Browny
Smash Hater
Will update thread title accordingly...
Just so i can keep a compilation of the stuff im working on, and it needed its own thread anyway. im sure the regulars here know whats going on, but for those who dont heres where i started this
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6101142#post6101142
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6145112#post6145112
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6147055#post6147055
You want details?
NOTES ON HITBOX SHAPES
With absolutely no way of determining whether hitboxes in brawl are indeed ellipses, I am simply working on the assumption that all attack hitboxes are ellipses since they were in Melee. Because of this, the minor axis diameter on any given attack is so difficult to determine unless i measure at least 8 reference points per attack, I have taken the best estimate I can of the attacks hitbox shape.
MOST IMPORTANT. THE VERTICAL HEIGHT ON GROUND ATTACKS ARE TOO DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE, I KNOW THEY ARE PROBABLY WRONG. This applies to Jab, d/fsmash, f/dtilt
NOTES ON DISJOINTS
This guide does NOT show the extent of disjoints of an attack. Just because you can see a body part extended does not mean you can hit it (Uair second hit, Kirby bair) I have no idea how to go about determining that. It appears that just about every attack in the game is disjointed to some extent so yeah...
JAB
First hit of jab can hit people slighly behind Sonic's centre-line and since the first hit moves him forwards and at the same time he lunges forwards, the hitbox appears to have moved behind him.
FTILT
Although this attack doesnt move Sonic forward, it actually has some sort of measureable range behind his centre line. The reason the hitbox looks so displaced is because Sonic lunges forwards so far.
DTILT
Hardly any reverse range, although it does move him forwards so once again, the hitbox appears behind. The very tip of the shoe has large horizontal knockback while everywhere else of the attack (including the majority of the shoe) sends the enemy slightly upwards. Attacks that coincide with Sonics head and body in the picture shown will send the enemy slighly behind Sonic.
UTILT
What a nightmare to map this attack... Almost no reverse range whatsoever, however since Sonic lunges forward once again, the hitbox appears to be behind him. IT'S NOT, not even close. The first 2 kicks have poor horizontal range at Sonic's head level however the range is much better surrounding the 3rd kick. It seems very disjointed in front, but thats only because that is where he can hit enemies during the first and second kick, this pic shows the 3rd kick. The attack has a very noticeable disjoint in front, above and most interestingly, behind sonic. The 3rd kick can actually hit people on a platform, slightly behind Sonic's centre line.
FSMASH
Massive case of lunging forward here making the hitbox look very odd indeed. Refer to the end of this post as to why the fsmash appears to have such little range. Anyway this attack is very disjointed and will amaze you at some of the attacks it can clash with (Zelda fsmash anyone?). Determining the extent of this disjoint is another problem altogether and I cant do it at the moment. Angling the fsmash up and down decreases the range noticebly, from the picture above, the range is on the vertical line where the glove tip ends. It does alter the direction of the hitbox, slighly up and down respectively.
DSMASH
While this move seems to have more range in the front, thats only because you are facing that way. If you measure the range from Sonic's centre line it is within pixels each way. In fact the reverse hit is on the upper edge of this difference. Almost no disjoint whatsoever, as im sure many of you will already know lol.
USMASH
LOL hitbox. Getting Snake to crawl under the Usmash while Sonic is spinning shows the horizontal range is at a minimum at ground level. This attack also apparently decreases Sonics hurtbox. But more than that, since it appears hitboxes are elliptical in nature, most ground attacks have a the largest range at low or ground level. Attacks like ike, Marth fsmash have the longest range at the ground when they hit, and Snakes uptilt has the longest range at about his knee level. Because of this, when Sonic spins in the upsmash, he can stay above an enemies hitbox and avoid long range attacks.
But it doesnt end there, the majority of characters forward ground attacks lunge them forwards too, bringing their hurtbox closer to Sonic. This crazy combination of attributes to Sonics upsmash allow it to Either clank, hover above or beat every single ground attack in the game except DDD fsmash and things like vine whip. No joke, when he is spinning, properly spaced Sonic can avoid an Ike fsmash or snake utilt, and while the Usmash hitbox stays out, the enemy will be dragged into it unless they clanked with the very first hit. Usmash is lol.
FAIR
Its not really that disjointed... It just looks that way because Sonic spins around. However the final hit of fair with killer knockback is what appears so disjointed in front of Sonics head. It only exists for the very last part of the attack though.
BAIR
Pretty basic stuff here. Reverse range is amazing and it is very easy to deliberately hit the enemy backwards by hitting them anywhere behind the front of Sonic's face.
