Aggressive vs. Defensive - An in depth look into G&W playstyles

Aggressive vs. Defensive
An in depth look into G&W playstyles

Areas in YELLOW still need to be completed. Let's discuss our opinions and get this thing finished. It can easily help out new G&W players as well as the old.


Table of Contents
1) Definitions
2) Strategies
3) Matchups
- 3a) Quick Matchup List
- 3b) In-depth Matchup Discussion
4) Videos
5) Testimonials



1) Definitions

Aggressive * - this style is just basically approaching with bair and just ******. Apply the constant pressure until your opponent dies. This is a very easy style to play, IMO.

Defensive - With a defensive style, G&W is not approaching at all. What forces your opponent to approach is your percent lead and the fact that they don't have a projectile. Defensive is more of a campy style. It only works against a few characters, but it does work well against them.

Hybrid * - It takes some traits from aggressive, some from defensive and adds some new traits. It's a hybrid. Not a combination. We fuse both aggressive and defensive to play hybrid. It's more about waiting around/near your opponent with jumps and bair. It's mostly just looking for openings in your opponent's game.

* Discuss what you think these definitions are. We should come up with a clear definition for each that we can all agree to use when ranking G&W's playstyle against certain characters.



2) Strategies
General strategies with regards to the aggressive/defensive playstyles of G&W.

General Defensive Strategy 1 - by Neb

I think Game & Watch's protective playstyle bases around reflecting approaches, with the overall goal being to ensnare his aggressor into a trap. Baiting and brickwalls play important pieces as they breakdown you and your opponents approach, especial when opposing characters with solid barriers. Also playing sissy, like running away and seizing his flat fingers over the end of a ledge.

Against Metaknight and Marth, or just adversaries who lack projectiles, I like to stay at a 3-4 character distance (a safe interval), then using chef, toss one or two pieces of food at my opponent and watch what they do. Like a cheap imitation of something Sagat or Ryu would do in Street Fighter; baiting with a hadouken, and punishing advances with shoryuken.

Similarly, if my opponent leaps I can intercept anything they do by flinging myself into their body with 'chute's invincibility frames, mocking a dragon punch. Remember if you cancel upb with a special/aerial, you retain your SJ, so don't always commit yourself with nair and dair. Any type of dodge is easily dismissed by charged smashes or lingering hitboxes. This usually leads into a juggle trap. Works fine with uair or nair as well depending on the character and their degree of priority/range.

If your opponent lacks disjointed hitboxes, instead of Upb'ing, you can punish a jump/aerial with pivot fsmash, tipper dsmash, or crossup usmash as these moves will attach to hurtboxes and expand the sweep of your attack. A shield grab, or running pivot grab is also effective and may sometimes coin more damage than a smash by tossing into traps (uthrow juggle, dthrow oki, fthrow/bthrow off stage).

If they shield, you can continue, or poke with bair in order to stab with other objects. They roll toward you, punish with whatever, but if they roll away, just walk up and reset the scenario.

Summary:
Chef 1-2x, punish reaction.
Attack Ground: upb, out-prioritize, walk away, shield game
Attack Air: upb, out-prioritize, crossup
Dodge: lingering hitbox, charge smash, timed attack
Roll Away: reset scenario
Roll Toward: do anything
Shield: poke, reset scenario



3a) Quick Matchup List
A list of all the characters and what playstyle should be used to beat them. For some, it doesn't matter. For others, it's game breaking.

Aggressive *
Toon Link
Bowser
Olimar

Defensive *
Marth
Metaknight
Diddy Kong
Falco
Ice Climbers
Snake
Luigi

Hybrid *
King DeDeDe
Wario


Unsorted *
Donkey Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Kirby
Wolf
Ganon
Sheik
Bowser
Link
Lucario
Rob
Samus
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Sonic
Mario
Yoshi
Peach
Fox
Pikachu
Pit
Zelda
Ness
Lucas
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff

* This is just a rough list, we need to discuss and figure where each character belows. Also we should take into consideration what happens when you/opponent has the "percent lead" and time is of the essence.



3b) In-depth Matchup Discussion
I also want to try and have a description for why each character belongs in a certain category. Here is where that goes. Please contribute to why certain playstyles should be used agaisnt certain characters.

Toon Link
The more aggressive, the less likely projectiles can interfere with your game.

Bowser
All of your moves out-range or out-prioritize Bowser's moveset.

Olimar
Keeping pressure in this match is golden. The less pikmin Olimar has, the better.

