"Samus+ aka Why wasn't the Phazon Suit in vBrawl?" Guide and Discussion Thread *WIP*

[cman]

Ew, I hate fair. It has no horizontal range at all.

From my preliminary testing, it seems that fair actually has the most horizontal range of all her aerials (including bair). Additionally, the weaker middle hits of fair combo into jab and dtilt (possibly more) at mid percents

I'm not sure if this happened during the transition between brawl and Brawl+ or if it was always there but has anyone noticed that the first hit jab hit doesn't combo into the second until mid percents? It's pretty **** annoying.

It begins to combo at 13% from my testing. Nothing else combos from the first hit of a jab until much later. Very frustrating.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

This may be a stupid question but can someone link me to a site where they have the Phazon suit texture?

 

[luvs2pluck]

kitty corp has a lot of textures, but you have to sign up.

Fair is much better in brawl+, it combos into itself at low-mid percents as long as you catch someone with the end hit, then you can follow with zair, that's a 40%ish damage combo with all hits of both fairs connecting. If you cancel fair on a grounded opponent it will combo into dtilt at mid-percents and into charge shot at pretty high percents (like 110+). Overall a good move.

Ive been messing with quadruple homing shots. The timings very tight, you only have 2 or 3 frames to input sideb after full hopping then another sideb > double jump > two more sidebs. It really isn't that much faster than just landing after a fullhop double missle then fullhopping again, but its still pretty cool.

Im kinda disappointed in the seemingly low amount of interest in Samus in brawl+. Im not sure how many people realize how fun she is with the missile speed ups. Maybe when her bombs get buffed...

Anyway here are some decent videos of Ninjalink using samus in brawl+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5u5wdgcwdA&feature=channel_page < good use of missiles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHau3BEDRwA&feature=channel_page < good vid showing how samus can play up close, little too aggressive with the uairs though...


p.s. Samus has advantage on Marth in brawl+, BELIEVE IT

 

[cman]

kitty corp has a lot of textures, but you have to sign up.

Fair is much better in brawl+, it combos into itself at low-mid percents as long as you catch someone with the end hit, then you can follow with zair, that's a 40%ish damage combo with all hits of both fairs connecting. If you cancel fair on a grounded opponent it will combo into dtilt at mid-percents and into charge shot at pretty high percents (like 110+). Overall a good move.

Ive been messing with quadruple homing shots. The timings very tight, you only have 2 or 3 frames to input sideb after full hopping then another sideb > double jump > two more sidebs. It really isn't that much faster than just landing after a fullhop double missle then fullhopping again, but its still pretty cool.

Im kinda disappointed in the seemingly low amount of interest in Samus in brawl+. Im not sure how many people realize how fun she is with the missile speed ups. Maybe when her bombs get buffed...

Anyway here are some decent videos of Ninjalink using samus in brawl+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5u5wdgcwdA&feature=channel_page < good use of missiles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHau3BEDRwA&feature=channel_page < good vid showing how samus can play up close, little too aggressive with the uairs though...

p.s. Samus has advantage on Marth in brawl+, BELIEVE IT

Yea, samus doesn't have many playing her, but she is awesome anyway. I want to hear why you think that samus has an advantage on marth though. That sounds a little fantastic, but if it's true then there will be a whole lot more interest in her!

Thanks for the vids. I'll put them in the op

 

[luvs2pluck]

I want to hear why you think that samus has an advantage on marth though. That sounds a little fantastic, but if it's true then there will be a whole lot more interest in her!

Haha, youre right, it is a little fantastic. I wouldn't say its a big advantage, probably almost even. But it is definitly not in Marth's favor. Let me say first that I have the most experience with samus and marth than any other character, and my roommate and I just got the 10,000 match notice a little while ago, so weve got plenty of experience.

So here are some points I have about the matchup, feel free to argue and discuss:

-Samus takes away Marth's main damage builder, his juggling game. Samus is both heavy and floaty, making her juggle resistant but still able to survive at higher percents.

-Marth's ground speed is above average, but his air speed is still a joke. This makes it very difficult for marth to weave in between homing missles and super missles while approaching. A good marth will actually do sh double fairs to cut through all the missles, but this gives samus an advantage by forcing him to commit to an attack.

-Marth's air speed and relatively tall height make him a very easy target for zairs, your best tool in this match.

