"Samus+ aka Why wasn't the Phazon Suit in vBrawl?" Guide and Discussion Thread *WIP*

Videos

JCeasar- Agressive with little projectile camping.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZvQcNZgTd8&feature=channel_page
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJwySDfHfM0&feature=channel_page

Meltingbox- Agressive with moderate projectile camping.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DQT5wBlps
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfX7pPV9LCQ

NinjaLink- Varying style in different matches.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5u5wdgcwdA&feature=channel_page
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHau3BEDRwA&feature=channel_page

vBrawl->Brawl+ Changes to Samus

Samus+ received huge buffs, and obviously the most significant is the ability to texture hack the phazon suit into the game. It's easily in broken tier.

Knockback
-Fsmash: growth 90 from 100; base 56 from 20
-Nair (first hit): growth to 120 from 80; base 22 from 10
-Super Missile: growth 80 from 65; base 40 from 40; damage 15 from 10; angle 40 from 55
-Charge Shot: growth 70 from 56; base 32 from 31

Frame Speed
-Homing Missile: after frame 20 is 2x faster
-Super Missile: after frame 25 is 2x faster
-Tether Grab: 1.6x wind-down

Jump Height and Gravity Settings
-Short Hop: 0.900
-Full Hop: 1.025
-Fast Fall Speed: 1.300
-Down Gravity: 1.175
-Gravity: 1.000

General Strengths
Projectiles
Samus' buffs led to among the best, if not the best, projectile games in brawl+. The charge shot and super missile both recieved kockback buffs making them superb killers. Homing missiles retain their amazing homing properties from brawl, with the added danger of the comboable hitstun and two other killer projectiles. To round off this arsenal, her zair is among the longest range and largest disjointed hitbox moves in the game.

All of her except the charge shot auto cancel, and travel at different speeds. The different speeds of each move combined with the low lag can potentially allow for the most solid wall in the game, with projectiles leyered so if the first is dodged, the next will hit in the end lag of the dodge, or in the hitstun if the first connects. I'll go into more detail on that subject in the Projectile Walling section.

Approaching
Projectiles
Homing missiles and Zair are both excellent approach tools. They are long range and require almost no committment, making them the safest approach options available. Use the two to try to force a mistake or predict their reaction, and then often combine with an aerial to finish the approach.

Aerials
Aerials can be used to approach against characters with bad or very short range grabs like Samus, or if you land behind the opponent. Fair is my personal preference for the aerial used in the former situation, while dair is often when landing behind, though bair and uair could be used as well.
If you hit, each aerial will lead to a very different situation. Dair when landing behind will put the opponent in the air, available for comboing. Fair will leave the opponent standing right in front of you, and you would want to use a quick move, such as jab or dtilt, or punish their reaction if you know what it will be.

Punishing Dodges


General Weaknesses
Mid-Close Range


Above Her
Samus lacks a decisive gtfo attack for characters above her. None of her projectiles travel upward a significant amount, and her upward attacks are all mediocre. The disadvantage when below the other character isn't an immediately recognized, nor often exploited weakness, but it is difficult to deal with against certain characters and an opponent who knows how to abuse it. Samus has several options for dealing with the situation.

The screw attack and uair are both quick, but easy to DI out of. Because of that both options become very unsafe against a knowledgable opponent. Ignoring SDI momentarily, screw attack also has very low knockback at low percentages, so they can recover and punish it before you touch the ground. This makes it a bad option at low percentages. At higher percents, it again becomes a very bad option because if you miss, the helpless state would almost certainly be punished by a stock loss, so screw attack is limited to usability at mid percents, though it is still risky.

If on the ground, there are a few more options, but still none of them are superb. You can attempt to run under them and reset your projectile game from the other side of the stage, and against characters with low aerial speed this can work depending on their position, though don't count on it working often. Against some characters samus could shield and punish with an oos nair, though it becomes less viable against characters that can camp with multiple jumps, like meta knight.

Another safer option is to stand diagonally under a platform to cover the weakness, but that is obviously stage dependent.

Edge Game & Recovery

Projectile Game
Walls

Pressure

COMBOS!11!!!1
Dair
Most dair combos are fairly obvious and I currently will not talk about most of them. However, a few are particularly useful.
Between ~40% and 100%, depending on character, a charge shot will be guaranteed. If you are near the edge, this is especially useful as full charge shot begins to kill around 70%. Often, they will DI towards the center of the stage in this situation, but you can jump to the inside, then reverse the charge shot to remedy this. Can be a very low percent kill.

