MetaKnight's disadvantages

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

Hi guys I'am here with a 2 threads on Metaknight and yes I did check the Sonic archive and no threads like this except for the disscusion board but that already finished so here is the 2 links also keep it clean please low spam and a little cursing would be great because I searched a long time for this and I don't want this to be locked up so here is the links a MK mega collection also one of the threads contains Sonic's frame data.

Tips vs. Metaknight made by: M2K
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199063

MetaKnights weakness~ (No joke topic) made by: Gheb 01
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203145&highlight=Meta+Knight%27s+weakness

The Offical SBR Podcast! (EP.1 DL,UP EP.2 delay) made by: Youko
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201664

Meta Knight's frame data made by: hotgarbage
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

Sonic's frame data made by: djbrowny
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196148

New Technique Edge Grabbing by: |Melee1|
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207554

Improving in a matchup/MK help thread by: JesianTEG
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204073

The elements of brawl: Zoning Spacing and Killing made by: DRaGZ
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199108

Metaknight's Exploitable Weakness~ made by: Ulevo
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205048

Weight Lists made by: M2K
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162374

Toby. · Nov 27, 2008

What a strange thing to have in the sonic forum.

They made for interesting reading at the time of their creation though.

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

Well it's suppose to help agaisnt the Meta Knight issue.

infomon · Nov 27, 2008

Srsly, I have a miserable time trying to approach MK. His stupid unique priority mechanics for his ground moves....... is frustrating; his attacks don't clash with anything, and they're very fast/lagless; I have a really hard time approaching, and spacing jabs/tilts/smashes, since they need to be positioned in a way to never let our hurtbox within his ridiculous range.

And we lose in the air, too

how do you ppl fight MK?

~ Gheb ~ · Nov 27, 2008

tcranter said:
They made for interesting reading at the time of their creation though.

Way to put down mine and m2k's efforts

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

infzy said:
Srsly, I have a miserable time trying to approach MK. His stupid unique priority mechanics for his ground moves....... is frustrating; his attacks don't clash with anything, and they're very fast/lagless; I have a really hard time approaching, and spacing jabs/tilts/smashes, since they need to be positioned in a way to never let our hurtbox within his ridiculous range.

And we lose in the air, too how do you ppl fight MK?

Well I read some of the thread link I posted and bascially you have to DSI something like that and tilt your sheild up with his tornado and then punish also edgehog when he is drill rushing you also it said spam your projectiles and then wait for him to come and dash grab if you want more info please read the link I posted.

Napilopez · Nov 27, 2008

We did have a large VS MK thread here, but sure watevs its 8AM and I'm bored so I'll type up some stuff Sonic DOES has over MK, and what he CAN do against him. These are in no particular order or organized at all.

1) He's light: Sonic is heaver, and overall has better side/top-KO survivability.

2) MKs shield is horrible: it is, really. all it takes is a couple of attacks to diminish it, and you get free shield pokes. Heck, you don't even have to hit him to diminish it. If you unnecessarily prolong spin chargefrom a mid-close range, at least half players will just hold up shield for a bit waiting for you to release, so the can spot dodge or watevs. Prolong your spindashes/charges for a second or 2, and then release and go into an fair for easy shield pokeage. And if they decide to spotdodge spam instead, thats just baits for other options. So yea, after having diminished his shield just a little bit, you can poke it with fair/ftilt, go under it easily with dtilt.

3) Transcended hitboxes: Wait what? Isn't that way makes him priority awesome? One one hand yes. But realize that if you use moves that have longer range than his, then he loses because his moves cant clang. Basically, his ground moves work like aerials. Its all about hitbox and hurbox overlap. So well spaced Bairs, ftilts, and dtilts are very much your friend here.

4) MK eats SDR combos. Give it a try sometime. Obviously you cant SDR from across the stage, as a dtilt actually WILL stop you, lolz. But dont be afraid to use ASC>Land>SDR. Or you can even prolong the charge from ASC until you actually touch the floor every once in awhile, that will help your shield poke game too by causing MKs to prolong shield up time. Furthermore, theres something about his hurtbox that makes him eat SDR combos as well as a larger character for some reason. I think it may be wider than tall, idk. It might just be his round shape, and horrible airspeed/acceleration that make him so succeptible to such combos.

