My impression overall is that Mario honestly lands kill moves more reliably and safely.
Mario's fsmash has less horizontal range than Kirby's fsmash. His fsmash being punishable is bad, but I don't think a player would want to land in a bad position at high %s, unless the fsmash was a sure hit. So, saying that Kirby's fsmash is more punishable when it's being used in the same was as Mario's fsmash (to punish), when Kirby's kills earlier, has more range, and whose hitbox lasts a long while, is pretty much bupkis.
That's his main advantage in this matchup if you ask me, besides having a more reliable and safer camp, so all in all, I'd say defensively, Mario has the advantage.
What if Kirby absorbed Mario, and he has fireballs... What can Mario do about an aircamping spam-happy Kirby? We have lots of jumps and are floaty, after all, so whatever answer you will have against Kirby, Kirby will have against Mario (powershield and go in for an uair? Kirby can do this vs Mario too).
Sure...Kirby does kill earlier on several moves, but all of them are pretty situational, besides stuff like edgeguards with Down-B if Mario recovers too low.
Are you implying that Kirby's fsmash and bair are situational? His fsmash is no more situational that Mario's fsmash, if not less situational. Having more range and a longer-lasting hitbox assures that situations arise more often, and Kirby's bair is hardly situational... A situational Kirby kill move could be... A Kirby uthrow kill at 150-160%, which will happen if you avoid and/or DI his kill moves.
Kirby's F-smash is a pretty good punisher, but it's a lot less safe than Mario's because he moves towards you as he does it...
Less safe, but better for punishing. Higher risk/reward, and the risk isn't that bad either... Worst that could happen is Kirby gets shieldgrabbed of poked with a non-lethal hit due to the shield knockback when he hits the opponents' shields.
Mario's F-smash isn't exactly super safe, but it does push you away a good distance.
So, Kirby's doesn't? If used near ledges, Kirby's fsmash is his safest move: if opponents block, they tumple onto the ledges, making it unpunishable. Away from the ledges, the worst that could happen is we get shieldgrabbed, or poked by a non-lethal attack due to the knockback you'll receive from shielding the kick.
Same goes for his D-smash on block, which is fairly safe.
Luckily, Kirby can ftilt Mario if your dsmash hits our shield. Your hitbox is extended forward, and we have enough time to hit your extended head's hurtbox...
Kirby's KO moves are better on spotdodges however, although F-smash in particular is much less effective the later you hit it with.
Kirby's fsmash is less effective the later we hit with it? I don't understand this well... Can you rephrase it, please?
Jab D-smash and B-throw are legit high% options that are not hard for Mario to land at all, and generally speaking Mario is more competent when he's in close range with faster options to work with. Mario's Up-smash out of shield is also really good, and makes crossovers really risky to do against Mario.
What if we do falling bairs? We can ftilt you before you usmash, and we can even do falling bair>rising bair without risking shieldgrabs on the falling bairs due to the knockback on shields.
Kirby's main advantages...are things like his B-air kills at really high percents
What! Kirby can kill with a fresh bair at 130-140%, I don't think that those are '
really high percents'.
His F-tilt and B-air are kinda stupid to work around, but he doesn't have infinite priority to guarantee that Mario won't get in without landing hits.
Same goes for Mario's fireballs, grabs, and spacers. Kirby can get around them without taking damage. Saying otherwise will point out to you being biased to your character's advantage due to not having played good Kirbies.
He doesn't really have a real way to approach Mario either besides hoping that his B-air will shield poke while Mario can definitely get away with some crossover mixups on block safely.
Nope. We can approach with shieldgrabs, bairs, ftilts, dash attacks (which are quite sexy), and even feint a shield approach then turn around and utilt your projectile AND yourself for running in expecting some frame advantage.
I'm calling for 50/50 personally just because I think Mario has more defensive options and moderately reliable setups into some of his kills to compensate for Kirby's power and edgeguard options in general.
Why didn't you talk about Kirby's aircamping? What can Mario do if Kirby has the advantage, then just shields all the fireballs and aircamps Mario, then whenever Mario approaches he goes for the ledges? If you get close to the ledges, KIRBICIDE. If you don't get close to the ledges, then we can fair you and retreat back to the ledges with no fear of retaliation due to our multi-hitbox and floatiness. If you spam fireballs, we just drop off, jump around a bit, then grab the ledge, since we're not just going to jump into the fireballs and into your combos... And what about if Kirby takes your power and starts camping you back? We can use the fireballs better than you guys, and that's a
fact.
I can't agree on 50:50, sorry. Kirby has an easier time here. If Mario can only beat Kirby in defensive maneuvers as you say, then obviously Kirby has the more options, therefore he has the advantage, right?
