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MK will never tornado you again.

UTDZac

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Let it be known that G&W's UpB is a great counter against the tornado. I'm pretty sure there aren't many G&W's that know how to do this exactly, but some probably already knew that UpB is a good choice to use while already in the tornado.

UpB doesn't stop tornado. So technically it doesn't belong in this list. However, UpB is the perfect counter move against MK. Some G&W's know that G&W while in the tornado can SDI left/right and sometimes use UpB which pushes MK way up in the air because of the air push. This is only somewhat useful, because it doesn't always work.

My useful technique: When MK is approaching with the tornado, G&W needs to jump at MK and use UpB right before entering the tornado. The timing for this isn't really tight, but depends more on the location of G&W before using UpB. The tornado is shaped like a V. Now Imagine it to be a box/square. G&W needs to be at the bottom left/right corner of this box when executing UpB. Or in other words, perpendicular to the sides of the V.

If down correctly, MK will be pushed all the way to the blastzone and G&W only half that distance. This allows G&W to get back to the ground with ample time to punish MK with and smash attack (fsmash is best option) or edgehob. Also let it be known that it's NOT possible for G&W to keep MK in the air with his uair trumpet if the MK simply smashes his control stick down repeatedly really fast (SDI the air from the trumpet just fastfall over and over). Yeah it works, seriously.

Let the ****** begin!

Another little trick. If you know MK will glide attack you out of his UpB, then you can time UpB just right and push him up and away without hurting him (sometimes you have to get hit by his UpB, haven't figured out the timing yet). Then you can punish in the same manner like you would after UpBing his tornado. The timing for this is a little harder and weirder.

Here is a video so you guys can get a visual of how-to and how-not-to perform this trick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1wub4Jg8dY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbvfUzbns-8 (Awesome bonus video, this was a real match)
 

Nicole

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This is cool! I'm gonna try this out at the tournament I'm going to this weekend and see if I can't surprise some MK players.

Also, if you use this close to the edge and push MK off the stage with the Up B air blast, will he be in helpless mode after he's done tornado-ing, or does Up B actually hit him out of the tornado?
 

K@0S

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I agree, this is the best way to counter the tornado. It's even better if you FF the up-b with an uair.

You can also dashattack, but it's slower and the reward isn't as good.
 

UTDZac

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uh you can keep him in the air easy enough, when they start the dair shenanigans, just nair him lol
OBM What I meant was when MK is in the free fall state after the tornado. MK can't attack, he just has to keep falling until he lands on the ground/edge. While in this state G&W can keep him uplift with his uair trumpet air blast. However, I was pointing out that a smart MK will simply smash the control stick down (essentially fast falling multiple times). This will allow MK to fall faster than G&W can push him back up. It's not that important, but it means less move decay reset than we could have had.
 

GimR

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the timing for the glide attack to Up-b is tough if you don't shield.

If you shield the glide attack and then up-B you'll get it every time. :)
 

omegablackmage

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ah i see what your saying, honestly though, when in that state, specially in tourney matches, i try not to f around and just go for the fsmash/upsmash
 

furiousduffmanx

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Completely agree with both UTD and OBM. In the end after practicing vs a MK will eventually help anyone get timings perfect.
Now question cause i play MKs but they are no were near as good as the MKs you guys play:
After you block MKs up-b do we get a free n-air? even if they glide attack? I landed it plenty of time but i wan to know if its guaranteed against any MK
 

UTDZac

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ah i see what your saying, honestly though, when in that state, specially in tourney matches, i try not to f around and just go for the fsmash/upsmash
I agreed. That's why I bothered to mentioned method 2 of stalling them out / repositioning them with uair is NOT worth it.

Upsmash can be a little tricky to land against a pro player with their stupid mindgames. I need to figure out if Fsmash is the best option near the edge by comparing KO percents. Fsmash is like, un-DI-able. =)
 

K 2

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hmm...that sounds really sweet. I've always wondered if the wind hitbox of up b could be used to counter Nado.
 