Diddy Kong
lou4222 says: I have tons and tons of matchup experience against Diddy Kong. I play against AlphaZealot all of the time and the main thing that Ive learned is patience. As long as you arent playing on FD you can be patient. For example when Diddy has two bananas out jump around on platforms. When one of the bananas disappears then you can make your move. If they have one banana out you cant get banana locked and his options are much more limited. Sure you wills till get hit every now and again but I have found it easy to combo diddy. Turtle and Nair are incredibly effective and combo well. Once you lose control over diddy and he gets his bananas out again, go back to the platforms and wait for one to disappear I hope that helps. Just be patient!

Luigi
Against Luigi it's best to play defensively. He can't approach you if you downtilt, fair, or nair. Downtilt also beats fireballs. If you get caught up in one of his combos you can up-b for safety. Try to avoid hits as best as possible, because Luigi can kill you at ridiculously low percents with his shoryuken.

King DeDeDe
The hybrid playstyle seems to work best in this matchup. It only makes sense, have to play defensively on the ground and aggressive in the air with N-Air.

Wario
Hybrid is best for wario. You definitely cant just be defensive against wario because he can be safe on so many of his poke moves and punish you trying to punish him. Also his shield pressure game is solid. His aerial mobility will allow him to punish most whiffed attempts, and an SDI'ed turtle will get you punished everytime. If done properly "turtle keep-away" works well. But this can also get you in trouble as it did with me. I spaced a few turtles poorly and ate his forward smash. IMO this match up is 50/50 yet incredibly hard to play. Both play styles work for it, but if you are super aggressive you better be careful.



4) Videos
A collection of videos to visually show the effects of a certain playstyle vs different characters.

Snake: Defensive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMs80f6dOg - UTD Zac vs. Ice on Lylat Cruise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boVqr8gBKvI - UTD Zac vs. Ice on Yoshi's Island

Metaknight: Defensive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=492NiHHben4 - UTD Zac vs. Dojo on Green Greens

Toon Link: Aggressive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBLhwGTwZvE Neb vs. Pitru on Final Destination

* Think you have a video that proves a point? Post and I'll add it.


5) Testimonials

lou4222 said:

I have been a Game and Watch main for several months now and the main thing I have realized is that I need to sometimes play aggressive and sometimes play defensive in certain matchups. I regularly get to play against Quivo ( one of the best Toon Links around) and I have to be unbelievably aggressive here or I will just get pummeled with projectiles. It is important to be the aggressor with Turtles, Nair etc. I also always get to play against Alphazealot ( a very good Diddy) and I am defensive to the point where it is almost boring.

But as some of the other players said it is a fine mix. Play defensively until you find your openning. Once you attack attack hard and get off some combos. The more you play and the more matchup experience you gain, you will quickly understand which characters call for aggressive and defensive styles of play.

Click to expand...

lou4222 said:

When I play Diddys I seriously sit on plats until they lose one of their bananas. When they try to throw another one I usually try t intercept it and throw it off the stage. If they have one banana out that is when you go aggressive. Otherwise you will get banana locked to oblivion

Opinions on Defensive matchups:
ICs(for obvious reasons) until you split them up and then you absolute go crazy

Opinions on Aggressive matchups:
Toon Link(otherwise projectiles destroy you)
Bowser(every move you have destroys him)

I just think since we have the lightest character in the game we HAVE to play defensively a great amount of the time. Every percent we rack up means so much more to GW mains than heavies.

Click to expand...

I know this is a little messy, but I didn't have much to work with. A few G&W decided to start a discussion about the playstyles of G&W and I thought I'd jump on the task of bringing the discussion to everyone.

Discuss!

i totally agree going defensive against snake in your vid
but the only problem i see is keeping up that flow and being that patient lol

your bound to get hit by a grenade sometime

but i really liked how you played in the corneria vid
nice job on the stage striking lol

There's a 4th style:

DMG style.

It's really gay lol.

Aka "DMG's Game of Tag".

Tag implies that I get hit.

It's more like a hit and run.

For the purposes of this thread do you want to have a starting point? Or should we just bring something up and have the discussion flow from there?

This thread is a great idea and should really advance the GW game!

lou4222 said:

For the purposes of this thread do you want to have a starting point? Or should we just bring something up and have the discussion flow from there?

This thread is a great idea and should really advance the GW game!

Click to expand...

Bring up whatever you want that isn't finish. If you see something conflicting with your views, then mention that. I'll put a marker next to things being discussed so people will know whats going on.

