Everyone Underestimates Ike

•Col• · Sep 29, 2008

Yeah... =/

I've been seeing a lot of this lately.... Nearly every other character board out there underrates Ike and don't give him enough credit. Granted, it's hard to take him seriously after all the n00bs that flocked to him when Brawl was first released...

Yes, he's not even a "great" character.... But he's not THAT bad...

It makes me sad ;__;

Anyway... Just expressing some of my thoughts...

HeroMystic · Sep 29, 2008

Ike is probably the most underrated character on SWF.

But I don't mind that. That just means the element of surprise is in my favor.

(In fact, that's how all my mains are... Mario, Link, and Ike...)

YagamiLight · Sep 29, 2008

Here is my match-up guide for Anyone versus Ike:

Ike is a slow character. His attacks are powerful. Don't get hit. Gimp the Side B by jumping in front of it. You have a 7-3 advantage.

Seriously, every ****ING board has that as their match-up guide. "Don't get hit" is only like the best advice ever.

(And Ike is actually a good, solid character, and it hurts on the inside when people put him in low-mid/low)

Steeler · Sep 29, 2008

pt is way more underrated. for one, he's actually bottom tier.

the thing with ike is that he's really limited when it comes to approaching, and characters with good grabs and range can take advantage of that. and defensively he's a little short handed, since he lacks a variety of quick reactive attacks.

Tim_The_Enchanter · Sep 29, 2008

um... he IS low-mid tier at best. He is not the worst in the game, but he is clearly not the best.

Edit: I agree, PT is the MOST underrated character on the boards.

HeroMystic · Sep 29, 2008

I know, it pisses me off too, but that's just the thing.

Ike was thought to be top tier because of his power, then when people grew a brain and actually start to DODGE, then Ike suddenly became bad. That just means that Ike's metagame needs to grow, but not a lot of people who use Ike actually bother trying to do anything other than:

-Get to 40%
-F-Smash
-F-Smash
-F-Smash "Come on, it has to hit someday!"
-F-Smash

You get my drift. The good players just has to be more known.

EDIT: PT is underrated? I NEVER got that feeling anywhere.

•Col• · Sep 29, 2008

YagamiLight said:
Here is my match-up guide for Anyone versus Ike:

Ike is a slow character. His attacks are powerful. Don't get hit. Gimp the Side B by jumping in front of it. You have a 7-3 advantage.

Seriously, every ****ING board has that as their match-up guide. "Don't get hit" is only like the best advice ever.

(And Ike is actually a good, solid character, and it hurts on the inside when people put him in low-mid/low)

Lol, so true.... D: And I still think he's pretty good in Mid tier... Maybe move up a little bit, but certainly not down to low tier... -_-

Steeler36 from Nintendo NSider! said:
pt is way more underrated. for one, he's actually bottom tier.

the thing with ike is that he's really limited when it comes to approaching, and characters with good grabs and range can take advantage of that. and defensively he's a little short handed, since he lacks a variety of quick reactive attacks.

Eh? Ike's bad at approaching? o-o And not defensive? I've always felt Ike was more of a defensive character with his crazy range and strength...

But yeah, Pokemon Trainer is pretty underrated... Personally, I think he should be in mid-tier as well... Ike is still definitely more underrated though... Proof: Many people's reactions to Ike being in mid-tier ("Wtf!?! Ikez is 2 hi in the list!! He shuld be in bottm!!")

Yeah... -_-

EDIT: At least people have a different mindset with Pokemon trainer... <_< Like Light said, people just give like one sentence ("His attacks are slow and easy to dodge") while at least with Pokemon trainer, you know each one has it's own special little tricks and "schtuff"...

Hoser · Sep 29, 2008

He is extremely underrated. But the main reason for this is the lack of good Ike players around, and the obscene amount of noobs F-smashing everything. Go to just about any other forum, and you'll find like 10+ people who are really good with that character. But who do we have whose names bring recognition? Silven, Kirk, and Empy are pretty much the only widely known ones (though we do have other good Ike players as well, but they're not as widely known).

AndrewCarlson · Sep 29, 2008

Definitely. But then it's a shock when they actually face a good Ike every now and then.

Kirk · Sep 29, 2008

Ike is terrible and you should feel terrible for even considering playing as him.

Arturito_Burrito · Sep 29, 2008

Ike is a lot better at defensive than offensive I told steeler this in the PT vs Ike thread.

