RichBrown's Random Ideas Topic

I make one of these every few months and it basically consists of a lot of random little idea I've come up with in smash. There's no real organization to this, but a lot of these little ideas have really helped me, and I hope you all can look at this and it will inspire more ideas which you can post here.

K here we go


1. The "Olimar Pocket": I recently realized that if Olimar is played right, the only true weakness he has is the "Olimar Pocket." This is basically the space that is 45 degrees in front of him and kinda funnels into him. We all have kinda known this for a while, but have we really given any thought to this? I realized that for the most part whenever I get hit by something, it's because I let them enter the pocket, which is usually done by jumping just in front of his grab range and into that little space. Now when I play I just imagine this little funnel in front of Olimar that I want people to stay out of. So yeah keep them out of there and you'll realize you'll get hit a lot less.

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2. Double pivot to grab: This is awesome, just run up to someone, pivot in front of them, then pivot grab them. They will think you wiffed a pivot grab and so they'll run in and attack you, and then all of the sudden they get grabbed. There's so much you can do with this, like pivot-dash dance one-pivot grab/Usmash, or whatever the situation calls for.

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3. Purple Pikmin: Are these not the greatest things ever? I used to throw a purple and follow it in the air and do a fair, and while that works a decent chunk of the time, sometimes players catch on and I get shieldgrabbed. So I'm trying to break that habit and instead land and grab. It's kinda like what ZSS does when she shoots her gun and runs in and grabs.

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4. Diddy Kong: Yes I'm gonna talk about how to fight Diddy now. This is my topic I can do what I want.

My golden rule for Diddy: Diddy does not have bananas. Once the bananas are out, the both of you have equal access to them. If anything I tell myself they are MY bananas, and I try to scare Diddy into pulling them out.

The way to deal with his bananas is to try to grab one, then spam pikmin throw. That way Diddy won't know if you are throwing a pikmin or a banana. I like to throw the banana after I throw the purple because they either get hit by the purple, or feel the purple on their shield and assume it's a banana.

When Diddy has a banana, I just wait in my shield for him to throw it, then grab him. For some reason every single diddy I've ever played likes to run in and grab or dash attack the moment they throw a banana. Just grab. And if they learn and don't run in, grab the banana and begin controlling it.

Just be smart about banana control and be very patient. Diddy will get his **** combos, just stay cool when it happens. Diddy is a character that you have to devote yourself to fighting, he is really obscure and can't be beaten by the normal tricks you may use to beat other characters.

Negrolimar is the best in this matchup because the yellow on his suit makes it hard to see if he is holding a banana (dead serious).

You can gimp Diddy sometimes by doing that tether thing that Toon Link does.

K yall better never lose to a Diddy ever again.

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5. White-Purple-Red-Yellow-Blue After a KO

This is how you want your lineup to look. That way when they respawn, you can throw the white and then the purple. With any luck the white will latch and the purple will knock back, and then you can run in and grab (if you do it right purple throw-grab is a combo). Then you can Dthrow them right away into a Fair.

I like this the best because it's an insanely fast 50% and it sucks the life out of an opponent. And if you miss with the white but land the purple, you still get the grab at 6%, which is basically the same as 0%. If you land the white but miss the purple, then they still have all that white damage. If you miss both, you can just go for a regular 0% grab combo. Ya got nothing to lose.

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EDIT (8/4): 6. Whistle Bouncing

Omg this is amazing, I can't believe none of the other Olimars ever do this, and I cant believe I forgot to put it in the original post. Ok so you know how in general it's a bad idea to be above your opponent at any given moment? Olimar is very ground based, so when he's high in the air, his top priority is landing. You normally don't ever wanna land on or in front of your opponent, so you can use the whistle to "whistle bounce" in the same fashion snake does the grenade/C4 bouncing. It's an amazing tool to get back on the ground.

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7. Incomplete Nair-jab-grab

Amazing at those mid percents when you don't wanna stale your Usmash. Jab comes out a little faster than the Usmash so there's less of a chance of them getting out. Because you jab them when they are right on top of you, you can usually run and grab them as a follow up. You can follow up with whatever you want but I like grab because they are usually are shielding when you run up to grab them.

