The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

A2ZOMG said:

Ganondorf is worse than Captain Falcon though.

As a Ganon user, I can tell you this. So we must save him for last.

Click to expand...

Thats what i meant.

I love Ganon so much, he's almost as fun as Mario.

Buuuuuuuut Mario doesn't have the Knee of Justice, the pinnacle of epicness.

So guys choose between the King of Evil or the King of Epicness (their power was too good for brawl so they highly nerfed them)

we can do both at the same time

doesnt go crazy indepth lol

I know Mario has the advantage for both match-up's...

But I don't know if he does slightly better vs Ganon or Falcon...

I'm leaning more towards Ganon suprisingly, I think he can give Mario a better go then Falcon can.

If you guys want to, then I guess we can end with both of them. Start!

65:35 Mario for Ganon, fireballs wreck him and his moves are too slow to destroy them like Marth can. (Bad comparison Marth is a WAYYY better character than Ganondorf)

I see 65:35 on Ganon and 60/40 on C. Falcon since both of them have bad recovery, bad approach, bad camping, and somewhat of a poor recovery when we can edgeguard and cape them.

There is a Ganon ranked in northern california

Ya, it's Michael Hey?

Quite impressive what he can do. Actually really impressive.

i think its 5/5 with cf

55:45 or 6/4 mario against ganon

with cf dont be dumb and throw fireballs just cause he has no projectile and dont get combo'd

against ganon camp the **** outta him and hope you dont get hit lol

I kinda agree agree with the 6:4 Mario vs. C. Falcon. Against him, you can play either aggressively or campy. You should use a lot of high priority like SHnair. They **** C. Falcon because his priority is terrible. He isn't hard to edgeguard, just bair him away. I would say play patiently because C. Falcon players will normally take the offensive so just punish it. He isn't hard to combo and I don't think has a good combo breaker.

Ganondorf is 65:35 or 70:30 Mario. He is slow as hell. His fastest move is a frame 8 jab. The normal reaction time for an average person is equal to 6 frames so technically you can see a move coming (by that I mean you can see Ganon about to use the move like you would see Mario using his Fsmash). Camp the crap out of him. His frame data is utter crap and his grab range is also bad. Once again, he can be easily gimped and edgeguarded. Just don't be me when facing a Ganon and think "It's ganon so i can do stupid **** and it'll work" You gotta play semi-cautious. Wait and punish the crap out of him.

It's 6-4 Mario's favor. Don't have time to explain right now though

Actually, I thought human reaction time was around 13 frames, not 6. 6 I thought was like pro status. And that's probably after tons of muscle memory has been reinforced.

And Ganon isn't as terrible as you make him out to be. Yes, you can camp him, but if he's running around you spacing with reversed uairs [which can be fairly safe] and he can dash attack through your fireballs if I am not mistaken. Good luck camping him. I'd say the cape is what would make it so easy.

Ganon is 70:30 Mario. Mario has more priority, speed, and faster attack. You can juggle ganon easily since he's heavyweight. Oh and you can gimp him very easily, i would tie it with Link. Anti cape works very well and you can acutally be free to go cape happy. And also ganon moves are easy to punish. The only thing you have to worry about is his heavy weight and strong kill power.

Falcon is similar but he isnt hard to kill and since he's faster overall and faster attack, i'd say 60:40 Mario.

Two of my best friends are moderately good Captain Falcon and Ganondorf mains.

Captain Falcon is easy to get inside. That's the largest mark against him. After you get inside it's just too much fun, everything works on him easily. Utilt lock, dair>uair, ect. Falcon has some good jab tricks and can juggle fairly well, even edgeguard decently against Mario, but it doesn't stack up to what Mario has on him. Mario edgeguards better than CF and Mario has a better recovery (due to options and not distance.) Falcon is rather easy to just bair against the stage and it's not suprising to cape him, just watch out for the grab priority on his up b. If you get up b'd against the stage, just tech it.