5) MK has horrible maneuverability in the air: MK cannot chase you well in the air. He can't. His aispeed is like the third worst in the game or something like that, whilst you're zooming all about. His air accelaration is barely better than yours, meaning he can't even weave attacks very well. Against most characters, MK does very well when his opponent is above them, thanks to shuttle loop,but that frankly is a bad position for MK to be in against Sonic. At first, most MKs will try to shuttle loop you if you are above them. Its soooo predictable(which I will talk about in a later point). All you need to do is upB, and the springbomb will totally cancel out his shuttle loop. Heck, if he does use shuttle loop, this is one time where it IS good to be nooby and spring>dair alot, because it just combos so easily after a failed shuttle loop. MK cant chase you well with normal jumping if you are above him, because its just sooo slow. And spring will hit him anyways.

Eventually, the MK will begin to realize that there is absolutely no point in trying to shuttle loop you, and will stop chasing you when you are above them in the air. They'll try to punsih your landing instead. I think we're smart enough to avoid that.

6) Shuttle loop/Glide attack stink against Sonic: What I said before. Shuttle loop doesn't really work against in most situations unless its being used as a punisher. In which case, MK could have just used any other attack. Simply put, its less effective. You should all know by now that Uair and Fair totally beat out glide attack. Basically, if mk is in a shuttle loop/glide animation, and you hit them with one of the aformentioned moves, there isnt anything MK can do but take the damage.

7) MK is gonna have a tough time gimping Sonic: Sonics recovery has an odd movement. It doesn't generally move diagonally like a typical characters recovery. Sonic can chose to safely recover from below(again, Uair beats out his Dair), he can recover more horizontally with SideB. While most characters have a predictable pattern of recovery, Sonic has many options. If he choses to recover from above, spring comes into play agian. Shuttle loop just isnt an effective gimper against sonic either. Contact with spring destroys it, and invincy frames help too =P. MK gets about as many gimps on Sonic as Sonic does on him. Oh and MK is quite succeptible to quick run off the stage bair spikes, because his vertical rise through jumping is so slow.

8) His attacks are shieldgrab tastic. Not much hitstun I believe, he cant weave aerials well so you can shielgrab those from a run into sliding shield.

9) MKs attacks are quick. But they are not lagless. This is where our own version of speed comes in. Shield grab, Powershield grab. You can forexample, if you predict it, run away from MKs dsmash, and use a DDP to grab him during endlag.Try it against Snake's tilts too.

10)MK can't KO you easily if you can DI. Seeing as he can't gimp you well, and overall his offstage game against you is relatively lackluster thanks to your recovery.

11) I think MK is quite the predictable character. But blasphemy you say? Predictability is a player based aspect? While this may be true, I do believe certain characters allow for more elements of unpredictability than others, and MK really isn't one these. The thing that makes MK difficult however, is that even if you do predict his moves, they're just so darn quick. But still my point stands. If you are above them, they will shuttle loop, or return to the ground. After a glide attack or completion of a Nado, they will dsmash. If you approach they will dtilt. Etc. Punishhh.

How to deal with Nado:

-If MK has his nado out to bait a landing or watever, just using homing attack. Homing attack will always be your best option against nado in the air so long as you're not directly above him. It really hits him out of it 80+% of the time, especially if you know HA mechanics well. If you are on the ground, you can just jump and use HA. It works. Don't be afroid of acting like noobs spamming homing attack. If in a battle you both spam the B button alone, homing attack will win. Just don't be afraid to NOT cancel the HA sometimes to get a better lock or to rise a bit it MKs nado is rising.

-YOU CAN SDI OUT OF NADO. Seriously people, do it. Sonic isn't the largest character, he isn't destroyed by nado as badly as some other chars are. I just mash up on the control stick when I'm being Nado'd, and at least half the time ill get out nowadays. Once you get out you can easily spring to safety while knocking him out of the nado, or you can use homing attack. Your choice.

-You can also try what espy did to DMK. Spring as he approached, causing MK to hit the spring and accidentally drill rush and leave himself in a punishable position.

Taeran · Nov 27, 2008

Find your highest priority attack, but that, unforetunetly, might not even beat out MK's tornado.
Remember, when fighting MK (I tried to play him, I hate his playstyle), his moves have almost no lag(except for f-smash) so he has almost no mindgames.

