Pokedex Entry 16: Wario

Steeler · Nov 17, 2008

ITSA WARIO TIME

don't get farted on

i'm pretty sure at least one of the pokemon can do some nasty grab release stuff to wario.

squirtle has a little more range in the air, i think.

ivysaur's vine whip/bullet seed/utilt/UPSMASH RARARA can handle some of wario's approaches if timed and predicted right...

charzy idk. usmash/utilt are both disjointed iirc so that helps a ton. rock smash is great because wario is such a close range guy.

Onxy · Nov 17, 2008

This match seems neutral to me, but I can't really say much since I have to leave very soon.

Zephramrill · Nov 17, 2008

Wario is a like a nastier and heavier version of Squirtle.

Ivysaur has a really tough time with the constant harassment, and because of Warios great airspeed, razor leaf isn't all that useful. Bullet Seed is a champion for countering the DJ Dair approach in this match, use it well.

Charizard does well against wario because he doesn't have a blind spot above him at all. Wario's dair approach can be met by a plethora of options including uptilt and smash, and shieldgrab if the Wario spaces incorrectly. Once Char is in the air, it gets a bit tougher but nair and a well aimed flamethrower or Rock smash can do wonders. Charizard gets a free Upsmash out of the grab release.

Squirtle is basically the same as Wario but lighter and less powerful. This will be all about mind games and baiting Wario into making a mistake in the air. Do not let him eat your shield with the dair approach, and be mindful of Wario's Bite.

MORE LATER

CHOMPY · Nov 17, 2008

Charizard does have his sweetspot aerials and Warios biggest weakness is his range. Just dont be in the air too much though because Wario is so quick in the air and plus Warios moves are faster. All of Charizards special moves out prioitize Warios bike move, including Fly.

The Derrit · Nov 18, 2008

Yeah for wario ivysaur has a hard go of it. Razor leaf does very little and its easy enough for wario to follow you off the stage on his bike that you're even more unsafe than usual if you're off the stage.

Also I played chompy today, my first competitve match since I got to school, and despite horrendous lag and the fact that i'm incredibly rusty it was awesome.

typh · Nov 18, 2008

i hate wario so so so so so so much and i dont even know how to beat him just get completely destroyed by him except in cases where i stumble around and somehow land lucky upsmashes or something and barely pull out a lucky win so i don't even know why i am in here except to tell all of you i hate wario i hate wario I HATE WARIO

Fearmy · Nov 18, 2008

Typh said:
i hate wario so so so so so so much and i dont even know how to beat him just get completely destroyed by him except in cases where i stumble around and somehow land lucky upsmashes or something and barely pull out a lucky win so i don't even know why i am in here except to tell all of you i hate wario i hate wario I HATE WARIO

zori comboed?

Zephramrill · Nov 18, 2008

Wario is definitely one of the toughest matches to learn, but once you learn the matchup it becomes SOOOO much easier to deal with.

PkTrainerCris · Nov 18, 2008

Steeler, dont forget to do the thread on the wario boards
I have zero experience in this matchup, but on paper seems like charizard and squirtle are around neutral an ivy around a slight disadvantage... but ill let you do all the conclutions

Kraryo · Nov 18, 2008

Since Wario is so much like Squirtle, how does Ivysaur fail against him? I assumed that it would be like Ivy vs Sqrtle, except a little harder.

Charizard92 · Nov 18, 2008

To be fair, I am not entirely sure what to think about this.
Well, Wario is a stronger and heavier Squirtle. This wouldn't be a problem, except that means Wario is closer to normal than Squirtle, and in a game where strength is a decent asset and weight is too, that means Wario wins out.
Ivysaur, well, it is essentially facing Squirtle again, except more punishment if he gets close
Charizard, is another cancel out. Wario has a better air game, Charizard makes sure everything is painful. Wario technically can have a decent projectile (bike [namely the broken bits]), But Charizard has a pretty good grab game. Wario has the gas, Charizard has rock smash. I'd have to say even.

DMG · Nov 18, 2008

My posts keep getting lost lol.

Basically, Wario is 60 : 40 with Charizard, 60 : 40 - 65 : 35 with Squirtle, and 65 : 35 vs Ivy IMO.

