The Character Statistics Thread

Well, I intend this to be THE thread for character statistics . For so long I looked for something like this, and didn't find it. There was some threads with many info , but there is no a thread with all of the info. And there are still statistics to be put in here. Something like this does not exist on the internet. For now I am putting what I have found. This thread is also for commenting, giving impressions and discussing about how these stats impact on the game or in your main choice, etc.

Grab range!
Author: Bellioes

Method:
1. I created a custom stage with a horizontal platform made of blocks and then a wall on the left-hand side made of blocks. If you look closely at the horizontal blocks, you can see that along the top, there are little marks. I realized they were perfect for making measurements (It looks almost like a ruler )

2. I used Mario as a control. I would roll left against the wall so that he was fas ar left as possible. This was also to make sure that Mario always started at the same spot.

3. I then proceeded to measure the furthest distance a character could be before he could no longer reach Mario with a STANDING grab. I started measuring from the characters ARM except for characters like ROB who would skew the data cause of how far their arms are from their body. In those cases, I used the point on their body closest to Mario as the starting point of the measurement.

I know there are a couple things that could change this data such as taller characters grab range being shorter than they should but because of how small these changes would be, I realized they wouldnt change the order that much if any at all and didnt worry too much about these small discrepancies.
Here are the results:

Tether Grabs (Grabs disjointed from the character)
1.Olimars Blue Pikmin 10.1
2.Olimars White Pikmin 10.0
3.ZSS 9.75
Olimars Red Pikmin 9.75
5.Olimars Yellow Pikmin 9.6
6.Samus 9.2- 4 (I couldnt really tell so I took the range)
7.Link 8.25
8. Olimars Purple Pikmin 7.5
9. Lucas 7.25
10. Toon Link 7
11. Yoshi 6.75
12. Ivysaur 6.1

Non-tether grabs
*Note: None of these characters grabs were longer than the tether-grabbers although DDD came very close to surpassing Ivysaur.

13. DDD 6
14.Charzard 5.5
15. Zelda 5.3
16. Donkey Kong 5.1
17. Squirtle 5
18. Marth 4.75
Diddy 4.75
Snake 4.75
21. Kirby 4.5
ROB 4.5
23. Peach 4.25
Fox 4.25
Falco 4.25
Ness 4.25
27. Wario 4.1
28.Bowser 4
Pit 4
MK 4
Jigglypuff 4
Ike 4
Sonic 4
34. Pika 3.9
Sheik 3.9
36. Lucario 3.75
37.Wolf 3.5
ICs 3.5
Mario 3.5
Luigi 3.5
G&W 3.5
42. Captain Falcon 3.25
43. Ganon 2.75



Grab speed frame data

Source = http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234915
Author: Amazing Ampharos
Averages and Ordering: Me
Ordering was considering pivot grab to be less often than the others.

This is the first frame on which the grabs hit for the whole cast. It should be handy to figure out which of your grabs are best and how they compare to other characters.

Character: Standing grab, Running Grab, Pivot Grab, Average
Ness: 6, 8, 6 -> 6.67
Sheik: 6, 7, 8 -> 7
Meta Knight: 6, 8, 7 -> 7
Ice Climbers: 6, 8, 8 -> 7.33
King Dedede: 6, 9, 7 -> 7.33
Lucario: 6, 8, 9 -> 7.67
Squirtle: 6, 8, 9 -> 7.67
Diddy Kong: 6, 10, 8 -> 8
Charizard: 6, 8, 10 -> 8
Wario: 6, 10, 8 -> 8
Peach: 6, 6, 13 -> 8.33
R.O.B.: 6, 9, 10 8.33
Pit: 6, 10, 9 -> 8.33
Kirby: 6, 10, 10 -> 8.67
Jigglypuff: 6, 10, 10 -> 8.67
Fox: 6, 11, 9 -> 8.67
Falco: 6, 11, 9 -> 8.67
Wolf: 6, 11, 9 -> 8.67
Ganondorf: 7, 11, 10 -> 9.33
Bowser: 9, 10, 9 -> 9.33
Donkey Kong: 8, 10, 10 -> 9.33
Mario: 6, 12, 11 -> 9.67
Luigi: 6, 12, 11 -> 9.67
Zelda: 12, 11, 14 -> 12.33
Yoshi: 17, 11, 10 -> 12.67
Link: 12, 14, 15 -> 13.67
Toon Link: 12, 14, 15 -> 13.67
Zero Suit Samus: 16, 16, 16 -> 16
Samus: 17, 17, 19 -> 17.67