Use yours.

My lowly 2 cents.

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

Napilopez said:
We did have a large VS MK thread here, but sure watevs its 8AM and I'm bored so I'll type up some stuff Sonic DOES has over MK, and what he CAN do against him. These are in no particular order or organized at all.

1) He's light: Sonic is heaver, and overall has better side/top-KO survivability.

2) MKs shield is horrible: it is, really. all it takes is a couple of attacks to diminish it, and you get free shield pokes. Heck, you don't even have to hit him to diminish it. If you unnecessarily prolong spin chargefrom a mid-close range, at least half players will just hold up shield for a bit waiting for you to release, so the can spot dodge or watevs. Prolong your spindashes/charges for a second or 2, and then release and go into an fair for easy shield pokeage. And if they decide to spotdodge spam instead, thats just baits for other options. So yea, after having diminished his shield just a little bit, you can poke it with fair/ftilt, go under it easily with dtilt.

3) Transcended hitboxes: Wait what? Isn't that way makes him priority awesome? One one hand yes. But realize that if you use moves that have longer range than his, then he loses because his moves cant clang. Basically, his ground moves work like aerials. Its all about hitbox and hurbox overlap. So well spaced Bairs, ftilts, and dtilts are very much your friend here.

4) MK eats SDR combos. Give it a try sometime. Obviously you cant SDR from across the stage, as a dtilt actually WILL stop you, lolz. But dont be afraid to use ASC>Land>SDR. Or you can even prolong the charge from ASC until you actually touch the floor every once in awhile, that will help your shield poke game too by causing MKs to prolong shield up time. Furthermore, theres something about his hurtbox that makes him eat SDR combos as well as a larger character for some reason. I think it may be wider than tall, idk. It might just be his round shape, and horrible airspeed/acceleration that make him so succeptible to such combos.

5) MK has horrible maneuverability in the air: MK cannot chase you well in the air. He can't. His aispeed is like the third worst in the game or something like that, whilst you're zooming all about. His air accelaration is barely better than yours, meaning he can't even weave attacks very well. Against most characters, MK does very well when his opponent is above them, thanks to shuttle loop,but that frankly is a bad position for MK to be in against Sonic. At first, most MKs will try to shuttle loop you if you are above them. Its soooo predictable(which I will talk about in a later point). All you need to do is upB, and the springbomb will totally cancel out his shuttle loop. Heck, if he does use shuttle loop, this is one time where it IS good to be nooby and spring>dair alot, because it just combos so easily after a failed shuttle loop. MK cant chase you well with normal jumping if you are above him, because its just sooo slow. And spring will hit him anyways.

Eventually, the MK will begin to realize that there is absolutely no point in trying to shuttle loop you, and will stop chasing you when you are above them in the air. They'll try to punsih your landing instead. I think we're smart enough to avoid that.

6) Shuttle loop/Glide attack stink against Sonic: What I said before. Shuttle loop doesn't really work against in most situations unless its being used as a punisher. In which case, MK could have just used any other attack. Simply put, its less effective. You should all know by now that Uair and Fair totally beat out glide attack. Basically, if mk is in a shuttle loop/glide animation, and you hit them with one of the aformentioned moves, there isnt anything MK can do but take the damage.

7) MK is gonna have a tough time gimping Sonic: Sonics recovery has an odd movement. It doesn't generally move diagonally like a typical characters recovery. Sonic can chose to safely recover from below(again, Uair beats out his Dair), he can recover more horizontally with SideB. While most characters have a predictable pattern of recovery, Sonic has many options. If he choses to recover from above, spring comes into play agian. Shuttle loop just isnt an effective gimper against sonic either. Contact with spring destroys it, and invincy frames help too =P. MK gets about as many gimps on Sonic as Sonic does on him. Oh and MK is quite succeptible to quick run off the stage bair spikes, because his vertical rise through jumping is so slow.

8) His attacks are shieldgrab tastic. Not much hitstun I believe, he cant weave aerials well so you can shielgrab those from a run into sliding shield.

