Mystic Tomes : Lesser Known Ike Facts

Well, I'm bored and instead of doing anything remotely productive I've decided to post select secrets that I rarely see done in matches (If ever) and that could stem from simply not knowing the full details of Ike's moves. This is going to be a pet project for obscure Ike facts, not stuff like "Fair has IASA frames!" or whatever. If you have anything to add, say so. Also, if this teaches you at least ONE thing you didn't know, this topic's job is complete. To begin:

Did you know....



Eruption
- A fully charged Eruption will break any shield, regardless of health?
- The best way to use Eruption as a ledgeguard is to jump up and begin it, so as to bypass any attacks that might hurt you first?
- The very tip of Eruption's sword portion contains a spike?

Quick Draw
- A reversed Quick Draw can be used to travel from edge to edge and still grab on?
- Quick Draw is the best option if you have an opponent that missed a tech?
- Charging Quick Draw when they have their shield up is a good way to gain a positional advantage by forcing them to either act or deplete their own shield?

Aether
- A reverse Aether can land on the stage if done off of it?
- A reverse Aether is an incredibly lethal edgeguarding tool, able to take out most recoveries if done correctly?
- Aether's ability to grab the edge extends if you manage to hit someone with it?
- Aether can only grab the ledge 5 consecutive times in a row and falls through on the 6th one?
- A reverse Aether grabs the ledge from lower heights than a normal Aether?
- A reverse Aether has the ability to slide up lips such as Final Destination's? This allows you to recover from deeper inwards.

Counter
- Counter is a good option for ledge attacks as most are slow?
- An offstage counter is able to decimate recoveries that are incredibly linear, such as Link's?

Back Aerial
- The Back Aerial is a good option if you Quick Draw past an opponent located on a platform above you as they are located in a prime position for it to hit?
-The arm portion of BAir hits opponents backwards? (toward Ike's front)

Forward Aerial
-The ending animation of FAir hits the opponent backwards? (toward Ike's back)

Up Aerial
-UAir's hitbox starts behind Ike, travels in front, and then goes behind again, with the same power during the entire animation?

Dash Attack
- Running past your opponent and dash attacking will result in you still hitting them with the hilt and them being sent backwards?
- Dash attack can be done at the end of a dash to vary the speed of your run so as to throw off timing?

Up Smash
- USmash does an good job of breaking shields, and due to it's fast charge release and range is a good option to use if running at a shielding opponent?
- USmash covers the entire lower platform of Battlefield if you stand directly under the center?
- USmash can duck under projectiles?

Jab
-If Jab2 misses the combo will reset until it hits?

Down Smash
- A good way to attempt to hit with the second part of Down Smash and deal 29% total is to hit them with a reversed Down Smash, where you catch them with the back of the first hit?

Forward Smash
- Has a center sweetspot?
- Outranges many get up and ledge attacks, as well as several aerials?
- Has heavy pushback, like Up smash and Ftilt, making it very difficult to punish if it sends them to the ledge?

Ftilt
- Ftilt has the exact same horizontal range as Fsmash?


Dtilt
- Dtilt as three hitboxes, a spike, a powerful attack that sends you forward and a weaker one that sends you in reverse?

Up Tilt
- Ike's hand will never result in an Up Tilt sweetspot?
- Up Tilt's long lasting hitbox is a good anti-aerial technique?

You should also point out that actually hitting someone with aether extends your ability to grab the ledge.

I think this is something productive Light. A reminder of some of the basics and every now and then couldn't hurt. You might like to mention that Ftilt, Usmash, and Fsmash can push the opponent back when they shield. Of course(in my experience) never do this consistently though, does anyone know why? I'm pretty sure they aren't powershielding when I execute the attack.

And its always fun playing Light, despite the lag

Rykoshet said:

You should also point out that actually hitting someone with aether extends your ability to grab the ledge.

Click to expand...

Done, thanks.

