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It needs to be known

SuSa

SuSa

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Landing with a grenade in hand (you are holding B...) allows you to land with zero 0 landing lag. Why is this important you may ask?

1) You can bring your shield up 6 (fast fall) or 2 (normal fall) frames faster then without a grenade. If your opponent is waiting for you on the floor. This is huge because 2 or 6 frames can make a difference (EG: Snake's utilt is 6 frames, many jabs are 2-3 frames) meaning you may be able to powershield something you'd normally get hit by.

2) Mines have a hitbox on frame 2 after you land on them. The same frame that allows you to powershield an attack This means you can safely land on your own mine. Most opponents avoid mines and wait for you to drop elsewhere. Also expecting you to be avoiding your own mine. Pull a grenade, hold down your shield button, and wallah! Safe landing.

I seriously don't feel enough people have seen this in the social thread, let alone read the social thread. So it's own topic it now has.

Discuss.

I would like to thank Velox for pointing this out for me to frame test. <3 you Velox
 
Kinzer

Kinzer

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Kinzer
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Sounds like I should keep in touch/lurk the social thread, since there might be some interesting things I'd want to know.

2 questions though:

1. Can only Snake abuse this since he's the only one who can pull out Grenades?

2. Does this have to be buffered?
 
SuSa

SuSa

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1) As far as I know, yes. Unless someone else has something with 0 landing lag (normal landing lag is 2 frames)

EDIT:
KIRBY MAY be able to, but only if he is holding a grenade after stealing Snake's power with inhale.

2) If you just hold B + shield in the air you will auto-buffer, I've never ****ed it up and it's not hard to do. XD
 
Noobicidal

Noobicidal

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I'm definitely going to be more cautious against Snakes falling with 'nades in tow now.
 
SuSa

SuSa

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Yah, 0 landing lag is great to land > grab with a grenade or land > shield > OoS something really fast.

Although I never see anyone do the latter.. I think I'm the only one to land > buffer shield > OoS dair > blow up mid-way > uair

:/
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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Does this abuse that thing I mentioned to you earlier SuSa, about having a grenade pulled and instantly dropping through it and leaving the grenade behind on the platform as you drop through? Or was that some other mechanism?
 
SuSa

SuSa

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I still have been unable to reconstruct that. :(

this is the 0 landing lag you were telling me about:

"I've noticed that when I land on a mine with a grenade, I can powershield the mine"
 
IxxI

IxxI

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So what shall we call this? FF Grenade land? FFGR? For regular land we can just call it GR? I don't know. xD

I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen, but I'm going to ask anyway. When you grenade land on a mine, the grenade doesn't blow up with the mine, correct?

It makes me sad that people can just hit you out of the air while you try to grenade land, though. Oh well, it's still pretty athsome.
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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SuSa said:
I still have been unable to reconstruct that. :(
Click to expand...
Want me to send you the vid of me doing it through wiiconnect? Maybe you can try to figure out how to recreate it from that? I know how to preform it like 75% of the time offline. I just know that this tech/trick (w/e) has been really useful at times. I've managed to get a few KOs against various characters using this. A couple of times the SV platform was in the way when marth was trying to recover low from the stage. I did this leaving the platform behind and immediatly edgehogged, the marth UpB into the grenade and died from bad DI. Other times people try to attack you as you land on BF when falling, just do this and they end up hitting the grenade while you shield/crouch/Bair (:) ) .
SuSa said:
this is the 0 landing lag you were telling me about:

"I've noticed that when I land on a mine with a grenade, I can powershield the mine"
Click to expand...
And I've been abusing it ever since, and plenty before hand.

IxxI said:
So what shall we call this? FF Grenade land? FFGR? For regular land we can just call it GR? I don't know. xD

I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen, but I'm going to ask anyway. When you grenade land on a mine, the grenade doesn't blow up with the mine, correct?

It makes me sad that people can just hit you out of the air while you try to grenade land, though. Oh well, it's still pretty athsome.
Click to expand...
If you want to name it anything, name it after something that describes it. Such as "Zero Lag Grenade", ZLG, it's simple and explains the whole effect of it easily.
 
SuSa

SuSa

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IxxI said:
So what shall we call this? FF Grenade land? FFGR? For regular land we can just call it GR? I don't know. xD

I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen, but I'm going to ask anyway. When you grenade land on a mine, the grenade doesn't blow up with the mine, correct?

It makes me sad that people can just hit you out of the air while you try to grenade land, though. Oh well, it's still pretty athsome.
Click to expand...
Correct. The grenade stays. :)

__crystal____ said:
Want me to send you the vid of me doing it through wiiconnect? Maybe you can try to figure out how to recreate it from that? I know how to preform it like 75% of the time offline. I just know that this tech/trick (w/e) has been really useful at times. I've managed to get a few KOs against various characters using this. A couple of times the SV platform was in the way when marth was trying to recover low from the stage. I did this leaving the platform behind and immediatly edgehogged, the marth UpB into the grenade and died from bad DI. Other times people try to attack you as you land on BF when falling, just do this and they end up hitting the grenade while you shield/crouch.



