-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Yoshi v. Lucas
- Thread starter Shiri
- Start date
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Erm. I don't have a lot of experience. Grabs work really well? I don't think Lucas has any moves that can beat our grab apart from his projectiles, but as long as you're pivot grabbing, you should have enough time to block the PK Fire. I also think egging him is effective, even though he can reflect them with his bat, I don't think it'll ever reach us at max range.
His aerials are disjointed, but they don't have too much range, I believe. Rising dairs being the exception. His recovery isn't too easily gimped, with Zap Jumping and Magnet pulling. His PKT also nets some nice distance, and he has a tether. Dairs would probably be good against his recovery.
I don't really know what to talk about, so I'll end it there.
His aerials are disjointed, but they don't have too much range, I believe. Rising dairs being the exception. His recovery isn't too easily gimped, with Zap Jumping and Magnet pulling. His PKT also nets some nice distance, and he has a tether. Dairs would probably be good against his recovery.
I don't really know what to talk about, so I'll end it there.
Poltergust
Smash Master
Uh, I remember reading that a dash grab will miss if Lucas is doing an f-smash. If I remember my matches with Galeon correctly, I think that may be right. Which makes no sense whatsoever. ._.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
That's pretty stupid. ._. I guess that means dash grabs will merely be punished with an fsmash.
The other two smashes aren't that bad, though. Make sure you remember that Dsmash hits three times, and the first hit reaches a bit behind him. USmash should pretty much never hit unless you're being punished for something.
I think camping is effective against Lucas, and getting a pivot grab in or what have you for the CG is great. We also the Usmash on release, so killing shouldn't be a problem. Going into the air isn't always the best idea since his aerials have some disjoints, but they shouldn't be too much of a problem.
The other two smashes aren't that bad, though. Make sure you remember that Dsmash hits three times, and the first hit reaches a bit behind him. USmash should pretty much never hit unless you're being punished for something.
I think camping is effective against Lucas, and getting a pivot grab in or what have you for the CG is great. We also the Usmash on release, so killing shouldn't be a problem. Going into the air isn't always the best idea since his aerials have some disjoints, but they shouldn't be too much of a problem.
All his smashes are good, but learning DI out of upsmash is so worth it.Learn it.
I've seen a lot of tick play with Lucas. That is to say use lots of small fast moves and just keep poking with those until a reliable forward smash finish. His cancels are pretty quick and can move surprisingly fast if you're not ready for it.
I won't only really try to grab the neutral and down aerials. I find that if Lucas even gets a moment to sneak in, if you don't know exactly what's coming, it's hard to DI out of his tick combos and if you're in KO percents, you can surely expect that forward smash.
I guess Lucas players that don't know the recovery will try for downsmashes at the edge on you and Lucas players that do will try for up tilts at the edge. Be ready for either; I don't like airdodging against Lucas. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth when he can recover fast enough if I dodge though an attack to do another one or if he reads the dodge because I'll be sure to eat a KO move. If I have the choice between dodging and taking a hit, I'll take the hit and try my best to get some good DI or interrupts out of whatever combo he's trying for instead of giving him a freebie.
I like to jab.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
All his smashes are good for their uses. I just don't think they'll be hitting that often unless you're set up for one. Would you mind telling me how to DI out of the usmash? =]
I'm not too familiar with much Lucas play, but I agree with the tick play idea. That's the way I find I need to play when I use him (although rather poorly.)
His ftilt and fair have some pretty surprising knockback to them. I've killed some people with fair from pretty close to the center with a fair at around 150ish. Ftilt's nearly the same, I think, though if you DI it it kills a lot slower. His dash attack can kill too, also at high percents, but it's got a bit of start up.
Anybody have experience against a good Lucas?. =/
I'm not too familiar with much Lucas play, but I agree with the tick play idea. That's the way I find I need to play when I use him (although rather poorly.)
His ftilt and fair have some pretty surprising knockback to them. I've killed some people with fair from pretty close to the center with a fair at around 150ish. Ftilt's nearly the same, I think, though if you DI it it kills a lot slower. His dash attack can kill too, also at high percents, but it's got a bit of start up.
Anybody have experience against a good Lucas?. =/
Poltergust
Smash Master
Uh, is Galeon considered good? I've seen his name get referenced a few times when people are talking about good Lucases, so... >.>
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
Only Yoshi I've played is chaco, albeit it was online.
