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Landing Rest Disscussion Tread

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Rest is Jigglypuff's most powerful move, but its main draw-back is the fact that it leaves you very open if you fail to land it. Counting on a move like this to connect is crucial. These are some techniques that are helpful ways to land rest. Many of them are well known, and are proven to work, but some are new ways that have been recently used:

D-Air into Rest: This one is most commonly known and the most useful way to land rest. Make shure all your hits connect before you hit the ground. Otherwise, the rest will miss due to the landing lag. Another way to use this rest combo is ledge hopped. While holding a ledge, drop, and quickly jump up and hit c-stick down to D-air. Using the c-stick will prevent fast falling which can move you closer to the ground and cancel your D-air.

Roll into Rest:
This is a strange but useful way to land rest. When an opponent falls on the ground, they can do four different things: roll to the left, roll to the right, get up, or do a ground recover attack. Getting up is usualy never used because it takes too long, and the others are better options. After your oppnent lands on the ground, stand a roll space away, and wait. If they roll the other way or do a ground attack, follow with a F-air. But if they roll toward you, use rest. they can't protect themselves from it, and it is unsuspecting. Here is ann example from
Paxz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt6Iyiy6zrQ 0:26-0:28

Sing into Rest:
Sing is a bad opinion because it lasts too long and you can't cancel it. It leaves you almost as open as rest. But once your opponent is asleep, they are easy targets for a hit. Ledge canceled sings are the safest way to do land the end of sing. When an opponent is by a ledge with you, grab it, drop down, jump up, and B-up. If your opponent is at the edge, they will fall asleep, as your sing is canceled by auto grabbing the ledge. Then just roll or jump up and use rest. You can also D-air into rest form here.

Free Fall into Rest:
Most characters like Captain Falcon, Link, and Fox have up-Bs that send them helplessly falling. If they use these attacks over ledges, which is unlikely of them to leave themselves open, you can jump at them and use rest before they hit the ground. This is good because there is nothing they can do to avoid it.

Sidestep Dodge into Rest:
If your opponent is coming at you with a dash attack, a long smash attack, or special move, simply use a side step dodge to avoid their attack, and then use rest. Make shure that your opponent ends the attack overlapping you, or else this won't work.

PowerSheild into Rest:
PowerSeild a stong attack like a smash attack. The knockback given to your oponent leaves them open for attack. Use this oppertunity to land rest. This also works with a normal sheild, however it is done best when perfect sheilded.

Rest Counters:
This is a fairly new AT that Veril has been testing. If you use a combonation of DI and a rest, you can counter most of the jab, and special move combos in the game. For example: If you DI to the top of MetaKnights tornado and mash rest, the small hitstun and the one frame of rest give you a split second to hit him. This works for many different combos from Charizard's and Bowser's fire breath, to Captain Falcon's and Fox's standard combo. for more information.....

Go to: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209708
Watch: [U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQSEhawLRuE&feature=channel_page[/U]
Special Thanks to Veril for the info and testing, and Illinialex24 for the video.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post more useful ways to land rest, and disscuss how these techs can be used properly.
 

PND

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Both, but sidestep is far more practical. Dash attack coming? Dodge rest. Aerial coming at you? Dodge rest.
 

Maniclysane

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I've noticed when I jump backwards into a rest I land it more. I don't know if this has any significance, but I think the hitbox connects quicker from the back.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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lol what if rest was strong like in melee, had a bigger hit box, and lasted for more than 1 frame? what would jigglypuff's place on the tier list be?
 

PND

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Hard to say. Better, that's for sure. Hitstun would be the biggest thing for her, though. Hitstun and her old mobility (Wario, you thieving *******! :chuckle:)

To be honest, though, current Rest accounts for so little of my kills. It's usually fair that does the job for me.
 

