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A Guide on Range, Disjointed Hitboxes and Priority (Work in Progress)

Atria

Smash Journeyman
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416
Location
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Introduction

Hey everyone. I am writing this guide in the hopes that most people here can understand that range, disjointed hitboxes and priority are 3 completely different things and to clear up any misunderstanding and confusion with these 3 terms. To my amazement a few days ago, I was surprised that most people here thought that these 3 terms meant the same thing or confused the definition of one of these words with another word which I have mentioned in the title above. For starters, they do not mean the same thing. There's a reason why there are 3 words in the first place. This is because they all possess a different meaning to each other. However, they are closely related to each other which is why I guess people often get them mixed up. By reading this guide, hopefully people won't get these terms mixed up as they are pretty important to know. Who knows, you might learn a thing or two about each of these terms? Anyways, let's get on with this shall we?

Range

First of all, what is range? Well, range is how far a character's hitbox can extend outside their hurt box when using an attack. Do not confuse this with a disjointed hitbox as they mean 2 completely different things. I'll explain what a disjointed hitbox is later. With range, it doesn't normally concern projectiles as they are completely different from ranged moves. (I'll explain why later.) Also, not all characters have a set range on their attacks as obviously from playing the game, all of their attacks have various ranges to them. However, there are character's who do have better range on their attacks overall compared to other characters. Mostly characters who wield weapons (Like a sword for example.) are notable for having great range associated with their attacks. Also, the higher overall range a character has on their moves, the easier it is for them to space themselves accordingly in battle.

Well, that's about it on range I think.

Projectile


A projectile is a hitbox which is able to leave the user's hurtbox. Most projectiles follow a linear path while others travel in arcs or can even be controlled by the user. Some can be used instantly while others can be charged to make them stronger. There are even projectiles which have a unique ability to them. However, they all serve an important purpose for those who wield them: To set up an approach, condition your opponent and create an opening when your opponent approaches you which is a pretty useful thing to do in battle as the situation can easily be put into your advantage. Especially against characters who lack a projectile. Another good thing about projectiles is that NONE of them produce hit lag for the user. Even if the opponent is in your face and you fire a projectile, you will not suffer any lag when the projectile lands on your opponent. Strangely enough, there are some odd additions for projectiles in the game like the IC's Blizzard attack and Bowser's and Charizard's Fire breath/Flamethrower attack. This is because they produce hitboxes which are still attached to their hurtboxes. However, they can be reflected and absorbed like normal projectiles and they produce no hitlag when they land on your opponent so these attacks are treated like one.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but projectiles can fall into either the physical or energy category. Energy projectiles are unaffected by gravity (Mario's is the only exception.) while physical projectiles are. (Snake's Nikita and Samus' Missile are the only exceptions.) Therefore, energy based projectiles travel linear paths while physical projectiles tend to travel in arcs. (Unless they are controllable.) Therefore, energy projectiles are a little easier to land against grounded opponents while physical projectiles are easier to land on opponents in the air as the projectile can fall with them and potentially still hit them even when they air dodge. Against characters who possess reflectors however, energy projectiles are a little more disadvantageous to have than physical projectiles because once an energy based projectile is reflected, there's a higher chance that the reflected projectile will come back and hit you compared to a physical one because of the linear path most of them travel in. You can still get hit if a physical projectile is reflected however, you need to be reasonably close to your opponent for that to happen and that depends on the trajectory in which your projectile travels in as well. Also, there are some characters who are only able to absorb energy based projectiles. Therefore, this decreases the list of characters you can spam energy based projectiles on. However, that doesn't mean that your character's energy based projectile is completely nullified against these characters. It just means you have to use them more intellectually and sparingly because characters who possess reflectors or absorbers cannot have their reflector or absorber activated at all times. Although if you spam the projectile or are predictable when using them, then yes, they will absorb it or reflect it right back at you and depending on how far you are from your opponent, you may get hit in the process.