XZA143 said:

I think this is something productive Light. A reminder of some of the basics and every now and then couldn't hurt. You might like to mention that Ftilt, Usmash, and Fsmash can push the opponent back when they shield. Of course(in my experience) never do this consistently though, does anyone know why? I'm pretty sure they aren't powershielding when I execute the attack.

And its always fun playing Light, despite the lag

Click to expand...

Yeah, I just tested it out. The pushback is enormous unless they powershield, in which case they get no pushback and are free to hurt you.

And it's incredibly fun playing you too, thanks for the compliment!

secrets? how is aether landing on the stage and Fsmash having a its SS in the middle secret? A lot of these things are very very common knowledge. Others are untrue like Bair poking. Every attack pokes if the shield doesn't cover the area of the hurt box. Some attacks like Dtilts and aether just aim or cover those places which is why they poke so easily.

This seems like a cool idea. The only thing I know is that if you try to Aether grab the ledge 5 times in a row, you'll Aethercide the 5th time.

You said things that you rarely see in matches and I rarely see that so why not add it?

isn't it 6 times?

It's actually the 6th time Xace.

Also I've made people auto-snap the ledge thansk to the enormous pushback from FSmash/FTilt/etc., make it impossible to punish that way unless they PS the attack.

Edit: Here's a good fact...

Did you know...
Nair: Will get you KILLED if you try and ledgedrop with this attack?

or spot dodge and roll.

My mistake on the Aether thing. X(

Well Ike has a crappy version of the WoP with his b-air and f-air. I see Ikes use this every once in a while but not often. It really depends on your opponents % and DI.

Ah yeah, connecting Bairs after Bairs is fun.

YagamiLight said:

Done, thanks.



Yeah, I just tested it out. The pushback is enormous unless they powershield, in which case they get no pushback and are free to hurt you.

And it's incredibly fun playing you too, thanks for the compliment!

Click to expand...

I see now, thanks a lot. I've found the push-back effect can be helpful at times since you pretty much attack, they get pushed back and shield is eaten, back to square one without receiving any punishment. Now they have a depleted shield and your life is a little easier.

Arturito_Burrito said:

secrets? how is aether landing on the stage and Fsmash having a its SS in the middle secret? A lot of these things are very very common knowledge. Others are untrue like Bair poking. Every attack pokes if the shield doesn't cover the area of the hurt box. Some attacks like Dtilts and aether just aim or cover those places which is why they poke so easily.

Click to expand...

I've just seen a lack of knowledge of both reverse Aether and the SS of Fsmash, so I thought I'd mention it. As for Bair's poking, I'll remove that mention.

XACE-K said:

This seems like a cool idea. The only thing I know is that if you try to Aether grab the ledge 5 times in a row, you'll Aethercide the 5th time.

You said things that you rarely see in matches and I rarely see that so why not add it?

Click to expand...

It's 6 times, and sure I'll add it.

Kinzer said:

It's actually the 6th time Xace.

Also I've made people auto-snap the ledge thansk to the enormous pushback from FSmash/FTilt/etc., make it impossible to punish that way unless they PS the attack.

Edit: Here's a good fact...

Did you know...
Nair: Will get you KILLED if you try and ledgedrop with this attack?

Click to expand...

I think everyone knows that offstage Nairs are suicide....

XZA143 said:

I see now, thanks a lot. I've found the push-back effect can be helpful at times since you pretty much attack, they get pushed back and shield is eaten, back to square one without receiving any punishment. Now they have a depleted shield and your life is a little easier.

Click to expand...

I'll put a mention of it under Fsmash then.

So why not add it? It's a small fact... ah well, your thread.

USmash covers the entire lower platform of Battlefield if you stand directly under the center?

The ending animation of FAir hits the opponent backwards? (toward Ike's back)

The arm portion of BAir hits opponents backwards? (toward Ike's front)

UAir's hitbox starts behind Ike, travels in front, and then goes behind again, with the same power during the entire animation?

More to come if I think of any.

By the way, you may want to clarify the Eruption spike thing by saying it's the tip of the sword; people *may* think you mean the tip of the fire pillar.