9) MKs attacks are quick. But they are not lagless. This is where our own version of speed comes in. Shield grab, Powershield grab. You can forexample, if you predict it, run away from MKs dsmash, and use a DDP to grab him during endlag.Try it against Snake's tilts too.

10)MK can't KO you easily if you can DI. Seeing as he can't gimp you well, and overall his offstage game against you is relatively lackluster thanks to your recovery.

11) I think MK is quite the predictable character. But blasphemy you say? Predictability is a player based aspect? While this may be true, I do believe certain characters allow for more elements of unpredictability than others, and MK really isn't one these. The thing that makes MK difficult however, is that even if you do predict his moves, they're just so darn quick. But still my point stands. If you are above them, they will shuttle loop, or return to the ground. After a glide attack or completion of a Nado, they will dsmash. If you approach they will dtilt. Etc. Punishhh.

How to deal with Nado:

-If MK has his nado out to bait a landing or watever, just using homing attack. Homing attack will always be your best option against nado in the air so long as you're not directly above him. It really hits him out of it 80+% of the time, especially if you know HA mechanics well. If you are on the ground, you can just jump and use HA. It works. Don't be afroid of acting like noobs spamming homing attack. If in a battle you both spam the B button alone, homing attack will win. Just don't be afraid to NOT cancel the HA sometimes to get a better lock or to rise a bit it MKs nado is rising.

-YOU CAN SDI OUT OF NADO. Seriously people, do it. Sonic isn't the largest character, he isn't destroyed by nado as badly as some other chars are. I just mash up on the control stick when I'm being Nado'd, and at least half the time ill get out nowadays. Once you get out you can easily spring to safety while knocking him out of the nado, or you can use homing attack. Your choice.

-You can also try what espy did to DMK. Spring as he approached, causing MK to hit the spring and accidentally drill rush and leave himself in a punishable position.

Thanks it's the least we could do against MK.

Napilopez · Nov 27, 2008

infzy said:
Srsly, I have a miserable time trying to approach MK. His stupid unique priority mechanics for his ground moves....... is frustrating; his attacks don't clash with anything, and they're very fast/lagless; I have a really hard time approaching, and spacing jabs/tilts/smashes, since they need to be positioned in a way to never let our hurtbox within his ridiculous range.

And we lose in the air, too how do you ppl fight MK?

I just posted a wall of text, but to answer your question directly:

You play MK by outranging him. Ftilt. You realize that while a huge strength, his transcendent hitboxes also leave him utterly helpless when your hitbox outranges his? MK can be very easy to approach.

First of all, MKs like to approach. They like to be on the offensive. Its not even so much a player based thing. It just suits the character. You use Sonic, the quickest running character in the game. Although it may seem otherwise, MKs moves are NOT lagless. Fighting MK for me is all about playing with quick reflexes, not so much ATs and stuff. Simple quick reflexes and inputs. Because Sonic is one of the few chracters than actually CAN punish the ending lag on his moves.

You have to space to remain right oughtside MKs range. Use your tilts as a spacing tool, especially ftilt. Your ftilt is basically the maximum of his usable range.

From there, rely on your grab game. His attacks are quite spotdodgeable(don't rolldodge... please) and dashdance pivots work soooo well here. His attacks don't have particularly high amounts of shield stun, so running shield grabs are so effective against him. He does have ending lag on several of his moves that you can easily punish so long as you're right outside his range.

And as I've said before, punishment with Sonic is different. You aren't punishing just punishing bad choices, you can punish virtually any whiffed move because of your running shield grab...

Oh, and SDR works wonders on MK. Just dont do it from acros FD and get dtilted lawl. But if you SDR from ASC or from sideB, his low aerial maneuverability and round body shape or something makes it soooo easy to combo into him.

And destroy his shield. Its horrible. Shield pressure by prolonging the Charge phases of DownB and SideB, and then proceed to use Fair, ftilt, and dtilt. They will all easily get past his shield.

Does anyone one the Sonic boards play a decent MK? I'd like to test some of my own theories against a decent MK... because I've yet to face one to prove me how difficult this matchup is =/ Unless the connection is garbage and I can't time anything at all.

Napilopez · Nov 27, 2008

Taeran said:
Find your highest priority attack, but that, unforetunetly, might not even beat out MK's tornado.
Remember, when fighting MK (I tried to play him, I hate his playstyle), his moves have almost no lag(except for f-smash) so he has almost no mindgames.