For example, you don't agree that the Toon Link matchup should be played with an aggressive style, you like playing defensively. I would then mark Toon Link as "Currently being discussed" and people can post there opinions about that. Or they can continue bringing up new opinions.

It's sounds a little messy, but I'll be reading all of them to ensure we get an accurate list. I want to this to improve my G&W game just as much as anyone else.

just wondering, why would you be aggressive against the character with the best out of shield game in the game? being aggressive against bowser as anyone who isn't named ddd will get you *****, it's much better to stay the hell away from him and force him to rely on his unsafe approaches

itsthebigfoot said:

just wondering, why would you be aggressive against the character with the best out of shield game in the game? being aggressive against bowser as anyone who isn't named ddd will get you *****, it's much better to stay the hell away from him and force him to rely on his unsafe approaches

Click to expand...

In my experience with the matchup (maybe I havnt played the best Bowsers) its incredibly easy to pressure his shield. It seems like two properly spaced turtles destroy the shield and you can run off a combo worth 40 percent. I think if well spaced, an aggressive play style is fine. There just is nothing Bowser can do to escape GWs range. Like I said maybe the Bowsers I have played are sub par, but the matchup seems helpless for them lol.

• A video demonstration for aggressive playstyle versus Toon Link - Click

A Defensive Strategy

I think Game & Watch's protective playstyle bases around reflecting approaches, with the overall goal being to ensnare his aggressor into a trap. Baiting and brickwalls play important pieces as they breakdown you and your opponents approach, especial when opposing characters with solid barriers. Or running away to seize your flat fingers over the end of a ledge, and using the stage placement to turtle.

Against Metaknight and Marth, or just adversaries who lack projectiles, I like to stay at a 3-4 character distance (a safe interval), then using chef, toss one or two pieces of food at my opponent and watch what they do. Like a cheap imitation of something Sagat or Ryu would do in Street Fighter; baiting with a hadouken, and punishing advances with shoryuken.

Similarly, if my opponent leaps I can intercept anything they do by flinging myself into their body with 'chute's invincibility frames, mocking a dragon punch. Remember if you cancel upb with a special/aerial, you retain your SJ, so don't always commit yourself with nair and dair. Any type of dodge is easily dismissed by charged smashes or lingering hitboxes. This usually leads into a juggle trap. Works fine with uair or nair as well depending on the character and their degree of priority/range.

If your opponent lacks disjointed hitboxes, instead of Upb'ing, you can punish a jump/aerial with pivot fsmash, tipper dsmash, or crossup usmash as these moves will attach to hurtboxes and expand the sweep of your attack. A shield grab, or running pivot grab is also effective and may sometimes coin more damage than a smash by tossing into traps (uthrow juggle, dthrow oki, fthrow/bthrow off stage).

If they shield, you can continue, or poke with bair in order to shield stab with other objects. They roll toward you, punish with whatever, but if they roll away, just walk up and reset the scenario.

TL;DR

Chef 1-2x, punish reaction.

Attack Ground: upb away, out-prioritize, walk away, shield game
Attack Air: upb, out-prioritize, crossup
Dodge: lingering hitbox, charge smash, timed attack
Roll Away: reset
Roll Toward: anything
Shield: poke, reset

So you made the thread, with my explanations,lol. Cool. Nice to see that you generally agree with me.

Ok, first we really do need to define our different playstyles. There's a fine line between aggressive and defensive, but when does a patient playstyle become a defensive one?

Defensive and patient seem really similar, but in reality are different.

The defensive style focuses much more on being more campy. This requires you to gain the percent advantage before you can start being defensive. Once you do, just do what Neb's post said to do, as he sums it up quite nicely. I feel like dtilt would also be a viable option in the defensive style to deflect some ground aproaches from tilts, dash attacks and grabs.

Patient on the other hand is not campy. Really all you do is jump around your oponent with UpB and jumps until they make a mistake. This is really a playstyle to punish your oponent. This works most against characters that are hard to approach. Key being Snake.

Patient and defenstive seem the same, but defensive is more capable than patient. But defensive only works on oponents that can't outcamp you. Snake can outcamp you, so being defensive doesn't work. You play patiently because even though it isn't as effective, it works on all oponents.

Patient can be played on all characters. Aggresive can only be played on certain characters that tend to have bad OoS options, have bad priority or are slow. Defensive works on characters that have no projectiles and bad range.

We ask the question of whether or not we can play aggresive or defensive. If we can't play either, then we would resort to patient.