Charizard tanks and has the best keep away game, Squirtle has the speed and somewhat similar air style, and Ivy has range. I had a detailed post but my stuff keeps on getting deleted or lost before I can post it. I will probably edit this and post a more in depth review if needed. Just throwing those numbers up for now.

Charizard92 · Nov 18, 2008

Wait, who has the advantage now?

PhantomX · Nov 18, 2008

Charizard is definitely the only remotely difficult one for Wario, with grab release, survivability and good damage/killing. Even he is gimpable w/ fair/dairs, however, and Charizard is big and clunky, perfect for biting. Squirtle would actually be the hardest if he didn't die at 70 and have an immense inability to kill Wario. Ivy is just lol, usually gimp him within 30 seconds.

Zephramrill · Nov 18, 2008

PhantomX said:
Charizard is definitely the only remotely difficult one for Wario, with grab release, survivability and good damage/killing. Even he is gimpable w/ fair/dairs, however, and Charizard is big and clunky, perfect for biting. Squirtle would actually be the hardest if he didn't die at 70 and have an immense inability to kill Wario. Ivy is just lol, usually gimp him within 30 seconds.

Good Ivy's dont get gimped in 30 seconds, but everything else you said is true. The fact that warios airspeed and fast aerials CAN punish Ivysaur better than most does mean Ivy will be pressured to recover more than usual.

Charizard92 · Nov 18, 2008

PhantomX said:
Charizard is definitely the only remotely difficult one for Wario, with grab release, survivability and good damage/killing. Even he is gimpable w/ fair/dairs, however, and Charizard is big and clunky, perfect for biting. Squirtle would actually be the hardest if he didn't die at 70 and have an immense inability to kill Wario. Ivy is just lol, usually gimp him within 30 seconds.

errr, you do know what each Pokemon can do right? Charizard is not only going to grab release you, and if I recall, Fly has super armor. Charizard will throw you all over, and will follow you to the air too. Rock Smash, don't forget that. Squirtle, yeah, Wario - weight- strength- bite dealy = Squirtle, so, you get that. if the previous statement is true than Ipso facto Ivysaur's main problem is of course off stage, but what about on stage too? Ivysaur does extrodinarily well against Squirtle. Wario, is going to be harder, but not by much. NOT A SHUTOUT, That's Meta Knight/ Marth/ G & W.

PKNintendo · Nov 20, 2008

Wario can grab release Fair Squirtle JUST so you know.

PkTrainerCris · Nov 20, 2008

can squirtle do something to wario out of a grab release??

Itburns · Nov 20, 2008

PhantomX said:
Charizard is definitely the only remotely difficult one for Wario, with grab release, survivability and good damage/killing. Even he is gimpable w/ fair/dairs, however, and Charizard is big and clunky, perfect for biting. Squirtle would actually be the hardest if he didn't die at 70 and have an immense inability to kill Wario. Ivy is just lol, usually gimp him within 30 seconds.

lulz@ ivysaur exaggeration.
I still dont get why people think ivysaur is automatic lose just because he has a tether recovery.

by those standards you should be able to beat olimar in about a minute and a half.

typh · Nov 20, 2008

nothing kills wario 100-0 in wario's favor

PkTrainerCris · Nov 20, 2008

Ivysaurs anti air game can help a lot on this matchup.....

PKNintendo · Nov 20, 2008

PkTrainerCris said:
can squirtle do something to wario out of a grab release??

EVERYONE can do something to Wario if the grab him over a ledge (not likely in a match)

Wario can lead into a Chomp, Nair, fair, and possible dair.

DMG · Nov 21, 2008

Typh said:
nothing kills wario 100-0 in wario's favor

Lulz I like this explanation; short and exaggerated, yet somewhat true and lulzy.

Ryusuta · Nov 21, 2008

Have I really not seen Ivysaur's back air mentioned even ONCE in this topic so far? For shame, people. For shame.

Steeler · Nov 21, 2008

i'm waiting on maybe playing a few warios at oh snap before i post

i was wondering why no one mentioned that ivysaur's specialty is...you know, anti-air. and wario is all about the air.

PkTrainerCris · Nov 21, 2008

i did mention ivy's anty-air game... and steeler... when are you gonna fight some warios? also... dont forget to do the thread on the wario boards when some PTs with experience against wario (and viceverse) can give their input... i would like to read reflex's analysis on the matchup

Steeler · Nov 21, 2008

OH YEAH

wtf i totally forgot.

reflex is like the only pro dude that mains both.

