F1ZZ
Smash Lord
WHAT! Wow I can't believe I missed that.
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SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess
- Thread starter #HBC | Red Ryu
- Start date
Darth Destro
Smash Cadet
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Double posting for bumping.
Here are the videos:
Lucario (iRJi) Vs D3 (BSC) - He is my teams partner.
Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efrLRC2bdbw
Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jigrW8J--04
Match 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqwUNs9E8Q
All and all it was ok. The things where I messed up were not breaking though of his pummels at low %'s and not using my punishing opportunities to its fullest (Moving away when I had the change to actually hit him) . Still, you get the idea of what to do and what not to do.
Here are the videos:
Lucario (iRJi) Vs D3 (BSC) - He is my teams partner.
Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efrLRC2bdbw
Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jigrW8J--04
Match 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqwUNs9E8Q
All and all it was ok. The things where I messed up were not breaking though of his pummels at low %'s and not using my punishing opportunities to its fullest (Moving away when I had the change to actually hit him) . Still, you get the idea of what to do and what not to do.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
lol, the replays are too good.
But for real, I don't think Lucario has a hard time fighting against King Dedede. I KNOW it's not even, but I KNOW it's not 65:35. Lucario is an awkward character for matchups since some stages can make-or-break it.
Lucario can get into D3 in the air, and **** him when he gets offstage if D3 doesnt recover high. You can Usmash his recovery(which is always hilarious), and ftilt his shield(however it REALLY must be spaced properly). Besides Gordo's, when D3 camps with waddles, Lucario can just give them a fair while spacing(Bair shouldnt be used, as the lag on it will allow Lucario to get hit by second one if a waddle is ALREADY next to Dedede) if Lucario is close enough. Lucario can, in my opinion, camp King Dedede, as this is a very patient matchup to me.
At high percents be wary of comming in from above, since a simple side-step utilt can end a stock, and all of Dedede's other kills moves are predictable and slow, or is a Gordo.(Dedede's usually have staled Bair by now)
Even though the above seems like Lucario can make it even he still has some faults in the matchup, like getting chaingrabbed into ftilt off the stage, all forms of AS are beaten by a simple waddle(but Lucario can still camp with AS), Dedede can **** our recovery if we're not careful.
So, I really want to say it's 55:45, but it's not. But it's better than 65:35, but It's not that bad. I kinda want to say that 60:40 is where it belongs, but something doesnt settle me. Since Marth was also put in this category, and so was GnW when he was thought of as Lucario's devil. I really DON'T want to say 62:38, since that would be an awkward matchup number, but it's NOT 65:35, and it seems to be a harder matchup for Lucario than 60:40
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
Shippo you stated that some stages can make-or-break it in some MUs. I have to disagree witht his comment. Also I wouldn't suggest camping against D3 but instead be semi aggressive. To me camping is just staying back and using AS to protect you. Sooner or later the DDD will catch on and rush you, simple as that. Look at RJs first vid for example. RJ does one Fair and if he doesn't get the hit he retreats and charges his AS which is very smart but if he does get the hit he continues to punish the D3 and rack up damage. I would say this MU is 60:40 because I can't see this MU going to 65:35.
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
Good stuff, RJ. Your Lucario is just quick good strategy with FThrow and damage racking via Aura Sphere camping when he tries to get back onto the stage. Man, he sure got a lot of Gordos first game.
I would like to point out that you should use your jabs/utilt on the Waddles to help refresh your stuff (also letting the first jab combo easier into stuff oh and it can help shield against other waddles if they are in the air a lil'). Like his second stock in your first game would've been gone via Aura Sphere at 4:45 if you refreshed on the Waddles when ya had the chance.
Edit: I'd have to guess this match-up is about 55:45 D3's favor.
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
The thing that always gives me hope in this MU is DDD's size. He's so susceptible to combos.
I would suggest maybe using fullhop fairs or Dairing behind him because they aren't as easy to sheild grab.
Jab mixups and FP combos work well in this matchup (if I recall correctly). I might be playing some D3's today in a tourny, so I'll share my thoughts when I get back.
I would suggest maybe using fullhop fairs or Dairing behind him because they aren't as easy to sheild grab.
Jab mixups and FP combos work well in this matchup (if I recall correctly). I might be playing some D3's today in a tourny, so I'll share my thoughts when I get back.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
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- 2,423
Oh, which reminds me, I found a combo against d3 a while ago that should be garenteed from 0. Tested it with pierce. The combo is:
Utilt, Jab, FP, Fair, Nair.