-Marth's light, at about 90 percent you can start comboing a well timed zair into a charge shot (just tested, if timed right he wont have time to tech the ground)

-Don't tell any of the other character boards, but samus kinda gets ***** by anyone who can approach from high over missles and zairs then come down on her with a powerful attack (ganon destroys samus in brawl+, truth) Marth cannot do this, his dair is crap for anything but edgeguarding

-Samus straight ftilt outranges all of marths ground moves but sheildbreaker. And dtilt outranges all but fsmash.

-Neither character can edgegaurd the other well, marth's recovery is pretty spike proof. Just stand back and double homing missle. If you knocked him off pretty far, its sometimes fun to rar off the stage and tether the edge as he uses upB to recover, you'll either gimp him or follow up as he lands on the stage.

-Ultimately, Marth is still an incredibly good character but if you play a solid samus game (and use a lot of retreating zairs for spacing) marth will have a hard time getting in. Overall I'd say its 55:45 samus overall. On FD Id say 60:40 samus and on WW Id say 70:30 Marth's favor lol

P.S. New samus usmash is great, and is there anyway to allow homing missles to pass through platforms?

 

[cman]

Haha, youre right, it is a little fantastic. I wouldn't say its a big advantage, probably almost even. But it is definitly not in Marth's favor. Let me say first that I have the most experience with samus and marth than any other character, and my roommate and I just got the 10,000 match notice a little while ago, so weve got plenty of experience.

So here are some points I have about the matchup, feel free to argue and discuss:

-Samus takes away Marth's main damage builder, his juggling game. Samus is both heavy and floaty, making her juggle resistant but still able to survive at higher percents.

-Marth's ground speed is above average, but his air speed is still a joke. This makes it very difficult for marth to weave in between homing missles and super missles while approaching. A good marth will actually do sh double fairs to cut through all the missles, but this gives samus an advantage by forcing him to commit to an attack.

-Marth's air speed and relatively tall height make him a very easy target for zairs, your best tool in this match.

-Marth's light, at about 90 percent you can start comboing a well timed zair into a charge shot (just tested, if timed right he wont have time to tech the ground)

-Don't tell any of the other character boards, but samus kinda gets ***** by anyone who can approach from high over missles and zairs then come down on her with a powerful attack (ganon destroys samus in brawl+, truth) Marth cannot do this, his dair is crap for anything but edgeguarding

-Samus straight ftilt outranges all of marths ground moves but sheildbreaker. And dtilt outranges all but fsmash.

-Neither character can edgegaurd the other well, marth's recovery is pretty spike proof. Just stand back and double homing missle. If you knocked him off pretty far, its sometimes fun to rar off the stage and tether the edge as he uses upB to recover, you'll either gimp him or follow up as he lands on the stage.

-Ultimately, Marth is still an incredibly good character but if you play a solid samus game (and use a lot of retreating zairs for spacing) marth will have a hard time getting in. Overall I'd say its 55:45 samus overall. On FD Id say 60:40 samus and on WW Id say 70:30 Marth's favor lol

P.S. New samus usmash is great, and is there anyway to allow homing missles to pass through platforms?

My biggest reservation is that samus basically loses all options once marth gets inside her camping range. His range is great, and though samus may outrange him on an attack or two, his disjointed sword is still going to beat most of her options. IIRC marth's fair is slightly faster than ftilt also. How can samus deal with that?

As far as edgeguarding goes, utilt would absolutely **** marth with either hitbox if he didn't have like perfect upb spacing, but does his dolphin slash have enough horizontal range to keep her out of utilt range? I don't know off hand, and I can't test it right now.

Usmash is better, but still unreliable. Sometimes it still knocks characters out mid attack when they come from above, and then they can punish it. The first hit doesn't pick up some characters when they are grounded either, allowing them to punish. It's an improvement, but still needs a bit of work, unless we can figure out exactly on whom and when it works.

As for the homing missile thing, it might be possible, but i don't think it's necessary. Might even be too good.

 

[luvs2pluck]

My biggest reservation is that samus basically loses all options once marth gets inside her camping range. His range is great, and though samus may outrange him on an attack or two, his disjointed sword is still going to beat most of her options. IIRC marth's fair is slightly faster than ftilt also. How can samus deal with that?

As far as edgeguarding goes, utilt would absolutely **** marth with either hitbox if he didn't have like perfect upb spacing, but does his dolphin slash have enough horizontal range to keep her out of utilt range? I don't know off hand, and I can't test it right now.