Disjointed Hitbox

A disjointed hitbox is a hitbox or attack which is either not attached to a character's hurtbox or extends far away from a characters hurt box. Again, like with range, character's who wield weapons are notable for possessing this. Other characters who posses this in majority of their moves are Lucario, Olimar, Ness and Lucas. However, there are some characters who are not notable for their range that can still have disjointed hitboxes associated with some of their attacks. Like Pikachu for example, he practically has short range on all of his moves. However, his FSmash and DSmash have disjointed hitboxes to them because the electricity extends outside his body or hurtbox. There are others too, but I'm too lazy to list them all. Just be aware of that however. Also, a common misconception is Snake's U-tilt. Most people think the move has a disjointed hitbox to it. This is not true because disjointed hitboxes can trump this move. This move just has a LOT of range and priority to it. Also, consider the situation where a Lucas uses PK Fire (>B): If Sonic were to punch it, he'd get hurt because the his arm doesn't extend outside his hurtbox. However, if Marth used his FSmash on it, he wouldn't get hurt because the hitbox extends outside his hurt box. That is an example of what a disjointed hitbox is.

Priority

Okay people, priority is something not a lot of people here are familiar with and it is pretty important to know so listen up. Priority is an attack's ability to trump another attack if both yours and your opponents attacks collide with each other at the same time. Usually the more damage an attack does, the better the priority that move has. This isn't the case most of the time however. With Meta Knight for example, consider the situation where he uses his Mach tornado. (Neutral B) The more you press B, the more priority it gains. Also, despite the fact that his attacks don't do a lot of damage, most of his moves still has high priority associated with them.

If you are still unsure about how priority works, consider these situations: If 2 Mario's jab each other at the same time, the attacks cancel each other out and no one gets hurt because they have similar priority to each other. However, if Peach were to use her jab against Ike's FSmash for example, Peach would get hurt because Ike's FSmash has more priority over Peach's jab. Another example is where some characters use their jab to cancel certain projectiles. Like jabs, some projectiles like Lucario's BAS and Pikachu's Thunder Jolt have low priority to them. So when the projectile collides with a characters jab, they cancel each other out as shown in the image below:



Weak projectiles (Like Pikachu's Thunder Jolt for example.) have similar priority to most jabs.

Another thing I should note is that priority only affects grounded characters. So if 2 characters aerial attacks collided with each other at the same time, the attacks won't cancel each other out or even have one of those aerial attacks trumping the other aerial attack based on how much priority both of those moves have. None of that happens at all. Instead, when 2 characters aerial attacks collide with each other at the same time, both characters trade hits with each other regardless of both of those aerial attacks priority. Even if it's 2 Marth's using an Fair or a Meta Knight using an Fair against Kirby's Bair against each other for example, both characters will still trade hits with each other because priority is disregarded when both characters are in the air because of what I stated earlier: priority only affects grounded characters. The only thing that can prevent this from happening is when a characters aerial attack comes out faster than their opponents aerial attack or vice versa. If a character uses an aerial attack against a grounded character, then yes, priority will apply.

One final point about priority is that if a character has high priority associated with most of their attacks, the easier it is for them to approach characters because they have the ability to trump almost any move their opponent uses on them. Therefore, the character who has lower priority overall have to be more cautious in how they approach and what moves they can use against their opponent because they don't have many moves that they can just throw out at their opponent and hope that it'll hit them otherwise they'll easily get out prioritized by an attack which has higher priority to it.


Well, that's it for my guide for now. Hopefully I've cleared up any kind of misunderstanding people may have had originally on range, priority and disjointed hitboxes. If you still have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I'll answer them to the best of my ability. Also, if you think I'm incorrect on something or if I'm missing something, let me know and I'll change or add information if you have proof to back it up. Also, this guide isn't 100% complete yet as I'm still yet to clean it up and add more stuff to it so keep an eye out on this guide as I might add more stuff to it if I have time to do so. ;)
 

