The Mario vs Everyone Else Q&A Thread

This has been burning in my head quite a few days. We just do not seem to have a solid thread that lets us know what we (the Mario mains) should do against other characters in our match-up threads and guides. This has lead me to believe that, if we're in the heat of battle and cornered against the ropes against a worthy opponent, then there's practically nothing but frustration going on our heads.

This thread is here to try and prevent that to the best of it's ability. Basically, one person asks a question, mainly a scenario between him/herself vs another opponent, and we give our experienced advice about it.

Note that this is not a true Q&A thread, this is strictly about fighting against other characters and utilizing Mario's techniques. If you have any questions such as the usual "How can you use FLUDD in battle", refer to the stickies, and if you still have a question, ask it there. [/shameless promotion]

I'll be updating this post with questions asked and categorizing them by their pertaining characters. As such, make sure you check to see if your question has already been answered.

Questions Asked

:random: General Questions

I can't avoid taking massive damage when I try to get back from the ledge!

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Best Answer: Mario doesn't have a lot of options when forced to the ledge. Use your options and mix them up. Keep your opponents guessing

Other Answers:
-You can ledge drop > DJ > Fireball your way back onto stage and also protect yourself that way.
-Use cape stall to annoy your opponents and get them close.
-If your opponents are close enough, you can ledge drop > U-air > Up-B.
-You can also Wall-jump > B-air your way back on stage. It works for all stages except for Defino Plaza and Halberd.

I can't land my Smash attacks to kill!

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Best Answer: Don't go out of your way to land a kill move. That leaves you open to take a beating yourself. Mindgame your way into an F-Smash or use it to punish an attack. When an opening arises, you'll see it.

Other Answers:
-At 150% and beyond just about anything can kill. You don't always have to use a Smash attack to kill. Throwing them off stage and KOing with an aerial works just as well as landing a Smash attack onstage.

Falco

How do you generally kill Falco?

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Best Answer: His recovery is very gimpable by Mario specifically, and a good Falco would know this. Use FLUDD to harm his Side-B. If you kill him, good. If he manages to land back on stage, you can still kill him with fresh smash attack. Of course, if he avoids this completely, then rinse and repeat.

Other Answers:
-If he goes for the ledge, edgehog him or try to intercept with FLUDD by aiming downward.
-Beat the hell out of him.
-Mindgame F-Smash onto him.
-Edgeguarding always work, but do try to not get hit by his Side-B.

Game and Watch

How do you get inside G&W's defenses?

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Best Answer: Nair, it comes out faster than any of G&W's aerials. Also, Mario's jab is faster than anything G&W has on the ground. G&W can also be easily pressured toward the ledge on the ground by the FLUDD. Fireballs work well against G&W if you use them without being too predictable, also G&W's bucket has enough lag to get a Dsmash on him. Playing defensively works well against G&W most of the time but if you feel forced to approach just carefully use fireballs and Nairs.

Other Answers:
-You can also sort of approach G&W with the FLUDD but it requires good spacing to avoid getting hit out of it.
-if all else fails use your Up B to break through his defenses.
-Use FLUDD on G&W if he's approaching. It can lead to openings.
-You can DI out of G&W's multi-hit attacks rather easily. This can lead to punishment.




Ike

How do you get around Ike's jabs?

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Best Answer: If you're caught in Ike's jabs, DI diagonally upwards and towards him, then use Up-B. It should break through his jab combo. If he jab cancels, you won't have to DI.

Other Answers:
-Try to bait him and use B-air to counter his jabs.
-Shield Dash and then use Up-B OOS.
-Fireball approach to distract him.

How do you get past Ike's pressure from the ledge?

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Best Answer: When recovering, avoid the ledge completely. DI upward when you're knocked off, then fireball-spam your way back to the stage. Quickly make your way back to the middle of the stage once you're back on.

Other Answers:
-If you're stuck on the ledge, don't rush in. Cape stall at the ledge and wait for Ike to slip up, then get back on and quickly retaliate.

Luigi

How do you contest Luigi's Aerial Game?

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Best Answer: Luigi has better reach and more power in his aerials, but Mario's are faster. Use this to your advantage and mix up your aerials, and know when to expect Luigi's broken N-air.

Other Answers:
-Shield-grab his aerials and follow up with your own aerials.
-Use fireballs during your aerial combat to create openings.
-Use the cape to mess up Luigi's spacing method.
-FLUDD is extremely effective due to Luigi's low horizontal movement in the air and due to FIHL. Use it to create openings.

Metaknight

How to you fight against Metaknight's Tornado?