Usmash is better, but still unreliable. Sometimes it still knocks characters out mid attack when they come from above, and then they can punish it. The first hit doesn't pick up some characters when they are grounded either, allowing them to punish. It's an improvement, but still needs a bit of work, unless we can figure out exactly on whom and when it works.

As for the homing missile thing, it might be possible, but i don't think it's necessary. Might even be too good.

Youre right that samus does not have an answer for a well spaced fair, which is unfortunately what any good marth excels at. The point I am making is that samus has many good options to keep marth out of this range, especially as a retreating zair will destroy a marth aggressively approaching with fairs. One thing about the usmash buff is that the move becomes a better OOS option for samus, so a OOS hyphen smash may be a new effective way of countering a shielded fair, we should test.

Utilt would unfortunately not work as an edgeguard on marth because he could just dolphin slash closer to the stage, with the sword going through the stage and hitting samus far out of range of her utilt, and then safely autosnapping marth to the edge. So I would either stick to double homing missiles for annoyance, or use the time to safely charge your charge shot. Maybe running off stage then doing a b-reversed charge shot toward the edge as he uses up-B could be an effective strategy...

Also I would like to mention that it is possible to hit a very short character like squirtle or olimar with an canceled aerial super missle. I messed around with it and the super missile seems to connect based on which animation samus does with her short hop, with the best chance being the small backflip where samus curls up. If you mess around and shoot lots of super missiles youll see what Im talking about, it seems to happen randomly though. It would be great to figure out how to do it consistently.

 

[cman]

Youre right that samus does not have an answer for a well spaced fair, which is unfortunately what any good marth excels at. The point I am making is that samus has many good options to keep marth out of this range, especially as a retreating zair will destroy a marth aggressively approaching with fairs. One thing about the usmash buff is that the move becomes a better OOS option for samus, so a OOS hyphen smash may be a new effective way of countering a shielded fair, we should test.

Utilt would unfortunately not work as an edgeguard on marth because he could just dolphin slash closer to the stage, with the sword going through the stage and hitting samus far out of range of her utilt, and then safely autosnapping marth to the edge. So I would either stick to double homing missiles for annoyance, or use the time to safely charge your charge shot. Maybe running off stage then doing a b-reversed charge shot toward the edge as he uses up-B could be an effective strategy...

Also I would like to mention that it is possible to hit a very short character like squirtle or olimar with an canceled aerial super missle. I messed around with it and the super missile seems to connect based on which animation samus does with her short hop, with the best chance being the small backflip where samus curls up. If you mess around and shoot lots of super missiles youll see what Im talking about, it seems to happen randomly though. It would be great to figure out how to do it consistently.

Most of the time a marth won't throw out a fair until they are falling back down so they don't have to commit to one sooner. A marth might be able to react to a retreated zair and AD in time, though it's probably unlikely. That just means that we can't get consistant with zairs. Also, there is nothing that can punish a well spaced fair, unless maybe you powershield it. Usmash is too slow and marth's fair autocancels, so he will be able to act long before the hitbox comes out. I haven't tested it, but currently usmash seems to be a bit too slow to be a decent oos option on anyone.

Utilt has crazy range and the best edgeguarding trajectories (either straight up for combos dair-style, or a high kb hit at like a 15 degree angle w/o DI). It's an incredible edge guarder on a lot of the cast. I'm just not sure whether the horizontal range of dolphin slash is better than the horizontal range of utilt. Probably, but utilt would be fantastic for edgeguarding marth, so it deserves testing.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

wouldn't upB be good for getting a close range marth?

 

[CloneHat]

wouldn't upB be good for getting a close range marth?

Uair utilt uair fair

Screw attack is no match for fast aerials.

 

[KayJay]

I recorded some FFA 3 Player Wi-Fi matches:

Wi-Fi Round 1 K.J. (Samus) vs. Tsuki (Falco) vs. Bube (Marth)
Wi-Fi Round 2 Bube (Fox) vs. K.J. (Samus) vs. Tsuki (Marth)
Wi-Fi Round 3 Bube (Lucario) vs. Tsuki (Ganon) vs. K.J. (Samus)
Wi-Fi Round 4 K.J. (Samus) vs. Bube (Snake) vs. Tsuki (Link)

 

[Vaul]

Sooo as long as we're on matchups....any advice for Sheik? Like, an aggressive one who makes it their mission to ftilt and grab you. And remember, sheik is very, very fast (basically trying to prevent the expected 'just shoot missiles and space' response).