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8. Stutterstepped Fsmashes: This is done by initiating a dash, then canceling the dash with a foward smash. This is an amazing spacing tool. I can't really describe the specific situations of when to use it, but just trust me: play around with it and see what works for you. It's been working wonders for me.

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9. Blue-White-Purple after a KO

I've been playing with this one lately. The idea is you grab with a blue, jump at them and sideB the white, then once you've jumped past them throw the purple in the other direction. It should lead to a grab because since they are DIing away from you, once you've jumped past them and hit them in the opposite direction, they are actually DIing towards you.

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10. Tether stuffs (Dabuz)

my halberd trick, while its in floating form or W/E, run off the stage, use upair then up-b just enough for the hop to let land you on the stage kinda near the edge, the up-b will grab the edge and let oli land on the stage lagless allowing for a grab or W/E attack right after


it works on japes and to some extent norfair as well, actually allows for some interesting mindgames on the center platform on japes (like for people that try to run of one of the side platforms and grab one of the edges, if you predict it you can shorthop up-b and hit them when they try)
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11. Uthrow combo @ mid % (Weruop)

On characters around marios weight , at about mid percent and up, if i get a grab, i usually upthrow to SH UpB. its nearly flawless. if it doesnt hit them, chances are itll be a good set up, sinc u can DI towards or away after the upb. its especially good for a set up if they air dodge the upb.

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12. mindgame stuffs (weruop)

sh pikmin throw, air dodge, land a LIITLE behind thier shield and uptilt = fergalicious

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13. Nair-upB (weruop)

When someone is on a BF platform, i love nairing thier shield and following up with an upb. the upb seems to hit a lot of the time because they drop their shield after the nair.
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14. Options out of Nair (Fino)

Yeah, pivot grabs (if they DI out), jab jab, jab dtilt uair/usmash profit, utilt pivotgrab (at low percents/fatties ... they DI out the majority of the time setting this up), dair, pluck cancelled dash reverse pikmin toss nair (on big characters at low/midlow %)... There are so many things to do.

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15. Blue/Purple KO ideas (PhoenixAlpha)

Olimars, when grabbing, kill with a purple up-throw and a blue back-throw.

I was thinking about this and wondered if it was possible to kill opponents earlier by catching them DI-ing poorly.

Meaning, grab and pummel with a blue pikmin at around lethal percent. Your opponent would DI toward the ceiling expecting the Bthrow, and then you throw them UP for a surprise kill. When doing this near the edge on FD, it didn't appear to work though. Even if they are DI'ing the bthrow perfectly, it's STILL better to bthrow than to uthrow.

According to the kill percent chart on this thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185696
-the color coded one-

Blue Uthrow kills earlier than blue Bthrow from the center of FD without DI. I'm guessing that if you are playing anywhere in the center you can trick your opponent into DI'ing bad and dying to the uthrow from a blue.
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16. More Dthrow ideas (Fino)

fair combos into white pikmin toss from dthrow... additionally, yellow pikmin toss combos into fair from dthrow... wait what?

dthrow, toss yellow pikmin, fair *fair sends them into yellow pikmin* of course, this is old as rocks.... I still think it's funny. It's a good way to continue using dthrow fair, tossing pikmin assumes your opponent aerial dodges after dthrow, and the fair will catch them at the end of it

Side note: almost every single attack combos into white pikmin toss in some shape or form
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17. Fox and Falco (IcyLight)

lastly, if we are mentioning small things....if you are edge guarding like a falco or fox or something, and you have a purple next and you grab the edge, jump off the edge, reverse purp throw their recovery. It also works if you drop below the stage, jump reverse purple and tether recovery, good mix up.

^^^^^^^^to go with this awesomeness, you can also do this with a white pikmin if you know you have to let them recover so you don't get yourself killed, get a bit of extra % in there, drop off ledge, reverse white, recover
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18. Even more Dthrow stuff

Something I noticed: we are all familiar with the mid% "combo" of Dthrow-runfoward-pivot grab. For some reason, people always DI the second Dthrow from the pivot grab very poorly, and it sets up for a fair like 99% of the time. My guess is that they are trying to DI away, and they probably don't even notice you are on the other side of them, so they just go straight up, and then you can **** em up.

