Competitive Brawl Rule Set (NOT OFFICIAL)

The primary objective of this rule set is to eliminate the bull**** for tournament play that tournament players shouldn't really have to deal with. The goal of this rule set is to test the skill of the players.

Stages

Starter:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpick:

Castle Siege
Delfino
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1
Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi's Island
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise

Banned:

Corneria
Distant Planet
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Green Greens
Mario Circuit
Onett
Port Town Aero Dive
Skyworld
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

Main Rules

- Matches are 3 stock, 7 minutes. For teams, life stealing is allowed and Team Attack is ON.

- Items are set to “off” and “none”.

- At the beginning of a set, each player may strike 2 stages from the available 12. Of the 2 strikes, only 1 can be from the 3 Neutrals listed above. You may however choose to strike 2 counter pick stages.

- 1st match, characters are chosen with double blind picks, and the stage is chosen on Random with the 3 available neutrals, or if 2 neutrals have been eliminated, the stage will be the last remaining neutral. After that, advanced slob picks- Loser of 1st match pick stages, the winner of the 1st match picks character, then loser of 1st match picks character. Continue this as necessary until the set reaches completion. Standard sets are best of 3, finals or semi-finals are left to the discretion of the tournament host, although best of 5 is recommended for time constraints.

- All forms of stalling are banned. Stalling- The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. This includes MK infinite cape, excessive edge stalling, or any form of stalling under the stage (DK spin, sonic charge B, snake infinite down B teching, etc).

- If the timer runs out, the victor is determined first by stock and then by percentage. In the event of a sudden death, both players are to suicide IMMEDIATELY. No fighting with bombs @ 300. At the results screen, regardless of what the screen says, the player with the higher DAMAGE TAKEN is the loser. No exceptions. In the result of a tie, the match will be discarded and played over, same characters and stage. For teams, if this should ever happen, add the damage taken instead for both teams.

- Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

Side Rules

- In the event that there is a dispute for controller ports or character color choice, both players will play Rock Paper Scissors for it.

- DDD's downthrow step CG/infinite is banned. For DDD's down throw, the normal chain grab is noticeably different from the infinite, as there is a dash between grabs.

- When both players are on their last stocks, Bowser suicide grabs (side B) on the final stock KO result in a win for Bowser regardless of the screen result.

- No continuation sets.

- Dave's Stupid Rule: No player may choose the stage that player last won on (unless agreed upon).

- If a match is stopped for whatever reason, it is started over from the beginning. If a person caused the match to be stopped, that person is removed from the venue. No exceptions.

- BYOC. Bring your own controller. Period. Bring 2 if you can.

- You are responsible for your own controller and name tag. Any malfunctions or errors that occur are your responsibility, so bring an extra controller if possible and always check to make sure you're using the correct settings before a match is played.

- Tamper hacks are banned. Things that do not affect game play (custom music, 3+ minute recording) are fine. No Random Tripping is up to the Tournament Organizer (TO).

- Don't be a douche. The Tournament Organizer (TO) reserves the right at any time to make you leave the tournament. This should never happen. Don't like it, don't come.

- No Johns.

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Special thanks for input from Marc, Mew2King, Remen, JesiahTEG. Special thanks to Seibrik for help with DDD's infinite. Special thanks to Levitas for help with Marth's grab release on Ness/Lucas. Special thanks to Hylian for a competitive stage list.

Nice, sounds like a good set of rules.

Well I like everything except the CP stages... =/ I like it that we have more right now...

- Any suicide KOs on the final stock resulting in sudden death will result in a loss for the user of this tactic. If it would be a suicide KO and the match screen shows a decisive winner, go with that instead. A Bowsercide final KO results in a win for the Bowser player.

Why is this only for Bowser? What if a Ganondorf sideBs you? Isn't it a bit unfair to those other characters?

Why was "Pokémon Stadium 2" banned... :o

otherwise, like this more xD

Ooh, seems pretty good.

The total damage taken seems to be an issue though.
A character like MK who takes less damage than DDD before he dies will have an advantage.
Yes, this problem was already present in the previous rules, but the total damage could potentially increase the light-weight advantage by a scale of 3.

Also, what about after motherboys heal up on the aura sphere?

Everything else seems fine though.

BTW, how do you stall with DK?

Edit: Oh, would stalling now cover planking?

I like this list, only issue I have is RC being banned but I can understand the reasoning behind it.

This actually seems pretty good, I might see if the Waco host will use this a time or two and see how it goes.

Well proposed.

Why, again, do we need someone to tell us this is acceptable, though? I've used these rules myself, at the local tournaments I've hosted.

Ah, well. At least the huddled masses have someone to point to.

Neato, Lylat isn't a neutral anymore =)

And I like the new tie idea.

as stalling is totally subjective, that's the best functional definition available. Ultimately, tournament hosts are responsible to enforce their rules, and regardless of the rule set they adopt, each host has his or her own idea of what stalling is. I actually favor this idea, as the ambiguity of this, along with the unpredictability of the tournament host will hopefully discourage stalling so that it's not a problem anyway. it does, however, cover planking with "excessive edge stalling".

damage taken shows the better player throughout the match, which is the entire goal of sudden death anyway, is it not?