Now what happens is, from the Utilt to jab, it pushes him into the air with enough hit stun to be grabbed with FP. Since D3 has no moves fast enough to come out to handel that, he falls into it. Since he has damage from the first 2 hits, FP is also harder to break out of. I normally throw 2, but throwing one is what leads to the Fair to nair combo. Go test it, have fun with it. I am 90% sure it works.
D. Disciple
Smash Master
I've done this, it's another variation of my fp combos on big opponents.
MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
Up until around what percent would you say it works for Lucario, RJ?
Utilt is amazing. I nearly forgot to mention at some points of those games you could've Utilted him for a kill, but you FSmashed him shortly after, so its kinda moot.
Also in regards to the D3 match-up here's some delicious Aura Sphere prioritization info. Since we're taking these more seriously we gotta throw some definite numbers around, yes?
Utilt is amazing. I nearly forgot to mention at some points of those games you could've Utilted him for a kill, but you FSmashed him shortly after, so its kinda moot.
Also in regards to the D3 match-up here's some delicious Aura Sphere prioritization info. Since we're taking these more seriously we gotta throw some definite numbers around, yes?
Ruined said:
iRJi
Smash Champion
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if d3 is over 15% I wouldn't attempt the combo. As for lucario's percent it can be started at any, but the ending combos, will be cut off if you are too high, since knockback plays a factor.
It should take him to about 40ish percent, so its always a thing to keep in mind in the MU.
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
Have to try this combo out when I get the chance (mom is watching TV) and I could probably make a video of it for people to watch.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I actually think that D3's weight and survivability are the reason it could be 40:60 disadvantage. If he were lighter, this would be much more in our favor, since CG is possible to get around with getting CGd infrequently, which is only to compensate for how much damage we can dish to him if we get a grab or setup, D3 just plain outlives us which can make the MU pretty stupid.
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
For Stages against D3 I would go with:
Yoshi's Island because of our ability to wall cling. Helps us live a little bit longer and lets us be a little less predictable.
I would try to avoid Smashville because of the stage being SO small.
Yoshi's Island because of our ability to wall cling. Helps us live a little bit longer and lets us be a little less predictable.
I would try to avoid Smashville because of the stage being SO small.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Rainbow Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Lylat I guess...
I would ban FD or Smashville.
I would ban FD or Smashville.
<<
DDD mains would rejoice if you pick Rainbow Cruise on them, btw.
It's quite possibly the stupidest choice you could possibly make. Small-steps, walk-offs, and infinites everywhere, combined with very small blastzones... Why the hell would you possibly want to take DDD here? >>
iRJi
Smash Champion
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Tbh, It's one of D3's worse stages. Bad mobility, horrible recovery, and about 2/3's of the stage where the chaingrab will do minimal damage. You would be amazed how much of a bad stage rainbow is for d3. if you get caught against a wall, that is about 90% a player fault.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
What about Japes guys?
I don't know if D3 has some huge thing I'm not aware of there, but there's a lot of good things about it, namely his best killers (besides bair) are vertical, his CG is mitigated to only like 3 times at most because of how the platforms limit his CG time, so he'll be using bair a lot more in the MU, which will be super stale when it comes time to kill you, and it makes our camp game better, it also lets us live against usmash, utilt, and dsmash, which are his better kill moves. That and he can't edgeguard us much on this stage.
I don't know if D3 has some huge thing I'm not aware of there, but there's a lot of good things about it, namely his best killers (besides bair) are vertical, his CG is mitigated to only like 3 times at most because of how the platforms limit his CG time, so he'll be using bair a lot more in the MU, which will be super stale when it comes time to kill you, and it makes our camp game better, it also lets us live against usmash, utilt, and dsmash, which are his better kill moves. That and he can't edgeguard us much on this stage.
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
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On the top part of the stage DDD can infinite us without a wall I believe.
It's a new discover like his Inhale to buffered Utilt but with rainbow cruise due to how the stage not the camera moves the momentum lets DDD infinite more than the unfortunate 5 who get infinited everywhere else.
Also as a kick in the pants if Yoshi's island melee is allowed, Lucario is one of the few people DDD can chaingrab up the slope.