Charizard92 · Nov 25, 2008

Please tell me we are getting somewhere with this.

DMG · Nov 25, 2008

We are, I think the Wario guys exxagerated stuff though lol. I'll try to set the record straight.

Wario vs Charizard is 55:45 or 60:40 for Wario, Charizard has a hard time landing kill moves on Wario but he makes up for that in having a nice keep away game where he isn't hard pressed to approach Wario much. He also has that dangerous Rock Smash that just manhandles anyone in it's path that we have to watch for.

Wario vs Squirtle is 60:40 or 65:35, I think it's agreed on that basically Wario is similar to Squirtle, just with better overall attributes in most circumstances. He does have some nice things going for him, but the thing that really kills him IMO is his range is even worse overall than Wario's. Most character can proudly say they have more range than Wario, but Squirtle is one of the few that falls short. The fact that he is light and that Wario is good at gimping doesn't help his case much either.

Wario vs Ivysaur is 60:40 or 65:35 as well. I feel that she (It's a she, right? :O) has the best options for keeping Wario away, but unlike Charizard she is no powerhouse or tank unless you get a lucky powerful hit off and avoid Wario's killers. The fact that her recovery is far from stellar isn't that big of a problem/drawback for her IMO, if she had a better recovery it wouldn't help her last much longer anyways since Wario would kill her around the same %'s anyways (She would almost certainly die before 100% just from her weight and how well Wario kills.)

I just feel that Wario overall has a slight advantage over all of them. Nothing **** like what Phantom was talking about vs Ivy lol, that was exxagerated by a long shot.

zeta · Nov 26, 2008

don't we have a grab release with zard?

Charizard92 · Nov 26, 2008

dr.mario guy said:
We are, I think the Wario guys exxagerated stuff though lol. I'll try to set the record straight.

Wario vs Charizard is 55:45 or 60:40 for Wario, Charizard has a hard time landing kill moves on Wario but he makes up for that in having a nice keep away game where he isn't hard pressed to approach Wario much. He also has that dangerous Rock Smash that just manhandles anyone in it's path that we have to watch for.

Wario vs Squirtle is 60:40 or 65:35, I think it's agreed on that basically Wario is similar to Squirtle, just with better overall attributes in most circumstances. He does have some nice things going for him, but the thing that really kills him IMO is his range is even worse overall than Wario's. Most character can proudly say they have more range than Wario, but Squirtle is one of the few that falls short. The fact that he is light and that Wario is good at gimping doesn't help his case much either.

Wario vs Ivysaur is 60:40 or 65:35 as well. I feel that she (It's a she, right? :O) has the best options for keeping Wario away, but unlike Charizard she is no powerhouse or tank unless you get a lucky powerful hit off and avoid Wario's killers. The fact that her recovery is far from stellar isn't that big of a problem/drawback for her IMO, if she had a better recovery it wouldn't help her last much longer anyways since Wario would kill her around the same %'s anyways (She would almost certainly die before 100% just from her weight and how well Wario kills.)

I just feel that Wario overall has a slight advantage over all of them. Nothing **** like what Phantom was talking about vs Ivy lol, that was exxagerated by a long shot.

I'm kind leaning towards the 55:45 Wario vs Charizard here. It is kinda even, mostly because for everything Wario got, Charizard has somethin' too.

Agree with Squirtle

Ivysaur, OK, add what you said plus an anti-air game and it is kinda the same as Charizard here.

Oh, and Ivysaur has an 87.5% chance of being male, so statistics wise, no, Ivysaur is a male.

The Derrit · Nov 26, 2008

dr.mario guy said:
Wario vs Ivysaur is 60:40 or 65:35 as well. I feel that she (It's a she, right? :O) has the best options for keeping Wario away, but unlike Charizard she is no powerhouse or tank unless you get a lucky powerful hit off and avoid Wario's killers. The fact that her recovery is far from stellar isn't that big of a problem/drawback for her IMO, if she had a better recovery it wouldn't help her last much longer anyways since Wario would kill her around the same %'s anyways (She would almost certainly die before 100% just from her weight and how well Wario kills.)