Ganondorf is about as easy to approach as Falcon, but don't mess up or you're in for a world of hurt. Most things that are true against Falcon are true against Ganondorf. Ganondorf is even easier to edgeguard than Falcon. Ganondorf is even easier to avoid. Key words: Don't get hit. If you get hit, don't get predictable. Ganondorf will eat you if you get predictable.

Mario's lack of range, more importantly, disjointed range, keep him from destroying these characters like Marth would. Mario's sub par recovery against two characters that arn't bad at edgeguarding is also a factor.

Captain Falcon: 65:35 Mario.

Ganondorf: 60:40 Mario.

Ganondorf does better because when you get hit, you feel it hard.

Superspright said:

Actually, I thought human reaction time was around 13 frames, not 6. 6 I thought was like pro status. And that's probably after tons of muscle memory has been reinforced..

Click to expand...

Maybe reaction time wasn't the word I wanted. My point is there isn't a single attack he has fast enough to not be seen with a physical movement. For example, Mario's Usmash is frame 9 at the back of his head iirc. Before he executes the attack, you can see the movement of him moving his head back to prepare the hitboxes. With Mario's jab, you can't see any preparation because it's too fast for the human eye to see (frame 2). Muscle memory probably does have something to do with it. Also in case you didn't know, one frame is equal to 1/60 of a second so a frame 6 move would come out in 1/10 of a second which you can definitely see coming. It will take time to react that quickly though.

Inferno3044 said:

I kinda agree agree with the 6:4 Mario vs. C. Falcon. Against him, you can play either aggressively or campy. You should use a lot of high priority like SHnair. They **** C. Falcon because his priority is terrible. He isn't hard to edgeguard, just bair him away. I would say play patiently because C. Falcon players will normally take the offensive so just punish it. He isn't hard to combo and I don't think has a good combo breaker.

Click to expand...

Good falcons don't play totally aggressive now. We prefer a pseudo-aggressive approach. While cape eliminates one of our recoveries and fludd can pose a possible gimp, I don't think we're completely helpless off the ledge. Mario does combo us pretty hard though and we do like the fight up close, which he can bring. Campy could pose a problem if you follow it with aggression. falcon will probably use grab grab releases to set up for damage and possible kos, and cp platforms to get the most use out of up tilt. 60/40 does sound about right though, not much experience with mario.

Just going to warn you now: Don't make the same mistake I did. Don't CP Rainbow Cruise against a Ganon who knows the stage thinking "It's RC. Ganon is screwed.". He can camp us pretty hard on that stage so long as he knows what to do.

Human reaction time is 12 frames on average. 6 frames is about as fast as humanly possible. For people who play fighting games a lot, the reaction time should be faster than 12.

That's what I remember reading on the Bowser boards at least.

Average reaction time is 12-13 frames, but can get up to about 6 frames in the highest level play.

Ganondorf is 65/35 Mario at minimum. Ganondorf lacks the tools to actually do anything in high level play, and Mario can simply take his time camping him with fireballs and poking/zoning him with Jabs, B-air, and D-air. There is nothing Ganondorf can do when Mario pressures his shield with his D-air and Jab, so getting inside his range usually ***** him. Offstage, he will get gimped easily with N-airs, capes, Fludds, fireballs, etc. Ganondorf is also horribly unsafe whenever he does anything on a shield or spotdodge, and this is something that Mario can capitalize on extremely effectively due to his good combo game and quick punish options. You can basically D-smash anything Ganondorf does if you shield or spotdodge his moves on reaction. Ganondorf would do really well in this matchup if his shieldgrab actually had range, but since his grabs are all garbage, and his Flame Choke is easily spotdodged and punished on reaction, there is nothing Ganondorf can do if Mario camps and pokes, and he gets comboed and gimped horribly in this matchup. What Ganondorf will try to do is create juggling openings by punishing predicted Fireballs with his Dash attack. He can also gimp Mario pretty effectively with his U-air, and abuse his leanback on F-smash to punish predicted approaches. Simply watch out for those things while you do your thing.