LuLLo

Smash Ace
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Nice guide, these aspects are pretty well known by the people, but it's great for beginners to get an understanding of how Smash works and for the more expert players to refresh their memory about the fundamentals of playing.
One thing I didn't know (never thought about it actually) was that aerial attacks always trade hits, no matter what situation.
 

ph00tbag

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Separating range from disjointed hitboxes like you do doesn't do the topic justice. Range is not what you describe it as. For one thing, if it were, projectiles would not contribute to range. Range is actually completely different; it is simply how far away from the hurtbox a character can hit with a given move. Range does not apply to the character, but to their moves. Disjointed hitboxes are not totally separated from that, either. In fact, disjointed hitboxes contribute to range. For instance, the spark at the end of Samus' zair is a disjointed hitbox, but since it extends a long way away from Samus, the move has massive range.

I applaud the effort, but you need to work on your definitions a bit.
 

Crystanium

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Wow, I wasn't aware that Meta Knight had such excellent range. I don't really think you can seperate range from a disjointed hitbox. Marth's Falchion is disjointed, but it gives him range.

For one thing, if it were, projectiles would not contribute to range. Range is actually completely different; it is simply how far away from the hurtbox a character can hit with a given move. Range does not apply to the character, but to their moves.
So, characters with projectile attacks should be higher up in range? I'm just wanting to see if I'm understanding you correctly.
 

XienZo

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Snake's u-tilt is indeed disjointed; disjointed moves can still trump any other disjointed moves anyway. You can see if an attack is disjointed by attacking a bomb or anything else that has a hurtbox and a hitbox; if you can hit it without getting hit, it is obviously disjointed.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
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Your definitions about disjointed hitboxes and range are a little off. Espicially your range definition. ph00tbag has the more correct explanation.

And that list is absolute trash. DK outranges Marth by a small margin, so he obviously can't be so far down. And MK doesn't have such amazing range, just amazing disjointed hitboxes.

EDIT: Nevertheless, good post. Be proud of it. It really only has those two flaws listed above.
 

ph00tbag

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So, characters with projectile attacks should be higher up in range? I'm just wanting to see if I'm understanding you correctly.
Not quite. I'm saying a character does not inherently possess range. Only moves have range, and if you are going to say that a character has "long range," you are using synecdoche; the whole is used to mean a part. That is to say, you are using the character to mean their moves.
 

Atria

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Separating range from disjointed hitboxes like you do doesn't do the topic justice. Range is not what you describe it as. For one thing, if it were, projectiles would not contribute to range.
I thought that at first for projectiles, but I thought a lot of people would complain and tell me: 'How is that not range?' But since I see someone that agreed with my initial thoughts that this doesn't normally concern projectiles, I'll change it. I'll add a section for projectiles momentarily. :)

Range is actually completely different; it is simply how far away from the hurtbox a character can hit with a given move. Range does not apply to the character, but to their moves.
Range

First of all, what is range? Well, range is how far a character's hitbox can extend outside their hurt box when using an attack. Do not confuse this with a disjointed hitbox as they mean 2 completely different things. I'll explain what a disjointed hitbox is later. I'm pretty sure everyone knows this, but projectiles have the greatest range in the game following attacks. Also, not all characters have a set range on their attacks as obviously from playing the game, all of their attacks have various ranges to them. However, there are character's who do have better range on their attacks overall compared to other characters. Mostly characters who wield weapons (Like a sword for example.) are notable for having great range associated with their attacks. Also, the higher overall range a character has on their moves, the easier it is for them to space themselves accordingly in battle.
I thought I implied that... >_> Or are you just simply restating that for the fact that range only concerns moves where an attacks extends outside the characters hurtbox and not with projectiles? IF that was the case, then ignore this statement. Which I have a feeling that may be the case.

Disjointed hitboxes are not totally separated from that, either. In fact, disjointed hitboxes contribute to range. For instance, the spark at the end of Samus' zair is a disjointed hitbox, but since it extends a long way away from Samus, the move has massive range.