Super Missile
The Super Missile (SM) in b+ is a very strong and spammable projectile, killing at around 90% near the ledge depending on character and DI. So why is this in the combo's section, you ask? At higher percents, various moves start to combo into a SM.
If Samus shoots one so it will travel just over the top of the opponent and she lands relatively near the opponent after the shot, she can follow up with a dtilt, ftilt, fsmash, or dash attack. The low initial speed of a SM gives her time to use any of those four (there are likely more that work), and the knockback will hit the opponent into the SM. Cool huh?
Of course, it only works if the ground attack hits, so if they shield, then don't bother with this combo. Use the situation to your advantage in some other way, such as grabbing or resetting your projectile wall.

Homing Missile
These small hits can set up for nearly anything, provided you are in the right postition. This is especially use when edge guarding or layering projectiles.

Charge shot


Combo List
-To be added at a later date



Matchup Discussion/Summaries
-To Be added at a later date


**Feel free to suggest other topics, talk about specific matchups, discuss strengths, etc. This is, in addition to a guide, a general Samus+ discussion thread.**

I've never really had a problem with good dairs. Just jump and uair, or up-B (I prefer uair). Sure, they can beat those options on paper, but it's so fast they would have to have wicked good timing to hit you out.

You know what I like about Samus+? In Melee, it was all about the super missiles. In vBrawl, it was all about the homing missiles. In Brawl+, you get to choose! They both have uses and one isn't obviously superior to the other.

JCaesar007 said:

I've never really had a problem with good dairs. Just jump and uair, or up-B (I prefer uair). Sure, they can beat those options on paper, but it's so fast they would have to have wicked good timing to hit you out.

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Uair pretty consistantly gets di'ed, then punished for me, even though it's quick enough to hit. The oos options are rather risky with the added shield stun, and it's completely useless to try to shieldgrab after they land because of the slow startup of Samus' grab. The only solid option I've found is standing diagonally under platforms on certain stages, or preventing them from getting over me with full hop Zairs. Any other ideas?

JCaesar007 said:

You know what I like about Samus+? In Melee, it was all about the super missiles. In vBrawl, it was all about the homing missiles. In Brawl+, you get to choose! They both have uses and one isn't obviously superior to the other.

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Absolutely! The different mixups with the spacing of homing/super missiles and zair and charge shots really makes Samus+'s projctile game a lot more dangerous and difficult to get past than it was in either brawl or melee. You can change the order and timing to stuff just about any approach method, and it's especially awesome against characters who only really have one safe approach.

Samus in brawl+ is just a **** god. Soooo many missiles and zairs being thrown around. It's like she has a huge wall you have to fight through just to get to her.

I just started using her recently, she's fun, definitely reminds me of my Melee days with Samus. I love her missile game now, so much better than Melee (even though missile cancel isn't as good).

Dair is so sexy now.

Is it possible to Double Smash Missiles in a full hop?

And Samus is definitely better now but I still miss my CC Dsmash.

Iamthemovie said:

Is it possible to Double Smash Missiles in a full hop?

And Samus is definitely better now but I still miss my CC Dsmash.

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Yes, double smash missiles, double homing missiles, or any combination of her projectiles are possible in a full hop.


What do you mean by you miss cc dsmash? She can do it in b+, unless you mean that dsmash was better in melee or something.

Edit- Woops I was thinking of a dash cancel

cman said:

What do you mean by you miss cc dsmash? She can do it in b+, unless you mean that dsmash was better in melee or something.

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Hmm? I thought there was no crouch-canceling in Brawl+. If they managed to put it in, that completely changes everything and makes Samus+ even better. CCing was such an important part of her game in Melee.

It's just me, but I have issues comboing with her. It just seems like they fall just barely outside her reach.
I blame the C-stick fastfall in tumble. I kinda hurts her combo ability in my opinion.
But again, it's probably just me.

Samus has become quite a character with the KO buffs she received. She can combo pretty well, can lay decent pressure down with projectiles, and is good at keeping characters down on their backs (she can keep me on my back RAWR). Z-air sets up to some wonderful techchases with D-air or charge shot. Her jab can also do the same thing.

