Lucario Moveset Discussion:

PrinceAlus · Jun 28, 2009

This thread is here because I think that lucario really needs a move set discussion and I am willing to run it...

How to discuss:
You can discuss any way you want...But if you somehow get stumped when trying to approach this specific task, I would prefer that you just tried to answer these questions directly.

1. What is the move's use? Spacing, recovering, pressuring, Knockback, etc.

2. How can this move be punished? Is it usually outranged? Is it slow?

3. Rate the move...preferably on a scale of 1-10...10 being very reliable...1 being a impact to yourself...

Rules:

1. Please do not ask questions related or just similar to the format such as " are we allowed to do X?" I would rather not have questions about going with the flow inside this discussion. Instead, Send me a PM or VM about the questioned subject and I will post the question and answer in my F.A.Q guide.

2. While correcting other members are strongly encouraged. Please try not to flame other members.

3. Please do your best to not have just a single line of text in one post.

4. Other Global Rules

Wishes and quick tributes

1. Lucario moveset pics

2. Assistance with exports...I am making a decision if or if not to add such a feature.

3. If I prove to be a screwup... I will be willing to share this account to anyone that is willing to assist and to whom I find reliable.

F.A.Q

1.Q: "Alus...Why do you have two separate accounts?"
A: Because I am using this account for tasks like this, I will be able to easily access the posts I want from myself (That are useful to this guide.). Keeping track of things better, (although things getting out of hand will be unlikely) And also share this account during long absences, or consistent troubles caused by lack of experience.

2.Q: Alus...How the hell do you pronounce your name?
A: ~~It's " Eh~Loose" >__>~~
Whatever way you want, I have given up on trying to get everyone to cooperate with how the name was originally pronounced.

3.Q: Alus...Where the **** are the exports!?
A: I've given up on those.
I will however will try to make a neutral description.

4. Q: Uhh... Alus, Your post count is wrong...
A: I am only counting the posts that I think actually contributes to the discussion.
I will no longer be adding these.

5. Q: Why are you not contributing?
A: Because I'm not finding anything that I don't predict that someone else will say later on.I dunno... Maybe I'll write my opinions on each move between each link.[not on the post below me off course...]

6/28/09 Thread created...also currently updating.
6/29/09 Discussion of Aura Sphere starts.
7/2/09 Forcepalm.
7/8/09 Attempt on D-smash.
7/8/09 Back to Forcepalm.
7/9/09 Return to D-smash.
7/13/09 Time for U-smash!
7/13/09 Started linking to pages
7/17/09 Naaaaaaair!
7/22/09 Dtilt.
8/2/09 Ftilt.
8/14/09 Setting up Utilt.
9/10/09 Updated for grabs.
9/20/09 Updating for B-throw,thread died here.

PrinceAlus · Jun 28, 2009

Temporary Moveset Directory

To use this directory, It is suggested that you use "Forum default" for the posts per page. There is no particular order aside from page lineup.

FINISHED
7/2/09
Pages 1-3

FINISHED?
7/8/09
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FINISHED
7/13/09

part one [waste]
Page 5

part two
Pages 6-8

FINISHED
7/17/09
Pages 8-9

FINISHED
7/22/09
Pages 9-12

FINISHED
8/2/09
Pages 12 -13

FINISHED
8/14/09
Pages 14-16

FINISHED
9/9/09
Pages 16-?

FINISHED
9/20/09
Pages 20-21

Now Discussing :

F1ZZ · Jun 28, 2009

I believe we should discuss the AS first, due to it being Lucario's signature move. Well first off AS is a projectile that has amazing range. AS is used for many different reasons. One way I use the AS is for killing purposes. AS is usually not punished because you should not be using it up close to being with and is usually not outranged. I would rate it 9 since it is such a strong overall move.

If you do make an export I will be willing to help.

Aurasmash14 · Jun 29, 2009

Not to mention AS is extremely versatile. almost Falco's pewpew versatile just missing a couple of points. (like a faster firing speed and an infinite range.) It's a chargable projectile that can lead to many mindgames, be an interruptor (Like fireballz) edgeguard , punisher, cover fire, Killer, Stage control, And a scare tactic when fully charged. ( also Full Powah AS = as big as bowser.)