Edit: Galeon is considered to be the best Lucas in the country as of now. there are only like 10 good ones. I'm one of them.
Edit: Galeon is considered to be the best Lucas in the country as of now. there are only like 10 good ones. I'm one of them.
Poltergust
Smash Master
Yayz. I have credibility now.
Uh... I'll get around to this later since I'm feeling lazy now. =P
Uh... I'll get around to this later since I'm feeling lazy now. =P
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
If anyone has played
Me
Tyr
Galeon
Oats
Heytallman
Phoenix Alpha
Magitek
Ninjalink
uhh... Reflex?
I guess Zman and APC.
Not sure about HAGGS.
Then you probably have credibility.
Me
Tyr
Galeon
Oats
Heytallman
Phoenix Alpha
Magitek
Ninjalink
uhh... Reflex?
I guess Zman and APC.
Not sure about HAGGS.
Then you probably have credibility.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Lazy Floridians. Do it now. >=[
Metatitan
Smash Master
Uhm, I'm pretty sure Oats is the best lucas. Ask burntsocks about this matchup, he's probly the only one I'd personally listen to about this MU.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Galeon is legit.
I know this matchup quite well, but I suck at explaining anything. I just play.
I eat dreams
I know this matchup quite well, but I suck at explaining anything. I just play.
I eat dreams
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
Everyone has their opinionssss. Some say Tyr. Some say Oats. Alot say Galeon.
One thing that makes me happppppy in this matchup is
Yoshi can't Ground release us
but he can CG us so
Only Yoshi i've played was polt. Like a long long time ago when he was in A2 lol.
It's too hard to decide on whos the best lucas.
All 3 have good tourny results.
Yoshi can't Ground release us
but he can CG us so
Only Yoshi i've played was polt. Like a long long time ago when he was in A2 lol.
It's too hard to decide on whos the best lucas.
All 3 have good tourny results.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
We've got a guaranteed Usmash on release as well. XD
D
Deleted member
Guest
I play against Oats, not too much but weve played a fair amount.
Its pretty even, lucas is really hard to grab if he camps, and he can rack up damage reallly quickly if you let him approach.
Both can camp eachother in the sense that they both make approaching hard/unsafe a lot of the time.
We sorta go back and forth 2 stocking eachother, so yea, its wierd, but I'd call it even.
More later.
Its pretty even, lucas is really hard to grab if he camps, and he can rack up damage reallly quickly if you let him approach.
Both can camp eachother in the sense that they both make approaching hard/unsafe a lot of the time.
We sorta go back and forth 2 stocking eachother, so yea, its wierd, but I'd call it even.
More later.
prOAPC
Smash Lord
i'm the best Lucas... out of USA lol
Yoshi has weapon in this match up:
1. Chain grab, but Lucas is not easy to grab
2. Jab, Yoshi's jabs are really good, can stop some of Lucas ground moves
3. Nair, it stops Nair combos, which sucks :S
expect a lot of PK Fires, ftilts and jabs, Lucas has to play a defensive strategy, like a get-away-from-here game, and he's good at it
and:
Yoshi has weapon in this match up:
1. Chain grab, but Lucas is not easy to grab
2. Jab, Yoshi's jabs are really good, can stop some of Lucas ground moves
3. Nair, it stops Nair combos, which sucks :S
expect a lot of PK Fires, ftilts and jabs, Lucas has to play a defensive strategy, like a get-away-from-here game, and he's good at it
and:
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Why are you from Md and I have never played you
go to chus DOJO so we can play
Poltergust
Smash Master
OK, I'm writing a brief summary here.
I used to think that this match-up was in Yoshi's favor. After playing Galeon I realize that it is actually even (OMG I agreed with Sockz! =O).
Yoshi has the tools to deal with Lucas. In fact, if Yoshi plays perfectly it'll be really hard for Lucas to win. However, Lucas is able to greatly capitalize on Yoshi's mistakes. Whiffed an f-smash? Expect one in return. Missed a pivot-grab? Get n-aired/d-aired. If Yoshi plays recklessly, he'll be dying much earlier than Lucas will (they die at about the same percentage, but Lucas' attacks are far stronger). What Lucas will have to do is bait and punish, which turns this whole match into one big guessing game, because there are so many options available to both characters at any given time.