I might update this with durations (on whiff) and pummel data later. <-- By the author


Walking Speed List
Author: Mew2King
Source: http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-42222051&pid=928518

224 Fox/Marth (Fox Accel better, Marth top speed better)
+12
236 Sonic
+11
247 Sheik
+1
248 ZSS
+3
251 Falco
+1
252 Wolf
+8
260 Pikachu
+1
261 Diddy
+2
263 Metaknight
+4
267 Link/Toon Link (Link Accel better, Toon Link top speed better)
+2
269 Squirtle
+2
271 DK
+1
270 Pit
+9
279 Yoshi
+11
290 ROB
+3
293 GW/Mario
+5
298 Luigi
+3
301 Samus
+9
310 Ivysaur
+7
317 Lucario
+15
332 ICs
+2
334 Kirby
+6
340 DDD
+17
357 Olimar
+7
364 Ike
+3
367 Peach
+3
370 Ness
+2
372 C.Falcon
+3
375 Snake/Wario (Snake Accel better, Wario top speed better)
+13
388 Lucas
+5
393 Zelda
+15
408 Bowser
+30
438 Ganondorf
+11
449 Jigglypuff
+12
461 Charizard (same top speed as Jiggs, WAY slower acceleration)

Fox Acceleration > Marth, Marth top speed > Fox
Falco Accel > Wolf, Wolf top speed > Falco
Sheik Accel > ZSS, ZSS top speed > Sheik
Pikachu Accel > Diddy, Diddy top speed > Pikachu
Sheik Accel WAY > Wolf (as shown, also same top speed)
Metaknight Accel > Toon Link (as shown, also same top speed)
Link Accel > Toon Link, Toon Link top speed > Link
Pit Accel > DK, DK top speed > Pit
ROB Accel > Mario(=GW) (as shown, also same top speed)
Samus Accel WAY > Ivysaur (as shown, also same top speed)
Kirby Accel > DDD (as shown, also same top speed)
Peach Accel > Ness (as shown, also same top speed)
C.Falcon Accel > Wario (as shown, also same top speed)
Snake Accel > Wario, Wario top speed > Snake
Zelda Accel > Bowser (as shown, also same top speed)
Jiggs Accel WAY > Charizard (as shown, also same top speed)
the warthog from Bridge of Elden runs slightly faster than ZSS walks

-----


Jump height!
The same night I started this thread I began my jump height test. To do it I made a custom stage. I used a ramp and jumped from beneath. The far in blocks I could jump and stand on the ramp would measure my jumping range. It was a bit hard to test this accurately so I will run some more tests on this soon. What I have for now is this:

Metaknight 6.3
Kirby 6.2
Jiggly 6.0
DDD 5.3
Pit 4.9
Falco 4.8
Yoshi 4.6
ZSSamus 4.4
Sheik 4.3
Diddy/Ness/Fox 4.0
Luigi/ToonLink/G&W 3.9
Rob 3.8
Donkey Kong/Lucas 3.6
Bowser/Charizard/Squirtle/IC 3.5
Mario/Sonic 3.4
Olimar/C. Falcon/Pika/Lucario 3.3
Wario/Samus 3.2
Wolf/Ivysaur 3.0
Zelda/Marth 2.9
Link 2.8
Snake/Ganon 2.7
Ike 2.6
Peach 2.4


The next two charts are courtesy of Mr. Silver.
Original Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162546