 

[cobaltblue]

Sooo as long as we're on matchups....any advice for Sheik? Like, an aggressive one who makes it their mission to ftilt and grab you. And remember, sheik is very, very fast (basically trying to prevent the expected 'just shoot missiles and space' response).

From my time playing against a Zelda main learning her (medium skilled at best). My only advice is space with zair and force them to run into your nair boot. The tilting is a pain but even a bomb is good just as long as you can break the tilt combo and start annoying them again. Keeping a charge is helpful too (as always) if only for the threat it presents and the fact it'll force the sheik player to play a bit more reserved as they'll begin to worry about you firing at point blank. Also be sure to take every chance you get to edge guard. Edge hogging can work if you can time the invincibility frames well. Otherwise spam zair/nairs for high returns, supers/charged shots for medium returns, and homing for low.

If all else fails learn to master the change to ZSS command and play a game of high speed cat and mouse.

 

[CloneHat]

For Sheik, cancelled super missiles give almost no pressure (I think her dash goes under them), and homing missiles are very slow against her. Zair and charge shot and lots of running away! I wiser idea would to just switch to your secondary.

 

[VietGeek]

Someone complained about Samus's jab never connecting correctly. Could someone who uses Samus test these changes? I don't have a human opponent, so please get a friend and try to DI and SDI it in various ways.

Put this is the Hitbox Modifier Engine and change the byte count on the first line.

Samus Jab:

hitbox one (tip "hand")

03035005 00169024
03501400 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

3 DMG, 80 growth, 20 base from 5, 100 degrees from special 20 (361)

hitbox 2 (blunt inner)
03036405 00169024
03501400 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

3 DMG, fixed to 80 from 100 growth, 20 base from 5

 

[KayJay]

Samus Jab:

hitbox one (tip "hand")

03035005 00169024
03501400 00640000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

3 DMG, 80 growth, 20 base from 5, 100 degrees from special 20 (361)

hitbox 2 (blunt inner)
03036405 00169024
03501400 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

3 DMG, fixed to 80 from 100 growth, 20 base from 5

I can't get it to work (game freezes when i choose samus), I think I'm doing it wrong, I copy & pasted these lines into the end of the "Hitbox Property Mod Data" so it looks like this:

Hitbox Property Mod Data [Phantom Wings, spunit262] 667 lines
* 065A9800 000014D0
* 00075050 0004B033
* 07503C00 004B0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 000C501E 00169033
* 0C641E00 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 000D4B14 00118033
* 0D4B2800 01180000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 000A5014 00169033
* 0A501400 015E0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020C4844 02169118
* 0C485502 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02094844 02169118
* 09484402 00100000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02095037 02169118
* 09503702 00100000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02075037 02169118
* 07503702 00100000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02075014 02169118
* 07501402 00100000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020F5A19 0216902C
* 0F5A1902 00190000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020E5A19 0216902C
* 0E5A1902 00190000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020C325A 02050029
* 0C324002 01180000
* 06200000 3F800000
* 02055014 02169118
* 05501402 00100000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020A5046 02050032
* 0A5F4B02 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020A5046 0205A032
* 0A5F4B02 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02095046 0205A032
* 095F4B02 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02085046 0205A032
* 085F4B02 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02096405 02169033
* 06052802 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02046400 00048033
* 04002300 00480000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02046400 00044033
* 04002300 00480000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02074646 00169033
* 073C3200 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020F5512 02050033
* 0F551902 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 02061E3C 0202D07F
* 061E3C02 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020A501E 0205A026
* 0A3C2802 006E0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020C501E 02050026
* 0A3C2802 00640000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020B501E 02046026
* 0A3C2802 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 020B501E 0203C026
* 0A3C2802 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0309500A 00169033
* 09781600 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 030D6414 0016902C
* 0D5A3800 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 040E3F1E 0001E02F
* 0E501E00 00170000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 040E351E 0001E02F
* 0E461E00 00170000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 040D3F1E 0001E02F
* 0D501E00 00170000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 040D351E 0001E02F
* 0D461E00 00170000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 050C500A 00169033
* 0C503C00 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 050A500A 00169033
* 0A503C00 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0508500A 00169033
* 08503C00 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0506500A 00169033
* 06503C00 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 05076628 0005C028
* 07663700 005C0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 05056628 00058028
* 05663700 00580000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0609640A 00169033
* 09641400 00320000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 06066400 00169033
* 06680A00 00320000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 060A6E16 0006E028
* 07872F00 00540000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 06086E12 00054028
* 07872F00 00540000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 06086E12 00050028
* 07892F00 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 06032821 0011D033
* 02282100 011D0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0602140A 00023024
* 02141400 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0602140A 00050024
* 02141400 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0602140A 00014024
* 02141400 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0814483A 0505A114
* 143C3A05 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 09073464 05050118
* 072B5605 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 090E640A 0010E033
* 0E562000 010E0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 09065023 00169033
* 135D1E03 00200000
* 85A00000 3F199999
* 0A041403 00000029
* 04140300 00050000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0A123E32 0016902C
* 123E3200 01690000
* 8BA05276 3F800000
* 0A143E32 0016902C
* 143E3200 01690000
* 8BA05276 3F800000
* 0A163E32 0016902C
* 163E3200 01690000
* 8BA05276 3F800000
* 0A183E32 0016902C
* 183E3200 01690000
* 8BA05276 3F800000
* 0B175119 0016902C
* 175A3205 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0F5319 02023033
* 0F531902 00140000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0E6414 02169029
* 0E641402 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0B532D 00169027
* 0E532D00 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0D5028 02169033
* 0E502802 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0C5028 02169033
* 0F502802 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0B5028 02169033
* 0E502802 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0B5046 00050117
* 0B5A4600 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B053250 0205A117
* 05326402 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B033232 02046117
* 03324602 00460000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B144B2D 0004C11A
* 145A3C00 004C0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0B0B483C 0004C11B
* 0E503C00 004C0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0C057828 00046033
* 05502800 00460000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0C055026 0209102F
* 07503202 00910000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0C0F443C 00169033
* 0F5A2300 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0D05D214 0305A032
* 05B41E03 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0E096C00 0001E033
* 09780000 001E0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0E056414 0005A027
* 05554000 00460000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F0A7814 00046033
* 0A911400 00460000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F0C5F28 00028033
* 0C5F3A00 00280000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F0C691E 0003C02F
* 0C781E00 002D0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F0A6932 0005302F
* 0A783200 002D0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F0C661E 0003C02F
* 0C781E00 002D0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F0A6632 0005302F
* 0A783200 002D0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F085A28 00046033
* 085A3C00 00460000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F063C5A 00050026
* 06283C00 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F02820F 0001E113
* 02500500 00F00000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F058014 00169044
* 05462800 01400000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F058E14 00046033
* 05321400 00230000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F097132 00053032
* 09713200 00610000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F087132 00053032
* 08713200 00610000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F09711E 0003C02F
* 095F1E00 000A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F087132 0005302F
* 085F3200 000A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F08711E 0003C02F
* 085F1E00 000A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F076428 00028033
* 070F0800 010E0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F0C0A14 0010E033
* 0C1E0A00 010E0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F058228 00169033
* 053C1E00 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F04285A 00050026
* 04283C00 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F016400 0005003A
* 01640004 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 0F025005 0001E113
* 02500500 003C0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 110A4628 02169033
* 08462A02 00280000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 110D5028 02169033
* 0B502A02 00320000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 110A4628 02050033
* 08462802 00500000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 110D5028 0005A033
* 0B5F2A00 005A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 110D4446 02169114
* 0A444602 00230000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 110D4446 0204A114
* 0A444602 004A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 11031923 0204B113
* 03192302 004B0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 11031E16 0202811A
* 021E1602 00280000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 11031E16 0200A11A
* 021E1602 000A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* 021E1402 00460000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* 031E1402 00500000
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* 061E500F 00780000
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* 033C5002 00320000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 140B641E 13041114
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* 0F643213 01180000
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* 0E411413 016B0000
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* 16093C5A 0201E11D
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* 16036400 02062033
* 00000001 00620000
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* 09732D00 00500000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 1F0A5C20 11032033
* 0A5C2011 00500000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 6E006400 12037000
* 00460512 00320000
* 00000000 3F800000
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* 00460512 00320000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* 04320F00 00140000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* 013C0504 00E10000
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* 013C0504 00E10000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 6405283C 02041002
* 081E3C02 00410000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 73036400 03169000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 64066423 E3169FFF
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* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 6406641E E305AFFF
* 081080E3 006A0000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 03035005 00169024
* 03501400 00640000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000
* 03036405 00169024
* 03501400 01690000
* FFFFFFFF 3F800000

 

[VietGeek]

snip

Post the codes into the section of the Hitbox Mod Data that is for Samus.

The line should start with 03.

So example:

There's an existing Samus hitbox mod:

0309500A 00169033
09781600 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

post the two codes under it.