Anyways this thread is probably as bad as those Ike is broken threads. We either have an under rated character (which is actually awesome because when they come across an Ike who can actually play they don't know what to do) or an over rated character.

I'd take underestimated over overrated any day.

Hoser · Sep 29, 2008

I second that. It does give us an element of surprise over those who think Ike is only OMFG F-SMASH!!!!!!11111oneoneone.

Kinzer · Sep 29, 2008

Kirk said:
Ike is terrible and you should feel terrible for even considering playing as him.

Why Kirk, WHY?!

Arturito_Burrito said:
Ike is a lot better at defensive than offensive I told steeler this in the PT vs Ike thread.

Anyways this thread is probably as bad as those Ike is broken threads. We either have an under rated character (which is actually awesome because when they come across an Ike who can actually play they don't know what to do) or an over rated character.

I'd take underestimated over overrated any day.

Having just a little bit more smart mains would be nice, but the Ike community is alright as it is, at least we have it better than others *cough C.Falcon cough*.

As for people emphasizing the F-smash, I actually don't mind it as long as I mindgamed them into it, oh the feeling of pushing them off the stage and how they frantically airdodge but I wait for it to wear off and then BOOM HEADSHOT!!

Hylian · Sep 29, 2008

Ike does have one thing going for him.

Well...

I'll tell you when I find it >_>.

Rapid_Assassin · Sep 29, 2008

Colaya said:
Nearly every other character board out there underrates Ike and don't give him enough credit. Granted, it's hard to take him seriously after all the n00bs that flocked to him when Brawl was first released...

Here's why:

No one is going to think they have problems against Ike for these reasons. They'll probably never run into a good one. After playing a bunch of terrible Ikes, even ones that look like they might be OK but still suck, they're going to think "must be my character." (whether the character has an advantage or not is irrelevant) For the people who play against good Ikes a lot, they'll never have trouble with anyone else who plays the character. It's kind of hard for a lot of people to take him seriously when everyone they've run into with the character absolutely sucks.

Same thing could be said for almost anyone in the lower mid and bottom tiers, to be honest. You'd find one good one for every 20+ who suck.

So the matchup advice from random people tends to read something to the effect of: 1. don't get hit, 2. gimp him (usually good advice, but not many good players just let people gimp them over and over to quite the extent that people make it out to be), 3. any piece of advice that even a barely competent player won't fall for more than once in a great while.

~ Gheb ~ · Sep 29, 2008

Ike is certainly not underrated - on the contrary! Just look at his position on the tier list...an entire tier higher thanb Mario, despite being clearly the worse character...

Kirk · Sep 29, 2008

Rapid_Assassin said:
Here's why:

No one is going to think they have problems against Ike for these reasons. They'll probably never run into a good one. After playing a bunch of terrible Ikes, even ones that look like they might be OK but still suck, they're going to think "must be my character." (whether the character has an advantage or not is irrelevant) For the people who play against good Ikes a lot, they'll never have trouble with anyone else who plays the character. It's kind of hard for a lot of people to take him seriously when everyone they've run into with the character absolutely sucks.

Same thing could be said for almost anyone in the lower mid and bottom tiers, to be honest. You'd find one good one for every 20+ who suck.

So the matchup advice from random people tends to read something to the effect of: 1. don't get hit, 2. gimp him (usually good advice, but not many good players just let people gimp them over and over to quite the extent that people make it out to be), 3. any piece of advice that even a barely competent player won't fall for more than once in a great while.

That.

And This...

Kirk said:
Ike is terrible and you should feel terrible for even considering playing as him.

You know who you people are...

Stealth309 · Sep 29, 2008

Colaya, your sig and your avatar are full of pwnage and win. Vyse is one of the greatest video game characters known to man.

•Col• · Sep 29, 2008

Gheb_01 said:
Ike is certainly not underrated - on the contrary! Just look at his position on the tier list...an entire tier higher thanb Mario, despite being clearly the worse character...

^ These kinds post is exactly what this thread is about. Too bad I can't tell if it's meant as sarcasm or not though... :dizzy:

Stealth309 said:
Colaya, your sig and your avatar are full of pwnage and win. Vyse is one of the greatest video game characters known to man.

