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Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread
- Thread starter TheZeroSuit
- Start date
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Stick close is a good one. He isn't very good at close combat.
Oh, and TL's U-Smash out prioritizes ZSS's D-Air iirc
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
Nice flame bait, but no thank you.
Toon Link's best moves for this matchup will probably have to be his bombs, zair, and probably bair/nair. TL always has a bomb out, and we can usually quickdraw after it to buy us a split second more time to position ourselves for it. Zair is mainly used as a follow up, mostly to Nair, and our bair is just really good. I'm not sure how well we can bair chain ZSS, but still be cautious about it. What ZSS should be doing is staying close to TL, since her close range combat is superior to Toon Links. Not to say Toon Link's close range sucks though, because it doesn't. Nair is really good, and so is our utilt (which is a fast killing move).
TL's rarely ever use Dair, and we NEVER use Fsmash, but if we do (and miss), punish. Same goes for our grabs. Our killing moves would be Utilt, Usmash, Uair, nair (unstale), bair (unstale), Fair, and sometimes Dsmash.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
If you see Tlink airdodging don't hesitate to grab him out of it. Free uair ftw.
TLinks dair > our uair though so watch out
TLinks dair > our uair though so watch out
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
TL's dair is not > uair
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Doesnt Zss have a grab release chain on TLink?
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
No, but she has a grab-release -> aerial I think.
I wouldn't try to grab Toon Link, however, unless you're punishing something laggy.
I wouldn't try to grab Toon Link, however, unless you're punishing something laggy.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Ok besides TL's WOS(wall of spam) and bull**** D-smash on the edge, Is he really a character for ZSS to fear? Cuz she has a lot of moves that outpriritize TL's aerial game. His ground game is horible besides the WOS. So what does he have against Zss?
noradseven
Smash Lord
we gotta becareful of like everything, cause we get instant lol gimped by a ton of people, hell you should be afraid of everything lol, especially character like ganon :D.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
NANNIII??? Ganon that was a good Lulz. Seriously if you get gimped early then its more your fault cuz Zammy has plenty of moves in her arsenal that'll help prevent gimps. That was funny but true as well. Expect the unexpected. Early gimps kill Zss.
As far as I know Toon Link's Dsmash gimp is basically his Dsmash which sends you off the stage at a low angle followed by an edgeguard possibly made a bit stronger with a bomb. Lol.
As for Dair I'm 90% sure you can beat it with Uair but the timing can be tough and when I try I wind up trading alot.
I'm guessing FD is a good stage to ban against him? Are there any other stages that TL does particularly well on?
As for Dair I'm 90% sure you can beat it with Uair but the timing can be tough and when I try I wind up trading alot.
I'm guessing FD is a good stage to ban against him? Are there any other stages that TL does particularly well on?
TL can also cancel his Dsmash with a bomb if he times and spaces it right.
But honestly, most of our ground game (counter-intuitively) out ranges most of his, so we generally are able to beat the kid out. And when he jumps dash attack beats just about everything he has in the air. I play Smith a lot, and literally all I do is dash attack.
I suppose TL could just shield, but his oos game is just about as bad as ours.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Personally I don't get hit by his d-smash often and I punish it on block or whiff so.
But your aireals, arrows(closeish),bombs, do a number on us, z-air really seems like a bit of a waste personally, low, damage kinda risky vs ZSS because we can still slip around it without too much problems.
But your aireals, arrows(closeish),bombs, do a number on us, z-air really seems like a bit of a waste personally, low, damage kinda risky vs ZSS because we can still slip around it without too much problems.
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
The Dsmash gimp, although dangerous, isn't the TL matchup. Dsmash kills vertically at around 150%. Toon Links will only use Dsmash to punish. We don't spam it. We never spam Fsmash, and we rarely use dair.
Attacks that we DO use are our projectiles, bair, nair, Zair, uair, utilt, and usmash. I already gave input on what i thought of these attacks.