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Best Answer: The perfect way is to use Up-B Out of Shield.

Other Answers:
-Cape it to reverse it's momentum.
-Fireballs stop a grounded tornado and can travel over the tornado to hit Metaknight himself.
-Use FLUDD to kill a grounded tornado. Not very effective against an aerial one however.

Olimar

How do you approach a very campy Olimar?

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Best Answer: You don't. You wait until they get bored. (Courtesy of Monk)

Other Answers: If you get bored first, just use FLUDD to push him off the edge, then commence to beat him down.

Snake

How do you approach Snake?

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Best Answer: Do not challenge his range. Stay patient, fireball often to annoy him, and wait for an opening. Also apply the options from the "Other Answers".

Other answers:
-Fireball approach.
-Attack him while he's busy with grenades or the nikita.
-Mindgame him by baiting attacks and shield-dashing. If you're close enough, an Up-B OOS will work.
-Use FLUDD/FIHL to mess up his proper spacing and to create an opening.
-Cape/Cape Jump his attacks to mess up his spacing method then attack from there.

How do you properly edgeguard Snake?

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Best Answer: Cape his 2nd jump. Doing so will shift his momentum away from the stage when he uses his Up-B. If he tries to drift back to the stage, FLUDD him and he shouldn't be able to make it back depending on how high he was.

Other answers:
-Use aerials (mainly a B-air WOP) and keep him off stage to continously rack up damage.
-Use Cape Glide to close the gap and FLUDD him to kill his momentum since Snake's Cypher relies on it.

Sonic

What's the best way to gimp Sonic?

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Best Answer: It's hard to gimp a good Sonic, but WOP him with B-airs and try to make sure that he can't Up-B high above the stage. If he's forced to drift to the stage, FLUDD him, then edgehog him when he's forced to go for the ledge.

Other answers:
-Try to fireball him when he's about to use his Up-B and spike him

How do you punish Sonic's D-air?

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Best Answer: Just space yourself and punish from there. Sonic's D-air has plenty of ending lag to get off an F-Smash or D-Smash

Other Answers:
-FLUDD his D-air to halt his momentum so you can get off an aerial.


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Let's get this ball rolling, shall we?

Should we start with a certain character? Great idea btw, though I'm not really surprised at this point.

If not, my question is what's the best way to approach Snake? And what's the proper way to edgeguard him?

Matador said:

Should we start with a certain character? Great idea btw, though I'm not really surprised at this point.

If not, my question is what's the best way to approach Snake? And what's the proper way to edgeguard him?

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I have a friend who mains Snake, and in my experience a good thing to approach him with is fireballs...also, as far as edgeguarding is concerned, try to hit him with the cape before he uses his Up-B, because if you cape him while he's using it, he will be able to use it again

Matador said:

Should we start with a certain character?

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It's anything goes. Not really worth limiting the thread. Although... you did gave me an idea.

Instead of FAQs, I'll categorize the questions asked by characters. That seems to be a better for the thread's purpose.

As for the question, approaching Snake is no easy task indeed, but there's quite a few ways to approach him without easily getting knocked away.

-One way is to simply catch him off-guard, like if he's busy trying to chuck a grenade. Approaching quickly with a SH U-air can get you there in time.
-If you know Snake's F-tilt range, another way is to bait an attack from if you get too close. A Shielded dash can do the trick since Snake's 2nd hit on the F-tilt is punishable on block. Faking an approach from the air can also bait aerial-happy Snakes with his (quite sexy) Nair.
-While not as effective in the match, you will always have the tried and true Fireball approach.

Baseballfan already answered how to properly edgeguard him, but I'd also like to try to test the Snake player's knowledge by caping his Up-B anyways. If he uses Up-B again, well, no problem. But he doesn't know about it, free kills for you.

What About My thread hero?

Don't worry, yours is 'hard-to-beat' scenarios. These are just scenarios in general. Both threads can co-exist, it's just that some other players could have trouble with some of the easier stuff, like how to edgeguard Snake.

HeroMystic said:

Don't worry, yours is 'hard-to-beat' scenarios. These are just scenarios in general. Both threads can co-exist, it's just that some other players could have trouble with some of the easier stuff, like how to edgeguard Snake.

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Okay, but aparantly punishing MK's GA is easy shiz too.
Adding to the actual discussion, most good snakes use the Up+b immediatley after their second jump, so the timing has to be perfect, They also start pretty far off the stage, so it is hard to reach them in time (capeGliding FTW?) I'd say its safer to simply bair them to death

HeroMystic said:

-One way is to simply catch him off-guard, like if he's busy trying to chuck a grenade. Approaching quickly with a SH U-air can get you there in time.

