Metaknight should not be banned

MaxfireXSA · Nov 9, 2008

Link to original post: [drupal=736]Metaknight should not be banned[/drupal]

There are 3 arguments that they're saying Metaknight should be banned what I just saw according to this links.

http://www.smashboards.com/news/blog...ng-meta-knight
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197057
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200718

Enough with the arguments about banning Metaknight and let me tell you something.

When I play 'Super Smash Bros Brawl', I went to training mode, I play as Ike, and I faced off against Metaknight as an Lv.9 AI to test Metaknight's moves in training mode. What I discovered Metaknight's technique, is that when I play as Ike, I got out, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out, then Metaknight respawn and I got out again, then I respawn and knock Metaknight out again, until I got great advantage to knock Metaknight out twice within being stayed alive.

So the conclusion is, Metaknight should not be banned, because I test him while I play as Ike and I have no problems with Metaknight.

Remember that Metaknight gets knocked out by any of the characters(like Ike), because if you read 'Super Smash Bros Brawl Guide: Premiere Edition' by 'PrimaGames', they will tell you about 'Fight against Metaknight' in the 'Character Guide' Section.

-Robert(aka: MaxfireXSA)

kingdom-triforce · Nov 9, 2008

But u were playing against a comp so isn't that a lot different from playing with real ppl?

I think most ppl wants him banned after incidents in tourneys and stuff. (I could b wrong, srry if I am)

Jigglymaster · Nov 9, 2008

A human MK would gimp your ike in 5 seconds. No offense but they would. All MK has to do is d smash you then d air you and edgegaurd and your dead.

MaxfireXSA · Nov 9, 2008

Jigglymaster said:
A human MK would gimp your ike in 5 seconds. No offense but they would. All MK has to do is d smash you then d air you and edgegaurd and your dead.

It depends on how well did I play against people who plays Metaknight(when I can do quickdraw and counter while I play as Ike).

That's why I play against Metaknight at Lv.9 CPU, and I can knock Metaknight out twice within stay alive. But we'll see if I can go in online and beat some players who play as Metaknight.

abit_rusty · Nov 9, 2008

This looks so much like a joke topic.

Come on people, he's referencing the Prima Guide. Seriously?

Delta_BP26 · Nov 9, 2008

abit_rusty said:
This looks so much like a joke topic.

Come on people, he's referencing the Prima Guide. Seriously?

My thoughts EXACTLY.

Thiago26792 · Nov 9, 2008

MK should be banned, at least until they find his weak point.

Firus · Nov 9, 2008

Your conclusion is rather rushed and unsupported. Being able to knock out two stocks in one life against a level 9 CPU does not make Meta Knight non-broken. Play against someone who really knows what they're doing with MK and then say he's not broken. Even if you did manage to do the same, you are one person. It doesn't make him a fair character.

Also, don't cite the Prima Guide for defense...A) The guide isn't based on competitivity, and B) I've read the guide myself, it's inaccurate in more than one place. As Prima Guides usually are.

pyrotek7x7 · Nov 9, 2008

You can defeat a level 9, so what? That means nothing.

Computers don't know how to use the characters the best way. If the computer wasn't spamming mach tornado, it was playing Metaknight wrong.

LSDX · Nov 9, 2008

I laughed hard at this topic.

1). Don't believe strategy guides, especially on a fighting game. Skill with a characters contradicts whether the character can perform as well as the person they are being played by.

2). Ditch the CPU's and find a real opponent. Only then will you realize the true extent of MK's evil...

MaxfireXSA · Nov 9, 2008

Thiago26792 said:
MK should be banned, at least until they find his weak point.

Did you read the 'Super Smash Bros Brawl: Premiere Edition' by PrimaGames? They should tell you about how to defeat Metaknight.

And please guys, this blog is not a joke, I test Metaknight while I play as Ike.

Delta_BP26 · Nov 9, 2008

MaxfireXSA said:
Did you read the 'Super Smash Bros Brawl: Premiere Edition' by PrimaGames? They should tell you about how to defeat Metaknight.

And please guys, this blog is not a joke, I test Metaknight while I play as Ike.

You hear that? It's official now. Toke jopic.

Tomato Kirby · Nov 9, 2008

Why should Meta Knight not be banned? I decided to make him a main.

I joined the Dark Side; I wanted the power.

Anyways:

MaxfireXSA said:
It depends on how well did I play against people who plays Metaknight(when I can do quickdraw and counter while I play as Ike).

