Ganondorf's Up+B is terrible

Clai · Jun 25, 2009

As if giving us two virtually unusable moves (you know which ones I mean) wasn't enough, the Brawl developers had to give us a move that hurts us when we land it. Not only that, but its our recovery move as well, so its a move we have to use often (Apparently manly characters don't need hitstun to recover). The following list is all of the characters (in percent order) and what percents they can attack Ganondorf out of his up+B, as well as which attacks can do the trick. The bolded moves are the moves that are really going to ruin Ganon's day. Obviously B-moves are left out because aerials get you out of hitstun faster than B-moves.

With the knowledge of which moves hits Ganon out of his up+B, I want to try to find a percentage where these attacks essentially screw any chances of Ganon recovering- the point where the characters can simply jump into our Up+B and gimp us effortlessly. However, due to the many heights in which Ganon can recover, finding a single percent to apply for each character would be too sporadic to work. Now, the list:

Red = "Ganon is going to get owned"

Jigglypuff- 31% (Nair)

Pikachu- 32% (Nair, Uair)

Squirtle- 32% (Nair, Fair, Uair)

Metaknight- 33% (Nair, Uair, Fair)

Falco- 34% (Nair, Dair, Fair)

Game and Watch- 34% (Fair,Nair, Uair [Uair doesn't actually hit Ganon, but it sends him way up in the air])

Marth- 34% (Nair, Fair, Uair)
:shiek: Shiek- 35% (Nair, Fair, Uair)

Mario- 38% (Nair, Uair)

ROB- 40% (Fair)

Yellow = "This may cause some problems"

Fox- 34% (Nair, Fair)

Olimar- 34% (Fair)

Zelda- 35% (Nair)

Toon Link- 36% (Nair)

Peach- 36% (Nair)

Diddy Kong- 37% (Fair, Uair)

Sonic- 37% (Nair, Fair, Uair [First hit])

Lucario- 38% (Nair, Fair)

Luigi- 38% (Nair, Fair, Uair)

Captain Falcon- 39% (Uair, Nair [First hit])

Wario- 40% (Nair, Fair)

Yoshi-40% (Nair, Uair)

Samus-40% (Nair, Uair, Fair)

Ganondorf- 41% (Uair)

Link- 42% (Nair)

Bowser- 43% (Fair)

Blue = "There is no danger of getting gimped"

ZSS- 34% (Fair, Uair)

Pit- 37% (Nair)

Lucas-37% (Nair)

Ness -37% (Fair)

Ivysaur- 38% (Nair)

Wolf- 39% (Nair, Fair, Uair)
:dedede:

Dedede- 41% (Nair)

DK- 42% (Uair)

Green = "They can't even do anything about it"

Snake- No

Ice Climbers- They surprisingly can't do anything

Kirby- No

Charizard- No

Ike- No

deepseadiva · Jun 25, 2009

Thank you, this is perfect! I've been trying and trying with Peach to get the nair to hit and it never works. After a certain percent makes sense, thanks for compiling this. :D

verge · Jun 25, 2009

I think Falco can dair spike out of it at higher percents(like 90-100+?) but i don't remember the exact number

TP · Jun 25, 2009

Clai, stop this madness. Edit away the info. We have a hard enough time as is.

MoblinMan · Jun 25, 2009

menounderwater said:
thank You, This Is Perfect! I've Been Trying And Trying With Peach To Get The Nair To Hit And It Never Works. After A Certain Percent Makes Sense, Thanks For Compiling This. :d

**** You Meno omg!!!!! I thought we were FRIENDS

-Mars- · Jun 25, 2009

The thing that makes this not so bad is that if you still have your second jump, you can hit some would be attackers with a quick uair if they think they can just hit you out of your up-b.

PK-ow! · Jun 25, 2009

Yoshi?

10Yoshis

Z1GMA · Jun 25, 2009

If the opponent is stupid enough, he/she can help you back to the stage when you perform a Horizontinal Dark Dive KO ^^

bobson · Jun 25, 2009

Mario can land nair and uair starting from 38%, and nair won't be pretty.

@HomE · Jun 25, 2009

do you hate us all Clai?