Weight:

This one was pretty simple to figure out since it’s the same as it was in Melee. The base knock back of a move is not affected by weight. So this only leaves the incremental knock back with damage. By calculating this incremental knock back against different characters and comparing it to the value I found for Mario I made the following weight table:

Bowser 1.111
Donkey Kong 1.091
Snake 1.076
Dedede 1.071
Charizard 1.061
Ganondorf 1.056
Samus 1.051
Yoshi 1.045
Wario 1.045
R.O.B. 1.040
Ike 1.035
Captain Falcon 1.030
Link 1.030
Wolf 1.020
Lucario 1.010
Ivysaur 1.010
Mario 1
Luigi 0.995
Sonic 0.985
Ness 0.980
Pit 0.980
Lucas 0.980
Diddy Kong 0.975
Toon Link 0.970
Ice Climber 0.970
Peach 0.960
Marth 0.944
Sheik 0.935
Zelda 0.935
Falco 0.919
Olimar 0.919
Zero Suit Samus 0.914
Fox 0.910
Pikachu 0.904
Meta Knight 0.904
Kirby 0.899
Squirtle 0.884
Mr. Game & Watch 0.884
Jigglypuff 0.849

The numbers in this table show the weight of a character compared to Mario, so Bowser is 1.111 times as heavy as Mario, Jigglypuff is 0.849 times as heavy as Mario. This table has proved to be 100% consistent with all moves I’ve tested.


Fall speed:

As I already said, base knock back is not affected by the weight of a character. However, different characters still have different base knock back for the same move. Upon further testing I found that this seemed to be related to the fall speed of characters. With characters like Jiggly and Samus having a low base knock back and characters like Fox and Wolf having a high base knock back. My theory is that this was added to account for the increased susceptibility that fast falling characters have to combos. I also found that the amount by which the base knock back for characters differs is not the same for all moves. For weaker moves it’s the same, but for stronger moves it seems to differ a lot. To account for this I took Ike’s fully charged forward Smash as a bench mark and assigned it a value of 100 for the deviation of its base knock back per character. This number is purely arbitrary but it does allow me to make a list to compare fall speed. This gave me the following list. Again I took Mario as a benchmark, hence he has a value of “0”.

Jigglypuff -0.78
Samus -0.54
Olimar -0.47
Kirby -0.44
Lucario -0.40
Peach -0.37
Luigi -0.32
R.O.B. -0.32
Zelda -0.26
Marth -0.25
Toon Link -0.16
Ivysaur -0.16
Ness -0.12
Yoshi -0.05
Pit 0.00
Mario 0
Mr. Game & Watch 0.01
Ice Climber 0.07
Snake 0.16
Donkey Kong 0.20
Ike 0.28
Dedede 0.29
Wario 0.30
Charizard 0.33
Sonic 0.33
Pikachu 0.40
Zero Suit Samus 0.44
Link 0.46
Lucas 0.49
Diddy Kong 0.55
Meta Knight 0.68
Bowser 0.91
Ganondorf 0.91
Captain Falcon 0.92
Squirtle 1.05
Falco 1.23
Wolf 1.84
Sheik 2.21
Fox 3.41

It should be noted that these numbers shouldn’t be takes as absolute values. They show how much a character deviates from Mario. So you can’t say “Fox falls 3 times as fast as Squirtle” but you can say “The difference between Fox and Mario is 3 times larger then the difference between Squirtle and Mario”.



Running Speed Ranking
From fastest to slowest

1. Sonic
2. Captain Falcon
3. Fox
4. Sheik / Zero Suit Samus
6. Metaknight
7. Charizard
8. Pikachu
9. Marth / Diddy Kong
11. Yoshi
12. Toon Link
13. Donkey Kong
14. Pit
15. Mr. Game & Watch
16. Bowser
17. Mario / Lucas / Ivysaur / ROB
21. Samus / Lucario
23. Falco
24. Ness / Ice Climbers / Olimar / Wolf
28. Kirby / Squirtle / Ike
31. Luigi / Peach / Wario / Snake
35. Link
36. Zelda / Dedede
38. Ganondorf
39. Jigglypuff


Character - Horizontal Air Speed
Original Source: http://smashlovers.com/brawl/?p=38
(Blocks per second).