HyperEnergy · Jun 29, 2009

Aura sphere is also our only reliable defense against MK's Tornado. Some specific uses are:

1. MK's love to use tornado as an approach from hanging on the edge. Charge your aura sphere while MK is recovering and release when appropriate.

2. If you see a MK approaching diagonally above you with dairs, you can be sure he'll tornado after he's out of jumps. Shield his jumping dairs, then pseudo-stick a FCAS while retreating to hit him out of tornado.

HK Donut of the Blue Fire · Jun 29, 2009

to add to what hyper energy said, this would apply to any character, if they DI out infront of you their landing lag leaves them wide open for you to just slam them in the face with that sucker

AlexoftheAura · Jun 29, 2009

It can be useful in stopping certain recoveries such as Luigi's/Ike's/Pikachu's side b attacks and if timed correctly Ike's upb along with several others whose names escape me at the moment, slows the approach of slower characters and cancels out a nice amount of projeciles.

Ephyon · Jun 30, 2009

Aurasmash14 said:
Not to mention AS is extremely versatile. almost Falco's pewpew versatile just missing a couple of points. (like a faster firing speed and an infinite range.) It's a chargable projectile that can lead to many mindgames, be an interruptor (Like fireballz) edgeguard , punisher, cover fire, Killer, Stage control, And a scare tactic when fully charged. ( also Full Powah AS = as big as bowser.)

IMHO, If you write down a list of AS's qualities, you should also write an explanation about why you think AS has that quality.
That way new cario players will understand how to use it effectively. like, if you say it works as a punisher, you could list a couple of examples AS is good at that. pretty much like hyperenergy did.
these are just my two cents though.

Da-D-Mon-109 · Jun 30, 2009

:flame:
I rather enjoy using it to cover my mistakes.

Whenever I get knocked off of the stage and need to recover, I charge the Aura Sphere as I'm floating downward, and fire it at just above the ledge. It scares enemeys away from the ledge, stoping edgehoggers, and an enemey waiting to hit me will usually have to run away or dodge it, giving me enough time to grab the ledge or recover, depending on what I need to do.

And on the battle field itself, Wiff a Forward Smash. Your opponent will usually come right at you. But if you are fast enough, you can use that stored Fully Charged Aura Sphere, and blast them with it at point Blank Range. People will begin to expect this over time though, if you do it a lot, so try not to wiff too many attacks. But the speed of it's launching, and the fac that there aren't too many things that can stop it by too many people makes it a pretty good move to do.

When you really get down to it, the Aura Sphere is probably Lucario's greatest technique. It can be used for recovery in a sense, the small ones to camp and annoy enemies, the big ones for their knockback and kill ability, and in general to just f*&^ with your enemy. I'd give it no less than a 9, but I wouldn't be exagerating when I say it deserves a 10.
:flame:

Timbers · Jun 30, 2009

is a good move unless your opponents are grounded and know what a shield button is

D. Disciple · Jun 30, 2009

unless they are lying on the ground Timbers.

Kitamerby · Jun 30, 2009

Aura Sphere is the worst projectile in the game. I can think of more uses for Morph Ball Bombs.

D. Disciple said:
unless they are lying on the ground Timbers.

Aura Sphere tech chase too good.

Anyways, Aura Sphere is probably our most reliable option to B-reverse to avoid juggling, since while Force Palm seems to give us a bigger push, we can airdodge out of Aura Sphere.

Also, I like aura charging, then shielding and canceling it with an aerial on someone who thinks I'm vulnerable (AKA most everyone who lacks lucario experience) and tries to punish my not-so-vulnerability.

Also, when sent flying against someone like DDD, our best bet is usually to BAS backwards and prep a bair to try to beat out their high-priority aerial.

Also, did anyone mention that it completely destroys landing frames due to its size and speed?

Also, alot of times it can hit people off the ledge once you get high enough. Most people are smart enough to not give you a chance, but if they aren't try to see if it'll work on your opponent. If it works, you probably just got a free kill. If not, you just wasted like 3 seconds of the match. You can't really lose with those odds.