Attacks that we DO use are our projectiles, bair, nair, Zair, uair, utilt, and usmash. I already gave input on what i thought of these attacks.
solecalibur
Smash Master
I have quivo in my area I should have input .... oh yeh I havnt vs'd him in brackets
I guess from watching SOME matches I guess I have some match up exp
1. watch out for the projectile game There games a bit different then how we play with our amour
2. THE BOOMERANG COMES BACK
3. They have some knowledge of our armour pieces
4. Unless your both approaching backwards avoid his backairs and like our Uairs his backairs can hit twice im not 100% sure if we can airdoge of the 2nd hit on certain %'s
5. The dair gimp isnt much of there game and we can recover from it (unlike what the tat discuss says) but it does put us in a bad spot
Thats all I got on this
The early gimp zss's can recover but you have to be aware of when its happening and
I guess from watching SOME matches I guess I have some match up exp
1. watch out for the projectile game There games a bit different then how we play with our amour
2. THE BOOMERANG COMES BACK
3. They have some knowledge of our armour pieces
4. Unless your both approaching backwards avoid his backairs and like our Uairs his backairs can hit twice im not 100% sure if we can airdoge of the 2nd hit on certain %'s
5. The dair gimp isnt much of there game and we can recover from it (unlike what the tat discuss says) but it does put us in a bad spot
Thats all I got on this
The early gimp zss's can recover but you have to be aware of when its happening and
/facepalm
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
Also, our ground game pretty much consists of whatever we can fit in a short hop. TLs rarely use jabs, dtilt, ftilt (although it's pretty effective depending on where you got hit), or Fsmash. We occasionally use Dsmash and Usmash, but we usually save them for the kill.
Our ground game, like I already said, is our aerial game, but brought down to a short hop, and it isn't bad at all. We can fair, nair, bair, bomb pull, bomb throw, and throw an arrow and follow it with a quick draw. Our Zair comes out quick, and it auto cancels, which is good, because we can follow it up with a nair, bomb throw, and if properly spaced, a grab.
You guys should fear the spam though, especially the bomb spam. Although the solution to most of our spam is to "just powershield everything", you'll never actually powershield everything we throw at you. Bombs can't be power shielded, since they'll just bounce and fall right in front of you. We can throw 2 arrows in one short hop, or we can toss a bomb and quickdraw. The combinations are endless, and in a full hop, we can toss all 3 projectiles. You could power shield most of our projectiles, but TLs will always find a way to make them land.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, our ground game isn't superior, but it isn't awful. We don't have many useful options OoS, but our best one, besides a grab, is probably a nair or a bair if we're facing the wrong way.
Our ground game, like I already said, is our aerial game, but brought down to a short hop, and it isn't bad at all. We can fair, nair, bair, bomb pull, bomb throw, and throw an arrow and follow it with a quick draw. Our Zair comes out quick, and it auto cancels, which is good, because we can follow it up with a nair, bomb throw, and if properly spaced, a grab.
You guys should fear the spam though, especially the bomb spam. Although the solution to most of our spam is to "just powershield everything", you'll never actually powershield everything we throw at you. Bombs can't be power shielded, since they'll just bounce and fall right in front of you. We can throw 2 arrows in one short hop, or we can toss a bomb and quickdraw. The combinations are endless, and in a full hop, we can toss all 3 projectiles. You could power shield most of our projectiles, but TLs will always find a way to make them land.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, our ground game isn't superior, but it isn't awful. We don't have many useful options OoS, but our best one, besides a grab, is probably a nair or a bair if we're facing the wrong way.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
It doesn't really seem like anyone really knows enough to comment much. Snakeee and norad have both said this is one of their easiest matchups though. Lets get more discussion
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
I wouldn't say it's one of Zero Suit's easiest match-ups...
But she certainly does destroy most of Toon Link's overall metagame.
Toon Links often focus around projectile pressuring characters in the air and forcing them to go where he wants them to, then he punishes them after he predicts where they're going to land. Due to Zero Suit's amazing jump height and ability to mind game and evade attacks in the air (Ex. Flipjumping away from Toon Link when he tries to punish), it places Toon Link at a tiny disadvantage.
That doesn't wreck Toon Link, though. His air game is still a tad bit superior to ours, IMO. We can easily predict what he's going to do, space and punish, but the his down air actually has enough range to stop ZSS from following up with Uair chains. On the ground, we can out range him, but he has far more kill potential than we do. Up smash or a sweetspotted Forward Smash can KO ZSS below 90%, even taking decent DI into consideration.
Through all my experience with Toon Links, this match-up is easy if they continue to focus around their projectile game, allowing themselves to get punished; rather than staying as close to ZSS as they possibly can to give themselves an edge.