Now, about the chain-grab, this is actually extremely bad for Lucas since he can be up-smashed out of it. He won't be living past 130% if he gets grabbed, but good Lucases are actually pretty hard to grab (he are no Wario, but it's still difficult). And as mentioned before, dash-grabbing Lucas may be dangerous since his f-smash (for some reason or another), avoids it completely. So, Yoshi has to focus on pivot-grabbing Lucas. Incidentally, Lucas' pivot-grab is almost as good as Yoshi's, so be sure to avoid that. He has the best pummel in the game, and two of his throws can actually kill (u-throw and d-throw), and they all do a hefty amount of damage.
Recovery-wise, it's kind of dependent on where they got hit. If they are hit high, it's virtually impossible to gimp them, and in Lucas' case he can't edge-guard with PK Thunder since it is too slow (Yoshi can still use his eggs, though). If they got knocked low, Lucas has a harder time recovering due to the nature of his up-B. Zap Jump helps remedy this, but if they don't Zap Jump it's going to be a problem for Lucas. Eggs work wonders on gimping him since they cancel out his PK Thunder. D-air works, too. As for Yoshi, he isn't affected much by Lucas' PK Thunder since his double-jump heavy-armor is strong enough to pass through it at moderate percentages, or he can just air-dodge through it. Since it is slow it shouldn't be as much as a problem as Ness'. Using d-air or b-air is risky, but f-air can actually get the job done since it is quick and beats out quite a few of Yoshi's aerials.
Will write more later...
I used to think that this match-up was in Yoshi's favor. After playing Galeon I realize that it is actually even (OMG I agreed with Sockz! =O).
Yoshi has the tools to deal with Lucas. In fact, if Yoshi plays perfectly it'll be really hard for Lucas to win. However, Lucas is able to greatly capitalize on Yoshi's mistakes. Whiffed an f-smash? Expect one in return. Missed a pivot-grab? Get n-aired/d-aired. If Yoshi plays recklessly, he'll be dying much earlier than Lucas will (they die at about the same percentage, but Lucas' attacks are far stronger). What Lucas will have to do is bait and punish, which turns this whole match into one big guessing game, because there are so many options available to both characters at any given time.
Now, about the chain-grab, this is actually extremely bad for Lucas since he can be up-smashed out of it. He won't be living past 130% if he gets grabbed, but good Lucases are actually pretty hard to grab (he are no Wario, but it's still difficult). And as mentioned before, dash-grabbing Lucas may be dangerous since his f-smash (for some reason or another), avoids it completely. So, Yoshi has to focus on pivot-grabbing Lucas. Incidentally, Lucas' pivot-grab is almost as good as Yoshi's, so be sure to avoid that. He has the best pummel in the game, and two of his throws can actually kill (u-throw and d-throw), and they all do a hefty amount of damage.
Recovery-wise, it's kind of dependent on where they got hit. If they are hit high, it's virtually impossible to gimp them, and in Lucas' case he can't edge-guard with PK Thunder since it is too slow (Yoshi can still use his eggs, though). If they got knocked low, Lucas has a harder time recovering due to the nature of his up-B. Zap Jump helps remedy this, but if they don't Zap Jump it's going to be a problem for Lucas. Eggs work wonders on gimping him since they cancel out his PK Thunder. D-air works, too. As for Yoshi, he isn't affected much by Lucas' PK Thunder since his double-jump heavy-armor is strong enough to pass through it at moderate percentages, or he can just air-dodge through it. Since it is slow it shouldn't be as much as a problem as Ness'. Using d-air or b-air is risky, but f-air can actually get the job done since it is quick and beats out quite a few of Yoshi's aerials.
Will write more later...
prOAPC
Smash Lord
actually, Lucas' killing throws are d-thorw and b-throw, u-throw is considered as Lucas' worst moveHe has the best pummel in the game, and two of his throws can actually kill (u-throw and d-throw), and they all do a hefty amount of damage.
Poltergust
Smash Master
But, his b-throw still has bad killing potential, especially when DI'ed. I've never gotten killed by his b-throw since I've always DI'ed it. His u-throw can actually kill earlier than it. Still, all of Lucas' throws hurt a lot since getting grabbed basically means taking about 20+% worth of damage if Lucas also pummels (3% worth of a damage per pummel and is extremely fast... what the heck...).