Also, defensive against MK, patient against Snake and aggresive against DDD (space bair). IMO

Neb, exactly how do you UpB an oponent's ground aproach? If Marth walks up and ftilts, how do I hit him with UpB if he spaces well? Can UpB really curve at such an angle to hit him? I'm not really understanding.

Draconoa44 said:

Neb, exactly how do you UpB an oponent's ground aproach? If Marth walks up and ftilts, how do I hit him with UpB if he spaces well? Can UpB really curve at such an angle to hit him? I'm not really understanding.

Click to expand...

It depends. In my post I'm referring to using upb as a bail-out maneuver, a way to safely reset the neutral state. The only way you can hit a grounded opponent with upb is if their hurtbox is touching you. In your situation you'd have to be really close to Marth, and block his unsafe ftilt, then angle upb into his body.

Neb said:

It depends. In my post I'm referring to using upb as a bail-out maneuver, a way to safely reset the neutral state. The only way you can hit a grounded opponent with upb is if their hurtbox is touching you. In your situation you'd have to be really close to Marth, and block his unsafe ftilt, then angle upb into his body.

Click to expand...

Ok, that's what I thought. Looking over your post again, I misread the tldr;, lol. But the actual post does explain it well.

On the subject of using up-Bing as a way to hit somebody on the ground, it seems to work a lot on Snake for me, partly because Snake is so tall that he tends to just get in the way of the up-b more than anything else. It makes using up-b to get out of a ftilt a possible counter if he doesn't space properly because of the invincibility frames and such.

I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between defensive and patient playstyles... because at their core they both rely on your opponent screwing up somehow and then using the opening to attack (rather than creating an opening yourself with a bair or something in a more aggressive playstyle). Maybe the right term isn't patience but evasiveness, where instead of just going with a move that has a higher priority to hit your opponent out of the approach (which seems to be the emphasis for the protective style if I'm reading right), evasive seems using G&W's vertical mobility to jump all over the place and the punishment is based more on hitting during lag after a failed attack rather than during the attack. It just feels like they're just two facets of the same general strategy of being defensive, but then again I'm probably just missing a nuance somewhere.

Maybe at least we should come up with a name other than patience, because all defensive strategies rely on patience. I'm having a hard time imagining somebody playing defensively and impatiently at the same time.

But other than me getting caught up in some semantics that don't even matter in the long run for the goal of the topic, I'm really interested in where this thread is going and what others have to say.

Ghost Pikmin said:

On the subject of using up-Bing as a way to hit somebody on the ground, it seems to work a lot on Snake for me, partly because Snake is so tall that he tends to just get in the way of the up-b more than anything else. It makes using up-b to get out of a ftilt a possible counter if he doesn't space properly because of the invincibility frames and such.

I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between defensive and patient playstyles... because at their core they both rely on your opponent screwing up somehow and then using the opening to attack (rather than creating an opening yourself with a bair or something in a more aggressive playstyle). Maybe the right term isn't patience but evasiveness, where instead of just going with a move that has a higher priority to hit your opponent out of the approach (which seems to be the emphasis for the protective style if I'm reading right), evasive seems using G&W's vertical mobility to jump all over the place and the punishment is based more on hitting during lag after a failed attack rather than during the attack. It just feels like they're just two facets of the same general strategy of being defensive, but then again I'm probably just missing a nuance somewhere.

Maybe at least we should come up with a name other than patience, because all defensive strategies rely on patience. I'm having a hard time imagining somebody playing defensively and impatiently at the same time.

But other than me getting caught up in some semantics that don't even matter in the long run for the goal of the topic, I'm really interested in where this thread is going and what others have to say.

Click to expand...

Well, you could be right on how patient isn't the correct term. Evasive does sound more fitting as that's what G&W is really doing.

The main difference between defensive and patience/evasiveness is how pressure is being put onto the opponent. With a defensive style, G&W is not approaching at all. What forces your opponent to approach is your percent lead and the fact that they don't have a projectile. Defensive is more of a campy style. It only works against a few characters, but it does work well against them.

Patience/evasiveness on the other hand isn't really forcing the opponent to approach. They are using their moves to keep us out of their zone while we're just trying to find an opening to get in. The only danger or pressure the opponent feels is of the fact that if they make a mistake, we're going in to ****.

That's more or less the difference.

Defensive is camping

Patient/evasive is punishing

Aggressive is ******

I'm not agreeing completely to the definition. But why not just call patient/evasive, hybrid, as in a combination of both aggressive and defensive, a neutral. I think its just playing safe, but not completely giving away that edge.