Wow, what a relevant and totally not off topic statement! /sarcasm :chuckle:

Anyway, yes-- Vyse is pretty much the epitome of awesome

YagamiLight · Sep 29, 2008

Rapid_Assassin said:
Here's why:

No one is going to think they have problems against Ike for these reasons. They'll probably never run into a good one. After playing a bunch of terrible Ikes, even ones that look like they might be OK but still suck, they're going to think "must be my character." (whether the character has an advantage or not is irrelevant) For the people who play against good Ikes a lot, they'll never have trouble with anyone else who plays the character. It's kind of hard for a lot of people to take him seriously when everyone they've run into with the character absolutely sucks.

Same thing could be said for almost anyone in the lower mid and bottom tiers, to be honest. You'd find one good one for every 20+ who suck.

So the matchup advice from random people tends to read something to the effect of: 1. don't get hit, 2. gimp him (usually good advice, but not many good players just let people gimp them over and over to quite the extent that people make it out to be), 3. any piece of advice that even a barely competent player won't fall for more than once in a great while.

This is almost entirely correct, but the thing is as follows: Ike (And Pit) are two of the characters who have a terrible reputation for being scrub magnets. One of them has a spammable projectile, the other is just super powerful. For other mid/lower characters, usually you'll see a better ratio of skilled to unskilled, as it takes some degree of game understanding to use said character (Take Ness, for example). For those, you won't find nearly as high of an amount of new players as Ike, so you wouldn't base your opinions on that.

Gheb_01 said:
Ike is certainly not underrated - on the contrary! Just look at his position on the tier list...an entire tier higher thanb Mario, despite being clearly the worse character...

Are you joking? Mario is terrible. Ike is good. There's quite a difference.

Steeler · Sep 29, 2008

yeah, arturo pointed out to me that ike is a defensive player in the ike v pt thread, which is good because i don't think ike has much of an approach.

i can kinda understand his defense due to ike's strength and range but...it's not that hard to get around for really quick and agile characters.

iMichael · Sep 29, 2008

YagamiLight said:
Are you joking? Mario is terrible.

Are you joking?

YagamiLight · Sep 29, 2008

Envy said:
Are you joking?

Am I? He's sub par in practically every category.

HeroMystic · Sep 29, 2008

YagamiLight said:
Are you joking? Mario is terrible. Ike is good. There's quite a difference.

You're barking up my alley, Light...

Don't play the hypocrite.

YagamiLight · Sep 29, 2008

HeroMystic said:
You're barking up my alley, Light...

Don't play the hypocrite.

I guess you do have a fair point. No need to insult other characters in any case.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that he's actually decent in edgeguarding, so I guess if you like caping recoveries and laughing at them, Mario is your guy.

HeroMystic · Sep 29, 2008

Mario has more than just the cape...

But this isn't the topic to discuss it in.

__V · Sep 29, 2008

Ike is slightly underrated. But really, why complain? Use this to your advantage.

Rykoshet · Sep 29, 2008

Ike is bad and you should feel bad

Kirk took my advice.

For the record, every matchup thread that mentions Ike automatically assumes that the character is incapable of shielding or dodging and will run headfirst into every move imaginable.

Honestly only the people who take ike seriously should talk **** about him, I have yet to find a person who goes "I'll **** on an ike" without a second thought that I havent taken or havent gone toe to toe with. It's the people who like the character or who realize that it isn't an easy matchup that I suddenly find trouble with.

And "defensive ability" isn't governed completely by owning a projectile, you try to get in on ike to land a killshot when he's playing defensive and by all means I hope you have a fun time doing it because the **** is NOT easy.

•Col• · Sep 29, 2008

HeroMystic said:
Mario has more than just the cape...

But this isn't the topic to discuss it in.

Yes... I wasn't trying to imply that Ike was better than Mario in my last post... I was just explaining how ignorant some people are...

He stated that Mario was much better than Ike as if it was some solid fact. It's clearly not, and it's most certainly debatable... He said it like it was a definite fact, when it was just his personal opinion.

Kirk said:
Ike is terrible and you should feel terrible for even considering playing as him.

Oh noooooooo... D:

I'm sorry, Kirk... ;_;

Ugh... Actually, I have a confession to make... Dx Recently, I've been more interested in Marth... I really do like Ike's playstyle, but I just don't feel confident with him anymore... Plus, Brawl Marth actually feels more like Roy was in Melee (Except with tippering, obviously...) Anyway, yeah... I did want to try and become serious with Ike, but now I just don't know anymore...