I think that's more or less true, but ivysaur's power shouldn't be underestimated, a bunch of its moves can do some pretty good work that aren't that slow; fair and uair come out quick, and aside from usmash which is clearly really slow the smashes aren't horrid either.

choknater · Nov 26, 2008

wow, DMG is very intelligent

referring to ivy as a girl is tooo good ahaha

PkTrainerCris · Nov 26, 2008

Lets discuss ivy, i think she is the one we are not going to agree soon
Ivy has razor leaf, so a projectile can make wario approach, wario aproaches form the air mostly, and if he does that against ivy hes gonna get hurt, ivy has bullet seed, usmash, utilt, bair,fair,nair, uair,vinewhip and SH razor leaf, imo shes the best anti-aerial character, and wario is gonna have a hard time aproaching, and ivy has the range to keep him at bay
If wario uses the bike to get some projectiles he must be carefull because those can be used ny ivy and she has some interesting stuff with glidetossing
IMO its neutral at worst for ivy

DMG · Nov 26, 2008

choknater said:
wow, DMG is very intelligent

referring to ivy as a girl is tooo good ahaha

Hehe, Ty

Now as for Wario vs Ivy, it's an interesting blend because Ivy isn't really forced to approach, yet in a way she is pressured to do something eventually if Wario just sits back and waits for her to get fatigued or close to fatigued. If something like that happens, she is clearly at a disadvantage having to either get enough time to switch safely by knocking Wario far enough away or she has to live with the fatigue setbacks for a bit. It's nothing really that big IMO, but something interesting I thought of.

Ivy, on her own, can't handle Wario, but her combined with Charizard would give her better chances IMO. She's is pretty good at keeping Wario away, but that only goes so far since she herself is not too excellent on approaching when she has to. 60:40 for Wario.

I do feel that Charizard is probably 55:45, he's one tough cookie.

For Squirtle I think everyone has agreed on something like 60:40 or 65:35.

So guys, any more thoughts/discussion? This was a pretty good discussion compared to when I tried to talk about Wario in that old Matchup Chart lol. :D

PkTrainerCris · Nov 26, 2008

if wario tries to sit back ivy can just switch... that or waiting to be fatigued and then perform a fatigued bullet seed, which deals like 50% at least, razor leaf helps ivy approaching... and she does have some options...

Charizard92 · Nov 26, 2008

I agree on Charizard and Squirtle (My vote goes for 65:35 Wario, Squirtle is the most pathetic of the three [still, it beats C. Falcon]). Ivysaur, on the other hand...

Ignore Fatigue, it is rarely a factor, practically all matchups can be made without fatigue in mind.
Well, Wario is aerial minded, and Ivysaur is anti aerial minded, I'd say advantage Ivysaur, but this is only by like 5 points (45:55 Ivy likely)

PT in general, 50:50. To make it an easier time for Nslider (OK, I have trouble getting your name right ok?!), The reason the score isn't an average of ALL of PT's Pokemon is because PT can get away with using only two. I averaged out the two highest scores.

The Derrit · Nov 28, 2008

Charizard92 said:
Ignore Fatigue, it is rarely a factor, practically all matchups can be made without fatigue in mind.
Well, Wario is aerial minded, and Ivysaur is anti aerial minded, I'd say advantage Ivysaur, but this is only by like 5 points (45:55 Ivy likely)

Agreed with this. FOR ALL NON PT MAINERS: while understanding fatigue is useful, listen to charz92 on this, fatigue is not going to make or break a game; playing to "wait it out" in order to get fatigue started will likely only put you in a worse situation than you need to be.

Toby. · Nov 28, 2008

Fatigue is pretty important actually.

Fatigue forces you to get an extra 25% or so against Wario who is both heavy and extremely mobile.
Fatigue pushes squirtles disadvantage into an even bigger one. Killing wario with a fatigued squirtle is insane. It doesn't hinder ivusaurs anti air spacing game, but it makes killing harder than ever before. Honestly the only pokemon that won't be affected that badly is Charizard, provided you save a move to K.O with.

So yeah, fatigue is important.

Charizard92 · Nov 28, 2008

OK, so it is sorta important, but then again, waiting for fatigue to kick in is horribly unreliable. just standing there waiting for fatigue and two things can happen:

A: you get pummeled because the waiting game never works in smash (unless you have a decent projectile, which Wario doesn't have)
B: They get the ability to switch, with a fresh new Pokemon to kick your ***.

Not reliable at all.

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