Kinzer said:

So why not add it? It's a small fact... ah well, your thread.

Click to expand...

Thing is, Kinzer, that the first thing new Ike's learn is the Nairicide. Well, actually no, second. First is spamming the AAA combo until that leads to a Nairicide.

metroid1117 said:

USmash covers the entire lower platform of Battlefield if you stand directly under the center?

The ending animation of FAir hits the opponent backwards? (toward Ike's back)

The arm portion of BAir hits opponents backwards? (toward Ike's front)

UAir's hitbox starts behind Ike, travels in front, and then goes behind again, with the same power during the entire animation?

More to come if I think of any.

By the way, you may want to clarify the Eruption spike thing by saying it's the tip of the sword; people *may* think you mean the tip of the fire pillar.

Click to expand...

All items added.

Many thanks.

U smash ducks under projectiles.

Uair's hit box has a lower altitude behind Ike.

eruption only spikes on stage. I'm not to sure on this one but its what I remember people saying back in march and no one has landed a spike yet.

Dash attack can be canceled some how if done close to the ledge or on a platform and leads to a Bair. It's a real combo I think but don't remember how its done exactly,

Wtf is that fist thing on QD? travel from edge to edge and still grab one? I'm not sure what this means QD won't grab onto the stage is its moving ontop of it and it won't move trough the walls.

QD is not the best option to punish a missed tech. If there is a wall or are close to the ledge then they have no where to run and charging a Usmash/Fsmash is a much better option. QD is just easy to land since it follows them.

Smart people won't call for that charging BS. 75% of the cast can just and will shoot you if they are smart. Plus if you are at the full length of an uncharged QD away they will have time to react to it by dropping there shield and just attacking you.

Seriously the move sucks.

counter:
Fair and Ftilt are better options. Reason that you don't see these things used are because of that. Most ledge attacks are actually fast but they get slower past 100%

up smash:
Ike doesn't have a shield pressure game lol. Doesn't really work like you make it sound

Dsmash:

only works at like 0% and if the opponent DI's wrong.

Fsmash: hard to punish? lmao its very easy to punish only time its safe is if it pushes someone off the ledge or hits them.



Questions require answers.

Actually I think for F-Smash it's more of that the tip of Ike's sword is a sourspot rather than the center being a sweetspot, because even when you're dead close in front of Ike it still kills pretty easily.

EDIT: Burrito, the QD charging actually is a pretty good mindgame if you pull it out every once in awhile. Letting the opponent drain their own shield is a good thing.

HeroMystic said:

Actually I think for F-Smash it's more of that the tip of Ike's sword is a sourspot rather than the center being a sweetspot, because even when you're dead close in front of Ike it still kills pretty easily.

EDIT: Burrito, the QD charging actually is a pretty good mindgame if you pull it out every once in awhile. Letting the opponent drain their own shield is a good thing.

Click to expand...

I know. It's always amusing to hit someone with the tip of Ike's Fsmash and Star KO them.

Fun fact, and usefull too:

If a opponent is recovering quickly run of stage and Aether them, the first hit from Aether should stagespike them resulting in an instant death (unrecoverable even at low % me thinks). Just make sure to land on the stage, if you miss and try to grab the edge you might get edgehogd

Do note, i've only done this couple of times so some facts might be off ^^
Could be nice to mix up your edge-game

My one contribution before I get on my plane back to Action Heights. :o

-Fsmash and Ftilt have the exact same attack range.

Neat.

Kirk said:

My one contribution before I get on my plane back to Action Heights. :o

-Fsmash and Ftilt have the exact same attack range.

Neat.

Click to expand...

Strangly...this surprises me

Me too. >_>

If what Kirk says is true, we should use Ftilt more often than Fsmash because if I recall, Ftilt comes out faster than Fsmash and can be tilted upwards or downwards.

eruption only spikes on stage. I'm not to sure on this one but its what I remember people saying back in march and no one has landed a spike yet.