vs Falcon is like 55/45 or 6/4 Mario's favor, depending a bit on the stage (does slightly better on Smashville at least, where he makes better use of the platform than you do). Falcon can do some stuff to zone if he can time his N-air correctly, and his Jab is moderately annoying since it has decent range and he can Jab cancel into grabs. His U-tilt is a decently safe anti-air option, so be careful before recklessly approaching into that. Mario has better combos overall however, and still has the advantage offstage with the usual N-airs, FLUDDs, Capes, Fireballs, and Falcon really can't kill you in general if you don't mess up due to all of his kill moves having fail applications and speed in general. His best KO move overall is his B-air, and he can only really "safely" apply it from generic juggles, so if you can avoid that, you shouldn't have much trouble avoiding anything else he might try to kill with.

up air is falcons best kill move, b-air can be used in approaches and spaced correctly will not result in a shield grab.

Experience has taught me that Captain Falcon has more valuable tools against Mario than Ganondorf does, so Falcon would be the harder fight, but both match-ups are clearly in Mario's favor.

60:40 Mario vs Falcon
65:35/70:30 (leaning to 65:35) Mario vs Ganon

I don't really have the time to make a optimum post right now, because I have to head to work, but I'll post something in the near future.

The best Falcon I've played was Ally in low tier. I'd have to say it's at least Mario's favor 60:40.

I don't face many Ganons but I believe it's a quite easy match up.

Ally is like best CF in this country possibly.

You can possibly make that 2 since he plays in Canada too.

Yeah, I know

Falcons can grab release to UAir Mario, which, as said before, is Falcon's best KO move. Though, it really wouldn't be in that situation, but it'll still kill rather early. It'll also be good for juggling and damaging purposes.

Falcon can punish much more of Mario's moves than Ganon can, he'll also be shield grabbing you more due to the little extra range it has compared to Ganon's (3.25 and 2.75). Falcons will mostly get a grab in right after a jab, which they could then follow up with a release.

Jab > Grab (pummel) > Release > UAir > Other possible combos. That would do about 20% damage, roughly, and put Mario in a bad position (vulnerable to other stuff).

Off stage, both characters will be gimping you with the same amount of potential, but if the Mario plays safe and times his cape, he (or she) should be able to avoid all gimp attempts. Cape wrecks Ganon more than it does Falcon. Mario also has a UAir right out of Ganon's recovery if I recall correctly.

Both characters are very easy to juggle and combo, both could also avoid combo attempts, but Falcon can break out with a few quick moves, while Ganon is forced to break out with a jump, which Mario can mimic.

All in all, both match-ups are in Mario's favor.

60:40 or 55:45 Falcon.

65:35 or 70:30 Ganon.

im with Ray on 60:40 vs. C. Falcon. ganon debating between myself

Ally is good with CF? Can I see a video of him playing as him?

you didn't knew that?
his falcon is great^^
would agree with ray saying 60:40 falcon and 65:35 ganon both in marios favour

berserker01 said:

Ally is good with CF? Can I see a video of him playing as him?

Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVV9SRI91GA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSwXnBJNhPQ&feature=related

His Falcon is awesome

His CF is too gud, those matches were gud btw when I saw 1st it on YT.

Man, Ally is a the bomb with CF O_O At least he proves that low-tier characters are awesome and the best part is that CF is bottom-tier

Like I said, he's like one of the best CF players in low-tier tournies.

Low tier tourneys? Awesome, I wonder what he would think if CF was top-tier

If CF was top tier, he'll have manly priority, lag-less moves, and good tournament rankings. Ally would use him for regular tournies along w/ Snake then.

Ally won a tourny with CF once... Granted, last match of Grand Finals was the only match he used him I think, when Anther went Sonic and he went CF.