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Yoshi v. Donkey Kong [Summary Updated: 8/17/2009]

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: This is the thread for discussion on the Yoshi v. Donkey Kong matchup.

Matchup Summary:

How to fight DK:

I think DK can be a hard match up if you let him get momentum. This match up has to do with momentum and can go both ways.

From the very beginning you will want to try to camp with eggs and pivot grabs. As you do that try to figure out how he is approaching and think on how to punish it. So if you find out that the DK you are playing is mostly approaching with Bairs then you want to find out how to punish that. The best way to that is either a spot dodge or a pivot grab. If he is a approaching with SHed air dodges or empty SHs you should try to space him with Bairs. What you want to do in a match up is make your opponent get into bad positions and you punish it. For DK the best way to that is to camp him to force approaches. But you don't want to camp the whole match because eventually he will get inside and figure out your camp patterns. To avoid that mix it up with a few Dairs for damage and Bairs. Try to lower his shield so you can start poking his shield with Bairs and eggs. The best way to lower his shield is with eggs and consecutive hits like Dair. Once you see his shield getting weaker work you way inside and start using your fast moves like Nairs, jabs, tilts and bairs. Also occasional pivot grabs when inside. This match ups just requires you to stick to the basics and punish DKs lag. Now, KOing, KOing Dk is no easy task he is hard to gimp due to UpB and he is a very heavy character. So you are going to want to save your Upsmash, Uair and Fsmash. Now the hard part is landing the moves. Most of the time you should wait till DK is at about 125% before going for the KO because he is so heavy. The best way to land the KO is to punish his lag with a pivot Fsmash or hyphen Upsmash. But, there is other options that make KOing pretty easy in fact. If you know how to CG all you need to do is condition him with your CG so he try's to jump out then when he is at KO percentage. Start CGing him then before you get to the edge release him then dash SH Uair. If you are unsure about the release and CG you can look at my guide on CGing and release in the "how to hatch a healthy yoshi guide."


One last think don't try to force a KO because DK has a very fast SA Dk punch which will punish KO attempts. Also watch his range of his smash they WILL catch you off guard if your new to the match up.

Gimping DK:

Gimping DK can be easy if you know what your doing. His recovery is very different from other characters so you can't play it the same way as others. DKs recovery is a horizontal recovery which means he is going to be recovering horizontal of the stage. That makes his recovery pretty punishable with Dair. It can be a little tricky to land the Dair though. You will want to go directly above DK because hitting his arms will cause you to get hit instead of him. If you go directly above him with the Dair it will put him to low for UpB to recover. He lacks alot of vertical so he wont be recovering out of spikes at all. So take complete advantage of that. Also it is possible to land a run off Fair even while he is UpBing. Though this is hard and situational it is possible. You will have to know the timing to land a run off Fair in order to do this. To do this you will have to abuse the range of the Fair and go right below his UpB range (at his feet). The only way you can land it without you getting hit first is if you go right below his spinning arms.

btw: WATCH THE FOOTSTOOL after you land a Dair if he is at a lower percentage he can footstool you because the Dair wont spike him at low percentages. Due to the footstool DK will still be able to recover and you will be flying south. So only go for the Dair at higher percentages


:004:
 

Drakkhonian

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
12
Location
Brazil, Ponta Grossa, PR
I don't know why, but I always miss the time to dodge the Fsmash. XD

But I believe DK can and should be egg spammed, shield grabbed and spiked.

As for face to face combat, I get the feel yoshi is faster so I tend to actually go all out if he comes close.

Air combat-wise keep away from his B-air, somehow it kills me, his N-air is also something to consider.

Oh, for all Yoshis: Don't get hit by him! Any hit he does to you is BAD!

My little impression,
Love ya!
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: I hope I'm not the only Yoshi who finds this matchup ridiculously easy.

I'd like to think I play a good Donkey Kong in my area and the only thing I have to worry about is downsmash spam when he needs a KO and like...grabs. That's it. I try to approach this matchup much in the same way like King Dedede and it's given me lots of insight into how abusable enemy shields are.
 

