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Marth's Grab Game is Amazing

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
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Mar 30, 2008
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Yes, it is true. His 4-5% throws make Marth deadly even when he's not using his sword. There are far too many Marth's who don't use his grab game to its full potential. It's probably one of the best in the cast because they put your opponent in a disadvantageous position where you are able to easily follow it up in a multitude of ways. His grab range is also still pretty decent, especially pivot grabs.

A lot of Marth's tend to shy away from Marth's grabs because it requires you to go inside his sword range. I urge you to understand that this is not as bad as it sounds. Getting the grab can be as simple as dashing into a shield grab. If Marth dashes towards you suddenly what is your first reaction in the middle of a match? Shield probably, as Marth can either jump into an aerial or dancing blade. They want to be able to punish this. Maybe they will spot dodge, pivot grab ***** this. Grabbing is the ultimate weapon against shields and Marth can force your opponent into shielding with little difficulty.

Landing

Even top players are going to land on the stage with an air dodge and/or shield some of the time. It's just a natural habit a lot of us have when we are trying to avoid an attack to be sent out again. Using a smash attack in this situation is possible, but it is not as reliable as our other option. Grab. Pivot grab.. whatever. Just grab them in this situation.

Punishing

Example: You shield an ftilt by Ike. You could easily dancing blade in this situation, but you can also just dash grab him. Why grab him instead of just using dancing blade? A few reasons. One is to refresh your moves a tad (grab jabs+the actual throw), but the more important one is you can follow up your grab(s) to do even more damage. Maybe you just shielded a dsmash by MK. The MK, fearing the inevitable dancing blade shields. You grab him instead (especially if you were late on your shield drop). I'm definitely not saying do this every time, since the extra damage isn't guaranteed at all (unless of course you are grab releasing MK). It's just another way to get the grab.

There are so many ways to get your opponent scared and have them shield. Short hop at your opponent.. what may be their first reaction? Oh.. he will probably space a fair. Fast fall your empty short hop and grab them. Dtilt at your opponent and watch them shield or roll, dash grab. Forward b 1, grab. They don't even have to shield... You can literally punish MK's dash approaches with a pivot grab. There's many ways and I'm not going to list them all. You will find more as you get more experienced in competitive play.

----------------

Now that that's covered... How exactly do you follow up the grabs? Which grab do you use in certain situations?

Stage Positioning

One of the best properties of Marth's grabs. They are able to put your opponent in a bad position where you can further apply pressure with your sword. If you grab your opponent near the edge don't be a moron and throw him into center stage (the ONLY time this is OK is if you are at 0% or so and are chaining it to an fsmash). Throw him off stage and try to keep him there for as long as possible. If he isn't smart he may try to be too aggressive in his getting back to stage and just double jump right back into you. Punish this. Punish it with a smash, dancing blade, or just grab again.. punish him. They should be grabbing the ledge almost every time in this situation because that's their safest option, but some people aren't smart enough to realize this. Also, if you are center stage simply fthrow or dthrow to corner them and apply pressure.

Now I'm going to go over each throw and a few little things you can do to follow them up...

F-Throw/D-Throw (Putting these together because they have basically the same follow ups)

"Fthrow is my tech chase" - Shaya
No kidding. A lot of the time your opponent will simply air dodge after the fthrow. Just dash grab him again. The situation is reset and you get more chip damage. Maybe they won't, perhaps you can chain it to a fair or nair, even an fsmash if their DI is bad enough. It's a guessing game, really. There's definitely more than this, but I'm sure you all can figure out your own little things, yes? And as well know these two chain into fsmashes.

B-Throw

...

LOL

Don't use this. It doesn't send them at a lower trajectory, that vid of Ninjalink you all saw was simply bad DI. I tested it. In all situations you can bthrow you should just dthrow. More damage, sexier looking, less lag. WTF? This is Marth's worst move.

Up-Throw

You all should use this throw more. Not just on Snake.. basically everyone. Even if you up throw at like 5%, they may just air dodge on their way down and you can grab them again. Marth's juggling game is amazing and this is a one way ticket set up. Not much to say, but this throw is good.