"S Class"
Yoshi - 4.04
Jigglypuff - 3.87
Wario - 3.71
Wolf - 3.63
Captain Falcon - 3.63

"A Class"
Sonic - 3.36
Donkey Kong - 3.36
Lucas - 3.30
Bowser - 3.30
Squirtle - 3.27
Mr. Game & Watch - 3.24
Marth - 3.24

"B Class"
Zero Suit Samus - 3.13
Charizard - 3.07
Zelda - 3.02
Samus - 2.97
Lucario - 2.95
Ness - 2.92
Mario - 2.92

"C Class"
Snake - 2.88
Toon Link - 2.83
Ike - 2.83
Pikachu - 2.74
Peach - 2.74
R.O.B. - 2.70
Pit - 2.70
Fox - 2.70
Falco - 2.70

"D Class"
Ganondorf - 2.62
Kirby - 2.59
Sheik - 2.57
Olimar - 2.55
Diddy Kong - 2.50
Link - 2.45

"F Class"
Meta Knight - 2.35
Ivysaur - 2.32
Ice Climbers - 2.32
Luigi - 2.29
King Dedede - 2.10




Dodges and Rolls duration and invincibility
From K Prime
Original Source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510&highlight=dodge+roll+frame+data

How to read this:
2-20 / 25 Mario
Invincibility duration
Total number of frames

Spot Dodge

2-20 / 22 Link
2-20 / 22 Pikachu
2-20 / 22 Falco
2-20 / 22 Yoshi
2-20 / 22 Toon Link
2-20 / 24 Marth

2-20 / 25 Mario
2-20 / 25 Samus
2-20 / 25 Zero Suit Samus
2-20 / 25 Kirby
2-20 / 25 Fox
2-20 / 25 Game & Watch
2-20 / 25 Luigi
2-20 / 25 Diddy
2-20 / 25 Zelda
2-20 / 25 Sheik
2-20 / 25 Pit
2-20 / 25 Metaknight
2-20 / 25 Squirtle
2-20 / 25 Ivysaur
2-20 / 25 Charizard
2-20 / 25 Ike
2-20 / 25 Snake
2-20 / 25 Peach
2-20 / 25 Ganondorf
2-20 / 25 Ice Climbers
2-20 / 25 Wolf
2-20 / 25 Lucario
2-20 / 25 Ness
2-20 / 25 Sonic
2-20 / 25 Wario
2-20 / 25 R.O.B
2-20 / 25 Captain Falcon
2-20 / 25 Lucas

3-20 / 25 Olimar
3-16 / 25 Jigglypuff
2-20 / 27 King Dedede
2-23 / 30 Donkey Kong
3-24 / 32 Bowser



Back Roll

4-19 / 27 Lucario
4-19 / 29 Diddy
4-19 / 29 Squirtle

4-20 / 31 Kirby
4-19 / 31 Donkey Kong
4-19 / 31 Fox
4-19 / 31 Pikachu
4-19 / 31 Luigi
4-19 / 31 Zelda
4-19 / 31 Sheik
4-19 / 31 Falco
4-19 / 31 Lucas
4-19 / 31 Wolf
4-19 / 31 Ness
4-19 / 31 Sonic
4-19 / 31 Ganondorf
4-19 / 31 Ice Climbers
4-19 / 31 Captain Falcon
5-20 / 31 Peach

4-19 / 32 Jigglypuff
4-19 / 32 Mario
4-19 / 32 King Dedede
4-19 / 32 Ivysaur
4-19 / 32 Olimar
4-17 / 32 Pit