Side+B is a life saver in this match-up. lol.
But she certainly does destroy most of Toon Link's overall metagame.
Toon Links often focus around projectile pressuring characters in the air and forcing them to go where he wants them to, then he punishes them after he predicts where they're going to land. Due to Zero Suit's amazing jump height and ability to mind game and evade attacks in the air (Ex. Flipjumping away from Toon Link when he tries to punish), it places Toon Link at a tiny disadvantage.
That doesn't wreck Toon Link, though. His air game is still a tad bit superior to ours, IMO. We can easily predict what he's going to do, space and punish, but the his down air actually has enough range to stop ZSS from following up with Uair chains. On the ground, we can out range him, but he has far more kill potential than we do. Up smash or a sweetspotted Forward Smash can KO ZSS below 90%, even taking decent DI into consideration.
Through all my experience with Toon Links, this match-up is easy if they continue to focus around their projectile game, allowing themselves to get punished; rather than staying as close to ZSS as they possibly can to give themselves an edge.
Side+B is a life saver in this match-up. lol.
shlike
Smash Ace
this mu is NOT one of zss's easiest
snake is loads easier than tl lol
i've played jerm and hyro, tl is by no means easy
its about even imo
snake is loads easier than tl lol
i've played jerm and hyro, tl is by no means easy
its about even imo
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
You need to elaborate though lol, I cant put that into a matchup discussion.
Also Darky-Sama, a lot of what you said... well it sounds a bit off from what I'd expect. Pretty much we can punish projectile spam from TL pretty well, mostly with DA. Getting in and PS all those projectiles seems like it'd be the hardest part, once we're in though we have better tools than tlink I'd say. Also, there's no way he's killing us sub 90 unless your DI is pathetic or you're on a stupid stage. Tlink is generally considered to have pretty mediocre killing ability, you make him sound like Snake.
Also this is one of the matchups where I don't think side b would have much utility compared to others. It seems like tlink would have a pretty easy time knocking you out of it.
The problem with all of what you've said just now, is it's beaten by my strategy.
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
OK now that's just crazy. I've played good TL's and snakes, and by no means can you say TL is harder. Snakes tend to kill earlier with their broken tilt game. Zss has alot more options against snake i would say, but TL is way easier to kill IMO. "Snake's never die." Remember that quote when fighting Ally. As for TL, just be aware of his WOS on the ground and his SH aerials. Other than that get in on him and he's done. I would say 55:45 Zss favor.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
TL is def. not harder than Snake. YOu listed playing good TLs, but do you play any good Snakes?
shlike
Smash Ace
i've played g-reg on wifi (lulz) and texas has some good snake players as well. (razer, vorguen, ice) or maybe i feel that snake is easier because i know the matchup better.
either way tl isnt a pushover
either way tl isnt a pushover
Vorguen
Smash Champion
oh hai there
shlike
Smash Ace
solecalibur
Smash Master
We are really talking offline match ups and snakes do not do as well online as they do offline don't you find it strange you dont see many luigi's or Pokemontrainers at tounrys but a ton online? Have you played many snakes offline?
I personally think this match up is 60 : 40 (Toon link) but the skill gap between TL's my level in game play are a bit off .... since I have quivo on one hand (best Toonlink in nation or at least midwest) and I have some people starting to main Toon Link on the other hand that havn't even came close to me
shlike
Smash Ace
yes lol i literally played wifi for 2 days while i was out of town at a friends during the summer, it was fun for a while then it sucked. I travel to tourneys and do decent (sometimes sigh) but i'm taking this game alot less seriously and just playing it for fun now, and i've started to play better lol.
k end of random rant.
actual input time
- uair wrecks tl dair is ridicously slow and easy to see coming
- zss can kill tl alot earlier than vice versa and can rack up damage slightly faster
- side b is not all you make it to be in this matchup, approach either with ps's, sh air dodges, or full hops and see where that gets you.
- not all tl's projectile spam, for example (TANGENT) when playing dedede's who do nothing but walk and powershield i mix it up by throwing in some cross up bairs, pivot grabs, standing grabs, retreating side b, etc) in other words, tl can predict that your just gonna walk up and shield, and either grab you out of it , jump over you and string bairs all day or simply just run away and repeat process.