Use yours.

My lowly 2 cents.

I'm sorry, but this doesnt... help much. Thanks though.

Priority isn't just a number value(well, in most cases).

As stated before, your best option against tornado is homing attack. People are still afraid to use it against it. DONT BE. Its absolutely pwns it. Its so simple. MK is vulnerable at the top of his nado. HA tries to hit people from overhead. Voila. Of course, if you are directly above MK, spring is your best option. And yea, SDI out of nado. It really isnt that hard for Sonic.

If your good enough, make MK cancel his Nado's on a spring. It will leave him highly vulnerable, especially if he accidentally inputs a SideB as he likely will at some point.

His moves have litle lag. But Sonic can cover great distances in very little time. Since MKs attacks has lackluster shieldstun, and he can't weave his aerials well, shieldgrabs against him are sooooo easy.

I dont mean to sound like Sonic has the advantage or anything here at all. But its not a bad matchup at all imo if you both know how to play eachother.

da K.I.D. · Nov 27, 2008

you down play MKs strengths dude,

you said yourself that you have to play a reflexive, range based game. but spacing a f-tilt/smash which doesnt outrange MK by THAT MUCH is hard. trying to play with such perfect spacing while having a game with 2 of the 5 fastest characters in the game is not an easy task

its funny, HA always targets the foes back, but with tornado, MK is spinning so fast that his back is basically facing both sides at once, so it only makes sence that it would be super accurate against him

da K.I.D. · Nov 27, 2008

p.s. a ninja assassin came into the sonic boards and killed a bunch of our threads.

now if you tell me now, nobody will get hurt

who reported my race thread?

Tenki · Nov 27, 2008

?___?...

lol napi, XD

You weird people and trying to outprioritize stuff.

SHIELD:
Tornado
- Punishing tornado out of shield is one of the best/most reliable choices. Let's say he hits you, then he starts to retreat for about 10-20 frames. In those 10-20 frames that he's retreating, you can be releasing shield and/or starting to run after him. He will have 29 frames of ending unless he's really high up, in which case he's gonna be falling for a longer time. That total time of retreat+end is a little over half a second. Definitely punishable with a grab if he's under half the stage away, and dash attack if he's further. Yeah. Name a character that can run up and grab MK after tornado almost no matter where he is on the stage.

Shuttle Loop/Glide
- Shuttle loop. If you see it coming, shield the rise, because after that, he goes into...
- - Glide - MK's glide attack cannot beat your aerials. So if you shield the rising part, or if he misses it, jump an aerial out of shield. If you have time/space/reflexes to do it (example, if you powershield the rise), then use a VSDJ/SDJ against glide, then combo that into an aerial. At low %'s, you can get a 7% extra. At higher %'s, you might not be able to combo VSDJ with an aerial due to the knockback.

D-smash
- Honestly, you're better off just watching for when he misses this, because many MK's will "miss" D-smashes (spam them). From the front, it has about 28 frames of cooldown. That's nearly half a second. If you're being attentive, that's actually quite a bit of time to ... well, punish him with like, anything. Even a grab from 1/3 of FD away.

F-air
- This one, you'll have to rely on Sonic's speed to screw up your opponent's spacing. If he's too close (say, you're in the middle of his F-air), you can shieldgrab him out of it. But for the sake of solidity, let's look at some frame data.

hotgarbage said:
FAIR

frame breakdown:
1-5 startup
6-7 hitbox out
8-9
10-11 hitbox out
12
13-14 hitbox out
15-39 aerial cooldown

frame summary:
duration: 39
1st hit on: 6
2nd hit on: 10
3rd hit on: 13
aerial cooldown: 25
landing lag: 15
autocancels on: 21