4-19 / 33 Snake
4-12 / 33 Metaknight
4-21 / 34 R.O.B
4-23 / 35 Marth
4-19 / 35 G&W
4-19 / 36 Charizard

4-21 / 37 Wario
4-19 / 37 Ike
4-19 / 37 Link
4-19 / 37 Zero Suit Samus
4-19 / 37 Yoshi
4-19 / 37 Toon Link
5-20 / 39 Bowser
4-23 / 44 Samus


Foward Roll

5-12 / 23 Metaknight
4-19 / 27 Lucario
4-17 / 27 Pit
4-15 / 27 Zero Suit Samus
4-19 / 29 Diddy
4-19 / 29 Squirtle

4-20 / 31 Kirby
4-19 / 31 Donkey Kong
4-19 / 31 Fox
4-19 / 31 Pikachu
4-19 / 31 Luigi
4-19 / 31 Zelda
4-19 / 31 Sheik
4-19 / 31 Falco
4-19 / 31 Peach
4-19 / 31 Ganondorf
4-19 / 31 Ice Climbers
4-19 / 31 Wolf
4-19 / 31 Ness
4-19 / 31 Sonic
4-19 / 31 Captain Falcon
4-19 / 31 Lucas

3-19 / 32 Jigglypuff
4-19 / 32 Mario
4-19 / 32 Ivysaur
4-19 / 32 King Dedede
4-19 / 32 Olimar

4-19 / 33 Ike
4-21 / 34 R.O.B
4-19 / 34 Yoshi
4-19 / 35 Charizard
4-19 / 35 Marth
4-19 / 35 G&W
4-17 / 35 Snake

4-21 / 37 Wario
4-19 / 37 Link
4-19 / 37 Toon Link
5-20 / 39 Bowser
4-23 / 44 Samus


Air Dodge

3-29 / 39 Metaknight
4-29 / 39 Zero Suit Samus
4-29 / 39 Diddy
4-29 / 39 Pit
4-29 / 39 Squirtle
4-29 / 39 Ivysaur
4-29 / 39 Charizard
4-29 / 39 Ike
4-29 / 39 Snake
4-29 / 39 King Dedede
4-29 / 39 Lucario
4-29 / 39 Wario
4-29 / 39 R.O.B
4-29 / 39 Olimar

4-29 / 48 Ice Climbers
4-29 / 48 Ness
4-29 / 48 Sonic
4-29 / 48 Lucas

4-30 / 49 Bowser
4-29 / 49 Mario
4-29 / 49 Donkey Kong
4-29 / 49 Link
4-29 / 49 Samus
4-29 / 49 Kirby
4-29 / 49 Fox
4-29 / 49 Pikachu
4-29 / 49 G&W
4-29 / 49 Luigi
4-29 / 49 Zelda
4-29 / 49 Sheik
4-29 / 49 Falco
4-29 / 49 Yoshi
4-29 / 49 Ganondorf
4-29 / 49 Wolf
4-29 / 49 Toon Link
4-29 / 49 Captain Falcon
4-29 / 49 Jigglypuff

5-30 / 49 Marth
4-19 / 49 Peach

I believe you mean statistics, not statics.

Top Falling Speed
A ">" means that the character to the left of the ">" ACCELERATES to his/her top speed QUICKER than the character to the right of the ">."
A "=" means the two or three characters between the "=" have the same exact acceleration.
1) Falco
2) Captain Falcon
3) Fox
4-5) Roy > DK
6) Marth
7-9) Sheik > Link = Young Link
10) Ganondorf
11) Yoshi
12-14) Bowser > Pichu = Pikachu
15) Ness
16-18) Dr. Mario = Mario = Mr. Game and Watch
19-21) Ice Climbers > Kirby > Luigi
22-23) Mewtwo > Peach
24-25) Zelda > Samus
26) Jigglypuff

Click to expand...

Am I missing something here?
So, Mewtwo is real after all.... as well as all the other Melee Characters.
I'm definately sure that Brawl hacking has reached levels of win.