Aggressive. Hybrid. Defensive.

Y/N?

Names... Aggressive, Evasive, Defensive. You could call it Aggressive Evasive (AE) too.

Hybrid's a fine name for the style.

And nice thing with the colors.

Against Luigi it's best to play defensively. He can't approach you if you downtilt, fair, or nair. Downtilt also beats fireballs. If you get caught up in one of his combos you can up-b for safety. Try to avoid hits as best as possible, because Luigi can kill you at ridiculously low percents with his shoryuken. I'm not absolutely positive, but I think down-tilt clinks with luigi's down-b, so be sure to be fast on a follow up.

I'm going Hybrid against DDD now. It only makes sense, he's a hybrid of IC's and Kirby.

Have to play defensively on the ground, and aggressive in the air with N-Air.

Updated OP with the new Aggressive / Hybrid / Defensive words.

How would GaW approach ZSS?

Lightning Tiger, you would be better of asking questions in the Q&A.

Yesterday I went to a tourney, and I got much better. It was good.

But anyway, in a friendly against a fox, I played my first stock defensively. I got done in pretty badly. Next I went patiently, I did better but still lost the stock. On my third stock he still had all three stocks . I started playing really aggressively with bair and I got him down to his last stock. I don't have experience in this matchup, but I think that it requires an aggressive game. G&W's defensive game is too slow against Fox, but he doesn't have many options against bair.

And hybrid is not playing aggressively in some parts of the matchup and defensively in others. It's more about waiting around/near your opponent with jumps and bair. It's mostly just looking for openings in your opponent's game. IT's the middle ground between aggressive and defensive. But we need a more congenial definition for the community.

Draconoa44 said:

Lightning Tiger, you would be better of asking questions in the Q&A.

Yesterday I went to a tourney, and I got much better. It was good.

But anyway, in a friendly against a fox, I played my first stock defensively. I got done in pretty badly. Next I went patiently, I did better but still lost the stock. On my third stock he still had all three stocks . I started playing really aggressively with bair and I got him down to his last stock. I don't have experience in this matchup, but I think that it requires an aggressive game. G&W's defensive game is too slow against Fox, but he doesn't have many options against bair.

And hybrid is not playing aggressively in some parts of the matchup and defensively in others. It's more about waiting around/near your opponent with jumps and bair. It's mostly just looking for openings in your opponent's game. IT's the middle ground between aggressive and defensive. But we need a more congenial definition for the community.

Click to expand...

Sorry but could you give me the link for the Q&A. I have no idea where it is.

It's the first thread listed on the G&W boards.

Personally me, I play super gay defensively, and I shieldcamp a lot. G&W has a good out of shield game with just F-air and Up-B alone.

I'd like to think that I spam F-air and Up-smash more than most G&W players. F-air is really underestimated on stage as a damage dealer sometimes. It's better than B-air in the sense it won't get SDIed.

itsthebigfoot said:

just wondering, why would you be aggressive against the character with the best out of shield game in the game? being aggressive against bowser as anyone who isn't named ddd will get you *****, it's much better to stay the hell away from him and force him to rely on his unsafe approaches

Click to expand...

He doesn't have the best out of shield game first of all. He has one of the best out of shield options, but not overall the best out of shield games. THe best out of shield game goes to Metaknight, Snake, and DDD.

Bowser's up-B has lame range, so you can outspace it and pressure his shield a ton.

Once you get a hit in, he dies easily due to his recovery sucking and due to being pretty easy for G&W to juggle. Once he's offstage, he really shouldn't make it back without taking significant damage at least.

Against Wario you should play defensively. I played against a Wario at a smashfest on friday and all I did was up-b out of shield and Wario couldn't do anything lawl.

Anyway, as to not let this good thread die, what playstyle should you play agasint MK?

Should it be aggressive, defensive, or hybrid?

I believe that it should be defensive.

G&W's defensive game can cover MK's approaches if you have the correct timing and prediction. Dash attack and grab are beat by dtilt. Fairs are beat by a number of options, depending on how the MK spaces and uses his fairs. If he misspaces it and gets in close to you, you might be able to use a dtilt. Spaced fairs can be shielded, or you could perhaps angle an UpB toward them. Fullhop fairs would be stopped by chef. Tornado is stopped by fsmash and dsmash when spaced correctly.

That's basically what I think. How should we play against MK?

