inescapable combo on 10 characters (thoroughly tested on a human player)

Zeallyx · Oct 26, 2008

Credit goes to face124 for testing it with me

video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VPyvRRR8cdc

The combo: SH sweetspot knee (knee immediatly after jumping, so it has no landing lag)>jab>jab>multiple jabs (or a grab offcourse)
it works from 0-10 percent
this combo is performed on opponents who are standing on the ground

Characters it works on:
Bowser
DK
Ganondorf
Samus(hard)
King Dedede(hard)
Captain Falcon(hard)
Charizard
Marth
Ike(im not sure how difficult)
Snake(medium)

the following results were found on basic brawls with damage ratio on 1.0 and with absolutely no damage or knockback depreciation:

Bowser:
If you DI *insert direction* from the first Knee then away from Falcon for the jab:
Upwards from the knee: 40.6% average damage.
Downwards from the knee: 38.6% average damage.
Away from the knee: 33% average
I've not bothered to include DI towards Falcon because no-one is that stupid. Its about 42% though.

33% doesn't sound that good really, but don't worry. This would require incredible reflexes or incredible prediction, and that prediction would probably only occur against people you play regularly. This one is (IMO) more accurately how much damage you are likely to do

Bowser:
If you have no DI after the knee but DI *insert direction* while he is using his jab:
Upwards from the Jab: 38.3%
Away from the Jab: 38%
Downwards from the jab: 39.6%
I've not bothered to include DI towards Falcon because again, no-one is that stupid. Its about 46% though.

Ganondorf:
If you DI *insert direction* from the first Knee then away from Falcon for the jab:
Upwards from the knee: still to test.
Downwards from the knee: still to test.
Away from the knee: 34% average.

If you have no DI after the knee but DI *insert direction* while he is using his jab:
Upwards from the Jab: still to test
Away from the Jab: 37%
Downwards from the jab: still to test

Remember this will be constantly updated with more results when Face124 and I get the time to test it.

__V · Oct 26, 2008

I love you. Marry me?

YesISpeakChinese · Oct 26, 2008

haha nice.. but its annoying that you HAVE to do it from 0-10%
this is good but i think there will be very few instances to do it with such a small window for the f-air =/

Noodlehead · Oct 26, 2008

hmm.nice find. this seems useful but it might be hard to pull out in a game since it only works up to 10%

edit:lol didnt read title

Zeallyx · Oct 26, 2008

__V said:
I love you. Marry me?

and you haven't even bought me a drink XD
but thanks

CaptainPlatypus · Oct 26, 2008

Nice find. The 0-10% will probably be annoying, but it should still be useful.

Blaze924 · Oct 26, 2008

nice find, but an early knee is hard to pull off, especially at 0, btw you named bowser twice in the descriptions

Edit-forget it, i read it over

Mit · Oct 26, 2008

Doesn't seem like anything noteworthy really. When trying to rack up damage, the first thing you do isn't to typically go for knees... As you usually don't ever get them off. And yeah, your opponent has to be tall or in the air to even hit them with a SH knee.

Also, try looking for better things to do out of that knee than just the jab combo, like say a grab or utilt, although I assume you've already tried these things, and I'm guessing your opponent could air-dodge or land in that time.

Zeallyx · Oct 26, 2008

Mit said:
Doesn't seem like anything noteworthy really. When trying to rack up damage, the first thing you do isn't to typically go for knees... As you usually don't ever get them off. And yeah, your opponent has to be tall or in the air to even hit them with a SH knee.

Also, try looking for better things to do out of that knee than just the jab combo, like say a grab or utilt, although I assume you've already tried these things, and I'm guessing your opponent could air-dodge or land in that time.

exactly, when racking up damage a knee may be unexpected or at least worth the try on the characters where it combo's into a jab>jab>grab
one can use the sh sweetspot knee>grab, but I'd rather jab first :D

Z1GMA · Oct 26, 2008

Nice find... my question is:
Can you Knee -> Falcon dive?

or maybe Knee -> Knee?

RubixCubix08 · Oct 26, 2008

You can do that with almost every character, except the small ones.

It doesn't have to be a sweet-spot knee. You can do a 2-jab into a grab after that. That's what I've said from the start; Captain Falcon's knee is still very useful.

Zeallyx · Oct 26, 2008

Z1GMA said:
Nice find... my question is:
Can you Knee -> Falcon dive?

or maybe Knee -> Knee?

knee falcon dive may be possible but unfortunatly I doubt it, I'll try it tommorrow though

but knee>knee can't be done, the second knee is too slow I guess..

and to trubixcubix, the flubbed knee>jab was known yes, this (I guess from the responses) the sweetspotted one is new

and the sweetspot knee>jab can only be done on the chars listed (chars like lucario and peach aren't small and they still can't be sweetspot knee>jab'd)

Edit: it just popped into my mind that zelda/sheik may be sweetspot knee>jab-able, we should test it on them face124 :D

illinialex24 · Oct 26, 2008

If only this could be knee to falcon punch... Then I would use Falcon...

RubixCubix08 · Oct 26, 2008

Yea, I didn't know it possible to sweet spot and do a combo with. Good find nonetheless.