- dash attack is amazing in this matchup and is a great punishing tool
-tl's recovery vertical recovery is AMAZING, i remember flip spiking jerm at 30 % in a mm and thinking YEAH IM AWESOME, he proceeded to recover and edgehog and i couldnt recover even with boostjump it was ridiculously lame.
- if you're at low percentages and tl is turtling on edge he is trying to dsmash gimp you, just eat damage to around 25-30% and you're good
thats my input thus far i need to play high level tl's more often
oh and i wasnt being entirely serious about the snake thing i said that because it's one of my favorite MU's.
juggle all dai baby
Salem
Smash Champion
We need to fix some of these MUs.
I know a simple strat for us ZSS's to use to beat Falco and Diddy.
I don't really see how we lose badly to them, and I have to say we might even have an advantage on MetaKnight with this anti Metaknight strat, so guys, want some personal info+help?
I know a simple strat for us ZSS's to use to beat Falco and Diddy.
I don't really see how we lose badly to them, and I have to say we might even have an advantage on MetaKnight with this anti Metaknight strat, so guys, want some personal info+help?
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Salem
Smash Champion
It's more like a "how our gurl beats MK and we counter him: The easy way to figure them out.", it's semi long and all the stuff works in here exept a few, it talks about almost all his moves and what can be done against ZSS and what she can do against MK, i'll give you a sample.
---------------
"I'd start with the other chars but MK vs ZSS is very interesting and I personally like the match-up. >_>"
My strats usually work against alot of MKs I tested them I promise.
I also have a peices strat against him giving us a even better cheap advantage but that will be explained later.
We almost have a counter for each and every one of his moves really.
Let me just start on MK's best normal moves and then i'll get to the specials, i'll point out what we beat and what we don't beat due to brokeness.
MKs D-Tilt: This move should only work if it trips or if we are dumb enough to stay on the ground and get locked, but besides that if shielded... D-tilt is fast but our jab is faster and we can do 2 jabs to interrupt him and GTFO, I don't belive our OOS U-tilt works on this move so this is our second option, though now if this is spaced we have one last option I don't think it is guranteed but if we PS the first hit we can OOS D-tilt him or better yet F-tilt.
MKs F-Tilt: Almost the same as before, we can "possibly" OOS Jab this or our second option Down-B OOS as that move has a bit of lag, we can't exactly exept hit him when he's useing this unless he finishes the whole move, if so we can OOS D-tilt him or F-tilt wheichever floats the boat.
MKs D-Smash: This move is GAY lol, But if we PS or possibly normal shield it we can D-tilt OOS him or OOS D-smash him if PSed, this move has some bit of noticable lag don't get get scared by this move even at high percents, just remember we can counter that.
Now MK's OOS options shouldn't work on us, we are a freakin spacing char, but there are times when stuff "unexpectedly" happen cause we aren't watching out.
MKs F-tilt OOS: We can hit him if we are hit by this at low percentages, the last hit lasts way to long and we can F-air or D-air him...
MKs SHed F-air OOS: If we react fast enough we can SDI behind him before the last hit hits and we can F-tilt or U-tilt him, remember the timing "1.2.3" if we shield this we can OOS U-tilt him and if he retreats with it we can grab(?) him or dash attack.
MKs N-Air OOS: This bans any use of Dash Attack, replace Dash Attack with Forward-B and charged shots, if you block it counter with OOS U-tilt or OOS Jab.
Mks D-air OOS/D-air: Annoying thats what this is, I think if we space wrong we'll get hit even if we Side-B but normally... D-air and its camping shouldn't work, time the first seen D-air and U-air him, it's simple you could test out how fast MKs D-air is by going into training mode and checking it out, do it if you must, it is important you must remember.
Also kill the habit of Double D-smashing when not hitting anything in this fight he'll punish you quickly for it, seriously. You need time for every bit in this match.
Single D-Smash > Double D-Smash
Now for the specials...
MKs Up-B OOS/Glide Attack: What. This shouldn't hit us unless we Dash Attacked into his shield, don't be a dumb ZSS. you can also force the MK to use his glide attack early by using N-air which clashes with it, doing this gives him landing lag as he has to land in a specific time to not obtain that, you can also easily tell whens he's gonna attempt to do the simple option also, I don't know why most people forget that you can just D-smash him if you see the attempted land, even though it's an auto cancel he has to land to actually attack or use the time specific auto cancel glide attack, don't be afraid you have alot more options when he does this, like grab for example? don't miss though...
