Squirtle's New AT: Itemplane (Hold Item Hydroplane)

I was playing around in training mode today, practicing fsmash hydros, reverse fsmash hydros and glide tossing bananas.

Its widely know that you can do a fsmash while holding an item. For those who don't know..
Hold A down when you pick it up and keep it there, input an fsmash with the c-stick and it will start to charge. Let go of A as you normally would for a charged smash, and you'll still be holding the item.

Again, for those who don't know, a REVERSE fsmash hydroplane is similar input to the hydro dsmash.
Run, pivot and as soon as squirtle goes into his shell, input c-stick in the opposite direction and Z/A at the same time. As long as you hold Z/A you'll slide, let go to fsmash and it will cancel your momentum.
I.e.
Squirtle slides left a loooong way, and the smash goes right.

Mindgames galore. I use it for kills nowadays, as it makes fsmash viable.

Now, I also discovered that during the dash pivot animation, you can input A and it won't dash attack or jab. While holding an item this means you can hold A down without having to do such from the initial pickup. After learning this, I tried my reverse hydro fsmash. Squirtle slid the entire distance of smashville, let out a fsmash, with a banana still in hand. Same effect occurs when doing a regular fsmash hydro, but it is harder to do, and not as effective.

For me, this changes the Diddy matchup a lot more in Squirtles favour. I want to show video proof but I lack the tools. Feel free to test it out yourself. I dunno if it has been discovered, thus the "?" in the title. If not, discuss.

So I may have found a "Reverse Fsmash Hydroplane Item Hold" lol. A shorter name may be in order... like Itemplane.

Seems kinda situational. I don't see how it would change the Diddy matchup "a lot more in Squirtles favour". The ending lag on Squirtle's f-smash feels too long to do anything gamebreaking with a banana after. Maybe someone could explain how this could be used?

Good find nonetheless.

that technique has been discovered long ago

oh and its called reverse shell shifting

lol thats what alot of the Toon Links said about my bomb grapple where you simply throw the bomb ahead of you and then grab them while they are caught in the hit stun and are about to hit the ground. it works up to about 45%, I tested it in training mode and it works but no, they said it's purely situational, and I have done it on my friends alot, online and ofline. So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this that it is that effective.

I'm going to try and make it a goal to learn to fight without tap jump off. I actually did it this past tournament Friday against someone because I was on a new Wii and I didnt want to keep them waiting so I went against them with tap jump on. Surprisingly, which I noticed whicle fighting, I didnt do half bad. I did feel a little unstable because I wasnt sure when I would accidentally jump when I hit the A-stick up do do a tilt or smash. I dont think it happened at all during my match, but it still felt a little awkward, though I think that if I learned to get used to tap jump then I could do the hydro grab and other smashes just fine, because, well, all I can do w/o tap jump is the Hydro up smash. I've tried the other smashes and even the grab but it fails. So unles I can do it without tap jump, I'm going to try and switch to tap jump being on.

ive actually been using that thing with TL bomber.

CHOMPY said:

that technique has been discovered long ago

oh and its called reverse shell shifting

Click to expand...

He's talking about a HP Fsmash whilst still holding a banana. I dont recall this ever being raised on the boards before.

All characters can use fsmash while holding an item, though it's much more prominently used by Peach, Diddy, and other characters that can hold viable items. Waddle-doos and dees don't count, and I think it's kinda pointless doing a fsmash item charge while holding a hot grenade on Snake.

Anyway, I haven't really even thought about using it on Diddy Kong while holding a banana, but I see reason not to risk it since Squirtle's Fsmash isn't all that great.

Im aware of that canvas. The point is that its the hydroplaned/shift'd fsmash that can go half of FD whils still holding an item. It's not just a normal smash, like every other character.

Whilst I think its situational, it seems like half the people here aren't getting what he's actually talking about.

The problem is that you cannot cancel Fsmash item Charge, because you're forced to hold the charge until you complete it. Generally, that's like, 2-2.5 second charge, I think? So While you travel 1/2 of Final Destination, You're very vulnerable as a state since you can't let go of the charge. Against Diddy Kong who has crazy priority as well as attacks, then I think you might just hit the ground with a dash attack or jab.

As Tcranter said, its the item hold that was my "discovery". I was aware of reverse fsmashing, but while holding an item AND still being able to slide a huge distance, although it may be situational it might still be handy to know. It may be completely useless to some, but for someone else, it might help.

QUIVO said:

ive actually been using that thing with TL bomber.

Click to expand...

first of all, where did you come from Quivo? lol I never expected to see you here.

Next, I wasn't aware that TL could do such a thing. Out of all my time on the TL boards, I've never heard of TL being able to do that.

Since when are you forced to charge the entire smash attack?

Is this some property of smashing with an item that I missed?

If so, then lol. Makes a situational manoeuvre almost impossible to do safely

Nope. You can stop charging at any time, thus stopping your slide completely and unleashing th fsmash on the spot.

I just started playing PT for fun and was reading up on stuff

vermiis said:

Nope. You can stop charging at any time, thus stopping your slide completely and unleashing th fsmash on the spot.

Click to expand...

I thought as much. Goodo.

situationl stuff is broken good in certain situations.
dont knock it until you try it out entirely. in evreysituation and application.

this is something to explore.
good find, lets figure out when we should be using this or when we can use it for our advantage.

For some reason whenever I've thought about this AT I've only been considering the application with a fsmash.

I think we'd get far more use out of it with a Dsmash or Upsmash.

I'm going to play around with it on the weekend.

using items while sliding creates some fun situations in the failing random online brawls..
homerun bat galore.. starting the swing before you pass the opponent and then timing the swing so once you are on the other side of the opponent
BAMMM!

It's also a LOT better than the regular rolling + throwing items to gain speed and distance..
like the OP said..
Mindgames galore.


edit:

tcranter, it also works with dsmash, only less..

I know it works with dsmash. I was saying that in terms of discussion it would be more uesful to talk about it with dsmash because its less punishable.

Wait....what?
It works with dsmash?!
My own AT and I didn't even know that! -_-

Also, a shellshift>diagonal back-down c-stick is itself a mindgame. It looks like a glide toss, but you the item is dropped a short distance from your initial standing point.