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
I can't leave state =(
I'm actually going to that, since it's in MD. If we play friendlies, maybe you can learn the matchup =D.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Yea the only lucas I have played in Md/Va is Okin
who is easily the best in Md/Va
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
*sigh*. I hear this quite often, from people that don't know me. I've been said to be better than he is.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
good **** if your better you gotta come to VA tourneys too it would help you get noticed
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
Idk if I actually am, people (no names) just said I might be the second best Lucas in the country. *shrugs shoulders*
I'll try to convince my parents. My main problem is that I never have rides. >_>
We're spamming the h*** out of this matchup discussion.
Uhh... Lucas' Pivot grab > Yoshi's bair approach. It's pretty even. yaaaa...
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Would we be forced to approach in the first place?
I think Yoshi's pivot grab > Lucas's approach as well.
This is pretty even, isn't it? XD
I think Yoshi's pivot grab > Lucas's approach as well.
This is pretty even, isn't it? XD
Poltergust
Smash Master
Lucas' pivot-grab reaches that high? And whether Yoshi approaches or not depends on how far the two are and how good the Lucas is at reflecting projectiles. >.>
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
I was joking lol.
Our pivot grab height is abysmal. Why not just PS the eggs? It's fun ****** Yoshi's shield. Lucas pretty much walks all over it.
Pivot grab beats Nair approach, but not Dair. Yes, the matchup is extremely even.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Yay me and polt agree
Poltergust
Smash Master
Well, even if you power-shield the eggs you are not getting anywhere. Yoshi would still have no reason to approach Lucas.
I don't shield much in this match-up because Lucas is able to shield-pressure so well and Yoshi has bad OoS options. Instead, Yoshi should be punishing the moves Lucas throws out at him with his own moves, but in turn Lucas can punish Yoshi's punishes with his own punishes.
I think that this match is a great example of Yomi, in my experience. I wish I can play against Galeon more often, but he usually doesn't enter singles.
I don't shield much in this match-up because Lucas is able to shield-pressure so well and Yoshi has bad OoS options. Instead, Yoshi should be punishing the moves Lucas throws out at him with his own moves, but in turn Lucas can punish Yoshi's punishes with his own punishes.
I think that this match is a great example of Yomi, in my experience. I wish I can play against Galeon more often, but he usually doesn't enter singles.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
This MU is starting to sound fun. XD I need to find a Lucas main to play. ;D
I know absolutely nothing about this matchup whatsoever.
I used to think Lucas was fairly easy, and then I watched Oats and other Lucas players ****.
Good Lucas mains are not easy to deal with, they have tons of tricks up their sleeves and make very rational decisions which could make things difficult for Yoshi.
But, Lucas also has a bunch of weaknesses, so I don't really know what to say on the matter.
What does the majority of Yoshi's/Lucas's agree on for a matchup ratio?
I used to think Lucas was fairly easy, and then I watched Oats and other Lucas players ****.
Good Lucas mains are not easy to deal with, they have tons of tricks up their sleeves and make very rational decisions which could make things difficult for Yoshi.
But, Lucas also has a bunch of weaknesses, so I don't really know what to say on the matter.
What does the majority of Yoshi's/Lucas's agree on for a matchup ratio?
50-50
The end =)
Sounds perfect.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
someone has to have the advantage a neutral ratio is really dumb
how can 2 totally different characters that have different move sets and play styles be a neutral. Imo only a ditto can be neutral. We can't take the lazy/stupid way out and say its neutral. There is no rush here someone has an advantage or slight advantage.
Tbh I am not to knowledgeable on this match up but ino its most likely not a neutral match-up. We have all the time in the world to discuss this we don't need to cut it short and say 50:50
Airborne
Smash Lord
all i can say is that yoshi can kick some *** long and short ranged and lucas completely dominates the mid range.... well i haven't encountered enough nairs to say that yoshi owns short ranged.... but yeah, lucas is light, yet has incredible killing power, and yoshi has cg's and ****..... i haven't really played a good lucas to put enough into this MU. =\ (but then again, we could say that about me with ANY MU.....)
Cheeri-Oats
Smash Lord
burntsockz should write about why he knows it's in Yoshi's favor.