M-WUZ-H3R3

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Hard to say. Better, that's for sure. Hitstun would be the biggest thing for her, though. Hitstun and her old mobility (Wario, you thieving *******! :chuckle:)

To be honest, though, current Rest accounts for so little of my kills. It's usually fair that does the job for me.
F-smash, N-air, F-air, and B-air get me 80% of my kills now. Rest isnt as useful, but we cant just neglect another of his special moves. I use it about one to two times every 2 or 3 matches.
 

Glick

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I try to use it at least once a match. If I'm on my second to last stock and they are on their last as soon as they come into resting range.

If you predict a D3 is going to dash attack, side step rest it. I love the idea, I should try it sometime.
 

Ripple

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who else loves ducking under grabs and then landing rests? I sure do. approach, don't do an aerial, crouch to avoid the grab, jump rest. =awesome
 

PND

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Dodging dash attacks into Rest is the funniest thing ever. It's just. . . mindgames to the max. I love it.
 

illinialex24

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Hard to say. Better, that's for sure. Hitstun would be the biggest thing for her, though. Hitstun and her old mobility (Wario, you thieving *******! :chuckle:)

To be honest, though, current Rest accounts for so little of my kills. It's usually fair that does the job for me.
Fair is amazing. I also like dash attack sometimes or F-smash.
 

.sin

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Nair to Rest at lower percentage,
short hop fast fall and air dodge so u land right next to ur opponent after he attempts to hit u to rest
 

illinialex24

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Nair to Rest at lower percentage,
short hop fast fall and air dodge so u land right next to ur opponent after he attempts to hit u to rest
Yeah but that can be avoided in Brawl. In melee it was a true combo but now I think it can be shielded, air dodged, or DIed out of. This was a staple of the King in melee, who with Mango essentially *****.
 

Tarmogoyf

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Short hop air dodge to rest is good against bigger charecters, since they usually try to hit you away. But really, or only option outside of good prediction or our opponent drastically messing up a laggy attack or Dair, there isn't much use for it. I have mostly stopped using it, just because every whiffed rest is death.
 

Glick

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Jigglypuff is pure garbage. I'd completely drop jiggz in a second if I wasn't so good with her.


Sorry. This thread just reminded me of that.
 

Maniclysane

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Wow. You are becoming exactly like Tyser. Quit Brawl and become a wanna-be Bowyer. Original.
Because Jigglypuff is terrible. Her aerials are her only good moves. Metaknight has better aerials game. So does Wario. There are plenty of characters that are better than Jiggz in all ways. The only thing that made Jiggz good in melee was hit stun, so she could combo. She can't combo in Brawl. She can't do much. Killing people at like, 50% was what made her good.

Jiggz is terrible in Brawl. Tyser quit because her metagame is hopeless, and Bowyer quit because Jiggz is just bad. Half the Jiggz users have already quit. Jigglymaster quit to play Diddy, TLink King quit to play Snake or someone, I've already switched to Olimar. I still think that she has potential, but the reason people are quitting Jiggz are good reasons.
 

Glick

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Wow. You are becoming exactly like Tyser. Quit Brawl and become a wanna-be Bowyer. Original.
Thats ****ed up. I am not being like Tyser. What I say is true. She really seems like a joke character to me. I'm not quiting brawl and I never said I would. Also, everything Mani said.
 

illinialex24

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Because Jigglypuff is terrible. Her aerials are her only good moves. Metaknight has better aerials game. So does Wario. There are plenty of characters that are better than Jiggz in all ways. The only thing that made Jiggz good in melee was hit stun, so she could combo. She can't combo in Brawl. She can't do much. Killing people at like, 50% was what made her good.

Jiggz is terrible in Brawl. Tyser quit because her metagame is hopeless, and Bowyer quit because Jiggz is just bad. Half the Jiggz users have already quit. Jigglymaster quit to play Diddy, TLink King quit to play Snake or someone, I've already switched to Olimar. I still think that she has potential, but the reason people are quitting Jiggz are good reasons.
Thats ****ed up. I am not being like Tyser. What I say is true. She really seems like a joke character to me. I'm not quiting brawl and I never said I would. Also, everything Mani said.
Just get out.
 