I applaud the effort, but you need to work on your definitions a bit.
Okay, maybe I should elaborate on this section a bit more. Thanks for the advice. :) I guess I should also mention that range is slightly related to Disjointed hitboxes in some way.

@Everyone who is complaining about my list: Sorry, I made that list at like, 2 in the morning lol. So I got a bit lazy rearranging everyone. Also, I only JUST realized that I forgot to add Yoshi. (Yoshi mains are gonna kill me.)
 

Dantarion

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Priority=Disjointedness.

The more the range of an attacks hitbox extends away from the characters hurtbox, the greater chance it will have of clanking with other moves instead of trading hits
 

gm jack

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Why is Zelda so far down the range list? Her Fsmash has pretty big range with it's disjointed hitbox.

Why range =/= disjointed, they are often linked.
 

ph00tbag

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I thought I implied that... >_> Or are you just simply restating that for the fact that range only concerns moves where an attacks extends outside the characters hurtbox and not with projectiles? IF that was the case, then ignore this statement. Which I have a feeling that may be the case.
Well, for one thing, when you say a given character's hitbox, from a development perspective, you're essentially referring to their hurtbox, because a character does not have a hitbox that does damage. Their moves do. I'm saying that range includes projectiles, disjointed hitboxes, extended hitboxes, even dropped hitboxes. Range answers the question, "how far can I be from my opponent and still hit them with this move?"

I suppose you could say that a given character has "range" in the sense of the aggregate amount of space they can conceivably cover, but that would be misleading, since Falco would be on top due to his lasers, even though range is a whole lot more complicated than that.
 

XienZo

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I thought that the difference between range and disjointed-ness is that Ivysaur's ftilt is better disjointed , but his Fsmash has better range.
 

Browny

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according to smashwiki, snake is high tier because of tactics such as using the missile as an edgeguarding tool and having an incredibly powerful forward smash
 

Bellioes

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lol at djbrowny
But I think when he says range, he means more their smash or tilt with the furthest range. I dont believe hes taking aerials or specials into account. Hence why Falco isnt on top and other characters with awesome aerials are lower. But I still cant figure out why Ness/Lucas are higher than some characters (how are they on par with Marth and higher than G&W)
But I liked your definitions. They seemed real clear to me :ohwell:
 

Xiahou Dun

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Any range list is and always will be inaccurate because you can't measure "general range" sure most of Marth's attacks have more range then almost all of Samus' but her Zair outranges him by miles and she could just spam it against him all day now who has mroe range? Many short ranged characters have one really long ranged move and you can't really decide who wins. The person with the single most long ranged move or the person who has the overalll moveset more ranged. Zero Suit Samus is near the bottom but Up Smash Forward B and Up B have huge range.
 

Atria

Smash Journeyman
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Wow, you guys are pretty critical... I found that everything here besides the list seemed to be correct. I do want to know what his interpretation in "range" is.
Well, my interpretation of range is simply how far an attacks's hitbox extends when a character uses an attack. This applies for both physical attacks and projectiles.

Priority=Disjointedness.

The more range an attacks hitbox extends away from the characters hurtbox, the greater chance it will have of clanking with other moves instead of trading hits
With your first statement, yes the amount of priority on a character's attack is equal throughout. The amount of priority remains the same throughout the whole range/animation of the attack, even the disjointed hitboxes have the same amount of priority as it's part of the attack. However, some attacks that have 2 different kinds of hitboxes I think (Moves that generally weaken over time. Like Lucario's Nair for example.) vary in priority because Lucario's Nair gets weaker over time so I think the priority decreases too. (IDK, I can't test this since I'm Wii-less ATM...)

With your second statement, it's true to some extent however, it depends on the priority value of the other character's attack. If it's more, the attack will go through the other and may even hurt the opponent depending on whether the attack had a disjointed hitbox or not. It can occur vice versa as well where you will get hit instead. If your hitbox is disjointed however, you won't get hurt. If it's the same, they will cancel each other out with a 'clank'. Characters only trade hits with each other when they are both in the air and 2 aerial attacks collide with each other at the same time.