Also you need to change the byte count on the first line:

065A9800 0000XXXX

You count all the lines disregarding the first line (which you're changing the byte count data of). So that should be 666 lines right?

kk, so these two codes are 6 lines total, right?

So that's 672 lines of code (again not including the first line).

Now multiply that by 8 for the byte count (5376).

Then convert the product to hexadecimal: 1500 (5376 in hex)

So you put that in, and now change the first line to:

065A9800 00001500

Now see if it works. If you followed all the steps, it should work unless you've been messing with some other stuff.

 

[KayJay]

Thank you, so far it works awesome, (tested against cpu)
Jab cancel to down tilt seems to be a true combo now.
I will test it today or tomorrow with a friend (marth main).

 

[VietGeek]

...so...

how was it? o_o

 

[Slug]

Having trouble vs Zamus.. would you say the same advice when fighting sheik? She's fast and combos like nothing. I see this a lot: dash attack > Dtilt > Uair forever. Or dash attack to the edge of stage -_-. She's crazy fast and it's hard to space her, especially with her crouch. Any help?

 

[KayJay]

So i played many matches now with different people and the jab fix is still awesome, sometimes they DI forward to avoid the second hit, but that rarely happens so its fine. You can Jab cancel easy to Dtilt, Dsmash & nAir, at higher percents you can Jab cancel to Utilt.
This Jab fix definitely has to be in the next official build!

 

[Roager]

I can't edit my SD card, so I'll have to ask here. What does this "Jab Fix" even do? I haven't noticed any real problems with the jab. I'm using 4.1B, not the nightly.

 

[KayJay]

I can't edit my SD card, so I'll have to ask here. What does this "Jab Fix" even do? I haven't noticed any real problems with the jab. I'm using 4.1B, not the nightly.

in vBrawl and previous Brawl+, Samus's regular Jabcombo is not a combo, at low % between the two jabs, the opponent can hit you back even if he gets hit by the first Jab, Samus can't even sheild after her first Jab to block the opponents counterattack because he recovered faster before your first jab animation was over.
And now Samus has a working Jab, without worring to get punished.

 

[Roager]

ah, ok. Well, then, yeah, this should definitely get put into the next build. Does anyone know if it's in the 7-10 nightly?

Also, am I the only one who has trouble killing with Samus+? The only killer I can ever really land is Charge Beam. Fsmash works occasionally as a punisher, but that's about it. Occasionally Smash Missiles work, but I use them too much, and they get decayed, so I can't kill with them.

 

[VietGeek]

ah, ok. Well, then, yeah, this should definitely get put into the next build. Does anyone know if it's in the 7-10 nightly?

Also, am I the only one who has trouble killing with Samus+? The only killer I can ever really land is Charge Beam. Fsmash works occasionally as a punisher, but that's about it. Occasionally Smash Missiles work, but I use them too much, and they get decayed, so I can't kill with them.

It's in, go try it out.

 

[KayJay]

Also, am I the only one who has trouble killing with Samus+? The only killer I can ever really land is Charge Beam. Fsmash works occasionally as a punisher, but that's about it. Occasionally Smash Missiles work, but I use them too much, and they get decayed, so I can't kill with them.

Short hop > wait for about 20 ms before doing a f.air without fast falling > if the opponent gets hit by your f.air, u can hit him with f.smash right when you land (because he only gets stunned from the few hits of your f.air and doesn't fly away). It works really well.
Otherwise: Zair -> dash and cancel into a f.smash

 

[cobaltblue]

Having trouble vs Zamus.. would you say the same advice when fighting sheik? She's fast and combos like nothing. I see this a lot: dash attack > Dtilt > Uair forever. Or dash attack to the edge of stage -_-. She's crazy fast and it's hard to space her, especially with her crouch. Any help?

Sorry I have no idea. I don't know anyone that mains her besides me. And I don't know any samus mains so I can't even give you a perspective of what I hate when facing off against Samus as Zsamus.

Now simply speculating good DI and Nair will probably be your best friend as Nair has good knockback and DIing will help get you out of the dash/uair combos. As I'm sure you've gussed by now, getting under Zsamus is a bad idea due to your floatyness and generally lead to uair of doom. Missiles should be used with the intent to manipulate Zsamus into where you want her to be rather than attempting to actually connect. Edge guarding by gimping will also be a must. In particulary using your teather to grab the ledge before she teathers would be smart as then she can't grab the ledge and you can move up with invincablity frames before she can knock you off.

