TWentt37
Smash Rookie
My Homie Kaseem plays as Ness And I play as Ike...I can beat him but I can't destroy him. any hints on beating a good Ness user 
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Ike vs Ness
- Thread starter TWentt37
- Start date
Ussi
Smash Legend
Well, if we knew what he was doing to you, we could tell you how to counter act it.
TWentt37
Smash Rookie
well he's a camper...he'll usually wait for me to attack and then start a series of pk fires, bat swings, back kicks, and that running a move where his pk attacks come out of his hands...that's about all he does the entire match but he's pretty good at it...
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Wall him with fair and nair, jab when he comes close, abuse your jab cancel, smack him when he's off stage, don't get above him, don't get close to him, don't get grabbed, and Counter his recovery.
FFMMCLXIV
Smash Apprentice
From what I remember from my matches with you, this is what you should focus on.
This shouldn't be too much of a problem. :D
TWentt37
Smash Rookie
ok i'll do that because getting above him was a big problem for me...and which meteor smash do you think is better to use in the heat of battle...the dair or the down a on the ground
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
lol, what's up? Think you can Brawl with me later on tonight? (not sure if I still have you on my list, because it's virtually full)From what I remember from my matches with you, this is what you should focus on.
Just to see how you've improved.
Yeah, the main idea is to use your aerials that go out and away from Ike the best (fair, nair, bair). He just has very good aerial movement, so you don't want to rely on something like dair to stop him.
As for meteors, dair is probably better overall, but in all honesty, it's better to run off the stage and footstool him (if you're above him) or fair him (if he's away). Both screw up his recovery on their own, and if he tries to PK Thunder beforehand, he'll either hit you with it or he'll still eat fair.
I gotta run for now. If there's anything else you want to know about Ness, let me know.
Ussi
Smash Legend
Dair is better to meteor smash people with, well its more easier to pull off.
When you get caught in PK fire, DI backwards so he can't grab you or hit you with fsmash in time. You can shield grab his bair (back kicks) most of the time but you'll get pushed back too. Retreating fair will stop his dash attack. Don't roll a lot and you won't roll into bat swings. Course be careful of Ness's fair, it's pretty ownage ;o
When you get caught in PK fire, DI backwards so he can't grab you or hit you with fsmash in time. You can shield grab his bair (back kicks) most of the time but you'll get pushed back too. Retreating fair will stop his dash attack. Don't roll a lot and you won't roll into bat swings. Course be careful of Ness's fair, it's pretty ownage ;o
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
The following hints are what I can give you after repeated matches (Like maybe in the 100s) against a very good Ness user (Colin). This was online, naturally, but we did have certainly playable matches:
- If he gets you past 120%, make sure not to get grabbed. You can also help your cause significantly by staying away from the edges. His Back Throw is the most powerful throw in the game, killing most characters at like 110%.
- Instead of throwing him, take advantage of the fact that by pummeling him repeatedly you get a guaranteed jab upon break. What you do with this is your choice.
- Fair off the stage will pretty much gimp Ness, but be careful when doing this. Messing up will get you hit by PKT2, and that kills at like 60%.
-If he tries to ledgecamp with PKT, go near him and Dtilt spike him.
- Don't get hit with PK Fire. Learn his animation and listen to the sound.
- Staying above him at high percents results in an Up Air kill, watch out for this.
- Stop a Dair approach with either Up Tilt or Up Smash. High up in the air, up air also works.
- I like Quick Draw in this match, as PK F has a significant lag animation, but only use it if you know how to QD properly.
-Use Nair as a protective wall, as Successor of Raphael already said.
That's all.
- If he gets you past 120%, make sure not to get grabbed. You can also help your cause significantly by staying away from the edges. His Back Throw is the most powerful throw in the game, killing most characters at like 110%.
- Instead of throwing him, take advantage of the fact that by pummeling him repeatedly you get a guaranteed jab upon break. What you do with this is your choice.
- Fair off the stage will pretty much gimp Ness, but be careful when doing this. Messing up will get you hit by PKT2, and that kills at like 60%.
-If he tries to ledgecamp with PKT, go near him and Dtilt spike him.
- Don't get hit with PK Fire. Learn his animation and listen to the sound.
- Staying above him at high percents results in an Up Air kill, watch out for this.
- Stop a Dair approach with either Up Tilt or Up Smash. High up in the air, up air also works.