NAIR
It is not that disjointed at all lol. Its just because Sonic doesnt spin on a stationary axis, the axis rotates the same way hes spinning. Imagine a CD rotating about a tiny point located inside the inner circle. The range you can see here only exists in 1 direction at any given point of the attacks while the remainder of the hitbox is more or less directly attached to Sonic's body. He spins about this smaller axis about 2 times in a single nair.
DAIR (SWEETSPOT)
Slightly larger range behind than the remainder of the attack, although still pretty low overall.
DAIR
The larger hitbox behind Sonic allows you do deliberatly do thngs like stage-spike tether recoveries such as in my sig
UAIR (1ST HIT)
I love this attack forever. Since Sonic flips while in mid-air, he gets a small boost in apparent vertical range. Just imagine Sonics head as a bit lower than you see here before the uair was initiated.
UAIR (2ND HIT)
Pretty much proving my point about hurtboxes not being attached to a visible body. Vertical hit can beat almost every dair in the game if spaced perfectly.
GRAB RANGE
Meh, its alright. Its on the lower end when compared to the rest of the cast but its not abysmal like some people believe >_>
Now some explaining... youll notice how on the pics of ftilt, fsmash etc The range on the attack seems quite low. this is because sonics has projected himself forward. The picture below shows the range of fsmash when sonic is standing still. Its a lot more impressive
Since Sonic lunges forward in his attacks, this allows them to hit behind him during the animation, which many of his attacks actually do. Im sure plenty of times we have seen the jab and fsmash hit people behind sonic. This isnt an unusual trait though, pretty much all characters can hit someone if the enemy runs into their back while the hitbox is out.
determining the height of attacks such as dtilt is difficult, but I gotta make an estimate of some sort
THINGS TO DO
ledge attacks
get-up attacks
2nd/3rd hit of jab.
Dash attack
B specials
Spring (lolwut)
Properly measure reverse range on f/dtilt and jab (the max range is correct)
Just so i can keep a compilation of the stuff im working on, and it needed its own thread anyway. im sure the regulars here know whats going on, but for those who dont heres where i started this
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6101142#post6101142
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6145112#post6145112
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6147055#post6147055
You want details?
It was made by using 4 pictures of all attacks (more for multi-hit attacks, uair had 8) showing the exact frame the attack hitbox came out, and the spark that resulted. For example, bair
That spark represents the maximum range I was able to get the bair to hit from, from behind. I then did that to all 4 directions for each attack, trying to take each screenshot at the exact same frame (extremely difficult, I couldnt manage it often). Then with each pit, I took a reference value of the range relative to sonics body. In the above example, lets say the range from the spark to Sonics glove was 10 pixels. I then measured the length of a reference item, using the platforms of battlefield. they were around 550 pixels.
Then in the picture I used in this thread, I measured the size of the platform (about 600 pixels) and applied a correction factor of (10/550) to find the relative range of the attack. This removed most of the errors involved in using different screenshots to measure the same attack, since its hard to keep all images at the exact same zoom level and orientation.
With that done to each direction of the attack, I drew an ellipse with the major and minor diameters equal to the calculated range of the attack and located it with each edge on the pixel I drew as the max range of the attack in any direction.
All these methods cause a build up in errors, I could expect each step to go maybe 2-3 pixels each way so it could get as bad as around 6-9 pixels each way, but its the best I can do by only using screenshots
NOTES ON HITBOX SHAPES
With absolutely no way of determining whether hitboxes in brawl are indeed ellipses, I am simply working on the assumption that all attack hitboxes are ellipses since they were in Melee. Because of this, the minor axis diameter on any given attack is so difficult to determine unless i measure at least 8 reference points per attack, I have taken the best estimate I can of the attacks hitbox shape.
MOST IMPORTANT. THE VERTICAL HEIGHT ON GROUND ATTACKS ARE TOO DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE, I KNOW THEY ARE PROBABLY WRONG. This applies to Jab, d/fsmash, f/dtilt
NOTES ON DISJOINTS
This guide does NOT show the extent of disjoints of an attack. Just because you can see a body part extended does not mean you can hit it (Uair second hit, Kirby bair) I have no idea how to go about determining that. It appears that just about every attack in the game is disjointed to some extent so yeah...
JAB
First hit of jab can hit people slighly behind Sonic's centre-line and since the first hit moves him forwards and at the same time he lunges forwards, the hitbox appears to have moved behind him.
FTILT
Although this attack doesnt move Sonic forward, it actually has some sort of measureable range behind his centre line. The reason the hitbox looks so displaced is because Sonic lunges forwards so far.
DTILT
Hardly any reverse range, although it does move him forwards so once again, the hitbox appears behind. The very tip of the shoe has large horizontal knockback while everywhere else of the attack (including the majority of the shoe) sends the enemy slightly upwards. Attacks that coincide with Sonics head and body in the picture shown will send the enemy slighly behind Sonic.