She has a lot of trouble dealing with aerial approaches and faster projectile spam. Her U-smash has been sped up in a test set (not public atm). The decrease in hitlag screwed the move up so the speed up was designed to make it so all the hits can connect but it helps fight off aerial approaches.

Samus also has a pretty pro spot-dodge and with a buffed F-smash it can make for a pretty good KO move. The low hit lag and fast speed make it very tough to DI properly. Overall Samus has become quite a powerhouse in Brawl+ but she still has some unfortunate flaws that hold her back.

Homing -> Super Missile is my favorite thing to do, because the homing makes jumping a real pain for your opponent, but the Super forces them to jump. Samus has always been about brickwalling and then punishing long enough to get away and start spamming again since Melee. In Brawl+, she's better at it than in any other game. I don't really think you should ever need to properly engage your opponent, which means Samus will be pissing a lot of people off, to the Samus player's delight.

But Samus is still a threat up close, and has a few combos that will put the hurt on anyone who approaches blindly. Dair is really good for tech chases, and her long legs and exquisite air control mean that you can jump one way to bait movement in the opposite direction, then punish with a bair. of course, her Screw Attack is still excellent for punishing aerials on shield.

shffld nairs can WOP for a little while now at mid percents. Try it out, its very fun.

Also, I got some weird momentum boost by using a bomb in the air then fair afterwards. It wasn't a bomb jump because the bomb hadn't exploded, but I kinda got boosted while using the fair. It wasn't that much, like a quarter of how far ROBs sideB takes him now

These changes are amazing! I played a bit with her yesterday. I would like to see some buffs to her downB. Currently, it's a pretty awful move mostly because it's slow, leaves you vulnerable if you bounce off of it, doesn't really lead to anything when it connects.

I feel there are many ways to improve this move. One is implementing the old Melee mechanics which would have it explode on contact and having Samus able to act after bouncing off of it. If these doesn't seem reasonable the bomb could always get some extra benefits to make up for it not exploding on contact. Some ideas would be adding a trip modifier to it or having it do extra shield damage.

I'd like to hear what other people think about her down B and what improvements (if any) it should have.

Rohins said:

These changes are amazing! I played a bit with her yesterday. I would like to see some buffs to her downB. Currently, it's a pretty awful move mostly because it's slow, leaves you vulnerable if you bounce off of it, doesn't really lead to anything when it connects.

I feel there are many ways to improve this move. One is implementing the old Melee mechanics which would have it explode on contact and having Samus able to act after bouncing off of it. If these doesn't seem reasonable the bomb could always get some extra benefits to make up for it not exploding on contact. Some ideas would be adding a trip modifier to it or having it do extra shield damage.

I'd like to hear what other people think about her down B and what improvements (if any) it should have.

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We have plans for Down B which we cannot do yet but, please do not use these threads for buff/nerf discussions or anything of the like.

Just discuss what she has right now please.

I apologize that it is taking me so long to write the guide, but while I finish, let's start discussing some matchups. I forsee that characters with good, quick mid/close range zoning games with be the most trouble for Samus to deal with, and since he seems to still be top, a good place to start is:

Metaknight

Metaknight is good at covering two of samus' trouble zones, at mid/close range (is there a shorter word for that?) and above her. However, he lacks any special means to deal with her long range zoning, and has a slow air speed, which may turn this match up into whether or not samus can keep him out. Go!

I_Am_Plum said:

I'm no Samus player, but I did mess with her (and Link) a lot today.

As far as Meta Knight went, if he stayed close to the ground then I was consistently able to keep him out.
Meta Knight still gave me problems because he has the ability to approach from high up though. Unfortunately for Samus, her zoning game is so linear with the exception of the homing missile. And the homing missile is slow enough where he can just use one of his jumps to hop over it with no problems.
Then he can just come down and Dair or whatever because Samus has poor options above her.
I basically tossed out missiles and charge shots to force him to jump or dodge and if he jumped I forced him back down with Zair or a homing missile was hopefully coming up in the wall of projectiles to hit him.
As soon as he got through the wall though then I was eating half a stock until I could readjust.

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I don't have much MK experience with samus, but that's what I guessed would happen. The best solution to the overhead approach I can think of is to counterpick a stage with platform, but that isn't useable in every match obviously.