Glick

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Can you honestly say she's a good, tourney viable character? Honestly? She certainly isn't in my area. And not because nobody uses her but because the competition is so hard in NYC that you almost never see anything below high tier ever winning tournys.
 

illinialex24

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Can you honestly say she's a good, tourney viable character? Honestly? She certainly isn't in my area. And not because nobody uses her but because the competition is so hard in NYC that you almost never see anything below high tier ever winning tournys.
Take a look at Thinkaman. He made her into tourney viable at least for him.
 

Veril

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I'm gonna ignore all the... Jiggs rage above.

So I just saw this thread after posting a big thing on rest in Illinialex's guide.

BAH!

Anyway, the "surprise rest" is amazing. AMAZING. I made someone cry. not really but they were incredibly POed that they killed themselves by forward smashing into a Jigglypuff.
 

illinialex24

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I'm gonna ignore all the... Jiggs rage above.

So I just saw this thread after posting a big thing on rest in Illinialex's guide.

BAH!

Anyway, the "surprise rest" is amazing. AMAZING. I made someone cry. not really but they were incredibly POed that they killed themselves by forward smashing into a Jigglypuff.
Nice I saw it great find. I'm testing this out now.
 

PND

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Jiggs board got beef.

Chill, both of you. Both of you are right.

Jiggs is a bad character. Let's face it, she's mostly terrible. Glick is right, and she has some nigh unwinnable matches. She has many shortcomings.

But she's not hopeless. Thinkaman's scraped together results for her. I've scraped together results for her. Jiggernaut has scraped together results for her. Jigglesthepuff certainly has scraped together results for her.

And it's not because our scenes are easy. I've played some of the top Canadian players there are, and Canada is no slouch. Look how well we repped CH3/4/5 whatever it was when we went down. Canadians ( a few I have played) were above Ninjalink. Above Inui. Above Atomsk. Jiggernaut and I come from the same scene, and Jigglesthepuff is from the same province. If we can do it, so can anyone.

Jigglesthepuff beat Ambrose at GOML. Ambrose beat Lain, and I think NoJ? Not so sure on that one. Regardless, Ambrose is a **** good player. Jiggles went Jiggs. Ambrose went G&W. At top level play, Jiggles beat out Ambrose and took 3rd at a major tournament. It can be done. At that tourney with Ambrose, Lain and NoJ, Jiggles came 9th. That's pretty ****ing good for a Jiggs exclusive player.

I went through a similar phase. I was losing, and I blamed Jiggs. Guess what? I made her lose. I was holding her back. Abandon that mindset, and look at those accomplishments. If Jiggles did it, why can't I? If Thinkaman did it, why can't I? Well, now I'm getting there too.

She can be tourney viable, you just have to be good and really dedicated. It's not easy, and the effort required to be that good could be better spent on better characters, but blaming her for losing is the scrubs' way out. You lost. She didn't.

I'm done.
 

lain

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Ambrose beat me because I went to him mid-pools and we both agreed that IC dittos were stupid and played secondaries only. I played DDD and he played MK and tornado spammed me the entire time. Cred to him though, that's how you should play that matchup. Plus, Ambrose had quite possibly the easiest bracket ever. On my side, was Ally, HolyNightmare, NOJ, and I. Ambrose did not beat NOJ, I did. Ambrose lost to NOJ in pools.

:colorful:
 

PND

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I didn't mean any disrespect to you. But in your opinion, is he a good player? That's mostly what I'm getting at.

Plus once I move to Niagara I'll see if I can drag some GTA&Ners to Ann Arbor or vice versa.
 

Glick

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I played ambrose on wifi. But there was literally no lag at all. In a bunch of friendlies though. His ice climbers beat me more often then I beat them (This was a while ago and I think I have more ice climbers experience now), but I beat more often or we went even with every other character he played (Wario, DDD, MK, Snake too I think), unless I was being silly. I have a clip of me resting his warios dacus in my replays. I did that on wifi, so you know that we didn't lag. lmao. Thats going into my combo/complication video.