Grab Releasing

This stuff is good, none of it is guaranteed unless it's Ness/Lucas. I don't recommend being too risky and just randomly throwing out a dsmash. Dtilt is much safer and can pressure their shield well if that is what they do once released. You can also simply grab them again if they do this, if you condition them to not shield THEN maybe you can dsmash... but seriously it's not very reliable. You have sooo many options from the grab release, experiment with it. Also, grab releasing them on the ledge is also recommended instead of just throwing, they fall low and they have less of a chance to recover. If you grab them on the very edge of the stage I recommend just not jabbing them at all and wait for their jump release, some characters have a very hard time coming back from the trajectory it sends them.

Not going to go over jump releases, we have threads dedicated to that.

Well that about wraps it up.. Marth's grab game should be abused by everyone. The traps you put your opponent into are hard to get out of. Many mindgames can be explored with this. I may add more to this .. I may have rushed a section or two.

Either way... discuss.
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
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it should be noted that at the ledge with your back facing the ledge you should always be using dthrow, i talked to steel just about 3 minutes ago and he said that since both throws have the same trajectory but dthrow is less laggy + deals more damage it's the best option
 

takeurlife2

Smash Ace
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you shouldnt ever dash grab OOS lol, unless you pivot grab. Everyone will just spot dodge it and punish accordingly

You should also mention that you need to practice being frame perfect at grabbing opponents that are airdodging toward the ground. A quick spot dodge often follows on landing if you dont time it perfect. Pivot grab would remedy this too
 

illinialex24

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no, it's pretty great actually
Not really. Although with his speed and OoS options, it gets boosted a lot but compared to most characters in the game, its not great. Its good but not great. His damage is pretty bad, I don't believe he has any chain-grabs and few setups, with mediocre damage and relatively bad pummeling. His grab range isn't great either but it works fairly well with his game.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
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You don't know what you're talking about. You have no experience with Marth at a high level of play. Don't come in here with ignorance when I'm trying to teach you. Who's grab game is amazing then? JIGGLYPUFF?
 

Emblem Lord

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Marth's grab range is actually quite good for the record.
 

legion598

Smash Ace
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the entire reason marths throws are good is the spacing advantage he gets from them not the throws themselves marth is a controlling character and grabs give him even more control over the situation
 

legion598

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the reason marths throws are so great is because of the spacing advantage they give him not the throws themselves

I don't believe he has any chain-grabs and few setups .
actually marth can chain grab heavies with Fthrow and can Fthrow> Fsmash and an Fthrow to Fsmash tipped does around 25 damage

edit: oops random double post sorry bout that
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
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Let me explain fthrow better.

Marth's fthrow kills at what? 570% or so on Mario.

Even at 200% the **** thing is close enough for a dash + attack response.

What do I aim for in an fthrow?
Ultimate conditioning.

Fthrow to hyphen/up smash is anywhere from 21-26% damage. Awesome isn't it?
But how easy is it to avoid?

An air dodge to a buffered shield will always beat it.

So what do I want my opponent to do instead? Jump or not air dodge (i.e. attack or just 'move').
Characters with FAST frontal aerials (Marth, MK) are the ones you can't do this on, their fairs will always beat out your dash to shield.

However, what counters the air dodge to buffered shield? Grabs, as Steel already mentioned. I fthrow, they air dodge and shield I grab again. Rack up more damage, fthrow again.

If they DON'T air dodge, i.e. attempt to attack; most characters in the game will be suspectable to an upsmash. Yay, or because Marth's fair is awesome, I can in turn sh fair and most likely out do them.
If they jump, it's in my favour, I can dash to shuair. And now I've most likely got a guaranteed 2-3 uairs (up to 30%ish damage) just because they JUMPED.