Problem moves that we are going to have to work around are going to be his dair, fair, possibly ftilt and dtilt. For the dair, does an upsmash outrange it (nevermind for now that upsmash is easy to di)?

I played some more b+ 4.0 last Friday. I just wanted to say well spaced jab cancels work well for shield pressure. I haven't messed with it much vs say Marth or Dedede who I don't think you can actually jab in front of with being outside their grab range (outside of grapples), so I can't say how viable it is vs them.

this sounds incredible... love Samus

Alright I have been playing tons with samus recently and the more I play with her, the more confused I get with how to play her. Some matches I ignore missiles completely and only use zair/ charge shots/ and Dtilts for close quarters. Other times I ignore zair and just set ups walls with mixed up missiles and charge shots. And sometimes Ill just keep close with uair, jab cancel stuff, and dair set ups, with some zairs for approaching.

All three playstyles seem to work equally well but once I start the match I can't change styles, its like Im playing Diablo II again and can't decide what paladin to make (hammerdin ftw, btw). I guess the best answer would be to make it matchup dependent, or to just play a different style each stock to never let your opponent get comfortable. It's difficult(almost impossible) to combine all three styles perfectly because they each require a different mindset I feel, so going back and forth can just be awkward and less effective.

Do any other b+ samus players know what I'm talking about here? I'm actually thinking of focusing on Samus and making her my official B+ main at this point, mainly because I feel she is one of the few complete characters in the game right now (barring any possible downB changes)


And here are some playing tips I have for people messing around with Samus:

One great projectile wall I've found is fullhop homing > autocancel super (timing is a little tight) > charge shot (this will literally travel side by side with the super missle)

This wall, with proper timing, can actually all hit at the same time (45 dmg!) And can be followed up with a zair, grab if they actually shield the entire thing. The charge shot can also be delayed a little to punish any dodges/rolls, while still making a great wall.

One final thing that is really fun and occasionally effective is autocancel super missile > dash. Samus will run right behind the super missile for a while, allowing for some great dc moves (or grab) once you reach your opponent. Mainly its just cool, like creating a little shield of pain in front of you.

P.S. Samus's grab sucks, or at least I haven't found much use for it yet. Dthrow can lead to stuff at zero percent, but thats about it. Her pummel is good at high percents I guess. Any thoughts on that?

Whew, my longest post ever.

Rohins said:

I played some more b+ 4.0 last Friday. I just wanted to say well spaced jab cancels work well for shield pressure. I haven't messed with it much vs say Marth or Dedede who I don't think you can actually jab in front of with being outside their grab range (outside of grapples), so I can't say how viable it is vs them.

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That's interesting. What do you jab cancel into? Ftilt? A smash? Another jab?

luvs2pluck said:

Alright I have been playing tons with samus recently and the more I play with her, the more confused I get with how to play her. Some matches I ignore missiles completely and only use zair/ charge shots/ and Dtilts for close quarters. Other times I ignore zair and just set ups walls with mixed up missiles and charge shots. And sometimes Ill just keep close with uair, jab cancel stuff, and dair set ups, with some zairs for approaching. All three playstyles seem to work equally well but once I start the match I can't change styles, its like Im playing Diablo II again and can't decide what paladin to make (hammerdin ftw, btw). I guess the best answer would be to make it matchup dependent, or to just play a different style each stock to never let your opponent get comfortable. It's difficult(almost impossible) to combine all three styles perfectly because they each require a different mindset I feel, so going back and forth can just be awkward and less effective.

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I completely agree with that. I think it is even more so an issue in her offstage game. You can just harrass with projectiles, shoot some homing missiles and chase with a dair, shoot homing missiles so they line up in a vertical wall and force the opponent to go down a substancial amount before they can try to recover (which is actually one of my favorites to do), you can chase with zairs, or you just edge hog (and even then you have a choice between tether hogging and regular edge hogging). Her entire game is really deep.

luvs2pluck said:

Do any other b+ samus players know what I'm talking about here? I'm actually thinking of focusing on Samus and making her my official B+ main at this point, mainly because I feel she is one of the few complete characters in the game right now (barring any possible downB changes)

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Please do! There aren't too many, and I've been having to figure out all the information I've been putting in the guide. I would love to have another main to help out.

luvs2pluck said:

And here are some playing tips I have for people messing around with Samus:

One great projectile wall I've found is fullhop homing > autocancel super (timing is a little tight) > charge shot (this will literally travel side by side with the super missle)

This wall, with proper timing, can actually all hit at the same time (45 dmg!) And can be followed up with a zair, grab if they actually shield the entire thing. The charge shot can also be delayed a little to punish any dodges/rolls, while still making a great wall.