S.O.L.I.D. said:

I believe you mean statistics, not statics.

Click to expand...

Yes!! You are right! Thank you!

****! I also messed up with some Melee stats. I will fix it right away.

You can edit the title by clicking "edit" and then "go advanced" and then going to the title and changing it.

S.O.L.I.D. said:

You can edit the title by clicking "edit" and then "go advanced" and then going to the title and changing it.

Click to expand...

How dumb do you think he is, lol?

I heard that Peach's airdodge was bad, but now I know that it's practically the worst. If I'm reading the data correctly.

WhatIsRaizen? said:

How dumb do you think he is, lol?

Click to expand...

In fact.... I didn't know that Thanks again S.O.L.I.D.

Yess.. My main has the worst air dodge by far it seems. She moves so elegantly when she does it but it sucks xP

WhatIsRaizen? said:

How dumb do you think he is, lol?

Click to expand...

He's saying that he can no longer modify the title, so... >.>

EDIT: Hm...

I think that the best way to rank a character's KO power and attack speed is by comparing the moves of the character to everyone else. How you'll go about doing that I'm not so sure, but it seems like the most logical way of approaching it...

I was thinking on doing this:

Put Jigglypuff at the border of Final Destination (not on the center so she dies sooner and adjusting the damage on training mode is faster). Look at which percentage each sweetspoted attack kills her (but this won't consider accuracy on attacks). I add all those values and then I divide them by the number of attacks. But I am thinking on how to handle those attacks that can hardly kill and neutral combo attacks.

To do this with all characters will take a lot of time. I could use some help.

To measure overall attack speed, I am thinking on doing this: get all attacks number of frames, add them and divide them by the number of attacks. What do you think?

Air dodge data: undeniable proof that Sakurai wanted the Melee characters to be inferior so people would be more interested in the newcomers.

Training mode is fine if you just want a list, but attacks have slightly different knockback in training mode (I think).

As for overall attack speed, I don't think what you proposed will give a good representation of attack speed. Some moves are spammed and some moves are never used, so a straight average won't be accurate.

@Twilight Prince: holy ****. 10 frames better for almost all of them - wtf??

Jump height!

The same night I started this thread I began my jump height test. To do it I made a custom stage. I used a ramp and jumped from beneath. The far in blocks I could jump and stand on the ramp would measure my jumping range. It was a bit hard to test this accurately so I will run some more tests on this soon. What I have for now is this:

Metaknight 6.3
Kirby 6.2
Jiggly 6.0
DDD 5.3
Pit 4.9
Falco 4.8
Yoshi 4.6
ZSSamus 4.4
Sheik 4.3
Diddy/Ness/Fox 4.0
Luigi/ToonLink/G&W 3.9
Rob 3.8
Donkey Kong/Lucas 3.6
Bowser/Charizard/Squirtle/IC 3.5
Mario/Sonic 3.4
Olimar/C. Falcon/Pika/Lucario 3.3
Wario/Samus 3.2
Wolf/Ivysaur 3.0
Zelda/Marth 2.9
Link 2.8
Snake/Ganon 2.7
Ike 2.6
Peach 2.4


As I've been analyzing these stats.. I see that Lucas is average in almost every category. Ivysaur and Mario are close. These 3 chars are balanced in things that have not yet been measured but are known. They have both fast and powerful attacks.

Another interesting thing I see is that Diddy is **** broken! xD He is fast, agile, has good KO power and is not even as light as he should be.

Wait... I'm confused about what those numbers mean. Can you clarify them again?

Those numbers are the blocks and portion of blocks the character advanced while jumping and trying to reach a ramp platform I used in my custom stage.


_____/
____/
___/
__/^
_/ X
[][][][][][][]

The X is the character. The more he can advance in blocks while reaching the ramp so he can stand on it, the higher he jumps right?.