Drakkhonian

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
12
Location
Brazil, Ponta Grossa, PR
You're not Shiri, this matchup is really easy for us.

I'm just pointing out the places where we should be careful, since...you know...never hurts to be carful ?? :laugh:

Love ya!
 

Metatitan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,576
Location
Six Feet Under
:yoshi: I hope I'm not the only Yoshi who finds this matchup ridiculously easy.

I'd like to think I play a good Donkey Kong in my area and the only thing I have to worry about is downsmash spam when he needs a KO and like...grabs. That's it. I try to approach this matchup much in the same way like King Dedede and it's given me lots of insight into how abusable enemy shields are.
you have never played a good DK if u think this matchup is ez. DK is fat and pretty hard to kill, so ur best bet is attempting a gimp b4 he up B's (good luck gimping that). We aren't fat enough to easily live any of DK's finishers, and he has quite a bit. ur only option really is to camp, which i don't do in friendlies so idk how it would go in a tourny match. BTW Bigfoot since ur probly reading this, ur DI is really good.
 

itsthebigfoot

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
1,949
Location
ventura county CA
my in person yoshi experience is limited to metatitan, randoms in the area, my doubles partners secondary yoshi, bwett, furbs and a single friendly with burntsocks, but I think I know the matchup decently enough

egg camp is annoying, but only really useful at a distance, once dk gets in close you don't have a good gtfo move to reset the camp with. once dk is inside you're pretty screwed, since I can spam ftilts on you, most characters can shield and punish this, but yoshis punishment game is terrible, so ftilt becomes safe. ftilt clanks or outprioritizes all of your moves, the notable ones it beats are bair, your pivot grab (it'll hit you before the grab box comes out, outranges it too), basically any aerial and your jab. it clanks with all your smashes, but is significantly faster than them, and outranges them. it will basically force you to roll away (rolling inside will get you hit with either dsmash, downb, fsmash, punch or a grab depending on how predictable it was (most likely grab or dsmash). so yeah, up close you lose.

in the air bair hurts you a lot, it does beat out your bair in terms of speed and range, so your best bet is to turn him around.

ko wise, dk lives forever, he does this to everyone but yoshi should be noted because yoshi has to be careful not to stale his uair/usmash. yoshi has to start worrying about the punch/usmash at around 70, fsmash around 85, and dsmash around 100/110 and bair/utilt/uair around 130. if you make it to 150 don't get hit, because pretty much everything kos (ftilt and bthrow will start koing if we didn't diminish it to hell). on your ko moves, if we shield your usmash we get a grab, if you do a rising uair through a platform we can usmash oos, so be careful not to hit his shield.

also, @ guy who said dk would spam dsmash, dsmash is really unsafe and we only really spam it if we're screwing around/not trying, so I really wouldn't rely on dsmash spam, fsmash is much more spammable.

if you get grabbed expect to be put into a bad position and most likely take 30-40% more damage.

yoshi has problems punishing the upb too, so we might spam that on you for shield pressure/easy % if you try to dodge it.

honestly, I've yet to lose to a yoshi offline in a serious match, and lost maybe 1 friendly (online he's a little ******* though). he isn't that hard for dk, he gets outspaced pretty easily, he has a somewhat annoying projectile, but not much to back it up with camp wise.

one thing yoshi can do that's pretty annoying is get him up in the air and pivot grab his landings, it doesn't always work (a headbutt or double jump will get around it) but it's annoying as hell. definite dk advantage, put whatever number you want, but i'd say 65-35ish
 

Metatitan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,576
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Six Feet Under
couldn't have summed it up better sam. i should probly camp u in a friendlies match to see how well i do... but friendlies is the time to have fun so ionno
 

SOVAman

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
5,313
Location
In VA **** MD
How to fight DK:

I think DK can be a hard match up if you let him get momentum. This match up has to do with momentum and can go both ways.