I also recommend playing defensive in an attempt to force her to run into your moves. Using only quick moves rather than those that have a lag will also be helpful. If you can time it, dtilt may help in breaking up that nasty dash attack combo but that will require some good timing on your part. I also would not even bother trying to Zair her unless the opponent is hella stupid and does not know how to air dodge and fast fall.

Wish I could be of more help.

 

[Slug]

I think I have so much trouble with her because my friend's Zamus destroys my spacing...

but anyway, thanks Cobalt.. haha, I've pretty much learned to play defensively against Zamus, which is a little frustrating because the particular Zamus I play is extremely defensive himself. Everything you said is right haha, you probably imagined it very near to how the match is played and I don't think anyone can greatly help beyond what you said. I think Zamus simply has the advantage in this matchup.

So really, dtilt works at times, play defensively, nair combo breakers.. holding back on the zairing/missile spam. These are good tips. You really have to change your style and just go back to basics (don't get hit!), because there's no real panic move you can do to properly space.. because when she gets close to you Samus has a hard time getting her out of your face.

 

[Rkey]

Why are you saying that up-b is mediocre? I think it's a great attack, both for doing it oos and when charging a shot for a surprise attack (you know, cancel the charge with shield and then up-b quickly enough for the shield not to pop out).

And I need to work on getting my kills, I always get my opponent at like 150% before I manage...

 

[0RLY]

Trouble vs. fox...
His nair to anything is unavoidable. He always lands behind me so its either a perfect utilt, jabs, or grab. Heck, fox is so fast, he could nair through my shield and still have time to dair me before my shieldstun wears off. It's like my only options are GET HIT or GET GRABBED. He recovers from his aerials faster than my spot dodge animation, so that's also not an option.

Hes too fast, so projectiles aren't even close as a viable option. Retreating zair works sometimes, but I can only retreat so far until my back is against the ledge. I need some anti-air options. Using my nair is helpful since it usually beats Fox's, but hes just so fast. He could just run around shffing and I cant tell what hes going to do next. It's like a guessing game of rock paper scissors; I dont want it to be like that.

 

[KayJay]

Trouble vs. fox...
His nair to anything is unavoidable. He always lands behind me so its either a perfect utilt, jabs, or grab. Heck, fox is so fast, he could nair through my shield and still have time to dair me before my shieldstun wears off. It's like my only options are GET HIT or GET GRABBED. He recovers from his aerials faster than my spot dodge animation, so that's also not an option.

Hes too fast, so projectiles aren't even close as a viable option. Retreating zair works sometimes, but I can only retreat so far until my back is against the ledge. I need some anti-air options. Using my nair is helpful since it usually beats Fox's, but hes just so fast. He could just run around shffing and I cant tell what hes going to do next. It's like a guessing game of rock paper scissors; I dont want it to be like that.

Against pikachu its even worst, usually the best thing is mix up with short hop homing missiles, short hop dairs and full hop fast falling down airs, and retreating short hop fast falling jabs (cancel into dtilt) and of course a few zairs (not effective against pikachu, but should be useful against fox)

 

[0RLY]

Against pikachu its even worst,

Didn't get to play a good pikachu XD

usually the best thing is mix up with short hop homing missiles,

I already said no projectiles. They're too slow to come out, fox will just nair me.

short hop dairs and full hop fast falling down airs,

Do you even know how often dair NEVER lands? You have to like start the dair as soon as you jump or else the hitbox wont come out. The fox player will just see the dair animation start and full hop dair me or something. He could just dash dance away and dash attack right before i land or catch me in the air with a fair.

and retreating short hop fast falling jabs (cancel into dtilt) and of course a few zairs (not effective against pikachu, but should be useful against fox)

I think fox can like, shffl 2 nairs before Samus finishes a sh. Jabs aren't that good for anti-air. Fox's nair>>Samus' jabs. Dash Attack from landing is much safer since you at least have a chance at ending up behind a shield, and hopefully out of range of Fox's utilt. :X

Smash isn't really a game where you can find a random move that just beats an opponent. It's a playstyle or a strategy of some sorts. You can't just tell a player to grab more against Wario just because he's weak to grab releases.

BTW, screw attack as an offensive move is really freaking good. Spam it. It's like a free 10% and its so fast, and its got awesome priority, and its got good knockback, and its awesome, and oh, just use it.