Browny · Jun 30, 2009

Always fire AS from a shorthop...

seriously. Unless you're deliberately trying to catch landing lag frames. Also I use FCAS pretty much exclusively lol. every single second youre not being hit by the enemy should be spent charging one up. play like youre toon link or something with bombs

Ephyon · Jun 30, 2009

what about using aurasphere offstage, during recovery for example?
let's assume we're sent offstage with a full AS ready. we all know FCAS somewhat pushes back luc upon firing.
do you guys think it's more useful to throw it at the opponent trying to edgeguard and meddle with him, or throw it to the borders of the screen to help the recovery with the push back? Can it be used effectively after a dair to temporary stall our fall?
BAS as well. do you find it of any use while being offstage?

iRJi · Jun 30, 2009

Ephyon_SylphShroud said:
what about using aurasphere offstage, during recovery for example?
let's assume we're sent offstage with a full AS ready. we all know FCAS somewhat pushes back luc upon firing.
do you guys think it's more useful to throw it at the opponent trying to edgeguard and meddle with him, or throw it to the borders of the screen to help the recovery with the push back? Can it be used effectively after a dair to temporary stall our fall?
BAS as well. do you find it of any use while being offstage?

Its most of the time better to shoot the AS at the person trying to guard you. It makes them have to retreat with a different option to approach, and that give you enough time to go back to the ledge. As for BAS, I actually never tried that option, so I must at least test it. It only seems useful if they are coming after you for the fact that it has little knock back.

phi1ny3 · Jun 30, 2009

Actually, BAS/AS is also really good at making an attempt to stop a edgehog attempt if they are onstage and you're recovering, just fire when they are near the ledge or if they've run out of invincibility frames while edgehogging. AS as a whole has good shieldstun, so it really helps.

hough123 · Jun 30, 2009

^^^BAS can ledge-spike too.

hichez50 · Jun 30, 2009

hough123 said:
^^^BAS can ledge-spike too.

Well Thats a risky move. And if it worked it would be only because its a risky move. Baby AS is pretty useless unless your opponent doesn't have a reflector or absorber or if his name is donkey kong. I find spaming offline is actually effective in some portions of the game its quite funny.

How long is each move cycle going to last. Also are we going to do doges and thinks like wall clinging/wall jumping.

phi1ny3 · Jun 30, 2009

Which is HOW many people in the cast? A lot. Besides some reflectors are really bad for use on the ledge (falco because it's really hard to turn around off of ledgehop, wolf because he falls still). It's still a good move to make them fight back for the ledge instead of always trying to go for the stage (besides, a good lucario should know when and where he should try for one or the other), on top of that, lucario's AS allows him to do what Ivysaur can do to save his ledge recovery, except BAS takes even less commitment than Razor leaf since lucario can just go onto the stage, and it's faster to fire. I'd say it's pretty useful, even by your criteria. Maybe not landing the stage spike always, but being able to harass your opponent's edgegame as a whole.

D. Disciple · Jun 30, 2009

Also if you figure out how someone glides with Pit, Metaknight, Charizard, you shoot them out of it. It's really good if you shoot them as they try to ascend, since they rise up slower, and if you are around 40% or something, a full charge aura sphere won't have any problem hitting them.

But using Aura Sphere as an attempt to recover is extremely wise. If the opponent is trying to edgehog you and he's still on the stage attempting to hug, it interrupts their momentum for a bit and if it's fully charged that shield stun is pretty good if they don't perfect shield it. If they are from the edge and their invincibilty frames are gone, they have to jump away or get owned by it. If it's Fox then it's different, but that's just fox, and you can do a lot of things to stop him regardless.

If they didn't give people projectiles to help get back on the stage, Olimar and Ivysaur would never get back on the stage.

So best use of recovery with Aura sphere, is to shoot some bas's at the opponents to harass them. If you're really good at it, you can momentum shift them too to get closer to the edge as well.

Punishing - For those who overshoot the edge with their up-b. If you have the edge and Marth tries to up-b and goes away over, and he's gonna land on the stage. That's free full charge aura sphere.

Donkey Kong doing his up-b goes over the stage and is a bit high that he goes into falling animation, again a free shot for you.

Attacking gliders - Shoot baby aura spheres at them, either short hop them or shoot them at one level. They will be forced to change their pattern, if they do then you can chase after them. If they like to go up and down, have a full charge aura sphere and shoot them as they are rising up.