That's why I play against Metaknight at Lv.9 CPU, and I can knock Metaknight out twice within stay alive. But we'll see if I can go in online and beat some players who play as Metaknight.

Now what was that quote...

Emblem Lord said:
MK has no exploitable weaknesses. If you beat MK you didn't actually beat MK. You just beat the person using MK. This is called bad character design.

No offense; Meta Knight wins tournaments for a reason.

streetracr77 · Nov 9, 2008

The fact that you were playing a computer doesn't prove your point at all. Also, if Ike were as good as you say he was, he would be winning tournaments and MK wouldn't.

Minwu · Nov 9, 2008

But obviously no one who goes to tournaments read Prima's guide guys! Prima is official. That means they can't be wrong, that means the tourney nubs just suck!

ZeroFox · Nov 9, 2008

I don't think your argument is very good for why MK shouldn't be banned. I don't think he should be banned, but I think you're going to have to come up with better arguments to convince everyone else if you know what I mean.

MaxfireXSA · Nov 10, 2008

Okay, guys, if they play as Metaknight, and someone spams the B button to do the tornado slash again and again, how could you escape from getting heavy damaged? Could you air jump to avoid getting hit again by Metaknight's tornado slash?

raydude · Nov 10, 2008

MK is cool

ZeroFox · Nov 10, 2008

MaxfireXSA said:
Okay, guys, if they play as Metaknight, and someone spams the B button to do the tornado slash again and again, how could you escape from getting heavy damaged? Could you air jump to avoid getting hit again by Metaknight's tornado slash?

His Tornado isn't 100% perfect. He can still be hit out of it. It has its weakpoints. It's subject to decay.

Minwu · Nov 10, 2008

Of course it's subject to decay. That still doesn't make it anything but free damage.

His tornado isn't 100% perfect. Meta Knight's roof, however, is.

Tomato Kirby · Nov 10, 2008

MaxfireXSA said:
Okay, guys, if they play as Metaknight, and someone spams the B button to do the tornado slash again and again, how could you escape from getting heavy damaged? Could you air jump to avoid getting hit again by Metaknight's tornado slash?

You can just run away and punish it after MK finishes (maybe) or outprioritize it.

Zylar · Nov 10, 2008

Slow and heavies can escape the nado, spot-dodging doesn't always work because he can come back at you just as you stop dodging. If you shield and even if you tilt the shield against him, it still pokes and he'll stay close to the ground so he'll just dsmash or dtilt quickly afterwards. Punishing the nado only works if he went high, which a good MK wouldn't do unless he's got you. Even if he did a mistake and went high, the nado itself would put you in a position where a punish is predictable (Thus punishable itself) or impossible. Also, outprioritizing MK's nado is 1. dangerous (You and him can get hit, it won't work, it will work but the next series of attacks hit you.) 2. difficult (nado's speed, your move's slowness comparitavely, or you plainly miss.) 3. impossible for some characters.

Anywho, for me I'm still an iffy on this issue. I'm leaning towards no ban, however I'm very concerned about his influence on people, meaning how he drives people away from tourneys, brawl, and even videogames altogether. (T_T... rip my friends...)

MK doesn't have a single attribute to merit a ban. Yet MK's influence is degreading the game.

On-topic : CPU's are programmed, thus limited. Humans aren't.
Maxfire, how much of this topic have you read and discussed?

Oracle · Nov 10, 2008

Wow. This is just sad.
You need to leave your house more than 5 times a week for elementary school and start actually researching things before you make ******** posts like this.

Delta_BP26 · Nov 10, 2008

1 w1nged @ngel said:
Wow. This is just sad.
You need to leave your house more than 5 times a week for elementary school and start actually researching things before you make ******** posts like this.

You contradicted yourself. Research about competitive Smash is done at home, on Smashboards, my friend.

MaxfireXSA · Nov 11, 2008

ZeroFox said:
His Tornado isn't 100% perfect. He can still be hit out of it. It has its weakpoints. It's subject to decay.

Agree, and that's why if you got slashed by Metaknight's tornado, you have to jump while in the air.

Zylar said:
Maxfire, how much of this topic have you read and discussed?

More than 2 times about banning Metaknight, because I said it twice that Metaknight should not be banned in two different threads about banning Metaknight.

1 w1nged @ngel said:
Wow. This is just sad.
You need to leave your house more than 5 times a week for elementary school and start actually researching things before you make ******** posts like this.

Don't make me report your post, I don't want to be depressed by some members.