So what can the opponent do? DI down and backwards. It's pretty hard to get to most characters in time if they do this. Otherwise it's all love. Dashing to shield surely takes some hard core skill, because if you're up against an MK; and they hit your shield with that dair, you cancel it with your upsmash for LOVE!.

Anyway burble burble.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
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Good stuff Shaya. It's hard enough to DI such a fast throw correctly -- mix in some dthrows and they won't know what hit 'em.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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I agree. Marths grab game is really good. I prefer to use the uthrow, Marth is just so good at juggling. Another reason why I grab a lot is to refresh stale move by pummeling. Grab -> pummel -> jump release -> dash attack is a great way to use worthless moves and refresh more important ones.

I also think Marth is really good at getting a grab as long as you mix it up right. Sometimes, when I'm in a really good position I can do SHFFfair -> dtilt -> DB1 -> grab
After the first of DB most people won't expect the grab and you can almost always get it. It's also great to explore the opponents habits. If you see the opponent rolls behind you after the Dtilt or the DB you can do a reverse grab next time. If he rolls away you can even try to dashgrab him (it's risky though).
I think Dtilt, DB1 and SHFFFair all are good moves to get a grab. In fact all moves that leave you with a shield drop advantage (SHFFFair and DB1have +3 afaik ... and dtilt has 0) are perfect to get a grab since Marths moves are so hard to shieldgrab. I do the same with lots of characters...using a SHFF Aerial (with AC of course), that gives me some shield drop advantage (shields always take 7 frames to drop unless it's a powershield) and follow up with Jab grab. Peach can do it with SHFFFair (has +5 after the opponents drop the shoeld) to jab grab (peaches jab comes out in 2 frames).

Strings like that can be hard to avoid, especially the grab that follows...that's why I always reccomend to practise the timing of the powershield...it gives you sooooooooo many more options.

:059:
 

Emblem Lord

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Sorry for trying to advance the metagame.

Some of us actually care about the OTHER Marth players though.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
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rofl@ reporting neo

hes messing around/mad that i made a thread that may have stuff that he does in his game
 

Doomblaze

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Dancing blade the crap out of your opponent them condition them to shield alot and grab them, shieldbreaker is too risky

The first time you F-throw them they're almost always going to airdodge, so chain it to another f-throw, thats some easy damage. Watch what they do every time you throw them, this is vital if you want to tech chase properly. How do they DI? What attacks do they use? Do they try to abuse airdodging? Counter whatever they do by shieldgrabbing them, dancing blading them and in general pressuring them.

U-throw is marths best throw easily because marths Uair outranges almost everyones Dairs, his u-tilt is amazing and from what ive seen will be fresh because people dont seem use it very much. Fastfall with them when they're airdodging this forces them to airdodge through you, when this happens, just Uair again, or nair them to get them off of the stage and ledge trap them.

Marths throw is underrated because we are shadowed by Dededes chaingrabs and such, but IT IS USEFUL.
 

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
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Nice thread, not much new presented but a good reinforcement of some stuff we know. And yes his grab game is highly underrated.
 

BanjoKazooiePro

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Finally. I hate it when people say Marth's grab game sucks, because in my opinion it's one of the best. Nice thread.
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
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Not bad, I didn't Marth's grabs could be used outside of molesting little kids.

You forgot Wario's and Squirtle grab release options.
 

Sailboat

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I really need to incorporate this into my play. I usually only grab+f throw and then f smash at 0%; sometimes I grab f throw and repeat that for a bit. I need to make my grabs a more frequently used tactic rather than something I only do at the start. Thanks for the info.
 

Pierce7d

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too good Neo, too good.

Anyway. I rarely grab. Only if I'm positive my opponent will shield will I grab. His sword options are just amazing. Grabbing is unsafe, because it can almost always be predicted and spot dodged. Pivot grabs are good, traps and juggling is good, but just grabbing? Eh, only if conditioned.

Oh, I guess it's good for beating shielded approaches too. I juggle mainly with Uair and Dancing Blade
 

En.Ee.Oh

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sidestepping = wait for it= brawl standard ****z


waiting rofl
 
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