If an opponent whiffs with a smash attack or your perfect shield it, you can get another full charge aura sphere on them, as long as that move doesn't have IASA frames. If you do this at point blank range it's most likely your best choice of move to use, since the aura from fsmash wont him them. You could force palm them, but Aura sphere has better knockback in this situation and it gives you some breathing room to prepare another one as they are knocked away, that or you can get in position to become aggressive with some bairs or something.

A good set up for full charged aura spheres would be fair-nair-utilt to aura sphere. Fair-fair-2nd hop aura sphere or if you're still on the stage fair-di away then aura sphere.

Alus · Jul 2, 2009

Bump...post+1

I will not let this thread die so soon ;_;

But i guess that there is nothing left to say about Aurasphere.

FIZZ & Anyone else offering may assist me with my exports. I am kept busy by other things now ^_^

hichez50 said:
Also are we going to do doges and thinks like wall clinging/wall jumping.

Wall clinging and jumping?....mabye...same with the dodges...mabye if we can compare HIS to everyone else's. Because those sometimes [in some cases] have the same use between every char.

Ephyon · Jul 2, 2009

aura sphere charge. noone mentioned it, right? it's still a part of AS, so we should find a use for it as well.

hough123 · Jul 2, 2009

To finish this off:
As Milln said "Aura Sphere is Lucario's Swiss Army Knife, don't leave home without it!"

F1ZZ · Jul 2, 2009

Ok, what move do we discuss now? FP?

hough123 · Jul 2, 2009

F1ZZ said:
Ok, what move do we discuss now? FP?

Well, I think that we should start with Lucario's worst moves and work up.
So either FP or DT IMO.

Alus · Jul 2, 2009

I was thinking D-Tilt because it was brought up around me.

If you want to do DT or FP than this is fine to.

D. Disciple · Jul 2, 2009

Ephyon_SylphShroud said:
aura sphere charge. noone mentioned it, right? it's still a part of AS, so we should find a use for it as well.

Just charge it up, I use it as a way of approaching, so I'm not standing still and charging. If I knock an opponent far away, I do a short or full hop and with the area I'm covering I'll be charging my aura sphere.

F1ZZ · Jul 2, 2009

Come to think about it we should discuss DT instead of FP.

D. Disciple · Jul 2, 2009

Discuss Force Palm, Double Team is just a bad move. You can't use it as a bucket brake. You really can't use it in actual match, since the opponent will have enough time to attack you out of it again. If you try to use at a recovery method then more power to you, but you have better options to try to recover from the edge. Maybe later on in the future if we can actually try to figure something out with it that can be highly useful in our game we can go into a better discussion with it. But we tried multiple times to discuss it and we came up with nothing. No more discussion for double team, I give it a 1/10 usage for Lucario.

Alus · Jul 2, 2009

^
yup....that is the entire discussion right there.

phi1ny3 · Jul 2, 2009

I've only found some use for RDT, but DT = lol, we could really try stretching it, but It'd look like the Ivysaur discussion, where people are just sick of trying to put detail in something really unviable as a whole lol.
FP I vote is next.

PrinceAlus · Jul 2, 2009

ForcePalm starts here...

GO!

harry touchdown · Jul 3, 2009

just one final word on aura sphere(sory i always arrive late to the party)probobly the best projectile in the game.a great finisher as well as being able to counter other projectiles like links arrows or marios fireballs.the move makes killing lucario on high damage allot trickier then other characters.underestimate this move at ur own peril.but its not unbeatable with the right approch.keep close and dont give him much room to breath.if ur character has good jump it can be pretty easy to dodge too.stay on ur toes and it can be avoided.its hard to hit someone in midair with this but if you air you good be sent flying.
as for forcepalm i thinks it can be handy if used right but there are much better side moves out there.i wouldnt use it unless my damage was above 90%

harry touchdown · Jul 3, 2009

probobly the best projectile in the game.a great finisher as well as being able to counter other projectiles like links arrows or marios fireballs.the move makes killing lucario on high damage allot trickier then other characters.underestimate this move at ur own peril.but its not unbeatable with the right approch.keep close and dont give him much room to breath.if ur character has good jump it can be pretty easy to dodge too.stay on ur toes and it can be avoided.its hard to hit someone in midair with this but if you air you good be sent flying.