So anyways, when I play 'Super Smash Bros Brawl', I test 5 characters that I test against Metaknight(on lvl.9 CPU): Ike, Fox, Mario, Marth, and Falco.

First test I play as Ike, and I can do a clever trick against Metaknight and I got him knockdown. Second test I play as Fox, but I did okay with Fox, and I was a little but close to get knockdown with 1 stock, and I defeated Metaknight. Third test I play as Mario, but is sad for me to defeat Metaknight, until I can counter if I pressed the A button three times, and it's a lost for me by Metaknight. Fourth test I play as Marth, and I really got down with 1 stock while Metaknight was the first one that has 1 stock left, so I defeat Metaknight finally without myself falling from the glacier(where the glacier is running on water). Then the fifth test I play as Falco, and Falco's move was very different from the Melee version, because I can deal a heavy damage to Metaknight while pressing the A button rapidly, and is a failure for me to beat Metaknight.

Now as you can see what I did by testing against Metaknight is 3 out of 5 character that I test was a success. That means for Mario and Falco that I've test against Metaknight, I shall have to work on techniques and tricks with Mario and Falco because I test Ike, Fox, and Marth against Metaknight and it was a success.

So there you go, if I faced off against the online players or the players who played as Metaknight, it depends how well did they play, either I lose in the game, or I would win. And for some high-level players who've been to the tournament before should know how to defeat some high-level players who played as Metaknight in the tournament, and it depends who will win and how would they escape from players spamming the B button to do Tornado Slash again and again.

Smooth Criminal · Nov 11, 2008

Delta_BP26 said:
You contradicted yourself. Research about competitive Smash is done at home, on Smashboards, my friend.

That's only part of it. The other half? Actually going to tourneys and playing real people. Offline.

Maxfire: Like ZeroFOX (loledit) said, you aren't really doing anything that furthers the argument. And using level 9 computers to test with is not a good way of going about doing that. My point about the "research" aspect, as made above: Go to tourneys. Play people offline. Then perhaps you'll get a better idea.

Smooth Criminal

MaxfireXSA · Nov 11, 2008

Smooth Criminal said:
Maxfire: Like ZeroFOX (loledit) said, you aren't really doing anything that furthers the argument. And using level 9 computers to test with is not a good way of going about doing that. My point about the "research" aspect, as made above: Go to tourneys. Play people offline. Then perhaps you'll get a better idea.

I prefer playing 'Super Smash Bros Brawl' with my brother, so he'll play as Metaknight, and I can play as Ike, and my brother will pretend he kept spamming the B button to do the Tornado Slash again and again. A good plan, ey?

ZeroFox · Nov 11, 2008

Minwu said:
Of course it's subject to decay. That still doesn't make it anything but free damage.

His tornado isn't 100% perfect. Meta Knight's roof, however, is.

His Tornado isn't always "free damage." As I've said, it's not 100% perfect. It has weaknesses. It may be a very good move, but it's not perfect.

MaxfireXSA · Nov 11, 2008

ZeroFox said:
His Tornado isn't always "free damage." As I've said, it's not 100% perfect. It has weaknesses. It may be a very good move, but it's not perfect.

Zerofox, I agree with you, Metaknight's tornado slash are not that perfect.

So anyway, let me tell you this.

I play as Metaknight against the Lv.9 CPU for the test to see if is impossible to avoid Metaknight's repetitious tornado slash. While I kept spamming the B button to do the tornado slash to do a heavy damage among the players, is gonna be a 75% - 40% chance to avoid the spamming Metaknight's tornado slash, because to counter is if you play as Ganondorf, you could press the down arrow and the A button to counter Metaknight's tornado slash.

If I could test that Metaknight's tornado slash can be countered, then let me try again, and I'll be back.

EDIT: Just for my conclusion, is while you're in the air, Metaknight will perform a tornado slash, the best way is to avoid Metaknight's tornado slash while you're in the air is to press the left or right arrow to dodge, I don't know about countering Metaknight's tornado slash, because if you play as Fox, Ike, Falco, or Luigi, you could avoid Metaknight's tornado slash while you're in the air.

F@!c0Girl605 · Nov 11, 2008

Ha ha ha! These topics amuse me. Meta Knight should be banned. The CPU MK's don't bother me, but sometimes when you go online and brawl a MK player, they spam you alot. Don't get me started on MK's spams. That's just my opinion, I don't really care if MK is banned or not.