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Tried this and SH dair yesterday. I ended up grabbing his grenade as he rolled and being punished while I was trying to toss it.

The reason for these questions is that I was fighting a pretty bad Snake yesterday, but he beat me a few times with simple tactics I didn't know how to respond to. I could handle the shieldgrabing and mortar sliding, but approaching became a task in itself. His tilts and jabs have too much range and priority. Aerial approaches risk Utilt and Nair.

HeroMystic said:

-If you know Snake's F-tilt range, another way is to bait an attack from if you get too close. A Shielded dash can do the trick since Snake's 2nd hit on the F-tilt is punishable on block. Faking an approach from the air can also bait aerial-happy Snakes with his (quite sexy) Nair.

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Punishable with what? He always gets time to move again whenever I block it. I can't dashgrab or turn around and jab or anything.

I do the Nair thing though, some Snakes love it too much

HeroMystic said:

-While not as effective in the match, you will always have the tried and true Fireball approach.

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The problem is that this is ALL I had. I couldnt run in and shield because I didn't know what to punish his Ftilt and Utilt with since the ending lag isn't really that big. Aerial approaches were dangerous as well.

HeroMystic said:

Baseballfan already answered how to properly edgeguard him, but I'd also like to try to test the Snake player's knowledge by caping his Up-B anyways. If he uses Up-B again, well, no problem. But he doesn't know about it, free kills for you.

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Most Snakes DJ and upB practically at the same time to get more vertical momentum, so the timing for that is kinda difficult. I'll try it tho, thanks.

Matador said:

Tried this and SH dair yesterday. I ended up grabbing his grenade as he rolled and being punished while I was trying to toss it.

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Try other aerials then. As said before, I suggest U-air because not only is it quick, but also because it has a nice amount of range and can be combo'd into. D-air is better for shield pressure and punishing spot dodges.

If the Snake player likes to roll and drop grenades, just predict and punish with a B-air.

Punishable with what? He always gets time to move again whenever I block it. I can't dashgrab or turn around and jab or anything.

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Depends how close you are. As redundant as it sounds, you can Up-B OOS. You can also jab or F-tilt (which has a bit more range).

At the farthest range though, I personally use Dash attack and it has worked for me quite a bit. Try it and see how that works for you.

On another note, at the tournament I was in (Doubles), I was paired against a campy snake. (My partner was handling a Marth). Like you, I couldn't get close, so at one point I used FLUDD and pushed him off the stage. He ended up N-airing himself to his death.

Although it's hard to replicate that scenario, I can confidentially say that FLUDD is good against campy Snakes that rely on spacing, and if they jab or F-air and get caught in FIHL, that can give you the approach needed to get in and ****.

viparagon said:

Adding to the actual discussion, most good snakes use the Up+b immediatley after their second jump, so the timing has to be perfect, They also start pretty far off the stage, so it is hard to reach them in time (capeGliding FTW?) I'd say its safer to simply bair them to death

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Thing is for any Snake in general, you have exploit the weakness of the Up-B: It's slow as hell and heavily relies on momentum. That means you can't let up the pressure. So yes, that pretty much means you have to cape glide at full velocity outta there and wreck him with either the cape or your aerials. I bet doing a Cape-Glide > FLUDD could even stop that momentum needed to make it back to the stage.

EDIT: This thread can handle multiple questions at once. Feel free to ask if you have something on your mind.

Alright, sounds good Hero. Much obliged.

Yeah, against characters that have good horizontal range, but not too much area of effect, I find that Mario's dash attack works out great. Unless I'm mistaken horribly, it often looks like he slides right under some peoples attacks. It's a good attack to get momentum going or make an opening. Mario can not exist on fireballs alone.

I just thought of something...Cape as an attack vs Snake. All it has to do is hit one of his crazy long hitboxes since they're not disjointed...and he turns around...It's also alot faster than most of his attacks...and that alone deals with the approach problem...

Genius? I think so.

Cape for the win??

Can be a good way to use Cape Jump.

We'll need to see it in practice though before I can add it as the (best?) answer.

The main thing with Snake is do not challenge him. He has the larger hitboxes and priority.

For approaching, Just pace yourself in a safe fashion. Caping his moves leaves him wide open and predictable. Fludd is very nice to use on a slight regular basis as well. Since all Snake does is fatty around the stage anyway. Fireball often. You need to restrict him as best you can, if anything the fireballs will just raise up some % on him. He's a heavy one.