 

[KayJay]

Do you even know how often dair NEVER lands? You have to like start the dair as soon as you jump or else the hitbox wont come out. The fox player will just see the dair animation start and full hop dair me or something. He could just dash dance away and dash attack right before i land or catch me in the air with a fair.

Try using it defensively, short hop but jumping back, and down air (with c-stick) when u are at the highest high from the short hop, than move forward in the air while she performs the down air, this is pretty safe and the hitbox from the down air is bigger as you think.

 

[ph00tbag]

I think I have so much trouble with her because my friend's Zamus destroys my spacing...

but anyway, thanks Cobalt.. haha, I've pretty much learned to play defensively against Zamus, which is a little frustrating because the particular Zamus I play is extremely defensive himself. Everything you said is right haha, you probably imagined it very near to how the match is played and I don't think anyone can greatly help beyond what you said. I think Zamus simply has the advantage in this matchup.

So really, dtilt works at times, play defensively, nair combo breakers.. holding back on the zairing/missile spam. These are good tips. You really have to change your style and just go back to basics (don't get hit!), because there's no real panic move you can do to properly space.. because when she gets close to you Samus has a hard time getting her out of your face.

You've pretty much got the stuff I would say. Ftilt has kind of been forgotten about it Brawl because Zair spaces so well, but ftilt still wrecks most approaches because of its range. It's unfortunate since ftilt was invaluable in 64 and Melee, and no one knows how good it still is. Space with ftilt, break combos with nair. Edgeguarding with nair is also good.

I'd expect you to have trouble with ZSS, really. ZSS's pressure game is really good on projectile characters if they don't have a move that out-ranges her. Even ftilt doesn't really out-range ZSS's pressure, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Finns7]

You get fox offstage and its gg's, he can be a ***** though until you get him in your grasp. Killing problems? No Dair to bair? missed zair tech to charge shot, you cant really use the samus cant kill excuse. REMEMBER vbrawl T_T those dark scary nights.

 

[Rkey]

Why are you saying that up-b is mediocre? I think it's a great attack, both for doing it oos and when charging a shot for a surprise attack (you know, cancel the charge with shield and then up-b quickly enough for the shield not to pop out).

And I need to work on getting my kills, I always get my opponent at like 150% before I manage...

I have two more questions: Give me one reason to use bombs, whatever the situation. That, and how come the grapple beam sometimes just doesn't grab the ledge? You know, when it touches the ledge and then retracts?

And yeah, previous post too

 

[Finns7]

Ive been playing brawl+ since the start really and I still dont know why it does that ;p just never asked really, bombs at the edge

Watch tudors combo vid for ideas about bombs and that **** was in vbrawl O_O.

 

[Rkey]

Ive been playing brawl+ since the start really and I still dont know why it does that ;p just never asked really, bombs at the edge

Watch tudors combo vid for ideas about bombs and that **** was in vbrawl O_O.

I guess bombs are situational, and I know it's good to slow your descend in air (perhaps to avoid an uair or the like). I had an idea that it might be because you are holding slightly down or slightly away from the edge with your a-stick.

Btw, I find the double grapple to be a nice mindgame (grappel the edge, press down to let go without changing Samus' position and the grapple again. Looks nice ^_^)

But I still rock with my up-b! That stuff ain't mediocre


Oh, and cred for great reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gWYkCTG4xk Good stuuf, I'm getting ideas after the first minute here ^_^

 

[Perfect Chaos]

So is it possible for PSA to make Samus's bombs explode on impact with the enemy, like how it was in Melee? If it is, I would help Samus out a lot. It was a great tool for zoning purposes in Melee. And it plays well with Samus's strengths, as well.

And this may be asking for too much, but what about the bomb exploding interrupting z-air (once again, à la Melee's Samus)?

These, especially the former, would actually make Samus's bombs useful, again.

 

[MrBubble]

how come the grapple beam sometimes just doesn't grab the ledge? You know, when it touches the ledge and then retracts?

I believe it happens when Samus' momentum is moving away from the ledge when you press Z.

I'm a bit horrid at explaining stuff, but I'll try. Samus' tether beam will stretch out to the exact amount of length needed to snap the ledge at the moment you press Z. Since the beam is rather slow-reaching when you use it, any movement away from the ledge when you press Z may leave a gap. This can happen when falling as well.

I've had this happen with Lucas as well since he and Samus have slow tethers, I think. You can prevent it by making sure you have momentum towards the ledge when you zair.

As for the explode-on-touch morph bombs, I thought they were working on it or is it off the table now?