J0RDY · Nov 11, 2008

Why the hell is everyone still posting here, this guy is just saying that he can beat a lvl 9 MK with 3 characters? OMG >_>. Now just let this die.

jigglyppuff8 · Nov 11, 2008

When you play as your main and face a Lv. 9 CPU, do your actions match? If they do, sell your copy of brawl and pick up a different game. Meta Knight mains have a VERY different playing style than Lv. 9 CPUs do. They know about the potency of his quick aerials, his quick D-Smash, the Shuttle Loop's KOing power, gliding, and a whole bunch of other stuff that CPUs don't know about. Also, an "official" strategy guide is written by people who assume you just play with 3 other friends for fun with items on. Here on the internet, though I hope we still play for fun, it is serious business. It has been about 8 months since this game's initial release and the internet community can provide more than those "Official" guides can dish out. I'm pretty sure they make no mention of DI, Smash-DI, chain-grabs, approach, pressuring, or all that other detailed information that is available here on Smashboards. Meta Knight may be banned, Meta Knight may not be banned, who knows? What I know is that beating a Lv. 9 with anything will not affect that decision.

MaxfireXSA · Nov 11, 2008

F@!c0Girl605 said:
Ha ha ha! These topics amuse me. Meta Knight should be banned. The CPU MK's don't bother me, but sometimes when you go online and brawl a MK player, they spam you alot. Don't get me started on MK's spams. That's just my opinion, I don't really care if MK is banned or not.

This topic amuse you? Because you say Meta Knight should be banned? Really. We'll see.

Now according when I read 'Super Smash Bros Brawl: Premiere Edition' Guide, here's what I heard from the guide that it's about 'Fighting against Meta Knight'.

SSBB: Premiere Edition Guide said:
Projectile attacks work well against Metaknight, but if you do not have a projectile, fight at close range with a great deal of patience. Many Meta Knight players will be constantly moving, but if you don't let them evade your attacks, you can dash toward them and attack as soon as they stop moving.

And that's why the 'SSBB: Premiere Edition' Guide should've tell you about fighting against Meta Knight.

Smooth Criminal · Nov 11, 2008

MaxfireXSA said:
Now according when I read 'Super Smash Bros Brawl: Premiere Edition' Guide, here's what I heard from the guide that it's about 'Fight against Meta Knight'.

I hate to sound like an ***, but congratulations: You just lost all credibility.

My advice? Lurk a lot and play more people than your brother.

Smooth Criminal

MaxfireXSA · Nov 11, 2008

Smooth Criminal said:
I hate to sound like an ***, but congratulations: You just lost all credibility.

My advice? Lurk a lot and play more people than your brother.

Smooth Criminal

Are you serious? I'm not making this up, is just I've played it on 'Super Smash Bros Brawl', and I've heard it from 'SSBB: Premiere Edition' Guide' about 'Fighting against Meta Knight', please, I did not made this up, it's all true.

Smooth Criminal · Nov 11, 2008

MaxfireXSA said:
Are you serious? I'm not making this up, is just I've played it on 'Super Smash Bros Brawl', and I've heard it from 'SSBB: Premiere Edition' Guide' about 'Fighting against Meta Knight', please, I did not made this up, it's all true.

Oh, no. I'm not saying that you made it up at all, Max. It's just Jigglypuff kinda nailed the point home, as below.

jigglyppuff8 said:
When you play as your main and face a Lv. 9 CPU, do your actions match? If they do, sell your copy of brawl and pick up a different game. Meta Knight mains have a VERY different playing style than Lv. 9 CPUs do. They know about the potency of his quick aerials, his quick D-Smash, the Shuttle Loop's KOing power, gliding, and a whole bunch of other stuff that CPUs don't know about. Also, an "official" strategy guide is written by people who assume you just play with 3 other friends for fun with items on. Here on the internet, though I hope we still play for fun, it is serious business. It has been about 8 months since this game's initial release and the internet community can provide more than those "Official" guides can dish out. I'm pretty sure they make no mention of DI, Smash-DI, chain-grabs, approach, pressuring, or all that other detailed information that is available here on Smashboards. Meta Knight may be banned, Meta Knight may not be banned, who knows? What I know is that beating a Lv. 9 with anything will not affect that decision.

That "premiere" guide you keep talking about. Is that the Brady/Prima one? Because if it is, well...they have Metaknight listed as a "middle of the road" sort of character.