SHORT HOP
...
duration: 38 frames
air time: 32 frames
landing lag: 2 frames

SHFF
...
duration: 34 frames
air time: 26 frames
landing lag: 4 frames

So... from this, if MK does a shorthop rising F-air (in other words, he starts it as he jumps, just like our SH F-airs), which is pretty common, he can't double jump. This means he must fall. But how much time does he have before he can do anything?
The last hit of F-air is on frame 14. If he fastfalls, he has 14 frames (26 total airtime-14 for the last hit, +4 frames of fastfall landing lag) of "dead time". Let's assume that, like MK's other moves, it has 1 frame of hitstun. 13 frames left. In those 13 frames, you can try to SH a counter F-air out of shield (let's guess 3 frames of jump startup, and 4 frames of F-air startup), or you can release shield (7 frames), leaving you with 6 frames to counterattack. So, statistically, you can punish this with something like an instant dash attack out of shield, not even counting his reaction time if he's not expecting it.

but check this out. If he misses a F-air, that's 14-20 frames that you can use to run up and dash attack from out of his range, or catch him with a spindash combo.

In the air, he has 25 frames of aerial cooldown, so if he mis-spaces an F-air and you fastfall under him, you can double jump up into him with an aerial of your own.

Oh, and for the luls:
D-tilt

hotgarbage said:
DTILT

frame breakdown:
1-2 startup
3-4 hitbox out
5-15 cooldown

frame summary:
duration: 15
hits on frame: 3
cooldown: 11
shield stun: 1
advantage: -11
OOS advantage: -4

This does include IASA frames.

Sonic doesn't really have any good 'guaranteed' OoS options for this move except for SH rising aerials/spring.

If he 'misses' (spams) it, you can try to make use of Sonic's speed and spindash, dash attack, or run in front of him and prepare to pshield his next attack during the 11 frames of opening he has. If you run/walk inside his D-tilt range, what's he gonna do? Walk back and make it so that it's back to "perfect spacing"? Pshhh, he'll probably do another D-tilt, which would be close enough for you to shieldgrab. Note that if he's spamming D-tilt, there's actually a larger opening- 14 frames, because of the startup lag on his second D-tilt.

---------------------------------

How's that frame data usage?

Some of you might be thinking "OMG!!! 29 frames?!?! HALF A SECOND! 11 frames?!?! THAT'S less than half a second!! 6 frames?!!? IMPOSSIBLE!"

For the 6 frame anti-SHFair thing, all you have to do is buffer the jump+aerial during the clinks in the shield. Hitlag helps reaction time. For 11-frames, well, I explained the 'extended' opening that's really there if the move is used more than once.

29 frames seem like too little for you?

Get better. You need tech skill if you want to be able to get guaranteed punishments on Metaknight.

infomon · Nov 27, 2008

Hmmm, thanks for all the WoT's Napz, that actually helps I think, I'ma go experiment a bunch with MK's attacks. KID's right, spacing Ftilt is reeeally freakin' hard, especially since MK's ground running speed is so fast, even compared to Sonic it's a lot of pressure

but I'll try that out and more.

Edit: I hate to say it KID, but I told ya so...

one of the mods went on a locking spree early this morning. See my comments in the SBR.... I didn't report ur thread, I doubt anyone did actually, I suspect a mod just went through all our top threads to see what's going on lol.

I'll read Tenki's WoT in a minute lol

Tenki · Nov 27, 2008

Yeah, I cbb'd to space F-tilts against MK. I'd rather be confusing and prey on player weakness or punish him out of shield/miss.

da K.I.D. · Nov 27, 2008

i have a theory about fighting MK that i have to try out ...

da K.I.D. · Nov 27, 2008

i will ask this againt because ppl proly didnt see and i want to give you all the benefit of the doubt

da K.I.D. said:
now if you tell me now, nobody will get hurt

who reported my race thread?

infomon · Nov 27, 2008

da K.I.D. said:
i have a theory about fighting MK that i have to try out ...

^^ it works. Make sure to properly space the pointy part of your elbow right between their ribs, then input the dash > waveland > unplug their controller combo.

aeghrur · Nov 27, 2008

I did not report the race thread.
I was the one who bumped it back up, lol.
Yeah, some mod did go on a locking spree.
Not cool.

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

He how is the MK thread going?

da K.I.D. · Nov 27, 2008

i am experimenting with a funny way to punish mk

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

That's good I'am searching new links about MK aside from the 2 I put those other guides are jokes...

infomon · Nov 27, 2008

This better not involve doop walking.........

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

The second you do that doop walk MK will own you he will take any advantages...

Jim Morrison · Nov 27, 2008

SonicX580 said:
The second you do that doop walk MK will own you he will take any advantages...