From the very beginning you will want to try to camp with eggs and pivot grabs. As you do that try to figure out how he is approaching and think on how to punish it. So if you find out that the DK you are playing is mostly approaching with Bairs then you want to find out how to punish that. The best way to that is either a spot dodge or a pivot grab. If he is a approaching with SHed air dodges or empty SHs you should try to space him with Bairs. What you want to do in a match up is make your opponent get into bad positions and you punish it. For DK the best way to that is to camp him to force approaches. But you don't want to camp the whole match because eventually he will get inside and figure out your camp patterns. To avoid that mix it up with a few Dairs for damage and Bairs. Try to lower his shield so you can start poking his shield with Bairs and eggs. The best way to lower his shield is with eggs and consecutive hits like Dair. Once you see his shield getting weaker work you way inside and start using your fast moves like Nairs, jabs, tilts and bairs. Also occasional pivot grabs when inside. This match ups just requires you to stick to the basics and punish DKs lag. Now, KOing, KOing Dk is no easy task he is hard to gimp due to UpB and he is a very heavy character. So you are going to want to save your Upsmash, Uair and Fsmash. Now the hard part is landing the moves. Most of the time you should wait till DK is at about 125% before going for the KO because he is so heavy. The best way to land the KO is to punish his lag with a pivot Fsmash or hyphen Upsmash. But, there is other options that make KOing pretty easy in fact. If you know how to CG all you need to do is condition him with your CG so he try's to jump out then when he is at KO percentage. Start CGing him then before you get to the edge release him then dash SH Uair. If you are unsure about the release and CG you can look at my guide on CGing and release in the "how to hatch a healthy yoshi guide."


One last think don't try to force a KO because DK has a very fast SA Dk punch which will punish KO attempts. Also watch his range of his smash they WILL catch you off guard if your new to the match up.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: Snap, Lil' B dropping that 2010 wisdom!

I agree especially with not forcing the KO. Running into random smashes/Donkey Punch when they get on that interception tip is not fun.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Bigfoot if you ever come down to san diego lets 5$ Money Match, and you should come down :p
Although some of the stuff you say is true, I think you underestimate yoshis punish game on Dk way too much, DK has NO quick aerials that hit in front of him , so he is very vulnerable to aerial regrabs/pivot grabs. I think DK wins because hes has a good gimping game on yoshi (similarly to how kirby wins because of that), but its close.

Btw i am very confident i would kick your *** so get at me /cocky little freak
 

Elefterios

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
488
Location
Montreal
How to fight DK:

I think DK can be a hard match up if you let him get momentum. This match up has to do with momentum and can go both ways.

From the very beginning you will want to try to camp with eggs and pivot grabs. As you do that try to figure out how he is approaching and think on how to punish it. So if you find out that the DK you are playing is mostly approaching with Bairs then you want to find out how to punish that. The best way to that is either a spot dodge or a pivot grab. If he is a approaching with SHed air dodges or empty SHs you should try to space him with Bairs. What you want to do in a match up is make your opponent get into bad positions and you punish it. For DK the best way to that is to camp him to force approaches. But you don't want to camp the whole match because eventually he will get inside and figure out your camp patterns. To avoid that mix it up with a few Dairs for damage and Bairs. Try to lower his shield so you can start poking his shield with Bairs and eggs. The best way to lower his shield is with eggs and consecutive hits like Dair. Once you see his shield getting weaker work you way inside and start using your fast moves like Nairs, jabs, tilts and bairs. Also occasional pivot grabs when inside. This match ups just requires you to stick to the basics and punish DKs lag. Now, KOing, KOing Dk is no easy task he is hard to gimp due to UpB and he is a very heavy character. So you are going to want to save your Upsmash, Uair and Fsmash. Now the hard part is landing the moves. Most of the time you should wait till DK is at about 125% before going for the KO because he is so heavy. The best way to land the KO is to punish his lag with a pivot Fsmash or hyphen Upsmash. But, there is other options that make KOing pretty easy in fact. If you know how to CG all you need to do is condition him with your CG so he try's to jump out then when he is at KO percentage. Start CGing him then before you get to the edge release him then dash SH Uair. If you are unsure about the release and CG you can look at my guide on CGing and release in the "how to hatch a healthy yoshi guide."