One final thing that is really fun and occasionally effective is autocancel super missile > dash. Samus will run right behind the super missile for a while, allowing for some great dc moves (or grab) once you reach your opponent. Mainly its just cool, like creating a little shield of pain in front of you.

Click to expand...

I have found the wall all hitting at once. It's pretty neat, but i wouldn't really recommend it in a game, as it can be dodged and then your charge shot is gone. I like to throw them in layers so if they dodge they will get hit by the third hit anyway, and if they get hit, they will get hit by the other two as well. Their only real option is to shield, and the three hits do a massive amount of shield damage.

Alternatively, you could just time the homing and super missiles to reach the opponent at the same time, and have a zair or other waiting if they dodge.

luvs2pluck said:

P.S. Samus's grab sucks, or at least I haven't found much use for it yet. Dthrow can lead to stuff at zero percent, but thats about it. Her pummel is good at high percents I guess. Any thoughts on that?

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I agree here. It borders on useless. It can be used to punish airdodges, but there is ALWAYS a better option than a grab for that. It is too slow on startup to be a good OOS option against attacking foes. Most of the time they have a chance to hit the shield, land, and dodge before i can get out a grab.

I repeat jab cancel on their shield until they release shield (ftilt) or roll (grab)

I like samus a lot on brawl +. Samus can combo decently well, and her edgeguarding is back with a vengence (love edgeguarding with samus in melee, its so much fun) Missiles are good, and you can quadruple homing missile if you use your DJ. Zair is still a beast and her nair got buffed (halelujah). I think samus is a force to be reckoned with in B+, and its very fun to play as her.

About the closest thing I found to usefulness on Samus' grab is doing a dthrow to nair follow up. Up B might be worth while but the oppoenent would probably recover before you do.

I'm able to do u-throw uair AD-zair.

Samus's throws aren't actually too bad. They generally put the opponent in a good spot for samus to set up her projectile game. Some of the have small follow ups like nair or uair. The problem with her grab game is that her grab is terrible. It has massive startup and ending lag, so it's very difficult to land a grab in the first play, and if you miss, you get punished hard.

With that said, I agree with plum that it doesn't really need to be changed. I have only mentioned it briefly once in the IRC.

The only thing I have to say about samus so far is that I think that to her shorter characters will be more troublesome than taller ones. As we all know, super missiles is really pumped up, but JC them doesn't hit short characters like MK, squirtle, sheik crouching etc. Against taller characters, it's like "How will I ever get through this wall of spam?", and then chargeshot in their face.

Another cool thing about samus is that, there's no escape. I mean, just because you get hit away quite a bit, samus' combo doesn't have to end with zairs and homing missiles coming at you and in a split second another aerial.

I really want to learn how to play Samus good, but my PAL codeset isn't really up to date yet so I'm not playing much waiting for 4.1 to be converted.

I have a few vids recorded of me playing my brother in 4.0. I will have them up probably today or tomorrow.

Hey guys, any tips on approaching? I like using sh nair to hit above their shield while landing behind them, but some characters just aren't tall enough for this to work. Yeah, I know there's zair, but again, some characters are too short/too close to you for it to work. Dair is wonderful, but if I use it from a sh, I get grabbed a lot.

Don't tell me to just sit back and spam, I need to be able to keep up some decent pressure.

ESAM said:

I have a few vids recorded of me playing my brother in 4.0. I will have them up probably today or tomorrow.

Click to expand...

Do you have these up yet?

0RLy said:

Hey guys, any tips on approaching? I like using sh nair to hit above their shield while landing behind them, but some characters just aren't tall enough for this to work. Yeah, I know there's zair, but again, some characters are too short/too close to you for it to work. Dair is wonderful, but if I use it from a sh, I get grabbed a lot.

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I generally avoid using aerials to approach, with the occasional exception of fast falled fair against characters with slow/short grabs.

With zair, I'm sure that no standing characters are too short to not get hit. If they are ducking, then you could try fast falling, zair'ing to keep them crouched, then dtilting upon landing. Most characters don't have a combination of shortness and long range downtilt to beat this. Snake is the only one that I can think of that might have a long enough range down tilt. I'm sure there are a few others.