A extra; Snake has this semi infinite Dthrow grab thing going on though. They pretty much predict your only few possible choices, which can be a huge problem at times. Ive no idea how to get out safetly against this. Since he'll either regrab you or shield Ftilt/Utilt, since he's waiting, watching your reaction after the Dthrow.


For edgegaurding. If he recovers high via Cypher, (which alot of Snakes do) There's nothing you can do to edgaurd. But wait and predict. It's alot safer for Snake to upB, go high, the fall back onto the stage, since all they'd have to do then is plop a c4, chuck a grenade, then Fast fall/evade, or whatever, whatever.

Snake's the most versatile character. Too many options. And alot of methods on using grenades.

doesn't only asking questions about match ups kinda defeat the purpous of Boss's thread?

Very true...but that thread may be inactive for awhile since Boss is probably sleeping like a baby from the meds.

BO X7 said:

doesn't only asking questions about match ups kinda defeat the purpous of Boss's thread?

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This isn't a thread about match-ups. It's about what Mario mains have trouble with given the scenario. Boss and Vato's match-up threads are safe since they're character comparisons giving the pros and cons of each character.

This thread is used to help with situations against other characters.

oh ok that makes sense.

DDD grabs you.....what do you do?

Hope that you're at the edge of the stage or platform.

vato_break said:

DDD grabs you.....what do you do?

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Hope you're playing a person that is against infinities.

Let's try to ask questions that Mario can have control over.

What's the best way to gimp Sonic and punish his dair?

The cape restores his spring and iirc FLUDD makes him go higher. I try to meteorsmash him out of whatever he's doing and it has a high success rate against computers and even more so whenever one of my friends picks Sonic for lulz, but against some better Sonic players I doubt it would be as reliable.

His dair I'm mainly asking about because I couldn't seem to punish it with Peach when I was in an online tourney and I actually ended up losing the match vs. the Sonic player, side b hop to bair and I was out. (I won the set of 3, but it's sort of irrelevant.)

um, run to the side where he'll land and hit him for his d air?

Fludd his Dair. It'll stop halt his momentum giving you some time to punish him. If they didn't sweetspot the edge and already used their upb and is free falling, go for a fludd. Usually i'd just gtfo, space myself where hes about to land his dair and punish him from there

I might as well paticipate.

Is there anyway around Ike's jabs? Its the only problem i have against him.

up b OOS? srsly thats the best i can think of. maybe up b itself would work but idk. just space yourself.

Veggi said:

What's the best way to gimp Sonic

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B-air wall him and try to make sure he can't spring high above the stage. Once he's drifting to the stage, FLUDD him and make it so he has to go for the ledge, then edgehog him.

Unfortunately though this is kinda rare as a good Sonic won't be getting gimped.

and punish his dair?

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Move out of it's range then punish it. I like to use either an F-Smash (for the kill) or D-smash (quick punisher).

You can also shield it then do Up-B OOS, or Shield grab.

Is there anyway around Ike's jabs? Its the only problem i have against him.

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Ike's jabs are pretty much hard to get around for any character with low range. The fireball approach is pretty much your best bet, but I tend to shield dash it since the jabs aren't like Snake's F-tilts. You can also B-air it for baiting.

If you're caught in the jabs, DI towards Ike and upwards, then use Up-B, and Mario should be able to use Up-B before Ike can get his last jab off. If he tries to cancel it you can just Up-B without the DI (recommended to move towards him anyway for maximum damage).

The best way to combat Ikes jab combo is to either UpB right when you think he's about to jab, or roll out the way. Otherwise Once the first one gets you, the other two will follow suit nicely. That's the way I see it. Jab cancels, i'm pretty sure are very easy to get out of.


I have one question.

1) Against a offensively campy Olimar, what's the safest approach to use? Or better yet, what is a nice mindgame string to break him out of his, await and punish mentality? Even if it's just long enough to get a few licks in.

The only approach that works for me is fireballs, running in after them and evading, if he doesnt do a laggy move or grab that I'm able to punish, i'm right back at square one. Olimar has a campy answer for everything honestly. It's to the point where i'm even considering maining him against nonprojectile characters. He's just that good. Grab game is sick, long range, pivot grabs, grab setup strings at low %.

He throws Pikmin just enough to say F you, make the first move. (Cape just reflects them back, they dont latch on him as he thew them awkwardly) His recovery sucks if you hold the edge on him, but that's like a scratch on a diamond to be honest, everything else he has is nice. And all he has to do is sit there and try to make you do the fist laggy, punishable mistakemove..