One last think don't try to force a KO because DK has a very fast SA Dk punch which will punish KO attempts. Also watch his range of his smash they WILL catch you off guard if your new to the match up.
I couldn't agree more.
 

Poltergust

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Doughnuts > Bagels

*cough* Anyways, if DK is in the air and is facing towards Yoshi then he really can't do anything besides air-dodge because Yoshi is, overall, better in the air than him (similar to King Dedede, who has a **** b-air but a mediocre air game overall).

Now, DK is pretty vulnerable to Yoshi's chain-grab since he can do a couple of fatal follow-ups on him. The main thing that Yoshi wants to do is to correctly space his pivot-grabs. Grabs are actually pretty important in this match-up since they:

1. Allow Yoshi to chain-grab/follow-up.
2. Get DK in the air above Yoshi, which is NOT a good place to be in in this match-up.
3. Break through DK's super-armor (I love this aspect of grabs ^_^)

I will post more if need be, but I do believe this match-up is around 60:40 DK simply because of the KO factor. It would be even if Yoshi could KO DK earlier, but whatever...
 

Tidycats29

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Bleh this match up is annoying to me

it's like DDD but a bit harder imo

you can pivot grab DK on any air approach even if he bairs
you should grab him if spaced

up close our jab comes out faster than Dk side tilt
after you jab him you do get hit though
so its better to jab once and follow with a down smash or Fome ha(yoshi bomb)
otherwise the afterlag of jab will get you hit with dtilt or side tilt

err everything else is pretty much been said
camp and grab

what makes this match up extremely annoying is the fact how easy Dk can kill ya and how hard it is to kill him
honestly thats the only reason i see Dk having the slight advantage on this
 

Drakkhonian

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
12
Location
Brazil, Ponta Grossa, PR
I believe is actually pretty even, mostly 55-45 to either side.

Because it depends, if the yoshi player can dodge the DK he has a slight beter position, if he can't evade well everytime, DK have that better position (that's my case).

Also, doughtnuts...........*drools*

Love ya and all doughnuts!
 

Yosheon

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
35
Location
United States
Egg spam and grabs are the best things to do here. Using Yoshi's d-air to gimp DK's recovery shouldn't be hard since it barely has an vertical ascension.
 

EdreesesPieces

Smash Bros Before Hos
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I played Jmex, probably the best DK in socal for 3-4 hours the other day, doing mostly Yoshi vs Donkey Kong. At first I was beating him a lot more , but when DK understands the matchup it does closen the gap, though I still think it's in Yoshi's advantage. Things to watch out for are DK's tilts, this can get pretty tough for Yoshi as you'll have to take the air and cannot totally rely on your ETS or pivot grabs because his f-tilt is really **** huge range.
 

MX778

Smash Journeyman
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Columbus, Ohio
Yoshi beats DK when it comes to camping.
But, DK ***** Yoshi when it comes to range. Those long *** arms of him causes somewhat of a problem for us. And DK's B-air practically beats anything that we except for Pivot grab or Egg lay. :/

Also, watch out for the "Sakurai Combo"! I've seen this happen quite a few times and it's not a pretty sight... O.O
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: I've noticed DK players are getting more and more comfortable with that, hahaha. Totally not cool.

I haven't played against DK in a while and I missed Will when I was in GA. D:

Maybe I can fight another one again soon.

Bigz played against Will at the tournament I went to, but he did a lot of stuff in that set that I didn't really agree with~

...but hindsight is for the win, so it's whatever. I would like to play a good DK again soon.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Alright so:
Me and bigfoot had our bagel match a few weeks ago, it was pretty close, i went falcon 3rd round, but he beat me.
I think Dk wins 60:40 on neutrals, just because of that **** downsmash killing ****.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
Erm, what's the Sakurai Combo?
:yoshi: Headbutt to Giant Punch.

It sounds silly, but DK players are getting more use out of their headbutt and are getting much better at spotting uses for it by punishing bad habits, some general character flaws, and abusing some simple game mechanics.

