Stages to Ban

Deoxys · Dec 7, 2008

In general, what are the best stages for MK to ban? Obviously, your opponent's main and your secondary (if you have any), factor in heavily, but what are the worst stages for MK in general?

I already think that Green Greens is bad for MK against certain characters, as well as Corneria (although it is debated) and Yoshi's Island (Melee), largely due to their low ceilings. Most tournaments ban GG and Corneria, and many ban Yoshi's as well. What are we left with? Of the remaining stages, Final Destination, Halberd, Pirate Ship, and Brinstar come to mind. What do you guys think? Am I the only one who does't like Pirate Ship for MK?

magikguy · Dec 7, 2008

yeah pirate ship doesn't do any good for metaknight that will give an advatage , also the stage hazards are lame , the sea doesn't help either .

Sushi-Man · Dec 7, 2008

Yoshi's Island (melee), Green Greens, and Corneria are probably the worst stages. FD can also be pretty bad.

Affinity · Dec 7, 2008

Sushi-Man said:
Yoshi's Island (melee), Green Greens, and Corneria are probably the worst stages. FD can also be pretty bad.

Corneria is actually a great stage for MK if the MK knows how to fight on it.

Banning stages is mostly just dependent on the match-up you're facing:

Diddy: FD
Falco: Jungle Japes
DK: Brinstar
Ike: Pirate Ship

etc.

Deoxys · Dec 7, 2008

-Affinity- said:
Corneria is actually a great stage for MK if the MK knows how to fight on it.

Banning stages is mostly just dependent on the match-up you're facing:

Diddy: FD
Falco: Jungle Japes
DK: Brinstar
Ike: Pirate Ship

etc.

I get that (in fact I said it in the OP), but I want to know which stages are the worst for MK in general. And not just the three worst.

I still say Corneria is bad against Snake and Pikachu.

Staco · Dec 7, 2008

Brinstar is very good for the tornado.
DK will have problems with it.
And the yellow thing can save you, if he spikes you.

brinboy789 · Dec 7, 2008

Deoxys said:
I still say Corneria is bad against Snake and Pikachu.

IMO corneria isnt bad because dsmash kills at ridiculous percents near the edge (close blast zones), shuttle loop to wing is too good, and dtilt lock is broken. the only downside is a low cieling, and is bad against chars with good vertical KO power (snake)

K 2 · Dec 7, 2008

um...How is pikachu good on corneria?

I would ban Corneria or Green Greens against G&W, as they are two of G&W's best stages.

Sushi-Man · Dec 7, 2008

What stage would you guys ban against snake?

Skyflyer · Dec 7, 2008

japes japes japes japes japes jaaaaaaaaaaaaapes

Skyflyer · Dec 7, 2008

Sushi-Man said:
What stage would you guys ban against snake?

Effing smashville

Sushi-Man · Dec 7, 2008

Skyflyer said:
Effing smashville

Thats what most people say but I always found the moving platform very useful to shutte-loop snakes out of their cypher when they up-b very high.

Infinitysmash · Dec 7, 2008

Why would you ban Smashville against Snake? That doesn't make any sense to me, lol.

magikguy · Dec 7, 2008

I_Am_Infinity said:
Why would you ban Smashville against Snake? That doesn't make any sense to me, lol.

dunno , my guess is low ceiling so that up tilt will kill at low % or his mine blends in with the stage :O?

Skyflyer · Dec 7, 2008

I_Am_Infinity said:
Why would you ban Smashville against Snake? That doesn't make any sense to me, lol.

It's his best stage.

magikguy · Dec 7, 2008

why is it his best stage though?

Skyflyer · Dec 7, 2008

Well, smashville is smaller than fd. He can pretty much cover the whole stage with mortar slide. Its nice and flat like fd, plus he has a platform, which he can plant c4's on and camp. I got camped with grenades when he was on top of the platform once. Not fun. At ALL.

Affinity · Dec 7, 2008

magikguy said:
why is it his best stage though?

I'm not exactly sure if Smashville is his best stage, but its definitely one of them:

1) A C4 on the moving platform will hit anyone above, under, or around the platform.

2) Snake can U-tilt through the platform.

3) Many more reasons.

The Snake boards are currently discussing Smashville in their stage discussion:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5971139#post5971139

Crizthakidd · Dec 7, 2008

halberd is madd ghey and mk gets owned on it lol

at least mines does

brinboy789 · Dec 7, 2008

I_Am_Infinity said:
Why would you ban Smashville against Snake? That doesn't make any sense to me, lol.

moving platform + C4 = WTFBQQSAUCEBROKEN

Infinitysmash · Dec 7, 2008

Crizthakidd said:
halberd is madd ghey and mk gets owned on it lol

at least mines does

Halberd is my second counterpick stage :D

Honestly, I usually just arbitrarily ban Final Destination unless I know my opponent likes a particular stage.