F1ZZ · Jul 3, 2009

harry touchdown said:
probobly the best projectile in the game.a great finisher as well as being able to counter other projectiles like links arrows or marios fireballs.the move makes killing lucario on high damage allot trickier then other characters.underestimate this move at ur own peril.but its not unbeatable with the right approch.keep close and dont give him much room to breath.if ur character has good jump it can be pretty easy to dodge too.stay on ur toes and it can be avoided.its hard to hit someone in midair with this but if you air you good be sent flying.

Harry just to let you know if you keep double posting sometime in the near future you will recieve a warning. Also what you said was already stated in other posts so there was no reason for your post and please use proper grammar next time.

Ok onto FP. FP is a move that is similar to a grab except it is a projectile. The advantages to a FP is that it has great range but the disadvantage is that it takes forever to start up which could lead to you being punished. FP has a chaingrab (FPCG) that can give some damage to your opponent but not a lot. Someone people think FP is better than a grab because of its range but other people tend to disagree and think a grab is better.

Aurasmash14 · Jul 3, 2009

Harry, what in the world makes you think the luca boards are about killing lucario ?! oh yes and your lucky Timbers isnt here at the moment.. he'd eat you alive.
ok FP, Personally, i use FP only as a Punish, Because of its range being higher than regular grab, I also sometimes do the pseudo chaingrab, (on noobs only though) or use it against aerial characters do bring them down.

5ive · Jul 3, 2009

F1ZZ said:
please use proper grammar next time.

F1ZZ said:
Ok (sp) onto FP. FP is a move that is similar to a grab except it is a projectile. The advantages to a FP is that it has great range but the disadvantage is that it takes forvever(sp) to start up which could lead to you being punished. FP is has a ~~chaingrab~~ chain-grab (FPCG) that can give some damage to your opponent but not a lot. Someone people think FP is better than a grab because of it (sp) range but other people tend to disagree and think a grab is better.

Sorry. Thought I'd point that out. The irony is as thick as honey.
Focus Palm has more range than a normal grab, but both its start up and ending lag can hurt you.

Normal grab is... well, a normal grab. There are more options after a normal grab, more-so with down throw and maybe up throw. It's up to you though. You're the Lucario player - make your own decisions.

phi1ny3 · Jul 4, 2009

FP is risky overall, I'd say grab is usually better, but...
1. FP has more range,
2. FP has that blast, which can sometimes be useful against a character you wanted to grab but they spotdodge, sometimes a good thing against a character who is prone to do that in response to close pressure. (won't go into detail with the rest of this, too long as a whole).
3. One of the best trajectories at low percents for fair strings, rediculously linkable at times, thus you can often, by average, pull off a lot more net damage than the other grabs (usually you can get two FPs at low percent, fair -> nair or dair).
4. Overall, okay damage for the grab.
5. Still somewhat reliable for use in ooJab shenanigans.

Certainly not a huge move that is staple or stable, but it has a lot of benefits (especially at low percents) that make it an ideal punisher (or punish string starter) at times, and certainly a move that will find it's way into typical gameplay.

harry touchdown · Jul 4, 2009

sorry for double posting....most good things come in 2s like ice-cream scoops and boobs and cats...but thats probobly cause im a cat person....(and whats wroung with knowing what the opponent is thinking?)any way force-palm is a great move if used well and handy cause of the whole aura thing.i like too use it as a finisher but the opponent has to be pretty close and have a very high damage percentage.ps apologies for grammer english no goodie lol :laugh:

hichez50 · Jul 4, 2009

phi1ny3 said:
FP is risky overall, I'd say grab is usually better, but...
1. FP has more range,
2. FP has that blast, which can sometimes be useful against a character you wanted to grab but they spotdodge, sometimes a good thing against a character who is prone to do that in response to close pressure. (won't go into detail with the rest of this, too long as a whole).
3. One of the best trajectories at low percents for fair strings, rediculously linkable at times, thus you can often, by average, pull off a lot more net damage than the other grabs (usually you can get two FPs at low percent, fair -> nair or dair).
4. Overall, okay damage for the grab.
5. Still somewhat reliable for use in ooJab shenanigans.

Certainly not a huge move that is staple or stable, but it has a lot of benefits (especially at low percents) that make it an ideal punisher (or punish string starter) at times, and certainly a move that will find it's way into typical gameplay.

How do you break out of force palm I never really understood that.

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