I tried to incorportate fludd at times, but if he isnt at the edge of the stage it's just going to bring you back to square one again. Can't fludd any moves of his, because he never attacks. Only attacks after a grab throw, he'll try to connect with another follow up move. Which is usually where I come in, attempting to connect attacks. But he just goes into Evade and retreat mode afterwards.

Dair, does get some licks in, when used wisely. But, then the main #1 problem arises. It's hard to get a KO in on Olimar. Unless you get in a Dsmash, cape or fludd him while he's recovering, then Hold the edge. Which is very effective. It's just getting him to that % point which arises the problems.

My opinion is the stages Apparently. Only thing that could possibly mess up a good Olimar. Pick brinstar, battlefield or something. Rainbow Cruise even I guess. Since his jumps suck. But uh, all he has to do is ban his hard one I guess.

Aditional;

I've watched some Mario vs Olimar vids on youtube, in the hopes to get some ideas in, but the Olimars that I saw, do not compare to anything like this. Not saying they suck, but yes. They do have the Olimar camp all wrong. Or maybe they are older vids when Olimars creativity far as metagame, wasnt that good.

I don't have that much experience against aggresive/campy Olimars. All I can really say is that to pay attention to his pikmin order. I ALWAYS rush in when there is a white pikmin. I stay back when there is a purple, yellow, or red. I aerial approach the blue ones, and I punish whenever I can. I also spam those fireballs.

Yours sound like a heavy case to me however, so I can't really say. I'll put the question up in the OP.

Matador said:

I just thought of something...Cape as an attack vs Snake. All it has to do is hit one of his crazy long hitboxes since they're not disjointed...and he turns around...It's also alot faster than most of his attacks...and that alone deals with the approach problem...

Genius? I think so.

Click to expand...

Hmm, that may work. One thing though: Snakes up-tilt and f-tilt are disjionted. Not by much, but enough to out range you. I'm not sure how this would affect the cape strategy though.

I've fought alot of olimars but probably not good ones so not sure but, have you tried a full hop Dair to FF Nair ? Alot of olimars are upsmash happy and nair > upsmash =/

Also, he camp by throwing pikimin all day (obviously sooner or later he'll have to approach or w/e), you can just Dair the pikimin and kill'em and restore for move diminishing. Just a filler x]

I haven't seen oli's pivot grab game but im hearing its pretty sick though.

But to the problem I'd try a SH Dair approach really, because you avoid grab range and you send him in the air where you want to **** him. Oh and cape stall while on the edge just so you wont get upb stage spiked frmo him.

Oh his grab's are so weird, I cape him, and he grabs me at the same time, and we both get reversed. Just a weird 'thingy' I had to post .

bump. We need to keep character match-up questions in here.

Ike...omg so dumb. Everytime I go to recover, fsmash, hanging on the edge *uses the attack that climbs up from the edge that has no name yet* it has about 2000 frames of lag, fsmash. I jump up over the edge, fsmash. So dumb I can't recover . I use Fireballs, but...it's Ike and I get no sympathy.

Edit: And yes for those wondering I suck at recovering.

Just cape stall to stir up some steam on him. When he uses it, punish him like the plumber you are. Your probably rushing in too much.

hippiedude92 said:

Just cape stall to stir up some steam on him. When he uses it, punish him like the plumber you are. Your probably rushing in too much.

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Pretty much.

Remember, Mario has literally nothing on Ike's ledge pressure. The best option is to just avoid the ledge at all costs. Fireball spam you way back onto the stage, as he has no answer to that either. Once you're back on, immediately head back to the middle of the stage. The advantage is yours if Ike can't hinder your mobility.

Okay, so I got a question for my own thread.

When I was in doubles, I was paired against a Luigi player that pretty much beat the snot out of me on the ground. It's pretty obvious he beats our ground game. However, we never entered aerial combat.

So, question is, what should I do to contest Luigi in the air?

Hmm...against Luigi, in the air, that's a toughy, considering is N-air is wonderful for breaking our u-air combo's, his b-air has better range then our's, and the b-air wall of pain hurts, his d-air is useful if we're below him trying to up-air him, because if it sweet spots, we'll most likely be sent the the ground.

Um...I usually like to use d-air, b-air, and u-air against him in the air. Mix up your aerials, with Fireballs, and use the Cape if you can screws up his spacing, and gives you a good oppotunity to attack. All in all, Luigi is a tough cookie in the air, I usually like to shield grab, then follow up with aerials, or up B out of shield is nice too.

Edit: Thanks hippiedude, and Hero for the help, about Ike, much appreciated.

i got confused on, if you wanted to know against him, or when youre teaming with em.....
=(