Well, for one thing, when you say a given character's hitbox, from a development perspective, you're essentially referring to their hurtbox, because a character does not have a hitbox that does damage. Their moves do. I'm saying that range includes projectiles, disjointed hitboxes, extended hitboxes, even dropped hitboxes. Range answers the question, "how far can I be from my opponent and still hit them with this move?"

I suppose you could say that a given character has "range" in the sense of the aggregate amount of space they can conceivably cover, but that would be misleading, since Falco would be on top due to his lasers, even though range is a whole lot more complicated than that.
Yeah that's true. I do think that section needs a little more work that what I've put in it so far because I do think that range is quite a complicated concept because it can branch into many things. Also, that list is just a rough guess on every characters overall range. Although, getting that list accurate would be impossible because there is no known method you can use to accurately measure range. I'm thinking about taking that list out too cause I'm starting to think that it's a bit unnecessary to have in there because of such things like Falco's laser which you stated which can affect the results dramatically which is way out of my league considering the fact that I don't have my Wii to test these things and come to an accurate conclusion. :p

I thought that the difference between range and disjointed-ness is that Ivysaur's ftilt is better disjointed , but his Fsmash has better range.
You got it correct that Ivysaur's FSmash has good range to it. However, his F-tilt has good range and it has a disjointed hitbox to it too.

lol at djbrowny
But I think when he says range, he means more their smash or tilt with the furthest range. I dont believe hes taking aerials or specials into account. Hence why Falco isnt on top and other characters with awesome aerials are lower. But I still cant figure out why Ness/Lucas are higher than some characters (how are they on par with Marth and higher than G&W)
But I liked your definitions. They seemed real clear to me :ohwell:
You've got the general idea on what I mean about range as you correctly state that it's how far an attack's hitbox goes when a move is executed. However, I'm also including aerials and specials as well. Projectiles can be included too if you wish because they are fairly large ranged moves. Like I said earlier, I NEED to elaborate + work on that section more and add more stuff to it than what I have down ATM. Anyway, I'm starting to think that list I put up is baloney and that I should get rid of it as there is no way anyone can accurately measure range in this game.

Also, Lucas and Ness were ranked high originally because a lot of their moves have disjointed hitboxes to them. Although, both lists are trash anyways lol.

Any range list is and always will be inaccurate because you can't measure "general range" sure most of Marth's attacks have more range then almost all of Samus' but her Zair outranges him by miles and she could just spam it against him all day now who has mroe range? Many short ranged characters have one really long ranged move and you can't really decide who wins. The person with the single most long ranged move or the person who has the overalll moveset more ranged. Zero Suit Samus is near the bottom but Up Smash Forward B and Up B have huge range.
True, that list only refers to overall range for each character and it is mostly a rough guess because it's hard to get it to be accurate because there is no sure fire way to measure the range of each character's attack accurately. It could be possible for Samus to spam Zair all day against Marth as it is the LONGEST ranged move in the game. Also it has a disjointed hitbox to boot at the end of the grapple beam.

However in reality, (In the game I should say.) Marth has ways to get around it. He can either Air dodge, power shield, shield it ordinarily etc. until he closes in on Samus because he can't deal with Samus' Zair at maximum range because none of his moves out range it. Once he closes in however, Samus is in trouble because most of his moves are fairly quick compared to Samus'. However, if Marth spaces himself correctly against Samus, Samus would be at a major disadvantage then because of the before mentioned speed of his attacks and the fact that overall, he has more range than Samus because she doesn't have many moves which can out range Marth at his maximum tipper range. When she is in that situation, the best option for her would be to move as far away from Marth as possible and spam her projectiles against him because Marth can't do anything but shield against them. Once he gets past that and approaches her slightly, Samus can use her Zair because again, it's the longest ranged move in the game and the move is practically lag less and it is safe to use even if Marth shields. However, when Marth manages to space himself at tipper range again, the process repeats itself. (Well, from my experience anyway.)