I used all of their jumps. The number is the measure in blocks that are beneath the ramp. As you advance in blocks the ramp platform is higher. So when you reach, if you fall down and measure the blocks and portion of blocks you get a number. Example: 2,5 blocks are 2 blocks and a half

Para ti que eres de Puerto Rico y hablas español. Tienes una rampa tipo plataforma (que puedes traspasar desde abajo). Vas caminando por abajo y avanzando bloques y saltas y tratas de pararte sobre la plataforma. Mientras mas bloques avances mas arriba està la plataforma porque es una rampa cierto? Entonces mientras màs avances abajo pudiendo pararte sobre la rampa, es porque tienes un salto mayor. Mejor dicho, con todos los saltos que tienes puedes llegar màs arriba.

^No, since when does Yoshi have 4 jumps?

I'm still confused about the numbers. Call me daft if you want. Can you show us what the first number represents and the second number represents?

EDIT: ...OH! I see now.

But why are you using a comma? People use periods for decimals... ._.

EDIT2: By the way, Diddy sucks at KOing. XD

MorpheusVGX said:

Those numbers are the blocks and portion of blocks the character advanced while jumping and trying to reach a ramp platform I used in my custom stage.


_____/
____/
___/
__/^
_/ X
[][][][][][][]

The X is the character. The more he can advance in blocks while reaching the ramp so he can stand on it, the higher he jumps right?.

Click to expand...

Actually I think youre testing method is flawed. If a character jumps high but has low aerial movement, they wouldnt be able to move forward as far as someone with the same jump height but higher aerial speed. For example, lets say that Snake and Wario have the same jump height. Even though they have the same jump height, Wario would still go further cause his aerial control is crazy good while Snakes aerial control is one of the worst in the game.

Engineers (as I am) use ", " for decimals. In high level math they use commas, sorry. I will change it for clarity.

In my method you never jump forward or backwards. You walk slowly beneath the ramp, and then try to reach it jumping vertically. Then when you reach it. You fall down and measure blocks from the edge to you.

Im not getting it. How can you jump from under the ramp? And Im not getting your diagram now that I look more closely; how is 'x' inside the ramp? Is there like a platform under the ramp that the character is standing on? But then that leads back to my 1st question of how you can jump from under the ramp?

This is confusing me

EDIT: The french use commas too

NAKEDeDeDe. Can you tell me more about how you collect frame data? That is going to be very helpful. I thought you used a video capture card and then analyed the video frame by frame. I think we just need precision to be sure two or more characters jump the same. The hard thing sometimes is to measure portions of blocks with you eye alone. I can't say my method is near perfect but it is near the truth.

Bellios. You know that there are platforms that you can go thru them right? How do you call those that are like ramps? I am using those.

Oh ok so your using 'those' ramps. I see how it works now.

NAKEDeDeDe said:

It's a Homebrew code that lets you go frame by frame. I could input the jumps, and go frame by frame until I reach the very highest they can reach with just jumping. Then I would pause and simply snapshot the highest point, mark it, rinse and repeat. If you want I can try to collect the data for you.

Click to expand...

That would be.. HEROIC . Thanks!

We will be needing that frame data a lot to measure overall attack speed.

I will try to measure overall KO power with the method I told you about.

Id like to help with testing too. I just have trouble thinking of accurate ways to do so. Ive done a couple lists in the past for specific techniques like retreating pivot grabs and dash attack cancel slides. I guess you could just tell me what to do Ill make the list. Heres some things we could test; traction floatiness/FF speeds, land and air speed.

But aren't those already tested? I have lists other people made for that. I am thinking FF speeds are proportional to falling speeds. If you could help with vertical jump speed that would be awesome. You could do something similar to what I did. You don't even need the ramp. Just have them reach their peak altitude. Have all characters use all their jumps and measure distance/time.
Would you do that?

Okay, before anyone says anything else, I would like to announce that for sometime I have been working on compiling a chart for attack speed and I guess I'd better finish it up before someone beats me to it, lol.

However, mine only takes into account the frame when hitboxes first come out, partially because some character boards only have that data.