Phan quick, Wizkick this so i dont kill myself

Pierce7d · Jun 25, 2009

Uh, why is this in the Ganon boards? You're supposed to hide away this information in your Ganon Back Room (lol) or pass it along only to proficient Ganon's. Instead, you're telling the world how to **** your character. Not smart. You're essentially saying, "Look here, you can beat me like this!"

adumbrodeus · Jun 25, 2009

Pierce7d said:
Uh, why is this in the Ganon boards? You're supposed to hide away this information in your Ganon Back Room (lol) or pass it along only to proficient Ganon's. Instead, you're telling the world how to **** your character. Not smart. You're essentially saying, "Look here, you can beat me like this!"

I'll get around eventually whether he says anything or not.

PK-ow! · Jun 25, 2009

Pierce7d said:
Uh, why is this in the Ganon boards? You're supposed to hide away this information in your Ganon Back Room (lol) or pass it along only to proficient Ganon's. Instead, you're telling the world how to **** your character. Not smart. You're essentially saying, "Look here, you can beat me like this!"

Maybe that's how Marths do it, but we're Ganondorf.

We're man enough to publicize our weaknesses.

B!squick · Jun 25, 2009

PK-ow! said:
Maybe that's how Marths do it, but we're Ganondorf.

We're man enough to publicize our weaknesses.

And strangle people named Clai, lol.

TP · Jun 25, 2009

I like how not a single Ganon main has given this thread a legit reply.

Zerxion · Jun 25, 2009

Because this only benefits Ganon in dittos

PK-ow! · Jun 25, 2009

Twilight Prince said:
I like how not a single Ganon main has given this thread a legit reply.

How is my reply not legit?

I asked where Yoshi is. Yoshi is missing. To a degree of ten Yoshis.
It's important because Ganon's up-B is theoretically **** against Yoshi's recovery.

PhantomX · Jun 25, 2009

Pierce... it's not like any extra help vs Ganon will make a difference, b/c no one really needs it. It's good info, so I'm not going to lock it.

Heck, if anything it helps us know who it's saft to up b and at what percentages, making sure we alter our recovery accordingly.

Clai · Jun 25, 2009

bobson said:
Mario can land nair and uair starting from 38%, and nair won't be pretty.

PK-ow! said:
Yoshi?

10Yoshis

I somehow left out the entire E tier when I made that list and I didn't realize it until you brought that up. All the characters are on it now.

The reason I did this is not because I hate everyone. The reason I did this is because everyone already knows that Ganon's up+B has no hitstun and people who know Ganon enough should already be exploiting this. It's not news, people.

What we (the Ganon mains) should be doing is figuring out how to get back to the stage and not have to deal with this mess. It will also help us reconsider matchups based on which characters **** us out of up+B and which ones we can practically use as a viable move and barely get punished. It's not like our recovery doesn't already suck, so what do we have to lose by telling people this? Now that the information is out there, it's up to us to work together and make sure we're as little affected by this gay exploit as possible.

Ray_Kalm · Jun 25, 2009

Clai said:
I somehow left out the entire E tier when I made that list and I didn't realize it until you brought that up. All the characters are on it now.

The reason I did this is not because I hate everyone. The reason I did this is because everyone already knows that Ganon's up+B has no hitstun and people who know Ganon enough should already be exploiting this. It's not news, people.

What we (the Ganon mains) should be doing is figuring out how to get back to the stage and not have to deal with this mess. It will also help us reconsider matchups based on which characters **** us out of up+B and which ones we can practically use as a viable move and barely get punished. It's not like our recovery doesn't already suck, so what do we have to lose by telling people this? Now that the information is out there, it's up to us to work together and make sure we're as little affected by this gay exploit as possible.

I agree. As long as this helps Ganon remain at the bottom, we shouldn't do anything to hide it from others.

@HomE · Jun 25, 2009

I know Kalm wont have any problems with this...lols

I happen to like Ganon's Up-b quite a bit, it has **** good vertical range and the horizontal range is plenty for me, not to mention I swear he grabs the edge from more then 1 inch away(thats 1 inch on the Tv screen, not in game)

I understand what you are trying to do by presenting us with a problem and trying to seek solutions, but i dont understand how you plan to recover in a situation where you ONLY option is to Up-B (like 70% of the time..) we cant invent new ways to recover... do you feel like bringing back the double reverse WP recovery???(dont do it) I dont see ANY other way to get back to the stage besides obvious situations when you have the option of using Side-B or Up-B.

I have no trouble recovering with Proper DI, saving my jump(s), and well timed fast falling, usually when i get close to the stage to avoid any gimps/spikes/nonsense.. getting edge hogged happens (and i Fking hate it) but there isnt much you can do besides maybe save a jump and trying to Up-B them the moment their invincibility frames are gone, hopefully getting a stage spike...