There are characters who do have bad range overall who have been known to have some long ranged moves like Squirlte for example. His USmash has fairly good range to it. However, the rest of his moves are fairly small in range so overall, he has low ranged moves. There are other characters too but I'm too lazy to give any more examples ATM. :p


A section on projectiles has been added BTW. Also, more pictures shall be added soon. :)
 

Xiahou Dun

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It could be possible for Samus to spam Zair all day against Marth as it is the LONGEST ranged move in the game. Also it has a disjointed hitbox to boot at the end of the grapple beam.

However in reality, (In the game I should say.) Marth has ways to get around it. He can either Air dodge, power shield, shield it ordinarily etc. until he closes in on Samus because he can't deal with Samus' Zair at maximum range because none of his moves out range it. Once he closes in however, Samus is in trouble because most of his moves are fairly quick compared to Samus'. However, if Marth spaces himself correctly against Samus, Samus would be at a major disadvantage then because of the before mentioned speed of his attacks and the fact that overall, he has more range than Samus because she doesn't have many moves which can out range Marth at his maximum tipper range. When she is in that situation, the best option for her would be to move as far away from Marth as possible and spam her projectiles against him because Marth can't do anything but shield against them. Once he gets past that and approaches her slightly, Samus can use her Zair because again, it's the longest ranged move in the game and the move is practically lag less and it is safe to use even if Marth shields. However, when Marth manages to space himself at tipper range again, the process repeats itself. (Well, from my experience anyway.)
You've got it completely wrong. I'm not saying this is a strategy which will make her WIN.

I'm just saying in this situation Samus has more range...That's all there is to it.
 

Atria

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Yeah I know, but I'm just saying there are times when Marth can out range her too. I probably got carried away and went into too much detail like I normally do lol.
 

Xiahou Dun

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No there aren't. She always outranges him with Zair. He can just get insde that range and smack her around. Not outrange her.
 

Moozle

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Thank you for explaining disjointed hitboxes...I've always been a it confused by the term. I liked how you used the example with Marth's Fsmash
 

Pierce7d

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Hmm, not bad for a journeyman, but as many before me have said, you need to clean up a little. Let me give you a hand.

Hitbox - An area that will deal damage to an opponent if it collides with their hurtbox - generally represented by some manner of graphic. For example, when I use Mario's Bair, the hitbox is his legs, and if the opponent's hurtbox enters the area where his legs are, they will take damage. Most moves produce hitboxes.

Hurtbox - The area where a character/player will take damage if it collides with a hitbox. This is generally represented by the character sprite, but not all of the sprite is necessarily the hurtbox.

Range - This is a very general term, but it can be summed up by saying the amount of distance an attack can reach your opponent from where you use it.

Disjointedness - An attack is disjointed if the hitbox is seperate from the character's hurtbox. I like Pikachu's Fsmash for this example, because people usually get confused with weapon examples. If you try and connect an attack on Pikachu's electric ball, you will not damage Pikachu. This is because the ball is a disjointed hitbox. Unlike a projectile though, Pikachu will still suffer hitlag if it connects with a hurtbox/shield. All of Marth's attacks are disjointed. Most of MK's attacks are as well, but hit Dash attack is not. Most characters wielding weapons have disjointed attacks. It wouldn't make sense for Marth or Ike to take damage if you hit their sword, does it?

NOTE: Keep in mind that not every character with a weapon has amazing range. Toon Link's range is mediocre for a weapon wielding character. DK and Snake have no weapons, but have amazing range. DK doesn't have any disjointed hitboxes, but Snake has Utilt and Ftilt (hit two is definitely disjointed).

Priority - Priority has little to do with any of the above. Priority merely determines what happens when two hitboxes collide. Naturally, when a hitbox collides with a hurtbox, the player takes damage, but when two hitboxes collide, what happens? Attacks with relatively higher priority will destroy hitboxes with much less priority (hence, one attack will simple go through another, and hit the opponent). Attacks with similar priority will clash, and both hitboxes will get destroyed. I read once long ago that a move will out-prioritize another move, if it deals 8% more damage, but I'm not sure how true this is (in fact, I severely doubt this is the case). Aerial moves have priority as well, but hitboxes thrown from the air do not interfere with each other (projectiles excluded). Projectile priority is treated pretty similarly to any other attack.