- I like Quick Draw in this match, as PK F has a significant lag animation, but only use it if you know how to QD properly.
-Use Nair as a protective wall, as Successor of Raphael already said.
That's all.
Ussi
Smash Legend
10IkespummelingNess
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
1) I was referring to Ike being closer to the edges. It's 120% near the sides, 140% near the center.
2) It's actually closer to 45%-50% on Ike, but I was talking about the situation when Ness hits you with PKT2 near the ledge and it sends you to the opposite corner. This'll kill "late" at 60%.
3) Better to just not get hit by PK Fire at all, no?
Ussi
Smash Legend
Better to not get hit, but humans lack perfection and eventually Ness will do something right now.
Just mash away from Ike as you grab break to SDI the jab combo. You have plenty of time and you can avoid both the second and third hit. Also the research that AA and I did suggested that Ike isn't one of the characters that can force a ground break, but it happens nearly all of the time in practice. It's probably better to throw though, as Ness's chance of SDIing the first frame of jab 1 hitlag is pretty high.
Don't use Quick Draw against Ness when he is idle or he can just send pk thunder along the ground toward you, and no matter what you do you get hit by it at that point.
I feel this is Ness's advantage mostly because of pk thunder forcing Ike to approach (and camp on some stages, even briefly like obnoxiously spamming pk thunder as the platform retreats on smashville... lots of stages have specific ways to annoy Ike). It's a small advantage though.
Don't use Quick Draw against Ness when he is idle or he can just send pk thunder along the ground toward you, and no matter what you do you get hit by it at that point.
I feel this is Ness's advantage mostly because of pk thunder forcing Ike to approach (and camp on some stages, even briefly like obnoxiously spamming pk thunder as the platform retreats on smashville... lots of stages have specific ways to annoy Ike). It's a small advantage though.
Ussi
Smash Legend
When Ness tries to gimp you with PKT, JUMP INTO IT!!! It'll bring you back to the stage.
other wise when you see him PK thunder, he might fake it into a PKT2, have counter ready ;O
If PK thunder comes from above, QD towards Ness, if it comes right at you, jab it.
If you're gonna SDI the jab, we'll jab to nair/fair
other wise when you see him PK thunder, he might fake it into a PKT2, have counter ready ;O
If PK thunder comes from above, QD towards Ness, if it comes right at you, jab it.
If you're gonna SDI the jab, we'll jab to nair/fair
Most of the time you won't be able to SDI as early as possible, allowing for follow ups via jab cancelling. Grab release -> jab is so telegraphed that you have a good chance of SDIing on the first possible frame, and no follow up is going to be possible.
If Ness is going to use pk thunder to edge guard he is going to send it at an angle so that it stage spikes you if you hit it, not help you get back to the stage.
Counter is a bad response to pk thunder 2 for two reasons: Counter has slow activation, and pk thunder 2 is invincible for the first half the distance, and counter doesn't work against moves with invincibility. The best case result of countering pk thunder 2 is that Ness goes through you unharmed. The pay off for such a risky maneuver is low.
If Ness is going to use pk thunder to edge guard he is going to send it at an angle so that it stage spikes you if you hit it, not help you get back to the stage.
Counter is a bad response to pk thunder 2 for two reasons: Counter has slow activation, and pk thunder 2 is invincible for the first half the distance, and counter doesn't work against moves with invincibility. The best case result of countering pk thunder 2 is that Ness goes through you unharmed. The pay off for such a risky maneuver is low.
Ussi
Smash Legend
well, that's only the first half of PKT2, the 2nd half is still open. And 10 frames may be slow for a counter move, but we see PKT2 coming... if you're getting that close you're better of shielding.
And I said jump into it for a reason, you purposely jump into it so he doesn't hit you with the tails. And I have yet to get hit by PKT that made me go into the stage that wasn't by the tails.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
PKT2 is slow. You can see it coming. The fastest you can get it to work is like 18 frames (which is about how long it takes for PKT to come out, so really, the fastest possible speed is 18 frames, + however long you spend to hit Ness with it). That's plenty of reaction time. If Ness is using it that close to you (and mind you, going off the stage and using Counter was NOT what I was implying, at all), you can Counter it and recover from it before Ness can even do anything to you (since it's at the beginning of PKT2 and he still needs to travel) or you can just get out of the way... or you can try to intercept it, but really, there's nothing wrong with Counter.