Anyway ambrose is very skilled. I wouldn't put him on the level of lets say ninjalink or bum though.
 

Tarmogoyf

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*Sigh* You have to work harder with low teir characters to see their potential. It'as not that she is bad, it's that she requires more work to get good with. Don't give up because it's harder, be more dedicated. It's the fate of low teir mains. Minor subparity (is that a word?) Makes people people give up. If Sonic/Bowser can do it, we can too!
 

Maniclysane

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*Sigh* You have to work harder with low teir characters to see their potential. It'as not that she is bad, it's that she requires more work to get good with. Don't give up because it's harder, be more dedicated. It's the fate of low teir mains. Minor subparity (is that a word?) Makes people people give up. If Sonic/Bowser can do it, we can too!
Sonic isn't going to end up going anywhere. They're mostly delusional. He has terrible priority, two killing moves, two of his moves are the same, weak smashes, and his dair is terrible. Bowser has some crazy grab things, and is heavy. Jiggz, Ganon, and Captain Falcon are always going to stay at the bottom. Jiggz lacks what made her good.
 

Tarmogoyf

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Sonic isn't going to end up going anywhere. They're mostly delusional. He has terrible priority, two killing moves, two of his moves are the same, weak smashes, and his dair is terrible. Bowser has some crazy grab things, and is heavy. Jiggz, Ganon, and Captain Falcon are always going to stay at the bottom. Jiggz lacks what made her good.
I wasn't arguing for Jigglypuff to be top teir. But she can Break out of the "Completley nonviable" mold that grips bottom tier chars. She, along with the characters that you mentioned, are mostly screwed because people write them off as useless. A character can't develop without use. Overused chars will become better and better because people will discover more and more about them, advancing them even further. Meanwhile, no one will play bottom tier, and they will remain stagnant. IN ORDER FOR ANY CHARACTER TO BE GOOD, THEY HAVE TO BE PLAYED.
 

Ambrose

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Ambrose beat me because I went to him mid-pools and we both agreed that IC dittos were stupid and played secondaries only. I played DDD and he played MK and tornado spammed me the entire time. Cred to him though, that's how you should play that matchup. Plus, Ambrose had quite possibly the easiest bracket ever. On my side, was Ally, HolyNightmare, NOJ, and I. Ambrose did not beat NOJ, I did. Ambrose lost to NOJ in pools.

:colorful:
Just to make things clear...

You went G&W first, and i used MK. You lost. But you still chose DDD second match knowing I was using MK. That was a pretty bad counter-pick, imo. But you still chose to do it, so tornado spam is a given. Also, I beat you not BECAUSE we both agreed that we werent going to use ICs. Thats like saying you can beat me in an ICs ditto for sure, when you have never played my ICs before. Don't forget that I main ICs also, so we both had to equally step down from using our mains.
 

lain

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Did I really go G&W? **** I didn't remember lol

But yeah man I had to go DDD cause he was my only other secondary lol. I knew the nado spam was coming cause KingAce did it, which was smart because that's how you have to play that matchup. :] ply2win lol. I hope you don't think I'm **** talking you or anything, just explaining the situation.

You're definitely a good player, I could see that when you played NOJ in pools, and when I played you. You are truly one of the few players I considered good in Canada lol. There was only like 4 or 5 people around my skill, so yeah you're ****ing awesome.
 

illinialex24

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Sonic isn't going to end up going anywhere. They're mostly delusional. He has terrible priority, two killing moves, two of his moves are the same, weak smashes, and his dair is terrible. Bowser has some crazy grab things, and is heavy. Jiggz, Ganon, and Captain Falcon are always going to stay at the bottom. Jiggz lacks what made her good.
No. She's strongly debated to be higher, and she should end up high low or low mid. She's got insane more potential than Falcon, Gdorf, or Link.
 
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