And I've been abusing it ever since, and plenty before hand.



If you want to name it anything, name it after something that describes it. Such as "Zero Lag Grenade", ZLG, it's simple and explains the whole effect of it easily.
Click to expand...
I hate the whole wiiconnect thing and crap. :/ think you could send it to someone who can host? Or try to describe exactly what you are doing with your hands/inputs?

ZLG is good, but it's not really an AT. just abusing frames. But I'd apt to call it ZLG. :)
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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SuSa said:
Correct. The grenade stays. :)



I hate the whole wiiconnect thing and crap. :/ think you could send it to someone who can host? Or try to describe exactly what you are doing with your hands/inputs?

ZLG is good, but it's not really an AT. just abusing frames. But I'd apt to call it ZLG. :)
Click to expand...
The wiiconnect thing really isnt' that bad. I just get your FC and wii code, have them register each other, and send the vid. In 24 hours tops you have everything you need to just watch the vid. I can try to send it to someone to host, but it's going to be through wiiconnect24 again to get it sent.

I'll try to explain it again.

1) Go to BF in Training Mode.
2) Place CF CPU on the far right side of the stage.
3) Place SNake on the far right platform of the stage.
4) Double Jump straight up into the air.
5) Pull a grenade and hold it, and press&hold the shield button while still in the air.
6)


Once Snake's feet reach roughly the blue line, you want to shove the control stick down.

If you shoved the control stick down at the correct height, Snake will immediately fall through the platform, with no lag, leaving the grenade behind.
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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SuSa said:
I understand how it works. I hate having to use my wii's main menu. <_<
Click to expand...
Which means you must hate using the wii mote xD.

Also some other stuff with this. If you Bair quickly enough, you can regrab the grenade as you fall through. If you time it a bit slower, you can avoid regrabbing the grenade as you Bair down.

Plus, a SH on a platform is enough time to pull this stunt off.
 
S

Superspright

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I plant mines and then powershield them all day. I do this kind of stuff on instinct. I always had a feeling it was faster. Because I love doing a wavebounced grenade landing into powershields onto that sucker. KABOOM! Absurd damage. I never realized that was why it was so easy to do it. Good find.
 
Ken Neth

Ken Neth

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Most people probably already know this, but I'm just posting it for those who don't.

You can also tech right above the mine and not get hit.


Anyways, good find Velox/Susa. I'll definitely start using this.
 
napZzz

napZzz

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so unless its an attack that comes out on very early frames like marths up b we can drop on everything with a nade and powershield it?

If this is true, juggling snake just got a whole lot more difficult.
 
Ken Neth

Ken Neth

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Not really, any attack that hits you before you land is still going to hit you...

This is saying that you can land on your mine and PS it, so that can save you in some situations.
 
Bizkit047

Bizkit047

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Moondoggie told me about this two weeks ago. So many Snake mains do not know about it, yet do it all the time without realizing it. After he told me I was like "Oh so that's why people always ask me how I power shield when landing so much.".
 
SuSa

SuSa

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2 frames, or 6 frames if you fast fall. More if you use an aerial obviously.

@Velox
I figured how to do the drop down through platform + leave grenade, it's pretty **** legit and I love you. It was sooooo useful at todays tourney. <3
 
G

Gr1mmy

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Drop down a platform and leave a grenade? Don't you just use a soft drop to do that?

?_?;;

Oh and thanks.
 
Pierce7d

Pierce7d

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Two quick things not really important to your techniques.

A) Marth's UpB hitbox comes out on frame 5, so you don't really have to worry about it. He's invincible from frame 1, but doesn't actually hit you until 5. I don't normally have a habit of helping Snakes, but SuSa is a pretty cool cat, so, I'll let you have this one.

B) I'm still unsure if shield is actually frame 2, I have relatively decent evidence to suggest so, but I also have good evidence to suggest otherwise, ad I keep forgetting to run a stable test on it. Obviously, this doesn't conflict with you landing on a mine, but it's just good to keep in mind that it may be a possibility.
 
SuSa

SuSa

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Which means we would be able to shield it assuming we were not fast falling and you used it right as we landed. :x

B) I'm almost certain it's frame 2 ^^; since I've almost always been hit on frame 1 during frame data testing. Also unless we have 0 landing lag it is impossible for Snake to powershield a mine from landing in the air. Making the Zero Lag Grenade almost as good as Wolf's Reflector, etc.
 
vato_break

vato_break

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I heard susa taught this to jonT™,later that day susa had to play jonT™ in brackets and jonT™ used this agianst him...i think jonT™ lost with his snake though..
 
ssbbFICTION

ssbbFICTION

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I use this to fall onto mines but i didnt know that it worked like that coolz
 
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