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
Ya but we can curve our recovery to avoid the attack and remember there is a whole lot of wall to cling to.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Well, if he were to dair us while clinging and we live, then he puts himself at a severe disadvantage since we can up-B to ledge faster than he can, then we edgeguard the pengi
hichez50
Smash Lord
I would never make the assumption that we live in a senario like this. We have to assume the worse and the best. We need to be prepared for both situations.
Lol @ Rainbow Cruise being a "bad Dedede stage." That's just straight up false.
I would recommend Brinstar to a Lucario player fighting a Dedede. Most people don't really know why because of the low boundaries and whatnot, but it's a phenomenal Lucario stage.
I would recommend Brinstar to a Lucario player fighting a Dedede. Most people don't really know why because of the low boundaries and whatnot, but it's a phenomenal Lucario stage.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Iunno, seems a lot of Lucario Players hate Brinstar for some reason
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Frankly for the wallcling factor, I wouldn't be afraid of dtilt/dair, since dtilt you would need to be really close to get knocked, and dair is very easy to see coming, and is very risky. I would be afraid of bairing our wallcling, on the other hand, in fact, I think bair is the worst part of fighting against D3 as Lucario, CG is very doable, but a fast long ranged sex kick that can put lucario's recovery on ice? Pretty nasty. You have to be extra careful with it, and DI it properly, or it will spell the end of a stock very easily.
Oh and if we are assuming highest levels of play, killing a lucario from wallcling on highest levels is technically impossible, at least if the lucario could tech consistently (unless it's MK, then you're screwed because his aerials don't have much abusable end lag to let you recover safely). It's a very possible option when getting attacked, and it's humanly possible to tech consistently, but most don't :\
Oh and if we are assuming highest levels of play, killing a lucario from wallcling on highest levels is technically impossible, at least if the lucario could tech consistently (unless it's MK, then you're screwed because his aerials don't have much abusable end lag to let you recover safely). It's a very possible option when getting attacked, and it's humanly possible to tech consistently, but most don't :\
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
False. Killing Lucario from wall clinging is very doable, and possible. Footstooling the Wall jump will get you killed, Period. Not to mention its very easy to do.
Also false. The close boundries might be in our benifit, but the close quarters of the stage is the issue. A character with decent kill power, and the ability to move faster will **** him here. Lucario as a character needs space, that's something Brinstar denies him of.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting we can get footstooled when we are in the wallcling stance.
>.<
However, you can't get FS from the walljump if you AD.
But the whole "Stage spike = stock loss" is false on the notion that lucario can tech the hit.
>.<
However, you can't get FS from the walljump if you AD.
But the whole "Stage spike = stock loss" is false on the notion that lucario can tech the hit.
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Are people seriously suggesting counterpicking DDD with Rainbow Cruise? You'd have to be borderline ******** to do that.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
People keep insulting each other for CPing/not CPing with RC
So instead of that, why don't we list pros/cons?
imo there's a lot of abusable mechanics against D3, but walkoffs/infinites on lots of the parts is not my idea of fun.
So instead of that, why don't we list pros/cons?
imo there's a lot of abusable mechanics against D3, but walkoffs/infinites on lots of the parts is not my idea of fun.
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Go ahead, name a lot of abusable mechanics. Ones that Lucario doesn't get abused by much worse.
RT
Smash Hero
IMO, taking D3 to RC is a bad idea, unless you can stay below him the entire time. On the top parts, it has pretty low ceilings. The ship is small and has very little room to work with plus a wall for wall infinites. There are also a large amount of platforms, which can go either way.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Gives lucario's camping a boost, for one. All that platform chasing isn't good for D3, especially on the second part.
Still, I wouldn't go there.
Seriously though, does anyone else endorse the idea of CPing DDD with JJ? His CG and vertical KO ability goes away, leaving bair, which gets stale, plus we outcamp him, and unless he nails you with klap trap, you won't get gimped if played right.
RT
Smash Hero
Japes really becomes a campfest. I did it to a Snake...pretty boring and I felt dirty afterwards. <_<
It's not a bad stage, but just bring a tent...
And if the Dedede ever gets a percent lead, good luck...
Some places don't even consider it legal.
It's not a bad stage, but just bring a tent...
And if the Dedede ever gets a percent lead, good luck...
Some places don't even consider it legal.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Wha? D3 can't truly air camp, can he?
And don't tell me he'll bair you away, that's punishable.
And don't tell me he'll bair you away, that's punishable.
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
How the hell does Rainbow Cruise give camping a boost? It's a MOVING ****ING STAGE!