P.S. - Sockz, I may be misunderstanding, but why pick that ratio on neutrals just for the downsmash? Is it less effective on counterpick stages, do you think? It just seemed like a really arbitrary way to form the sentence, so I was wondering if you meant something in particular by it.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I didnt mean downsmash on neutrals lol.
I meant
On neutrals, DK has the advantage, because of his killing options.
However, yoshi does have the advantage on quite a few of his cps.

Lol
 

bigman40

Smash Master
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Oct 11, 2007
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Just another day.
Dsmash is easy to see coming unless you put yourself in a bad placement, or if you're playing too recklessly. Play the matchup calm and just pay big attention to his movements. When you get up to about 90%, you should be not trying to get inside his range cause they'll do what it takes to get Dsmash to land. Just shield the move, then reset the playing field.

And yes, I do get hit by it too. However, when I'm paying attention, I can tell when it's gonna happen. It's quick and not truly punishable when shielded for Yoshi. You would rather want to take a grab or have your shield get close to breaking than wanting to die like that all the time.
 

Gindler

Smash Champion
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Orlando (UCF)
I love it when I go to sidestep (sometimes shield) his Bair and he headbutts me instead, DK can be tricky when he wants to be.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Bigfoot used Dsmash maybe 4 times the entire set.
Its really hard to read when they do it discreetly.
 

YoshiIslander77z

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Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
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massachusettes
learn the different bair appoarches before hand or else ull be falling for some tricks he really has only 3 main options when he is coming in the air bair paunch and up air (only if ur above him) but ive seen more headbutt mix ins lately it kinda messes up specially how its a free fsmash or paunch if it hits
 

Shiri

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Messages
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:yoshi: Well, you don't really punish blind spots as much as you take advantage of them.

I don't think DK hits with it just because we have a blind spot. Many characters in this game have blind spots similar to Yoshi's, just in different areas. The main point is that DK players are getting better at using the move, regardless of if we have a blind spot or not.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
The main time Dsmash hit me btw, is when i was recovering , and on landing.
Not just randomly while i was grounded
 

bigman40

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Just another day.
Well, if you leave out that kind of information, then it would keep people from making different dissertations. Include the serious evidence please.
 

Airborne

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
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YO MARVEL Lexington, Kentucky
:yoshi: Well, you don't really punish blind spots as much as you take advantage of them.

I don't think DK hits with it just because we have a blind spot. Many characters in this game have blind spots similar to Yoshi's, just in different areas. The main point is that DK players are getting better at using the move, regardless of if we have a blind spot or not.
well yes, that's kinda what i'm getting at; if we try to punish his landing with a pivot grab, could he counter that with a headbutt? it stops all momentum and would probably sit him nicely above our grab range. =\
 

Bwett

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
791
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Dallas, TX (Land of the Killers)
In this matchup, you can shut down many of DK's options just by relying on egg, pivot grab, and egglay. The bigger the character is, the better egg and egglay work on them. The great thing about egglay for DK is that after they pop out, DK is in the air above us, which is the worst spot that DK can be in vs most if not all characters.

Use eggs to force AD or spotdodges into uair or grab more often. But really, for the most part, as long as you stay outside his range on the ground and be wary when you are above him (smash attacks and uair), you should win.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
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Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

THIS CREW NAME

THESE MEMBERS NAMES

LOL THE MUSIC YES!!!!

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL

"Excuse the music"?

MORE LIKE "NEEDZ MOAR"

GOOD SH*T

Okay about this match:

The Yoshi was doing something that I don't see many other Yoshis do (or even other players of other characters, but specifically Yoshi), which is really abuse the opponent's landing frames. I think his other approaches were pretty telegraphed and kinda simple, but when it came time for DK to land, he rarely did it safely, and it wasn't always taken advantage of with a grab, so he maintained some manner of surprise, especially with down tilt. DK did some okay maneuvering and you can see how even at a not-so-high level of play that the headbutt is nice and easy to sneak in every once in a while, no matter the percentage. I think this was a pretty cool example of stuff both characters can do.
 
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