Junahu · Sep 29, 2008

I can't use Ike, but I certainly don't underestimate him either. A good Ike will eat my stock for breakfast, because it doesn't matter how long I projectile spam him, I'll eventually have to approach to get the KO. And good Ikes will always out mindgame me

By-the-way, Vyse is awsome, but Vyze is better. "Cutlass Wrath!" ftw

Kinzer · Sep 29, 2008

Colaya said:
Ugh... Actually, I have a confession to make... Dx Recently, I've been more interested in Marth... I really do like Ike's playstyle, but I just don't feel confident with him anymore... Plus, Brawl Marth actually feels more like Roy was in Melee (Except with tippering, obviously...) Anyway, yeah... I did want to try and become serious with Ike, but now I just don't know anymore...

No! Martha does need another fanboy following her! We need you!!

doom dragon 105 · Sep 29, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
Ike is a lot better at defensive than offensive I told steeler this in the PT vs Ike thread.

Anyways this thread is probably as bad as those Ike is broken threads. We either have an under rated character (which is actually awesome because when they come across an Ike who can actually play they don't know what to do) or an over rated character.

I'd take underestimated over overrated any day.

This, Ike as a defensive works alot better too bad no one plays like this lol, I'm in the process of, hes underestimated yea, but hes pretty bad too

xYz · Sep 29, 2008

lol ike is horrible in competitive play. he's awesome in casuals though. I'm sure you guys haven't seen a ike win a major tournament lately.

Rapid_Assassin · Sep 29, 2008

xYz said:
lol ike is horrible in competitive play. he's awesome in casuals though. I'm sure you guys haven't seen a ike win a major tournament lately.

Same could be said about any character other than MK these days though. Arguably Snake, DDD, GW too but that's all most people see ever.

•Col• · Sep 29, 2008

Junahu said:
By-the-way, Vyse is awsome, but Vyze is better. "Cutlass Wrath!" ftw

His name is Vize. And he's the main reason I got the game. >_> Once I fought against him though, he wasn't nearly as cool as I thought he'd be... xD

Rapid_Assassin said:
Same could be said about any character other than MK these days though. Arguably Snake, DDD, GW too but that's all most people see ever.

Very true... I mean... If Link can place in a tournament though.... Link.... LINK... The character that's towards the bottom of the low tier list... If he can place, than Ike certainly should be able to as well... >_>

(Also, I'm not trying to discredit Link or anything. He's an awesome character... And he has a very good moveset/AT's... His recovery is.... Yeah.... When you can be gimped by Captain Falcon, you know something's wrong... xD )

Not trying to discredit Cpt. Falcon either. He's awesome.

Guilhe · Sep 30, 2008

Scrub magnet huh?

YagamiLight said:
This is almost entirely correct, but the thing is as follows: Ike (And Pit) are two of the characters who have a terrible reputation for being scrub magnets. One of them has a spammable projectile, the other is just super powerful. For other mid/lower characters, usually you'll see a better ratio of skilled to unskilled, as it takes some degree of game understanding to use said character (Take Ness, for example). For those, you won't find nearly as high of an amount of new players as Ike, so you wouldn't base your opinions on that.

I used to main Pit when I bought the game, sometime later, I’ve migrated to Ike. Was I scrub and I didn’t know?

Kinzer · Sep 30, 2008

Well, nobody was an instant pro when they first got Brawl, of course we were all newbs back then...some of us might STILL be newbies. XD

LordoftheMorning · Sep 30, 2008

One good thing about Ike is that Lucario mains seem to love him! :chuckle:

Idk, he's got some really good punishers for predictable enemies. Rollers get owned by usmash. Retreating fair is good for SH approachers, eruption is good coming down. :chuckle:

Ike is not a noob character himself *glances at Pit* but he is an awesome noob-killer. Plus he's so fun to play.

Arturito_Burrito · Sep 30, 2008

What about cpu? he was an instant pro and even beat ken.

YagamiLight · Sep 30, 2008

Guilhe said:
I used to main Pit when I bought the game, sometime later, I’ve migrated to Ike. Was I scrub and I didn’t know?

I would not say that simply maining the character makes you a scrub, no. It's just that users of Ike and Pit are more likely to be scrubs than other characters. Just take a look at 'With Anyone' mode.

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