UTILT
What a nightmare to map this attack... Almost no reverse range whatsoever, however since Sonic lunges forward once again, the hitbox appears to be behind him. IT'S NOT, not even close. The first 2 kicks have poor horizontal range at Sonic's head level however the range is much better surrounding the 3rd kick. It seems very disjointed in front, but thats only because that is where he can hit enemies during the first and second kick, this pic shows the 3rd kick. The attack has a very noticeable disjoint in front, above and most interestingly, behind sonic. The 3rd kick can actually hit people on a platform, slightly behind Sonic's centre line.
FSMASH
Massive case of lunging forward here making the hitbox look very odd indeed. Refer to the end of this post as to why the fsmash appears to have such little range. Anyway this attack is very disjointed and will amaze you at some of the attacks it can clash with (Zelda fsmash anyone?). Determining the extent of this disjoint is another problem altogether and I cant do it at the moment. Angling the fsmash up and down decreases the range noticebly, from the picture above, the range is on the vertical line where the glove tip ends. It does alter the direction of the hitbox, slighly up and down respectively.
DSMASH
While this move seems to have more range in the front, thats only because you are facing that way. If you measure the range from Sonic's centre line it is within pixels each way. In fact the reverse hit is on the upper edge of this difference. Almost no disjoint whatsoever, as im sure many of you will already know lol.
USMASH
LOL hitbox. Getting Snake to crawl under the Usmash while Sonic is spinning shows the horizontal range is at a minimum at ground level. This attack also apparently decreases Sonics hurtbox. But more than that, since it appears hitboxes are elliptical in nature, most ground attacks have a the largest range at low or ground level. Attacks like ike, Marth fsmash have the longest range at the ground when they hit, and Snakes uptilt has the longest range at about his knee level. Because of this, when Sonic spins in the upsmash, he can stay above an enemies hitbox and avoid long range attacks.
But it doesnt end there, the majority of characters forward ground attacks lunge them forwards too, bringing their hurtbox closer to Sonic. This crazy combination of attributes to Sonics upsmash allow it to Either clank, hover above or beat every single ground attack in the game except DDD fsmash and things like vine whip. No joke, when he is spinning, properly spaced Sonic can avoid an Ike fsmash or snake utilt, and while the Usmash hitbox stays out, the enemy will be dragged into it unless they clanked with the very first hit. Usmash is lol.
FAIR
Its not really that disjointed... It just looks that way because Sonic spins around. However the final hit of fair with killer knockback is what appears so disjointed in front of Sonics head. It only exists for the very last part of the attack though.
BAIR
Pretty basic stuff here. Reverse range is amazing and it is very easy to deliberately hit the enemy backwards by hitting them anywhere behind the front of Sonic's face.
NAIR
It is not that disjointed at all lol. Its just because Sonic doesnt spin on a stationary axis, the axis rotates the same way hes spinning. Imagine a CD rotating about a tiny point located inside the inner circle. The range you can see here only exists in 1 direction at any given point of the attacks while the remainder of the hitbox is more or less directly attached to Sonic's body. He spins about this smaller axis about 2 times in a single nair.
DAIR (SWEETSPOT)
Slightly larger range behind than the remainder of the attack, although still pretty low overall.
DAIR
The larger hitbox behind Sonic allows you do deliberatly do thngs like stage-spike tether recoveries such as in my sig
UAIR (1ST HIT)
I love this attack forever. Since Sonic flips while in mid-air, he gets a small boost in apparent vertical range. Just imagine Sonics head as a bit lower than you see here before the uair was initiated.
UAIR (2ND HIT)
Pretty much proving my point about hurtboxes not being attached to a visible body. Vertical hit can beat almost every dair in the game if spaced perfectly.
GRAB RANGE
Meh, its alright. Its on the lower end when compared to the rest of the cast but its not abysmal like some people believe >_>
Now some explaining... youll notice how on the pics of ftilt, fsmash etc The range on the attack seems quite low. this is because sonics has projected himself forward. The picture below shows the range of fsmash when sonic is standing still. Its a lot more impressive
Since Sonic lunges forward in his attacks, this allows them to hit behind him during the animation, which many of his attacks actually do. Im sure plenty of times we have seen the jab and fsmash hit people behind sonic. This isnt an unusual trait though, pretty much all characters can hit someone if the enemy runs into their back while the hitbox is out.
determining the height of attacks such as dtilt is difficult, but I gotta make an estimate of some sort
THINGS TO DO
ledge attacks
get-up attacks
2nd/3rd hit of jab.
Dash attack
B specials
Spring (lolwut)
Properly measure reverse range on f/dtilt and jab (the max range is correct)