NADO: Okay this is where we finally take the whole character itself down RIGHT now, we have bunches of ways to destroy this move, first if you see this coming towards you run, ZSS is faster then the nado get that right, you can then do one of the following...
[Run off stage and B-air the both of the nado, this usually hits.]
[Jump almost off stage and B-air the head of the nado, you got a better chance with this.]
[F-air it, I don't try this really much but it works. lol]
[N-air the top of the nado, 100% works.(?)]
[U-air the top of the nado. (?)]
[Forward-B the middle of it, that should be easy.]
[Down-B it, not always effective, use at your own risk.]
[Run off stage and ledge attack it, ledge attacks have high prioirity.]
[PIVOT GRAB, simple and effective.]
[D-Smash, ***** nado, pretty much bans it.]
I won't explain MKs Side-B, OOS U-tilt nuff said.
MKs Up-B Planking skillz: First let me start and say, he has none, it's all a illusion coupled with the annoying split second reaction time, just simply time it and edge hog the ledge, he'll attempt to go to the other side and fail if you Down-B quickly onto the stage and edge hog that.
Theres also many times where I noticed a MK can pretty much SD if trying to gimp with Up-B.
They'll usually grab the ledge cause they know ZSS's D-smash is **** damage, if you see this Edge Hog them.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Bair OOS > MKIt's more like a "how our gurl beats MK and we counter him: The easy way to figure them out.", it's semi long and all the stuff works in here exept a few, it talks about almost all his moves and what can be done against ZSS and what she can do against MK, i'll give you a sample.
---------------
"I'd start with the other chars but MK vs ZSS is very interesting and I personally like the match-up. >_>"
My strats usually work against alot of MKs I tested them I promise.
I also have a peices strat against him giving us a even better cheap advantage but that will be explained later.
We almost have a counter for each and every one of his moves really.
Let me just start on MK's best normal moves and then i'll get to the specials, i'll point out what we beat and what we don't beat due to brokeness.
MKs D-Tilt: This move should only work if it trips or if we are dumb enough to stay on the ground and get locked, but besides that if shielded... D-tilt is fast but our jab is faster and we can do 2 jabs to interrupt him and GTFO, I don't belive our OOS U-tilt works on this move so this is our second option, though now if this is spaced we have one last option I don't think it is guranteed but if we PS the first hit we can OOS D-tilt him or better yet F-tilt.
MKs F-Tilt: Almost the same as before, we can "possibly" OOS Jab this or our second option Down-B OOS as that move has a bit of lag, we can't exactly exept hit him when he's useing this unless he finishes the whole move, if so we can OOS D-tilt him or F-tilt wheichever floats the boat.
MKs D-Smash: This move is GAY lol, But if we PS or possibly normal shield it we can D-tilt OOS him or OOS D-smash him if PSed, this move has some bit of noticable lag don't get get scared by this move even at high percents, just remember we can counter that.
MKs Up-Smash: Sucks.
Now MK's OOS options shouldn't work on us, we are a freakin spacing char, but there are times when stuff "unexpectedly" happen cause we aren't watching out.
MKs F-tilt OOS: We can hit him if we are hit by this at low percentages, the last hit lasts way to long and we can F-air or D-air him...
MKs SHed F-air OOS: If we react fast enough we can SDI behind him before the last hit hits and we can F-tilt or U-tilt him, remember the timing "1.2.3" if we shield this we can OOS U-tilt him and if he retreats with it we can grab(?) him or dash attack.
MKs N-Air OOS: This bans any use of Dash Attack, replace Dash Attack with Forward-B and charged shots, if you block it counter with OOS U-tilt or OOS Jab.
Mks D-air OOS/D-air: Annoying thats what this is, I think if we space wrong we'll get hit even if we Side-B but normally... D-air and its camping shouldn't work, time the first seen D-air and U-air him, it's simple you could test out how fast MKs D-air is by going into training mode and checking it out, do it if you must, it is important you must remember.
Also kill the habit of Double D-smashing when not hitting anything in this fight he'll punish you quickly for it, seriously. You need time for every bit in this match.
Single D-Smash > Double D-Smash
Now for the specials...