And as Jiggs emphasized, that is far from the case. Metaknight is a good character with very safe approaches and many ways to KO/gimp (not good enough to me to warrant a ban, but you know). Do yourself a favor and just read what people have written on here about Brawl's metagame. You'll find more information than what you could ever hope to find in a strategy guide.

Smooth Criminal

dumba989 · Nov 11, 2008

No character in Brawl should be banned, including Meta Knight, he can be beat, just like all other characters, you just have to familiarize yourself with the matchup, that, you have to go to tournaments and players with "common" sense and knowledge of the game, its not too difficult if you dedicate yourself to the game and begin to learn it

MaxfireXSA · Nov 11, 2008

Smooth Criminal said:
Oh, no. I'm not saying that you made it up at all, Max. It's just Jigglypuff kinda nailed the point home, as below.

That "premiere" guide you keep talking about. Is that the Brady/Prima one? Because if it is, well...they have Metaknight listed as a "middle of the road" sort of character.

And as Jiggs emphasized, that is far from the case. Metaknight is a good character with very safe approaches and many ways to KO/gimp (not good enough to me to warrant a ban, but you know). Do yourself a favor and just read what people have written on here about Brawl's metagame. You'll find more information than what you could ever hope to find in a strategy guide.

Smooth Criminal

Thank you, thank you, thank you, that's what does 'SSBB: Premiere Edition' Guide looks like to show the SB fans what it looks, and that guide could include about 'Fighting against Meta Knight'.

dumba989 said:
No character in Brawl should be banned, including Meta Knight, he can be beat, just like all other characters, you just have to familiarize yourself with the matchup, that, you have to go to tournaments and players with "common" sense and knowledge of the game, its not too difficult if you dedicate yourself to the game and begin to learn it

Yes, you're right, and yes too about when Meta Knight can be beated by other player plays other Brawl characters.

Firus · Nov 11, 2008

Dude.

STRATEGY GUIDES ARE NOT THE ANSWER WHEN IT COMES TO COMPETITIVITY.

First of all, in this case, it's a guide by PRIMA. Read their Animal Crossing guide. Go ahead, do it. Play the actual game (or if you've already played it, use that knowledge) and apply everything they say as fact. Tell me how that turns out for you.
In other words, the guide is a piece of **** that's consistently wrong. Most of Prima's guides are inaccurate in more than one place.

Secondly, let's take another competitive series; Pokemon. Now, if someone plays Pokemon very casually, they probably haven't the slightest idea what EV's, IV's, and the like are, or how to manipulate Hidden Power's type and power, etc. That's because even the official Nintendo guides will not tell you these things. The same goes here, although even more so; the guys making the Prima guide? They're playing it on face value. They're not pushing limits, trying to uncover techniques. Their advanced techniques are Special Attacks and Final Smashes. And I bet that these people, if they entered in a tournament, would lose very early on. As odd as it may seem to you, the fans oftentimes know more than the creators and guide writers about the games. If Sakurai had known there were glitches in the game when it was released, he probably would've fixed them. So he didn't know they were there. The people who create the games are so focused on testing teeny tiny aspects that they can't put in the time to extensively test the game in every department. Guide writers spend the time to investigate one game and write a guide for it, and then they move onto the next one. The fans end up knowing more.

So please, STOP giving the bull defense that the guide says it. PLEASE. You've been told it's not credible and yet you keep insisting that a guide that gave Captain Falcon a 7 and Pikachu, Wario, and Kirby a 5 explains that MK is beatable. They're not using any of the characters the way people in tourneys do, and if MK were banned it would not be in casual, free-for-all, Rumble Falls matches with all items on High.

Jigglymaster · Nov 12, 2008

Does this guy have Wifi so we can beat him up with MK? This thread hasn't been locked yet, the topics filled with stupidity, and this guy thinks Ike > MK.

BTW Projectiles against MK = Usless

MK goes so fast even characters like Rob can't stop him from getting close. 1 Powersheild is all that it takes.

Get close to MK? He'll be close to you. Hit him when your close and when he can't move? Nope, he'll do dsmash untill he hits you and he'll get you on the first or second try.

Metaknight should not be banned

Banned via Warnings

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Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Rookie

You know what? I am good.

Smash Ace

Wah!

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Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Banned via Warnings

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

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Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Master

Smash Ace

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Da Cheef

Banned via Warnings

Smash Lord

Banned via Warnings

Smash Cadet

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Banned via Warnings

Da Cheef

Banned via Warnings

Da Cheef

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You know what? I am good.

Smash Hero

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