Something i like to do shoot a homing missile, along with possibly a super missile and follow it until i'm slightly outside their range, then act based on how they react to the missile. If they dodge or roll, charge shot them. If they jump, then you can zair/missile/whatever. If they just shield, then I would recommend just resetting.

Unrelated- Would anyone want to collect the FCs of samus mains here?

Eh I noticed there weren't any videos in the main post so I have a few that I'd like to share of my Samus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DQT5wBlps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVgGGlBFEGw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfX7pPV9LCQ

The videos aren't really the best though but I'd say they're decent enough...

Meltingbox said:

Eh I noticed there weren't any videos in the main post so I have a few that I'd like to share of my Samus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DQT5wBlps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVgGGlBFEGw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfX7pPV9LCQ

The videos aren't really the best though but I'd say they're decent enough...

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Yeah. The guide is unfinished, and AP exams put it on hold momentarily, but they are done, so i'll finish it probably this week.

Although for the video section, I'm not sure how i want to set it up yet. Maybe allow any samus mains to put up like two videos of themselves, and have another subsection for the best videos?

cman said:

I generally avoid using aerials to approach, with the occasional exception of fast falled fair against characters with slow/short grabs.

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Ew, I hate fair. It has no horizontal range at all. Aerials are good for approaching so long as you land behind the opponent.

With zair, I'm sure that no standing characters are too short to not get hit. If they are ducking, then you could try fast falling, zair'ing to keep them crouched, then dtilting upon landing.

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Sheik and Marth in their dash animation are really short. Pikachu and Diddy too. Fastfalling zair from a shorthop? Funny. I just shff dairs on shorter characters.

Most characters don't have a combination of shortness and long range downtilt to beat this. Snake is the only one that I can think of that might have a long enough range down tilt. I'm sure there are a few others.

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You can grab out of a crouch. Almost any character can flawlessly approach samus just by running up to her, shielding for a split second, then grabbing. Samus doesn't have a fast grab, so she can't do much about it except jump over them.

Unrelated- Would anyone want to collect the FCs of samus mains here?

Click to expand...

←If you want mine, it's right under my avatar.

0RLy said:

Ew, I hate fair. It has no horizontal range at all. Aerials are good for approaching so long as you land behind the opponent.

Sheik and Marth in their dash animation are really short. Pikachu and Diddy too. Fastfalling zair from a shorthop? Funny. I just shff dairs on shorter characters.

You can grab out of a crouch. Almost any character can flawlessly approach samus just by running up to her, shielding for a split second, then grabbing. Samus doesn't have a fast grab, so she can't do much about it except jump over them.

←If you want mine, it's right under my avatar.

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None of her aerials have great horizontal range with the except of bair.

I don't like shff dairs as much as a zair because they require a much eariler committment and you have to be much closer. Zair lets you react a lot better if they do something you were expecting.

And even though some can grab out of a crouch, they have to have a decent grab range to get her at the point i was talking about. Its a good strat against some characters, and less so against others.

As for the running up and shielding part, none of the people i play ever do that so i'm not sure, but couldn't you just retreat a shorthop when they shield?

Anyway, i'll probably finish up the guide within the next week or so.

Sick samus+ video guys! Hope that I can become that good one day.

I'm not sure if this happened during the transition between brawl and Brawl+ or if it was always there but has anyone noticed that the first hit jab hit doesn't combo into the second until mid percents? It's pretty **** annoying.

PaintedGhost said:

I'm not sure if this happened during the transition between brawl and Brawl+ or if it was always there but has anyone noticed that the first hit jab hit doesn't combo into the second until mid percents? It's pretty **** annoying.

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You sure about that? I remember being able to land both hits at 9% last time I was playing as Samus. But then again, maybe my opponents were DIing into it. I know for sure it wasn't a reliable attack in vBrawl though. I'll keep an eye out for this next time I play her.

PaintedGhost said:

I'm not sure if this happened during the transition between brawl and Brawl+ or if it was always there but has anyone noticed that the first hit jab hit doesn't combo into the second until mid percents? It's pretty **** annoying.

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Yea I have actually. I don't usually run into problems with it, but i'll test to see if there are any guaranteed follow-ups

Samus is a B****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgO2XNksrAI