Intercepting it at the non-invincible part is perfectly fine and it deals 20%+.
FFMMCLXIV
Smash Apprentice
^I'm inclined to agree with the slowness...I haven't seen a situation where Ness gets that close and has the chance to start a PKT2 before Ike hits him.
Just relayed all this info to him over the phone; he'll probably be back with some more questions tomorrow.
Haha, I was talking to the OP, I know him irl. *points to location* I don't think I've ever brawled with you, but I'd be happy to sometime on the weekends.lol, what's up? Think you can Brawl with me later on tonight? (not sure if I still have you on my list, because it's virtually full)
Just to see how you've improved.
Just relayed all this info to him over the phone; he'll probably be back with some more questions tomorrow.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
You haven't? I thought I saw you on friend finder or something, lol.
FFMMCLXIV
Smash Apprentice
You wouldn't remember a Brawl with me anyway, unless it was for sheer domination. Actually haven't even popped in Brawl in about a month, but there's a money tournament November 1st that's the primary motive behind my buddy's thread here, and I figured I'd get back in on it.
He's a very unique Ike; I haven't heard of anyone knowledgeable about the game that hasn't said something to that effect after brawling him. And I sure as heck can't beat him without a little luck. :D
Actually haven't even popped in Brawl in about a month, but there's a money tournament November 1st that's the primary motive behind my buddy's thread here, and I figured I'd get back in on it.He's a very unique Ike; I haven't heard of anyone knowledgeable about the game that hasn't said something to that effect after brawling him. And I sure as heck can't beat him without a little luck. :D
TWentt37
Smash Rookie
True True...supposedly i don't play Ike like anyone else and it takes a little while for people to get used to my style so i'm hoping that is on my side for tournaments
Thanks for all the advice and hints i'll be sure to use them
I have another general question should you try to juggle Ness or try going all ground fighting besides spikes, and such...oh and is aether a good move to use on a character his size...how about ftilt is that a good move to use? thanks in advance for the tips
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Juggling Ness... uh, maybe at low %s, but honestly, he moves too quickly in the air and has too many quick aerials for you to really take that option too often. You need to play anti-air with him.
Aether works.
ftilt seems to be good all the time, to me.
Do you want any practice?
Aether works.
ftilt seems to be good all the time, to me.
Do you want any practice?
TWentt37
Smash Rookie
Yeah i just wanted to know if I should that the chance with juggling or just play it safe
Thanks for the offer but my interent is off at my house right now cus i'm moving so i can't brawl online but after i get set up i'll be sure to hit you up on that offer
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Well I definitely say play it safe. All of his aerials are pretty strong and he can string quite a few of them together.
TWentt37
Smash Rookie
yeah i've dealt with those combos during gameplay and they're kinda hard to get out of...oh and what moves are good to use against people who roll a lot I usually use the dsmash but sometimes that doesn't work to well
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Usmash, Usmash, Usmash.
That move seems to be the absolute best roll punisher, and it seems to work on spotdodging, too.
That move seems to be the absolute best roll punisher, and it seems to work on spotdodging, too.
FFMMCLXIV
Smash Apprentice
Now I gotta start a Mario vs. Ike thread.
TWentt37
Smash Rookie
True I use that a lot i just haven't tried it for that in particular...would nair be good or is the range way too small
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
If he's rolling into you, I say that nair works. If he's rolling behind you... maybe, but that's a blindspot to Ike if he misses, because I *think* SH-bair would pass right over Ness. if not, then you have a very strict time limit, because for all of its faults, Ness's ground game is rather quick.
Ussi
Smash Legend
if he rolls, if its TOO obvious, FSMASH!! If you know he's gonna roll or spotdodge, reverse usmash or plain usmash, if you want a 2nd attack in case you miss the first, dsmash. Nair is great for CHASING rolls.
TWentt37
Smash Rookie
Ok so could you chase rolls with nair then go fair when they get cornered
yea i was working on sh bair and the good thing about it is that the sword kind of tilts when you do it so it can still hit ness...well if you time it right at least
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Matchup numbers? 5-5?
55-45 for Ness or Ike?
6-4 for Ness or Ike?
7-3 for Ness, Ike or MK???
55-45 for Ness or Ike?
6-4 for Ness or Ike?
7-3 for Ness, Ike or MK???
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
55:45 Ness... or 50:50.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
50:50 most likely.