well. (ike and marth being in that group)

so if you feel like losing more pennies be my guest >_>

Lord Viper · Jan 3, 2009

The Sleepy One said:
Ike's best stage is for fighting Kirby would be Norfair, Pirate Ship, or Castle Siege.

Don't forget Yoshi's Island, Green Hill, Onett, and Yoshi's Island Melee, Ike rule's those stages to, but of course Kirby rules Rainbow Curise, Pokemon Stadum 1 and 2, and a little more. But fighting your Ike, it mind as well be even because your too good. x_x

And did this smart match up debate turn into a pointless one in a few second's?

SaltyKracka · Jan 3, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
Don't forget Yoshi's Island, Green Hill, Onett, and Yoshi's Island Melee, Ike rule's those stages to, but of course Kirby rules Rainbow Curise, Pokemon Stadum 1 and 2, and a little more. But fighting your Ike, it mind as well be even because your too good. x_x

And did this smart match up debate turn into a pointless one in a few second's?

Ah, the magic of idiot trolls.

momochuu · Jan 3, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
And did this smart match up debate turn into a pointless one in a few second's?

Kirby egos. They're too good.

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
Kirby eggos. They're too good.

fix'd

That would be cool to have some eggo waffles that looked like my avatar

Arturito_Burrito · Jan 3, 2009

well what does kirby do to get around Ike's spacing? is there any quick approach for this?

I can't really see how kirby can play defensively while Ike out ranges him with almost everything.

Asdioh · Jan 3, 2009

SaltyKracka said:
Well, Ikes for the most part consider this matchup fairly neutral. (As do I, though a good Kirby is hard to find) While Kirby can indeed use throw chains and such, the problem for him is that any good Ike will space fairs and nairs so well that he can't ever get inside Ike. However, once he's there, Kirby can smack Ike up until the Ike manages to GTHO.

Spacing is the key to this matchup for Ike, especially since he should be killing Kirby very early (likely off the top).

The key to this matchup for Kirby is breaking Ike's spacing (Final Cutter won't do it, and is just asking to get faired or jabbed) and then going for throw combos, getting Ike off the stage, and gimping him, though an Ike that's about to get gimped might decide to Aethercide.

This guy pretty much summed it up perfectly.

Except you can SDI out of Aethercide, can't you? I wouldn't know, the only move I've gotten into the habit of SDI-ing so far is Pikachu's downsmash.

YagamiLight said:
Silly grab combos (Silly means ******** here, as a grab can inflict 30% or so on Ike at 0%, although this makes up for the very large weight difference)

I wouldn't say it's "********" to do 30% from 0, since other characters can do 20+ in just one move. And then there's Snake who can jab cancel ->ftilt for 24% and that works at percents that are higher than 0, if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway yeah, Ike is one of the easiest characters to grab combo, but DI away and you shouldn't take too much damage.

Or rather, don't get grabbed when you're at 0%, any good player should be aware of the fact that Kirby has throw combos and be prepared to punish grabs/dashgrabs that Kirby whiffs.

SaltyKracka said:
Ah, the magic of idiot trolls.

Hey Viper isn't a troll. His posts are just somewhat confusing sometimes.

The only troll on the Kirby board I can think of is Suspect

I dunno if Sheer is a "troll", but he definitely has his opinions.

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
Kirby egos. They're too good.

No u

ANYWAY stop flaming and crap, I was shocked to see how many posts this thread got in the past 3 hours.

Recap: Ike camping fair/nair is hard as hell for Kirby to beat.
If Kirby manages to get inside, he'll combo the crap out of Ike. Especially with throw combos at 0%
Kirby beats Ike offstage. Ike is one of the easier characters for Kirby to gimp.
Ike can kill Kirby at very low percents with fsmash, ftilt, dair spike, etc.
Ike's jab owns. >_>

Another thing: from my experience, Kirby can dthrow, chase, and regrab Ike when he lands for another dthrow. Dthrow does 12 damage and sends Ike up into the air, while Kirby is on the ground. What can Ike do to avoid this? He can't mindgame nearly as easily as Kirby can (5 aerial jumps) to bait a shield or grab and punish. Kirby can shieldgrab Ike's nair/fair pretty easily since the Ike won't have much time to space after being dthrown.