I've played against one good MK but it was 6:00 in the morning so I don't know how legit the matches were. I did best when I threw out back airs to stop his approach, and then use hit and run tactics to deal damage. I think the whole match is revolved around waiting for openings and gradually dealing damage while being as safe as possible. You have to take complete advantage whenever MK uses one of his specials, because that is the time you can hurt him the most. I think all the G&W's know about using up-air on tornado and shuttle loop, so you can try your luck for a judgment 9 or just charged smash. If the MK is below you and uses shuttle loop you can beat it out with dair.

Try not to abuse the up-air on the tornado too much, because then the MK might stop using it completely. It's probably best to only use it when MK is around 80% so you can kill him.

I'd say this matchup needs to be played mostly patiently with a mix of defensive.

MK should never really tornado against G&W. A lot of the time G&W just flies out after taking 3 damage because of his weight, and G&W can up B the tornado to blow MK high into the air, sending him in freefall.

If MK focuses his strategy against G&W using tilts, defensive Fsmash, and up B, G&W is hard pressed to get inside MK.

I find it surprising that nobody has included stages when talking about their strategies/play styles. I think Battlefield, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise, Halberd, Brinstar, and maybe other stages should be discussed.

Then there is a different play style for team doubles. But I don't think we should talk about that yet.

BBQ° said:

Against Wario you should play defensively. I played against a Wario at a smashfest on friday and all I did was up-b out of shield and Wario couldn't do anything lawl.

Click to expand...

You should never base something off a single experience. A better player will punish your up-b OoS with something nasty.

You definitely cant just be defensive against wario because he can be safe on so many of his poke moves and punish you trying to punish him. Also his shield pressure game is solid.

Hybrid is best for wario.

I think some characters have a certain playstyle (Snake) that g&w must stick to in order to be successful, but in most cases it all depends on stage position and the situation (stock percents, on the ledge and such) to determine how you should play.

Then again, I haven't fully thought about it.

ADMJP said:

You should never base something off a single experience. A better player will punish your up-b OoS with something nasty.

Click to expand...

Other than with downB, how would Wario punish OoS upB?

Hylian said:

Double jump up air?

PhantomX has done it several times to me, I don't really like sitting in my shield ever against his wario. I just make walls with nair.

Click to expand...

Wow this sucks. I would have thought that there would be enough time to float/DI away or even do an aerial.

Wario is a frustrating character to play against. There is an up and coming wario here in Ohio that I lost to in tourney two weeks ago. I lost because I died twice from super armored forward smashes at 85%. I think that the next time I play him will be different because I wont be a noob and be predictable with my attacks.

I would say wario is more of a neutral play style. If done properly turtle keep away works well. But this can also get you in trouble as it did with me. I spaced a few turtles poorly and ate his forward smash. IMO this match up is 50/50 yet incredibly hard to play. Both play styles work for it, but if you are super aggressive you better be careful.

The one character i have so much trouble with is olimar... I cant approach without being punished some times. hylian and/or Zac i want you guys to try playing errors olimar. That character just ***** me real bad. Its one of the very few That i cant handle with GW. Really appreciate a lot more detail on that match up. I cant even dtilt pikmin how everyone says so. I have been trying to say this on the boards so many times but i often get ignored or just get some easy explanation but i dont think its that simple. Zac you know I am not that bad. So really i need help

lou4222 said:

Wario is a frustrating character to play against. There is an up and coming wario here in Ohio that I lost to in tourney two weeks ago. I lost because I died twice from super armored forward smashes at 85%. I think that the next time I play him will be different because I wont be a noob and be predictable with my attacks.

I would say wario is more of a neutral play style. If done properly turtle keep away works well. But this can also get you in trouble as it did with me. I spaced a few turtles poorly and ate his forward smash. IMO this match up is 50/50 yet incredibly hard to play. Both play styles work for it, but if you are super aggressive you better be careful.

Click to expand...

Fsmashes are a pain, you just have to be more choosy with the attacks you throw out, and when. His aerial mobility will allow him to punish most whiffed attempts, and an SDI'ed turtle will get you punished everytime.

Wario is definitely a "hybrid matchup" I think because He will probably air camp you, and you can either approach or camp. either way works. Play offensive when they are on the ground. go defense when he goes ariel, dair combos are a pain. If only G&W had a guaranteed air release :/


AND with Metaknight it definitely depends on the type of metaknight your playing, if you play one that just sits back and ftilts and up-b your approach you wanna play defensive.

If you play one thats really agressive you want to be agressive to because he'll leave himself open alot to Bair and Dair.