To summarize this rant.. we cant magically pull a new Up-B out of our *****, maybe im being to negative, i just dont see any solution to this...

PROVE ME WRONG PLEASE!!

PhantomX · Jun 25, 2009

Stop overreacting, guy. You shouldn't be grabbing people with your up + B often anyway, as it's better to snap the ledge and get back on stage than dawdle offstage where 5/6 of the cast ***** you.

@HomE · Jun 25, 2009

PhantomX said:
Stop overreacting, guy. You shouldn't be grabbing people with your up + B often anyway, as it's better to snap the ledge and get back on stage than dawdle offstage where 5/6 of the cast ***** you.

I'd assume your talking to me? my name isnt "guy"..

I never said i grab people with Up-B... ever...

what i said was "we cant magically pull a new Up-B out of our *****"

...?

:034: · Jun 25, 2009

Twilight Prince said:
I like how not a single Ganon main has given this thread a legit reply.

How about zigma and Home?

TP · Jun 25, 2009

Flying Dutchman said:
How about zigma and Home?

By legitimate reply, I meant something like "Let's discuss how to work around this" or "Good job collecting info for us," not "let's dark dive in the opposite direction of the stage and see how that works out." :laugh:

PhantomX · Jun 25, 2009

Twilight Prince said:
By legitimate reply, I meant something like "Let's discuss how to work around this" or "Good job collecting info for us," not "let's dark dive in the opposite direction of the stage and see how that works out."

PhantomX said:
Pierce... it's not like any extra help vs Ganon will make a difference, b/c no one really needs it. It's good info, so I'm not going to lock it.

Heck, if anything it helps us know who it's safe to up b and at what percentages, making sure we alter our recovery accordingly.

You just got wizkick spiked irl.

SuSa · Jun 25, 2009

Start recovering backwards. Duh!

I kid...

Well, sucks to know Snake can't do squat..... did you test throwing a grenade at you for 4-6%? lmao

.Marik · Jun 25, 2009

Yoshi can also gimp Ganondorf with Dair.

Blahblahwutever · Jun 25, 2009

Falco can Dair Ganon out of his up-b.

.Marik · Jun 25, 2009

PK-ow! said:
It's important because Ganon's up-B is theoretically **** against Yoshi's recovery.

It really isn't. If Ganon Up-B's us, we get our Jump back. Egg Throw/Rising Aerials>Double Jump>Egg Throw some more.

Depending on the damage, if may affect our recovery, but our damage has to be VERY high for Ganondorf to KO Yoshi with UpB alone.

Also, hi ZedF. :D

*Edit* I play Ganondorf now. Dair Spiking, Uair and SideB>DTilt is way too fun. We should ditto sometime?

*JuriHan* · Jun 25, 2009

His up B can spike. So not all is lost.

Sgt. Baker · Jun 25, 2009

Yes! I now can defeat Ganondorf! Look out world

....oh wait, I main Ganon.

P.S. DO we even have a Ganon Backroom? haha. I personally don't think we need one, we're all buds right?.....Right?

:034: · Jun 25, 2009

We don't have a backroom, and in my opinion we don't need one either.

thexsunrosered · Jun 25, 2009

we have the front porch, where all are welcome to sit and chat

TP · Jun 25, 2009

The Ganon Back Room is so elite it has 0 members. Nobody is worthy.

@HomE · Jun 25, 2009

Twilight Prince said:
The Ganon Back Room is so elite it has 0 members. Nobody is worthy.

Maybe just Kosk in the GBR by himself practicing his Dash Dancing

PhantomX · Jun 25, 2009

Not even Kosk has gained access to the Ganon Back Room. He's dash dancing in front of the door, trying to mindgame it into opening, but it doesn't care.

Z1GMA · Jun 25, 2009

PhantomX said:
He's dash dancing in front of the door, trying to mindgame it into opening

I like that.

EDIT: The one who finds a garanteed WP will be allowed to enter.
... Not your combo, TP.

Commander_Beef · Jun 25, 2009

You guys should be discussing his upB's advantages and not putting it down .

adumbrodeus · Jun 25, 2009

Commander_Beef said:
You guys should be discussing his upB's advantages and not putting it down .

You're right!

Up-b advantages:

...

*crickets chirp*

Yea, that's about it.

Ganondorf's Up+B is terrible

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