Edit - @ Brinboy: uhhhh, not really.

brinboy789 · Dec 7, 2008

I_Am_Infinity said:
Edit - @ Brinboy: uhhhh, not really.

yaaaa, snake C4 kills MK at ridiculously low %'s, and since the C4 has a wide radius of attack, so big that it can hit things UNDER the platform, MK has to be cautious at all times. the moving platform can sometime save snakes *** too

Deoxys · Dec 8, 2008

I_Am_Infinity said:
Halberd is my second counterpick stage :D

After Rainbow Cruise? I don't see what it has on Delfino, let alone Luigi's Mansion or Skyworld.

brinboy789 said:
the moving platform can sometime save snakes *** too

How? I'm not seeing it....

I_Am_Infinity said:
Honestly, I usually just arbitrarily ban Final Destination unless I know my opponent likes a particular stage.

Infinity, is that when Yoshi's Island (Melee) is banned, or do you hate FD more than YI(M)? Also, do you have a secondary? It is key to know for me to evaluate your advice.

How do other people feel about the post quoted here? Personally, I'd rather ban Pirate Ship or YI(M), assuming I plan to stick with MK no matter what. Since my Ike isn't bad, I might just ban FD and fallback on Ike for those courses.

Infinitysmash · Dec 8, 2008

Deoxys said:
After Rainbow Cruise? I don't see what it has on Delfino, let alone Luigi's Mansion or Skyworld.

1 - Delfino
2 - Norfair or Halberd (it depends on my mood, I'll pick either one based on how I feel)
3 - Halberd or Norfair (see above)

^ Those are my primary counterpicks in order. I change them up a lot from time to time to keep myself on my feet though. I used to counterpick Brinstar, Distant Planet and Luigi's Mansion, but I got bored with those stages and I only use them when I know there's some kind of a huge advantage on them (i.e Luigi's Mansion vs Wario). I'm not sure why, I've just never been a big fan of Skyworld or Rainbow Cruise though I do perfectly fine on both.

Please don't ask why though. I pick stages because I think they're fun, not for any logical reason

I <3 staircasing on Norfair :chuckle:

Deoxys said:
Infinity, is that when Yoshi's Island (Melee) is banned, or do you hate FD more than YI(M)? Also, do you have a secondary? It is key to know for me to evaluate your advice..

I don't mind Yoshi's Island. I'm actually very good at being a complete jerk with Shuttle Loop on that stage and there are a million things to tech on there so dying isn't really a problem. I'm not actively worried about being chain grabbed off the side of the stage, so I'm pretty indifferent to Yoshi's.

I typically ban FD because there's nothing to play around with there. It makes positioning a ton harder, plus my personal best game is when someone is on a platform above me which can't happen on FD. It's also very, very easy to predict where and how Metaknight will move on that stage so I prefer to just get rid of it unless I know someone likes a different stage.

Dojo · Dec 8, 2008

brinboy789 said:
yaaaa, snake C4 kills MK at ridiculously low %'s

t's not at ridiculously low %'s. Learn to DI silly. XD

On topic, you typically want to ban stages your opponent's main does well on. Or, if you know your opponent's personal preference, (like I know Infi loves playing on delphino) I'd ban that against him.

Your choice can also be determined by stages that you, as a player just don't personally like. For instance, I used to despise Yoshi's Island, so I'd always strike and ban that on the spot. I've overcome this hatred for this stage though. It's actually not that bad now.

MK really has no "bad stages." He does well with all of them. It's based alot of on what stages your opponent's characters do good on.

Some stages I usually ban against chars that I play frequently in tourney:

MK - Rainbow Cruise (I just don't practice enough with that stage)
Snake - Lylat
Diddy, IC's, Falco, G&W - FD

I tend to ban FD on alot of characters. I feel MK always has the advantage offstage. And with a longer stage it's harder to get a smart player off that stage for the early kills.

Mew2King · Dec 8, 2008

Dojo that stuff kills at like 80 or 90 I think, that is pretty low. It might be even stronger than that, especially if you sticky them or do gay set ups esp. in teams

Deoxys · Dec 8, 2008

Mew2King said:
Dojo that stuff kills at like 80 or 90 I think, that is pretty low. It might be even stronger than that, especially if you sticky them or do gay set ups esp. in teams

QFT

Dojo. said:
t's not at ridiculously low %'s. Learn to DI silly. XD

On topic, you typically want to ban stages your opponent's main does well on. Or, if you know your opponent's personal preference, (like I know Infi loves playing on delphino) I'd ban that against him.

Your choice can also be determined by stages that you, as a player just don't personally like. For instance, I used to despise Yoshi's Island, so I'd always strike and ban that on the spot. I've overcome this hatred for this stage though. It's actually not that bad now.

MK really has no "bad stages." He does well with all of them. It's based alot of on what stages your opponent's characters do good on.

Some stages I usually ban against chars that I play frequently in tourney:

MK - Rainbow Cruise (I just don't practice enough with that stage)
Snake - Lylat
Diddy, IC's, Falco, G&W - FD

I tend to ban FD on alot of characters. I feel MK always has the advantage offstage. And with a longer stage it's harder to get a smart player off that stage for the early kills.