At first I was like "Thats way too many stages to be banned!"
Then I read it, and it just reminds me how sad and uncompetitive brawl is.

Umbreon said:

damage taken shows the better player throughout the match, which is the entire goal of sudden death anyway, is it not?

Click to expand...

If your character is lighter it tends to be faster == less damage taken, but also easier to finish.
Reverse that for heavier.

A player using a heavy character could suffer more damage but still have played better than one using a lighter one.

Edit: Snake trading damage via grenades with MK for instance. Snake can suffer more % damage, but it's considered a better trade for him. Determining victor based on damage taken would say it was worse though.

1 w1nged @ngel said:

At first I was like "Thats way too many stages to be banned!"
Then I read it, and it just reminds me how sad and uncompetitive brawl is.

Click to expand...

You bring up a good point. I never really looked at it that way.

Not taking kills into account, yes.

And haha, one of our local tourneys banned "Anything Plank did at Axis"

I'd really like to know when it actually is stalling...

What if I run away from my opponent and shoot projectiles at him? I guess that's not stalling but I'd really like to know what is. Is it just those things and edge camping? When exactly will it count as edge stalling?

Nice, I just disagree with a few things.

I believe Norfair, japes and RC should be unbanned.

Then I think ganons Suicide should count for win for the ganon as well(that one isnt decided by ports right?)

Then for swallowcides I think it should just be whoever had highest damage when it was done should lose.

Either way Thank your for banning gay infinite

Umbreon said:

Banned
Green Greens

Click to expand...

There goes the only stage Metaknight isn't awesome on.

Umbreon said:

In the event of a sudden death, both players are to suicide IMMEDIATELY. No fighting with bombs @ 300.

Click to expand...

Aww.

Umbreon said:

- Don't be a douche. The tournament host reserves the right at any time to make you leave the tournament. This should never happen.

Click to expand...

This rule should be standard for every tournament.


What's wrong with Jungle Japes?

Anything about the other grab release infinites? Like, iirc, the wario ones?

Yes no stupid counter/banned stuff.
Thank you.

Why is ganon's suicide not under the same rules as Bowser?

The stages are the biggest issue.
Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, and Green Greens banned? There goes three of G&W's best stages. Getting rid of Pirate ship was smart, but this stage list is much too conservative for my liking.

I think the banning of Stalling and the infinite were good calls, though.

I hope this stage list will not get standart... it really takes out all the fun of the game and if we only have so few stages it will get really boring after a while...

CO18 said:

Nice, I just disagree with a few things.

I believe Norfair, japes and RC should be unbanned.

Then I think ganons Suicide should count for win for the ganon as well(that one isnt decided by ports right?)

Then for swallowcides I think it should just be whoever had highest damage when it was done should lose.

Either way Thank your for banning gay infinite

Click to expand...

For clarification, all of the stages banned were banned for a reason. For example, on Norfair, Pikachu can quick attack from edge to edge and remain invincible vs most characters for literally the entire match. Is that stalling? Maybe. What if he's attacking once every 2 minutes and wins on 20%, is it still stalling? When does it become stalling?

There's too much room for debate, to difficult to objectively determine for one side over the other. It's easier to see it for the stupid stage it is and to ban it.

It is a lot of banned stages, I agree. Write a letter to Nintendo telling them to play test their games before release.

I would say that if you don't like the stage list... don't use it. Don't use any of the guidelines you don't agree with, from this list or the other "SBR official" list.

You'll know if people enjoy your rules if they keep coming back.

If you're not a TO, then attend tournies with rules you like. Theoretically, to up attendance, other TOs will start to cater to you to bring you in.

Edit: It's the law of supply and demand.

Umbreon said:

It is a lot of banned stages, I agree. Write a letter to Nintendo telling them to play test their games before release.

Click to expand...

Well many people still like those stages or not? Just call that Pikachu thing stalling if it's unbeatable >.<
And what if you just edgehog Pikachu? He can't do it then...

Umbreon said:

For clarification, all of the stages banned were banned for a reason. For example, on Norfair, Pikachu can quick attack from edge to edge and remain invincible vs most characters for literally the entire match. Is that stalling? Maybe. What if he's attacking once every 2 minutes and wins on 20%, is it still stalling? When does it become stalling?

There's too much room for debate, to difficult to objectively determine for one side over the other. It's easier to see it for the stupid stage it is and to ban it.

It is a lot of banned stages, I agree. Write a letter to Nintendo telling them to play test their games before release.

Click to expand...

Quick attack doesn't make you invincible at all...
If you mean abusing ledge invincibility, you can redict it by putting a lingering hitbox/multihit over Pika when it wears out since all of the ledges are easy to reach.

For the intents and purposes of the rules, I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly. There are stages on there, such as Pictochat, that I personally wouldn't ban. But you are trying to prevent random and uncontrollable events from spawning. I think this rule set fits the bill like an ace.

The only problem I have is that the Strike System is much better than the Random Pick system, and that cannot be done without an odd number of starters.