Transcended Priority - Whenever I'm talking about priority, I always feel the need to mention transcended priority in the lesson, because it's pretty important to be able to identify it. Attacks with transcended priority do not interact with other hitboxes. Attacks with transcended priority will always either trade with the opponent, miss completely, or beat out the opponent due to speed. It will never clash with another attack (which reminds me, I could've sworn I saw my DB3 clash with an attack the other day, gotta talk to Marth's about it). Some examples of attacks with transcended priority include Marth's Dancing Blade and ShieldBreaker, I THINK most Zairs, Dedede's mecha-hammer, Lucas' DownB (I think), and Mario's Cape (Once again, I think) all have transcended priority. It's important to note that most of MK's attacks are transcended. The exceptions are his Glide attack, dash attack, and Tornado (which really just has unnecessarily high priority). I'm not entirely sure of downB. This is important to remember because it means MK will not clash with you most of the time, and his moves are very fast, so you need to figure out a different way of dealing with him. Keep in mind that moves with transcended priority cannot fan projectiles, since the hitboxes will not interact.

Projectile-I liked your standard definition for projectiles as a hitbox that separates itself from a character, and causes the user to suffer no hitlag. However, there are more types of projectiles than just physical and energy, and your extra generalizations where not entirely accurate. I would just stick to your basic definition.
 

Irsic

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If Snake's utilt wasn't disjointed, you would be able to trade hits with it. I've never traded a hit with hit with his utilt before.

Range should catagorize projectiles, some characters have a lot of long range camping games where some characters don't have projectiles at all....giving them less range.
 

Pierce7d

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Dec 20, 2006
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If Snake's utilt wasn't disjointed, you would be able to trade hits with it. I've never traded a hit with hit with his utilt before.

Range should catagorize projectiles, some characters have a lot of long range camping games where some characters don't have projectiles at all....giving them less range.
I don't think Snake's Utilt is transcended. I'm pretty sure you can still trade with it, but I could be mistaken. If I remember, I'll check later. It's definitely disjointed though.

Most times, people don't really speak of projectiles when discussing range, because it's implied that a projectile attack will out-range your opponent, and hence it detracts from the meaning of what you're trying to say. If I were to say, Toon Link out-ranges DK, most people would disagree because DK has more physical range by Toon Link. It's very obvious that Toon Link can hit DK from farther away with a projectile.
 

fkacyan

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You can trade with Snake's uptilt. I do it when I actually manage to time an MK glide attack against it, or sometimes randomly with one of ZSS's jabs or tilts.
 

XienZo

Smash Lord
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Trade or clash? Glide attack is one of MK's two non-transcended A attacks.
 

Pierce7d

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Trading doesn't happen when two ground hitboxes meet. Transcended hitboxes don't count obviously.

Of course, you can just simply out-prioritize Snake's Utilt even it it's disjointed. If Ike throws Fsmash, and Snake tries to clash with Utilt, Snake is getting hit, lol.
 

XienZo

Smash Lord
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Trading doesn't happen when two ground hitboxes meet. Transcended hitboxes don't count obviously.

Of course, you can just simply out-prioritize Snake's Utilt even it it's disjointed. If Ike throws Fsmash, and Snake tries to clash with Utilt, Snake is getting hit, lol.
I think Ike's Fsmash still isn't strong enough to outprioritize it.

I think it was in fact the 10% difference that determines if you clash or not.
 

Pierce7d

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I think Ike's Fsmash still isn't strong enough to outprioritize it.

I think it was in fact the 10% difference that determines if you clash or not.
I dunno, but I wouldn't bet money on Snake blocking fsmash with utilt, lol.

For the sake of accurate example, let's assume I was referring to a full charged fsmash.
 
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