Oh, and also, can you try one out for me? Try a flubbed knee > Dair. Some knee's make them trip, giving you a chance to do that. I've done it once.

Zeallyx · Oct 26, 2008

RubixCubix08 said:
Yea, I didn't know it possible to sweet spot and do a combo with. Good find nonetheless.

Oh, and also, can you try one out for me? Try a flubbed knee > Dair. Some knee's make them trip, giving you a chance to do that. I've done it once.

yeah I'll try it for you

although I guess they can roll away..

illinialex24 · Oct 26, 2008

Can you do this to a B-side while still in the air and then reverse falcon punch if they foolishly neutral up??

Zeallyx · Oct 26, 2008

illinialex24 said:
Can you do this to a B-side while still in the air and then reverse falcon punch if they foolishly neutral up??

no, unfortunatly one can't do anything till you land after the knee

OmegaXF · Oct 26, 2008

Now if there was a way to guarantee the Knee at that % Captain Popo might regain some of his Mojo back...

legion598 · Oct 26, 2008

knee>jabs>grab>dthrow>nair>land>jump> double knee :D

illinialex24 · Oct 26, 2008

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
no, unfortunatly one can't do anything till you land after the knee

Great, I guess I'm not using Falcon... except to knee really bad people for fun.

Psychoace · Oct 27, 2008

This might pose useful on battlefield or something.

Face124 · Oct 27, 2008

Everyone should bear in mind that Falcon lands after the knee no matter what. That means no aerials after the knee, and I think SH aerials would be to slow. we've tried every tilt after the knee on Bowser, but they were all to slow. Falcon dive is a possibility.

_voRg__ · Oct 27, 2008

this will be very useful when people work out how to knee! 111

xXArrowXx · Oct 27, 2008

@_@ knee is hard enough to hit by itself.. @_@

Crzy · Oct 27, 2008

Not on Bowser, DK, or DDD.

You practically get free knees in haha.

Face124 · Oct 27, 2008

unfortunately, knee to dive is escapable, and to our current understanding, only jab and grab work after the knee.

Zeallyx · Oct 27, 2008

face124 and I tested if sh knee without landing lag can combo into an up b, but unfortunatly it is escapable

so far only sh knee>jab/grab is inescapable

edit: oh sorry

face already posted it

Noodlehead · Oct 27, 2008

Face124 said:
unfortunately, knee to dive is escapable, and to our current understanding, only jab and grab work after the knee.

are you talking about sweetspooted knee? i know flubbed knee>falcon dive s a true combo at a certain %

Zeallyx · Oct 27, 2008

Noodlehead said:
are you talking about sweetspooted knee? i know flubbed knee>falcon dive s a true combo at a certain %

yes we mean sh sweetspot knee (lagless landing)>up b is escapapeble

Phlemingo · Oct 27, 2008

Wouldn't this combo be better if after the one jab you did another SH knee?

Zeallyx · Oct 27, 2008

Phlemingo said:
Wouldn't this combo be better if after the one jab you did another SH knee?

but there is no way that what you said is inescapable..

Phlemingo · Oct 27, 2008

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
but there is no way that what you said is inescapable..

Have you tried it?

Zeallyx · Oct 27, 2008

Phlemingo said:
Have you tried it?

dude a jab doesn't combo into a sh knee..

Wogrim · Oct 28, 2008

I tested jab and NAir first hit to SH knee (and Smashes) ages ago and didn't find any that work.

Iwan · Oct 28, 2008

Shame this is so situational....also I'm pretty sure Key posted this a while ago....albeit not as in depth (just description). Approaching with the knee usually leads to punishment though.

On a side note...Hi guys :D

haha.

Zeallyx · Oct 28, 2008

Iwan said:
Shame this is so situational....also I'm pretty sure Key posted this a while ago....albeit not as in depth (just description). Approaching with the knee usually leads to punishment though.

On a side note...Hi guys :D

haha.

I'm pretty sure this is new, because the regular posters here (atleast the one I see here often) say it is new

#HBC | Mac · Oct 28, 2008

this not tht big of a deal actually, it's really similar to the knee-grab combos in melee.

Zeallyx · Oct 28, 2008

Macman said:
this not tht big of a dead actually, it's really similar to the knee-grab combos in melee.

well I think it's quite usefull XD
especially against bowser/DK/DDD

#HBC | Mac · Oct 28, 2008

i agree that it's useful, I just didn't see why it required its own thread.
But thanks for the info anyways.
=D

Noodlehead · Oct 28, 2008

Iwan said:
Shame this is so situational....also I'm pretty sure Key posted this a while ago....albeit not as in depth (just description). Approaching with the knee usually leads to punishment though.

On a side note...Hi guys :D

haha.

ToKneeOrNotToKnee said:
I'm pretty sure this is new, because the regular posters here (atleast the one I see here often) say it is new

i think this could be old. didnt know about it though. all of the posters from when brawl came out just left, so it probably is old but you brought it back up for all the new brawlers.

inescapable combo on 10 characters (thoroughly tested on a human player)

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