Note: Ike is one of the four characters that I really use in this game (Kirby, TL, Captain Falcon, Ike) so I know quite a bit about him, though I won't pretend that I'm great with him.

So yeah there's my input. Approximately 55-45 Kirby's favor.

well what does kirby do to get around Ike's spacing? is there any quick approach for this?

I can't really see how kirby can play defensively while Ike out ranges him with almost everything.

It's difficult. Final Cutter can disrupt the fair/nair camping, if Kirby maximizes the distance for the shockwave so he can't be punished. But it's not really a valid strategy to use a lot.

He can run in and try to powershield the aerial, but it usually leads into jabs or a grab.

Approaching from above is difficult because of Ike's priority.

It's possible, but difficult. This is definitely the biggest problem for me in this matchup. However, as has been stated, once Kirby gets inside, Ike's in trouble.

One thing I forgot to mention... Kirby with Eruption = :D

fsdfsdgsgdf · Jan 3, 2009

hmph

10char

Arturito_Burrito · Jan 3, 2009

The answer to your Dthrow question is pretty easy. The reason it's not a chain grab or the throw chase and regrab doesn't work is because Every character except for fox I think can just jump out of it. If they get grabbed again well thats there fault but I don't think a good follow up would be to just chase Ike and try to regrab instead use Utilt and some juggling.

Kinzer · Jan 3, 2009

Beware the wall of text.

kirbz said:
just curious, but what are most ike's favoritest moves? that's important

apparently nair and fair are some of them.

Nair/Fair/Bair/Dair if you get stupid offstage/Jab/FSmash if you get stupid onstage/UTilt.

The Sleepy One said:
A lot of Ike mains use Side Special a lot because it can lead to combo's or a fast attack

No good Ike will use Quickdraw like that.

kirbz said:
what is an ike's main approach tactic? i heard that with QD, a glitch can occur that usually means death to ike.

We won't approach you, and if we do we use Fair/Nair to space/start jab combos respectively.

SheerMadness said:
Kriby ***** Ike.

xYz is in my crew and I never ever lose to him.

For anyone who didnt know, you can stone Ike's up b which ***** the hell out of him.

65-35 or 70-30 Kirby.

Obvious troll is obvious (I'm also starting to questino what these freaking elite join dates people have over the 08ers as of recently)

SaltyKracka said:
....no. Just no.

This

SheerMadness said:
Y u p

N o p

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
70-30 is just too much. Play good Ikes.

This again.

SheerMadness said:
I've played good Ikes. When I played Renegade TX in an online tourney he went Ike game 1 and lost then switched to Snake cause he realized I know how to play Ikes.

Kirby ***** Ike.

LOL

no.

SheerMadness said:
And when I played Kirk online(granted this was a long time ago) I won like 90% of the matches.

EDIT:

So if I beat all the Ikes I play offline AND online why should I not put the matchup at 65-35 or 70-30?

I'm done.

YagamiLight said:
To be honest, depending on how you look at it I'd possibly say 45-55 Kirby's favor or 50-50. It's actually a fight to see who can capitalize on the other's weaknesses.

40-60 Kirby is if you REALLY stretch it, but other boards have this habit of doing that. Anything higher and I'm reporting you to the authorities for illegal substance abuse.

I'll go for 55-45 Kirby's favor... it kind feels neutral though, depending on how the match could be played, but whatever.

This is too good.

Kirk said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPVhHE-SaKU

Kirby got *****. 70-30 Ike.

Awesome.

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
The matchup is 60-40.

Why are you all still listening to Sheer?

Wifi doesn't matter

Calm down. It's Brawl.

Okay. Trolls have some kind of magical powers. Yes. I like Brawl! :/

Ruthless said:
These ike users must think they are Marth

We're not gay.

~Kawaii Bunny~ said:
No one listens to Bunny. *Sigh*

... *cough.*

Viper JLT4GOV said:
And did this smart match up debate turn into a pointless one in a few second's?

Yes. I should lurk the Kirby boards, this shiz is too good. I hope you do Sonic sometime soon so I can come back to this wonderland.

Okay now, finally, my opinion! (nobody cares about what I say though

).

Character: Ike

Difficulty rating: 3/5

Overview: Ike can do whatever, he can camp and let you approach him, or he can space his attacks to approach you. We'll be camping more often, though.