GimR

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ah i see what your saying, honestly though, when in that state, specially in tourney matches, i try not to f around and just go for the fsmash/upsmash
I just though of a good mind game. Because game and watches up-smash has barely any cool down frames you could go near the edge and start charging it. Your opponent will go for the ledge(While in his free fall state)

You then release your upsmash and grab the ledge for the gimp :laugh:
 

UTDZac

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I just though of a good mind game. Because game and watches up-smash has barely any cool down frames you could go near the edge and start charging it. Your opponent will go for the ledge(While in his free fall state)

You then release your upsmash and grab the ledge for the gimp :laugh:
Wow too pro. I like this, what exactly are the cooldown frames for upsmash. After charging, it releases on frame 2.
 

_Phloat_

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On a side note, this is another (small) reason to take MK to FD. Platforms make the punishment for tornados a lot harder and normally less rewarding.
 

FakeGeorge

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G&W can also Up-B from the ground if MK is approaching with a grounded tornado. It's basically the same as what UTD Zac described. This will give you more options, such as using it out-of-shield. Since shielding the tornado isn't usually a good choice, and MKs know this, it can be a way to bait them.

I wouldn't rely on using this only from the ground, though. If the tornado is even a little off the ground (I'm not exactly sure how high), then you won't launch him into the air.
 

UTDZac

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I wouldn't rely on using this only from the ground, though. If the tornado is even a little off the ground (I'm not exactly sure how high), then you won't launch him into the air.
But it works every time if you jump into the Tornado at the bottom left/right corner of it, as I described. Every time!

M2k pointed out it works on drill rush. I wonder if this can be used as an edge tactic against MK as he is drill rushing back to the stage. I'll need to find angles for it.
 

Blistering Speed

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Why are we limiting this to MK? Surely there are other characters who use moves often which send them into freefall? Would interrupting Falco's IAP with this be possible?
 

Cyan_

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The upB wind works off stage, right? So how about this...when Snake does his C4 recovery you can go offstage and upB right beside him and it would push Snake away from his C4 causing him to die. Of course you would have to land back on stage.

Has anybody tried this to see if it works or not?
 

Neb

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The upB wind works off stage, right? So how about this...when Snake does his C4 recovery you can go offstage and upB right beside him and it would push Snake away from his C4 causing him to die. Of course you would have to land back on stage.

Has anybody tried this to see if it works or not?
There's a good chance that won't work.
I believe the vortex actually acts as a hitbox, and would just restore Snake's upb.
 

_Phloat_

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GaW usually has better options that far out, and Snake isn't that predictable to allow you to guess when he is gonna C4.

EDIT: Orrrrr.. what neb said
 

Sudai

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All windboxes will give Snake (and other characters that don't go into Free Fall Special) their Up-Bs back but will not knock characters out of free fall special. I don't think the same can be said for waterboxes (Mario's and Squirtle's, not talking about the water on some stages) but I've never seen anything on that matter.

I can't believe you GnWs didn't think about this before, I mean...I don't call your Up-B "Oh ****, I don't wanna be here and I wanna make you move against your will, lawl bai! move" for nothing.. -0-
 

Mr. Escalator

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I have thought of this before and actively use it when I play MK's.
It's cold of you to make assumptions :<
 

Neb

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All windboxes will give Snake (and other characters that don't go into Free Fall Special) their Up-Bs back but will not knock characters out of free fall special. I don't think the same can be said for waterboxes (Mario's and Squirtle's, not talking about the water on some stages) but I've never seen anything on that matter.

I can't believe you GnWs didn't think about this before, I mean...I don't call your Up-B "Oh ****, I don't wanna be here and I wanna make you move against your will, lawl bai! move" for nothing.. -0-
Uum, check out the last post on the previous page, :p.
 

FakeGeorge

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But it works every time if you jump into the Tornado at the bottom left/right corner of it, as I described. Every time!
I understand. I just wanted to point out another possible method. It might not be the best option, but I think it may have its uses. Another tidbit of information that someone might find helpful, you know?
 
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