Why Lylat against Snake?

I_Am_Infinity said:
I don't mind Yoshi's Island. I'm actually very good at being a complete jerk with Shuttle Loop on that stage and there are a million things to tech on there so dying isn't really a problem. I'm not actively worried about being chain grabbed off the side of the stage, so I'm pretty indifferent to Yoshi's.

Who can CG MK off the side of Yoshi's? I haven't been CG'd on the slope before. Also, what do you use to kill there?

Dojo · Dec 8, 2008

Deoxys said:
Why Lylat against Snake?

Platform setups work really well on this stage for him. High ceiling make it harder to kill him and still not so hard to kill you. It's actually rather hard to keep track of all his explosives.

Who can CG MK off the side of Yoshi's? I haven't been CG'd on the slope before. Also, what do you use to kill there?

Falco can take you and dair you offstage.

Answers in bold.

Affinity · Dec 8, 2008

Karmacide always picks Lylat against me.

Ulevo · Dec 8, 2008

Dojo. said:
Answers in bold.

Dojo, do you know if Falco can kill Meta Knight with a Spike on Yoshis Island indefinitely? I know if Falco attempts it on Final Destination, Meta Knight can still live regardless of how much percent is given to him from the grab, but I think the bottom blast zone is higher on Final Destination by a considerable amount from the stage than on Yoshis Island.

Deoxys · Dec 9, 2008

-Affinity- said:
Karmacide always picks Lylat against me.

What do you ban?

nuro · Dec 11, 2008

Mew2King said:
Dojo that stuff kills at like 80 or 90 I think, that is pretty low. It might be even stronger than that, especially if you sticky them or do gay set ups esp. in teams

Is it me or do you always go in favor of MK being worse than he actually is?

brinboy789 · Dec 11, 2008

nuro said:
Is it me?

yes

10char

Deoxys · Dec 12, 2008

nuro said:
Is it me or do you always go in favor of MK being worse than he actually is?

What M2K is saying is correct...

Ulevo said:
Dojo, do you know if Falco can kill Meta Knight with a Spike on Yoshis Island indefinitely? I know if Falco attempts it on Final Destination, Meta Knight can still live regardless of how much percent is given to him from the grab, but I think the bottom blast zone is lower on Final Destination by a considerable amount from the stage than on Yoshis Island.

Fix'd, right?

DMG · Dec 12, 2008

Keep Pirate Ship, Brinstar, and Halberd. Just ban FD if that looks like the only bad stage available.

Pirate Ship is fine for MK, if your opponent gets caught in the water, you can Dair them and it will basically put them back into the water but further away. You can also spike people with Dair into the ship while it is moving, and on the other parts MK does fine.

Halberd lets you poke from beneath pretty easily for a good portion of the match, and the walls on the sides are great for getting Dair gimps/stage spikes.

Brinstar is good for him as well, close sides and you can move through the bottom of the stage as well. When you are forced to the top platform, MK just rules in close spaces like that. Plus, it can mess up a lot of CG's characters have on MK.

If you have Green Greens on the map, I would prolly ban that vs G&W, maybe also ban it vs Snake but not too sure on that. For Corneria, I would only ban that against G&W probably, otherwise MK is just too good on that stage. For Pipes, I dunno who you would wanna ban that against, maybe TL or someone kinda "gimmicky" on that stage. I could see Snake being not too bad on this stage, as long as he can stay on the ground and tech like crazy near that hill.

_umbra_ · Dec 12, 2008

wow infinity way to have the same counterpicks as me

except for norfair that **** is banned at like every tournament I go to rofl

Since all the bs stages get banned around here, I usually like to ban yoshi's island/story/whatever the brawl one is called, unless my opponent's character calls for one of the obvious other bans.

Flamingo · Dec 12, 2008

_umbra_ said:
wow infinity way to have the same counterpicks as me

except for norfair that **** is banned at like every tournament I go to rofl

Since all the bs stages get banned around here, I usually like to ban yoshi's island/story/whatever the brawl one is called, unless my opponent's character calls for one of the obvious other bans.

I dont like norfair... it really is NO FAIR

Master Raven · Dec 12, 2008

I actually like to fight MK on Halberd. While MK may not have any "bad" stages per se, I actually find Halberd to be a really good place to fight MK on mostly because the low ceiling makes it easier for me to kill him with the characters I usually use against MK (Snake and DK). Hazards on the stage can potentially **** either of you over too, but better if the MK gets hit by one.

Staco · Dec 12, 2008

Cant mk go under the stage?
Just edge hanging + under stage uairs all the time until the stage lands.

Master Raven · Dec 12, 2008

If I'm Snake I can just drop grenades and C4 so I can make sure MK isn't spamming Uairs from below.

Well, I actually haven't tried that yet, but I will the next time I fight an MK there.

Stages to Ban

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

King of the Mews

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Master

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