Pros+Cons: Ike is a powerhouse, this doesn't help when Kirby is light. Ike is also pretty heavy, so unless you gimp him, you won't be outright killing him much faster than hew ould be killing you. Ike has no "GTHO" move, meaning your throws lead into 50%+ damage if you get inside Ike.

Watch out for: Anything wih range/power/deceptive speed. Ike is all about this minus the deceptive speed to a lesser extent.

How to win: [Gimp/get around his comfort zone/punish his misplaced attacks.

Spit out or Swallow?: Unless you want to be funny and try to kill Ike with Eruption, you're better of sucking him and spitting him at an angle he can't recover.

What NOT to do: Get hit. Simple as that. Then don't get grabbed next to a wall, for he can infinite you.

Stages: Pick Final Destination/Japes against Ike, avoid any stage with a low blastzone such as Corneria or Green Greens.

Synopsis: Even or 6:4 in Kirby's favor at worst case scenario.

Now so I don't feel as robotic by following a form:

Ike is like an uninhabited fortress for Kirby... it's hard to approach him, but once you get inside of him, he can't do much to get you out of him. Depending on player attributes, Ike will either let you come to him, or the other way around, playing defensive seems like a better option for him since he wants to keep you away from him, but he has the range to space/approach if he felt like doing so.

Ike is very potent in the right hands, he won't be doing the FSmash-spamming you hear from some people, he'll only use his strong attacks when he is certain they will connect. Ike while generally slow, has some speed to counterweight his power. To get damage on you, he'll usually be doing his amazing jab game, throw in the occasional grab for a little extra damage, and Fairs/Nairs/Bairs in the air.

Ike's recovery is mediocre at best, so I don't know how Kirby does, but I do know that swallow-shenanigans can be quite affective. If your DSmash or FSmash send at that low horizontal angle, you can be assured Ike won't be making it back because Quickdraw takes time to charge, and Aether doesn't do squat. Thanks to his weight, you won't be killing him anytime soon. For stages, simply go to Frigate Orpheon/Jungle Japes, which ever one Ike might ban.

That's my two cents.

SheerMadness · Jan 3, 2009

Obvious troll is obvious (I'm also starting to questino what these freaking elite join dates people have over the 08ers as of recently)

We "elite join daters" played competitive melee which takes far more skill than noob *** brawl.

killer tofu · Jan 3, 2009

TKD said:
List needs updating...Kirby beats Marth...Can KO quicker, does more damage, recovers better.

Marth's ftilt is not that good a move. The description overrates it. As well as fair, which Kirby's bair beats. And if you're spaced vertically and horizontally well enough, you may not get upair'd often, which is his best move on an aerial Kirby.

Good SoCal Marth/Kirby players like MikeHAZE, MogX, Havok could describe the matchup. Kirby wins.

mogx is too good though

-mikehaze on tofu's account

Kinzer · Jan 3, 2009

SheerMadness said:
We "elite join daters" played competitive melee which takes far more skill than noob *** brawl.

You're still here?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Okay, Brawl is for n00bs, and apparently since you know anything about this game, you're one of them/us.

SheerMadness · Jan 3, 2009

I know that Kirby ***** Ike which is apparently more than you know.

Anyone on smashboards that played competitive melee for any decent length of time will agree that melee players are MUCH smarter players than those who didn't. That is what "elite join daters" have over 08 brawl noobs like yourself Kinzer.

Kinzer · Jan 3, 2009

And apparently you know more than the Kirby mains/Kirby boards.

D***it why am I still talking to you?

Can somebody else besides this troll agree/disagree with my points?

Hoser · Jan 3, 2009

'08er's suck. Melee > Brawl

wait...

kirbz · Jan 3, 2009

Cambriel said:
'08er's suck. Melee > Brawl

wait...

then go away

kirbz · Jan 3, 2009

alright, lets stop arguing about trolls and eggo waffles and discuss stuff.

i have another question/survey for ikes to sum this stuff up:

How do they edgeguard?
How do they guardbreak?
What do Ikes use _(insert move here)_ for?
What to expect?
What not to expect?

Now give a summary on Ike based on this survey.

Kinzer · Jan 3, 2009

But I like Eggos.