MKs Up-B OOS/Glide Attack: What. This shouldn't hit us unless we Dash Attacked into his shield, don't be a dumb ZSS. you can also force the MK to use his glide attack early by using N-air which clashes with it, doing this gives him landing lag as he has to land in a specific time to not obtain that, you can also easily tell whens he's gonna attempt to do the simple option also, I don't know why most people forget that you can just D-smash him if you see the attempted land, even though it's an auto cancel he has to land to actually attack or use the time specific auto cancel glide attack, don't be afraid you have alot more options when he does this, like grab for example? don't miss though...
NADO: Okay this is where we finally take the whole character itself down RIGHT now, we have bunches of ways to destroy this move, first if you see this coming towards you run, ZSS is faster then the nado get that right, you can then do one of the following...
[Run off stage and B-air the both of the nado, this usually hits.]
[Jump almost off stage and B-air the head of the nado, you got a better chance with this.]
[F-air it, I don't try this really much but it works. lol]
[N-air the top of the nado, 100% works.(?)]
[U-air the top of the nado. (?)]
[Forward-B the middle of it, that should be easy.]
[Down-B it, not always effective, use at your own risk.]
[Run off stage and ledge attack it, ledge attacks have high prioirity.]
[PIVOT GRAB, simple and effective.]
[D-Smash, ***** nado, pretty much bans it.]
I won't explain MKs Side-B, OOS U-tilt nuff said.
MKs Up-B Planking skillz: First let me start and say, he has none, it's all a illusion coupled with the annoying split second reaction time, just simply time it and edge hog the ledge, he'll attempt to go to the other side and fail if you Down-B quickly onto the stage and edge hog that.
Theres also many times where I noticed a MK can pretty much SD if trying to gimp with Up-B.
They'll usually grab the ledge cause they know ZSS's D-smash is **** damage, if you see this Edge Hog them.
Also, our Uair > MK's Nair. Useful for recovering. (If you recover low which I do, totally against Snakeee's advice. ^^,)
Salem
Smash Champion
Eww... B-air OOS requires you not to be looking at MK...
Hmm... new play style?
U-air is good against MKs N-air, I forgot. >_>
I should add that.
Snakeee taught me Forward-B sucks, but he didn't taught me that it's the perfect close to the ledge shield pressuring weapon.
It can also be an OOS option in some way to become a better move, obviously PowerShield only though...
Snakeee
Smash Master
That part works, but Meta can often gimp you as your tether comes out if you use it.
And I don't say to NEVER EVER use Side B, but it's often powershielded purely on reaction and punished(and you're not pressuring anyone near the ledge either then). I mostly only use it when I expect my opponent to make a move or movement where they are going to end up in the spot I want, and they aren't going to be able to do anything about it.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I just use it to mixup bair spacing so that they are never safe
nevereverever
nevereverever
Salem
Smash Champion
Since when? O_oThat part works, but Meta can often gimp you as your tether comes out if you use it.
And I don't say to NEVER EVER use Side B, but it's often powershielded purely on reaction and punished(and you're not pressuring anyone near the ledge either then). I mostly only use it when I expect my opponent to make a move or movement where they are going to end up in the spot I want, and they aren't going to be able to do anything about it.
I use it during the frames they have to get up off the ledge and do a useless get up attack or just before they shield after getting up, I use it at the very top of they're head (during the match I reduce they're shield to do such a thing, it goes by unoticable. lol) to decrase chances of the PS on my Forward-B, though that also usually means I miss sometimes depending on said characters height... like MK. -_-;
It usually ends up with them getting hit one way or another anyway, nothing to be spammed to much though refreshing that move is harder then it looks.
B-air could be better for ledge pressure but characters like MK aren't gonna be hit by that much due to their height and I rather save B-air for something else so I have at the least one kill move, so i'll stick with the Forward-B for ledge pressure untill I find something else thats more safe and effective... to me anyway.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Or, just drop sheild > pivot > bair
shlike
Smash Ace
even if you buffer correctly bair comes out on frame 8 and 8 frame moves arent always safe oos. uair oos makes a bit more sense to me and or utilt/dtilt.
Salem
Smash Champion
Yeah, and U-air can combo and you don't stale B-air.
Maybe if they use a laggy attack behind you...
shlike
Smash Ace
your opponent doesnt necessarily have to be behind you. You can headbutt a bair on taller characters, but unless they are at kill % i think uair oos is the better way to go.