Click to expand...

I've heard of a few people landing Eruption spikes offstage and killing with it.

ilovekimchixD said:

If what Kirk says is true, we should use Ftilt more often than Fsmash because if I recall, Ftilt comes out faster than Fsmash and can be tilted upwards or downwards.

Click to expand...

You should use Ftilt over Fsmash anyway, it's way faster. Fsmash is stronger but slower, good for punishing rolls etc.
But still ... same range? xD

Actually, Fsmash hits behind and above you as well but Ftilt doesn't, so Ftilt doesn't have the exact same attack range.

Nidtendofreak said:

Actually, Fsmash hits behind and above you as well but Ftilt doesn't, so Ftilt doesn't have the exact same attack range.

Click to expand...

Kirk was probably talking about horizontal range.

UTilt: Hitting with Ike's hand will never result in a sweetspot, no matter when you use the attack?

DTilt: DTilt has 3 hitboxes: one that spikes, one that hits like FTilt, and another that sends them farther up and is weaker?

metroid1117 said:

Kirk was probably talking about horizontal range.

UTilt: Hitting with Ike's hand will never result in a sweetspot, no matter when you use the attack?

DTilt: DTilt has 3 hitboxes: one that spikes, one that hits like FTilt, and another that sends them farther up and is weaker?

Click to expand...

i've sometimes gotten the one that's pretty much a Ftilt..but how do you get it to use that hitbox? It's happend some times by accident. Do you have to Dtilt just before they land or something...vaugly remember somthing like that.

Maybe its a handy addition btw that if you get some one diagonally above you and you hold down A ike can generate a small 'jab lock'. It's not secret but not everyone knows it me thinks =]

Maybe its a handy addition btw that if you get some one diagonally above you and you hold down A ike can generate a small 'jab lock'. It's not secret but not everyone knows it me thinks =]

Click to expand...

The only person I've pulled that off on is the Sandbag. >_>

HeroMystic said:

EDIT: Burrito, the QD charging actually is a pretty good mindgame if you pull it out every once in awhile. Letting the opponent drain their own shield is a good thing.

Click to expand...

Being a mind game automatically gives it a chance of failing and its not even a good one because of how long it takes for QD to travel so a shield isn't even needed and even if they do shield they can just jump.

You're trying to force a jump just to clear the way. QD charging for absolutely no reason is generally trying to get someone out of your face, every option they tend to have is just a stall and gives you m ore time to think.

forcing a jump doesn't seem like such a big deal, it could disrupt the flow of the match but it could also just get you shot and then hit with some sort of follow up.

Plus this can back fire on you really bad. If they don't shield then they just have to sit there and PS QD to punish you with a Ftilt or Smash attack depending on the character. (thinking of snake and MK right now)

Don't use it against someone whose in range to shoot you unless the animation of their pulling out a projectile can be covered by the distance/time it takes for QD to hit them? Or take the shot (and subsequent lack of stun) and continue as normal. It's a stall for time, any reaction they have that isn't immediately getting out of the way buys that for you, and their getting out of the way just gives you what you want.

oh and For an example of aether grab range extending.

I don't think theres a projectile that takes 30 frames to come out. Which is an uncharged QD at max range. So unless your like right in front of them everyone has time to shoot you and most people can reach.

I think its more like if they shield it stalls the match but any other reaction just puts you in a disadvantage because now you have 2 options, go forward or stand there.

If they're at max range then they don't qualify as "in your face" to begin with...

max range of an uncharged QD. Not sure if this qualifies as out of it. Anyways if they're in your face why wouldn't you just go for a grab or jab?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207554 might be a nice thing to add to the grab catagory
they might be stupid enough to let you hit them with QD and kill them

Nidtendofreak said:

The only person I've pulled that off on is the Sandbag. >_>

Click to expand...

Same, but i've seen Kirk pull it off in some matches on his Youtube account, so it must be do-able ;p

It's easy when you know how!

It's pretty easy to do. I've done it a few times.