We will usually use Reverse-Aether to edgegaurd, since it's a spike and covers a lot of vertical distance. Dair is a stronger spike, and if the spike hitbox doesn't hit, it will stick out for a couple extra seconds and still do a strong hit. We might also just Fair from the stage to occasionally switch it up.

I don't understand what you mean by guardbreak, can you please use antoher term I may be familiar with/describe it to me?

You will only see an Ike use Eruption to hit you out of a move with the Super Armor frames or if they're just too lazy to chase you offstage, they will charge this on the ledge. That could be a problem seeing as how Kirby's Final Cutter (if they must resort to this) does not snap to the ledge like most other Up-B moves would.

If you're getting hit by counter, that's an indication that you're getting predictable, otherwise it's too slow for Ike to be using this to break any combos or anything like that. Aether is Ike's main way of recovery, but it also has it's offensive uses. For instance if you are high up in the sky, Ike can pull you down fast with Aether. Don't worry too much about Quickdraw. Jab is Ike's bread & butter, he will use it to get you high up in damage, is one of his fastest attacks, and of course to get other moves fresh.

Fair will be used to space, Nair will be used to encircle Ike around a hitbox/ combo right into his jabs, Uair to sweep the air, Bair can be a wildcard, and Ike's grabs will be used to set you up for stuff.

DTilt can spike, UTilt covers a huge hitbox/ is fast/ kills early/ takes care of aerial approaches, and FTilt can be used to hit get-up attacks for example.

kirbz · Jan 3, 2009

guardbreaking = anti-edgeguard

Kinzer · Jan 3, 2009

Ike has no such thing, his recovery doesn't allow for much flexibility.

MK26 · Jan 3, 2009

Well, this took really, really long to write up

killer tofu said:
mogx is too good though

-mikehaze on tofu's account

Who. Called. That?

BTW, by wading through all the spam, I've come to a few conclusions:
1) Ike has to play super defensively, campy, and mistake-free if he wants to win. A single mistake on his part can easily bring him to 50% or more
2) The onus is on Ike to control the tempo of the match - if the Kirby overwhelms him, gg next stock. If he doesn't, the Ike can keep getting chip damage until Kirby is in kill percent range
3) Ike players underestimate Kirby's F-smash
4)Both swallow and spit out are good choices
5) Simple way for Kirby to win: stay on the ground. Run toward Ike. Shield. Shieldgrab. Beat the **** outta Ike. Rinse. Repeat. Profit. No ????? here. Just profit.
6) Ike has weight, range, and power going for him (and his jab)
7) Kirby has attack speed, grab game, edgeguarding and anti-edgeguarding

Can somebody list all the good and bad stages in this matchup?
And I just don't see how Ike can get around Kirby's dashing shieldgrab approach. He has almost everything covered, but it's way too easy for Kirby to get inside if he just dash --> shield --> grab --> pwn. If somebody could explain this to me, I can see that its 55-45 in Kirby's favour or neutral. But if Ike just doesnt have a solid counter, the matchup is no less than Kirby's favour

Kirk said:
I'm still puzzled as to why people always say Nair auto cancels...because it doesn't. It just has minimal landing lag compared to his other aerials.

The autocanceling misnomer has really been bothering me. There's no no such thing as autocanceling. Nothing is canceled, automatically or not. It's just varying stages of landing lag, depending on when the aerial is landed. Aerials have had multiple landing lag windows since Smash 64, but everybody Z/L-canceled, so nobody ever figured it out because nobody ever took the time to not Z/L-cancel. If you need proof, fire up your N64 and take a look at Fox's B-air. Almost any time in the aerial, it has massive landing lag. But if you land before the hitbox comes out, there's almost no lag at all.

Thesis: stop calling it autocanceling!

Nidtendofreak · Jan 3, 2009

And I just don't see how Ike can get around Kirby's dashing shieldgrab approach.

Jab canceling/combat walking. He can just continuously use his first 2 jabs over and over. You drop the shield, jab beats out grab in both speed and range. (Frame 3 > Frame 6/7, what ever frame it is that grab comes out). If you keep the shield up, we can cancel the jab into a grab.

Or we could use a SH'd retreating Fair/Nair to keep you back. If it's Nair, Kirby is probably just within jab range upon landing.

The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Champion

SS Rank

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Not Asidoh

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Mammy

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Mammy

Smash Master

Mammy

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Mammy

Smash Apprentice

Mammy

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Information

Network