No, he cannot comprehend Sonic's doop walk

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

In your dreams Gf2tw and no flame posts this is a thread for MK not SPAM if you do this again I will report you.

Jim Morrison · Nov 27, 2008

1. It's not a flame post
2. Reporting me for that would be immensely gay.
3. To keep this post on topic to not be gayported, I think MK is a though matchup for Sonic and disadvantages he has are nullified (Lightweight, doesn't matter much against Sonic).

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

Gf2tw said:
1. It's not a flame post
2. Reporting me for that would be immensely gay.
3. To keep this post on topic to not be gayported, I think MK is a though matchup for Sonic and disadvantages he has are nullified (Lightweight, doesn't matter much against Sonic).

Yes it does matter you can KO him low % you can tilt your shield with tornando and you can edgehog drill rush.

Jim Morrison · Nov 27, 2008

SonicX580 said:
Yes it does matter you can KO him low %

Low % for Sonic standard, which still is 100-120% IF not diminished KO moves. By that time MK ***** your butt.

you can tilt your shield with tornando

Anyone can

and you can edgehog drill rush.

See above + Good MK's don't use Drill Rush to recover, and it will just hit you away from the edge if you try to grab, or will hit you away if you hang on it too long. Would require perfect timing. Also, see above.

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

Gf2tw said:
Low % for Sonic standard, which still is 100-120% IF not diminished KO moves. By that time MK ***** your butt.

Anyone can

See above + Good MK's don't use Drill Rush to recover, and it will just hit you away from the edge if you try to grab, or will hit you away if you hang on it too long. Would require perfect timing. Also, see above.

No no Gf2tw that's not what I meant I mean his when his using drill rush on the stage get near the edge and then edgehog him.

Jim Morrison · Nov 27, 2008

SonicX580 said:
No no Gf2tw that's not what I meant I mean his when his using drill rush on the stage get near the edge and then edgehog him.

I know what you mean, when he's offstage and use Drill Rush for recovery. But it's kind of hard to do, you need very precise timing to not get hit. Also, you don't use Drill Rush for recovery. Instead you just use jumps or Glide... If that all fails, you still got up-B.

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

No here is what I mean you know when MK uses drill rush on the stage trick him into using drill rush near the edge then edgehog him he will fall and you will take off 1 of his stocks.

brinboy789 · Nov 27, 2008

why is there a MK disadvantage thread on the sonic boards? lol

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

Because of the undefeatble Meta Knight.

Jim Morrison · Nov 27, 2008

SonicX580 said:
No here is what I mean you know when MK uses drill rush on the stage trick him into using drill rush near the edge then edgehog him he will fall and you will take off 1 of his stocks.

I exactly just explained why it not works. Read it again and imagine why it would not work. Just imagine an MK Drill Rushing to stage, it's so ****ing ********. Some do, but just... Don't do it.

brinboy789 said:
why is there a MK disadvantage thread on the sonic boards? lol

Beats me.

infomon · Nov 27, 2008

brinboy789 said:
why is there a MK disadvantage thread on the sonic boards? lol

You know, we're about as confused as you are. :psycho:

SonicX580 · Nov 27, 2008

SonicX580 said:
Because of the undefeatble Meta Knight.

Because of this (read the top).

Lord Viper · Nov 27, 2008

Let's see:

No projectiles
Easily KO'd at 90ish from most finishing blows
All his B moves counts as a recovery, after he uses it, he's can't recover or attack until he hit's the gound.
He has little finish blows
Most of his attacks don't do too much damage

That's all I know by heart, I'm sure theres more. Oh ****, this must be already a thread, oh well.

Jim Morrison · Nov 27, 2008

Viper JLT4GOV said:
Let's see:

No projectiles
True dax
Easily KO'd at 90ish from most finishing blows
Unless you're Sonic
All his B moves counts as a recovery, after he uses it, he's can't recover or attack until he hit's the gound.
True fax
He has little finish blows
Undiminished smashes and Up-b.
Most of his attacks don't do too much damage
Yes they do, his U-throw is most damaging, D-smash is 11%, tilts are 10% or something, Tornado is up to 20%. I dunno where you get this from.

My answer.

MetaKnight's disadvantages

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