@#$% yeah, no Jungle Japes or Rainbow Cruise, I HATE those stages with a passion!

It's too bad we can't get literally EVERYBODY to accept these rules...

What's the reasoning for the suicide KO rule?

Ulevo said:

For the intents and purposes of the rules, I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly. There are stages on there, such as Pictochat, that I personally wouldn't ban. But you are trying to prevent random and uncontrollable events from spawning. I think this rule set fits the bill like an ace.

The only problem I have is that the Strike System is much better than the Random Pick system, and that cannot be done without an odd number of starters.

Click to expand...

Oh so you have the first stage set to random?

The striking system was PERFECT. Even if smashville is in like all of my fights the first stage... lol.

Edit: Wait... you can ban 2 stages in those rules so you can ban a neutral an a CP so I think it's good like that.

As long as I never have to play on BF I'm okay with it >.<

I like this list except for one thing:

why in the he77 did you ban 75M??!!11 What's wrong w!th you F***ing Broomers?!!?!1!?
That'z l!ke my favor!te counter-p!ck stage there !s and now !t'z BANNED?!!!?!!!!!111!1ONE!!





P.S.

DKKountry said:

I like this list except for one thing:

why in the he77 did you ban 75M??!!11 What's wrong w!th you F***ing Broomers?!!?!1!?
That'z l!ke my favor!te counter-p!ck stage there !s and now !t'z BANNED?!!!?!!!!!111!1ONE!!





P.S.

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[20:59] Ankoku: I think we should make 75m neutral : D

Someone has you beat, lol.

Umbreon: The reason for giving Bowser the win when he suicides with the suplex was because the result was determined by controller port, which was pretty stupid.

It's still a suicide KO.

This list basically represents another point of view, a more conservative one, than the SBR list does. I've participated in the creation of both, although my role in this one is considerably larger and much more active. Neither philosophy is completely "right", but in my 6 years of tournament experience (both Melee and Brawl) I've always felt interferences (items, stages) should be kept to a minimum. In Europe conservative rulesets are more common and it's much more about player vs player than managing the stage. I think some stages don't measure the skill we're looking for, even if they're not completely random or broken. This list is a lot like the one used in my community and I really enjoyed helping with the creation. I think it's great Umbreon started this and I hope people will adopt this list or something close to it.

I disagree on the stages, as I see Lylat Nuetral, And Luigi's Mansion, Rainbow Cruise, Corneria, and Distant Planet Counterpick. I don't see anything relatively wrong with those stages to be bumped down to Counterpick.banned.
For lylat, its simple. It stops stalling and Spammers, and it doesnt do anything wrong otherwise. If you want ot complain about the ledges, go make FD counterpick.
Luigi's Mansion... Are we SERIOUSLY complaining about Up-Throws on the Top Roof or the Destructable "Cave of life"? seriously. you can blow up the ****ed house, it aint to Hyrule.... Theres always that fau;lt ledge thing, but see Lylat for that.
Rainbow Cruise has nothing to do with me maining MK. Its always been one of my favorite stages, and it only has problems wit Teathers and Stage spawning areas for lulz deaths....
Are we seriously banning that stage for the teathers? BAN IT IF YOUR A TEATHER YOURSELF! Not make it banned for EVERYONE.
If you die form Coneria's Lasers, you REALLY deserved that death. chances are, if your recovering from over there, oyu should be dead anyway. The Close walls are annoying, but help certain chatacters against MK and other lighties which die easily off the side.
Unless you Either Bowser or DK, the water shouldnt really bother you. Its not hard to recover from the other edge or through the bottom. The Pellets can be used for good defensive options for people in high percents without Projectiles. They only do like, 5% damage and dont kill. how much can that be? Also, yea. Just Jum into the giant bugs mouth. Totally an accident.

After I typed all of this, I remembered about D3's Chaingrab, and how it could really hurt on the close walls of Corneria and on the side of Distant planet... but... Banning a stage for one or two characters who rule there or completely die there just doesn't seem right. You ca ban it with the two stages if you know your going up against a DeDeDe, but dont ban them in General!
I never had a problem with any of these stages before. I play other chars too, and they havent bothered me much there either.

Lylat should be on

Flayl said:

Umbreon: The reason for giving Bowser the win when he suicides with the suplex was because the result was determined by controller port, which was pretty stupid.

It's still a suicide KO.

Click to expand...

They gave Bowser the win because although its a suicide, Bowser only controls if he has a lower percentage, so if he suicides, he must have had a lower percentage.

Basically, Bowser's suicide is an extension of the (original) percentage rule, but also factoring in the opponents stupidity if he steers off to suicide, or technical traps like suiciding from a moving platform that'll be gone by the time you crash down.

XienZo said:

They gave Bowser the win because although its a suicide, Bowser only controls if he has a lower percentage, so if he suicides, he must have had a lower percentage.

Basically, Bowser's suicide is an extension of the (original) percentage rule, but also factoring in the opponents stupidity if he steers off to suicide, or technical traps like suiciding from a moving platform that'll be gone by the time you crash down.

Click to expand...

No, there are suicide klaws off stage too, in which the opponent has no chance to make back to the stage.