But yes, don't worry about attack speeds, I have that covered.

a little more specific with the statistics plz.
didn't know what you meant at first.

I thought Samus was the second slowest falling character, and Jigglypuff was the slowest of them all. It says that Peach is the second in your list, though. What's up?

JayDeth said:

Okay, before anyone says anything else, I would like to announce that for sometime I have been working on compiling a chart for attack speed and I guess I'd better finish it up before someone beats me to it, lol.

However, mine only takes into account the frame when hitboxes first come out, partially because some character boards only have that data.

But yes, don't worry about attack speeds, I have that covered.

Click to expand...

Excelent! But I think that speed should be considered in the whole duration of the attack. If an attack throws multiple hits then each hit has its own number of frames from where it starts to where it ends. If there is no frame data on that. Let's try to get it.

professor mgw said:

a little more specific with the statistics plz.
didn't know what you meant at first.

Click to expand...

What are you referring to? If you are talking about my jumping test, I will take a photo and work on that with some photoshop to explain my method.

Dryn said:

I thought Samus was the second slowest falling character, and Jigglypuff was the slowest of them all. It says that Peach is the second in your list, though. What's up?

Click to expand...

The only data I tested myself is that of jumps. Other data is just a recopilation from well accepted charts on the internet.

MorpheusVGX said:

Excelent! But I think that speed should be considered in the whole duration of the attack. If an attack throws multiple hits then each hit has its own number of frames from where it starts to where it ends. If there is no frame data on that. Let's try to get it.

Click to expand...

I agree, but as I said, some boards only concerned themselves with when the hitbox comes out. As well, so does the frame data here on Tactical. And really, the first frame the hit/attack box comes out on should account for something anyway when referring to attack speed. Say a character averages out poorly with really laggy attacks, but every single one hits on frame 5 or sooner. Would that mean that character has a slow attack speed?

What we should do is show a correlation between the two. A comparison. And we shouldn't do an average as that would be greatly skewed by things like the Falcon Punch. And how would you factor in specials, by the way?

For my chart I'm working on, I'm having the Excel program tell me the mean and the mode for each move, or the average and most common, if you will.

You are right... both things are important. How long does the attack last and when the hitbox comes out. It makes sense.

Automatic combos will need to be measured by hit. There is no other way I think...

A thing we are needing is a way to measure distance precisely within the game. To measure attack range, grab range, and jump height.

Ok Ill do vertical jump speed. Ill try to have the list up by tomorrow if not, then this weekend. So all I have to do to test this is time each jump and do distance (which I get from your list) divided by time? Or should I remeasure distances with a vertical block column. If you already have lists for the others, than I wont worry about testing those.

EDIT: 600th Post

My distance is horizontal. You could get the real height in blocks by using tan(angle) = y/x
I think those ramps are 45 degrees. So you have : y = x * tan (45 deg) which means: y = x. We need to be sure they are not 40 degrees or something like that. Either way we will be close to the truth and things will be proportional.
Do you have the tools to analyze frame data? You could get a better measure for height and register times in the process.
Another way I was thinking was to use snapshots. You could try a fixed camera distance and take a snapshot on the peak of your last jump. Then we can measure distance by pixel analysis on photoshop. That could also work for attack range and grab range. You step the farthest you can and where you are still able to hit/grab. Then take a snapshot, and measure pixels. It may work.

So I will post on the first page that JayDeth is working on overall attack speed
and Bellios is working on vertical jump height and speed.

NakeDeDeDe was also going to work on vertical jump height using frame by frame movement and snapshots. So Bellios you can concentrate on the timing and use NakeDeDeDe height measure. I don't want to waste your efforts.

I say we do the easier tests first. Overall attack and grab range are not that hard. But it will take some time. I say we define a method, then take 10 characters each person and go with it. We have to be careful that many attacks make you advance. You have to know where you were exactly before releasing the attack. I think the proper method is to see how far can you be and still hit and then measure in pixels where you were standing after the attack, taking the distance from the center of your character.