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19. Olimar's Dthrow ***** (Weruop)

if a white pikmin is 2nd a good combo is d throw sh throw white pimkin fast fall air dodge up tilt. uptilt when used suddenly breaks thru shields often, and if ur opponent has a white pikmin on, itll rack up a lot of damage during the uptilt and after it

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thanks for the diddy tips :]

I know Oli has that "pocket" where he's weak, but I never thought to just focus on keeping my opponents out of it the whole match. I'll see how that works.

edit: the white->purple->other pikmin lineup is interesting. I'll try that too.

good read man

Amazing Ideas! Never thought about double pivot grabbing, or grabbing diddy after the nanerz.

RichBrown said:

K that's all I can think of off the top of my head I might update this later but there's a good chance I'll never post here again but yeah hope I could help you guys.

Click to expand...

Do you mean in this thread or in oli boards?

And great thread by the way, nicely done. Like Dan, I'm gunna be trying out that mentality of keeping them out of that area.

The Diddy stuff helped a lot.

Thanks.

These are really good ideas to think about.

I remember reading about the pocket somewhere in an old post. But Olimar really has no safe option that covers that area, so spacing to keep opponents out of that area could improve an Olimar's performance. Pivot grabbing aids trememndously in this.

Double pivot to grab seems very useful for mindgames. Factoring in pluck canceling could give even more options. Perhaps approaching with grab in many diverse ways could be useful for certain matchups. Purple pikmin also heavily aid to our approach options by helping clear path and setting up for punishing an opponents predicted action.

The Diddy matchup is often complicated and I take any advice on it. Camping with bananas is very effective and the tip about the costume is nice. =p

The pikmin line up in preparation for your opponent is certainly thought provoking. Starting with a white and purple and keeping a yellow for a guaranteed fair is nice.

Dyyne said:

Do you mean in this thread or in oli boards?

And great thread by the way, nicely done. Like Dan, I'm gunna be trying out that mentality of keeping them out of that area.

Click to expand...

I meant the topic, but seeing as I'm posting here now that doesn't matter either =)

It's a laggy solution to that weakness. But yes, you're right.

Good luck using it to hit enemies out of that area consistently.

i cant believe that nobody made a topic like this soonder xD
im gunna add on some of my own random ideas and techniques later in case any1 cares

SuSa said:

Remember Rich.

2>6
Except at low %'s when you are still gimpable.

/watches everyone flame me XD

Click to expand...

2pikmin>6?

-looks at u-
-points at door-

Haha well at least you were smart enough to put your flame shield up

Weruopppp please post your ideas here I have a feeling you see a lot of random brilliant **** that most of us probably miss

Edit: Updated the OP with "whistle bouncing"

Having 2 pikmin makes you predictable, because there are certain attacks you are going to want to do with those pikmin, so your opponent (if he's smart) knows you are gonna go for them. It's better just to have a full lineup and get good at knowing where your pikmin are at all times and also getting good at being able to scroll through them very quickly when there's an attack you want to do.

Although I really realllllly wanna learn how to naturally incorporate pluck canceling into my game, the way Gonta does it, it's soooooo cool. I love watching him play, he just gets a little reckless with it sometimes. But I'm hardly at the point where I can even recognize in time when to use it. But yeah I wanna make that natural.

you're still predictable to me if you are going to be using the same moves with the same pikmin.

but we dont lol

Having 2 makes you EVEN MORE predictable though. Lets say I have a yellow and a blue and you are at high %. It's highly obvious that every time the blue comes around I'm gonna try to grab or Usmash. But lets add a red, another blue, 2 purples and a white into the mix. Now you have more **** to keep track of, and I have more options.

And, as always, it's stupid easy to get gimped with only 2 pikmin.

FYI everyone who has ever come into the Olimar boards and suggested playing with 1 or 2 pikmin has been chased out in a hurry XD

Also: Incomplete nair-jab-grab. Updated the OP with my thoughts on that.

This topic was kinda inspired by Dojo, he told me at Genesis that he doesn't play much but he spends a lot of time thinking about different scenarios to help the time pass when he's at work haha

Cool, helpful info!

Rich if you looking for another useful way to use pluck cancel I came up with this idea to just pluck and run past them then pluck again then run past them over again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipd6vgK0qvE&feature=channel

fast forward to 50 secs and you see me use it, iv also used in tourney and it worked

Haha I met Susa a week or 2 ago, he is super cool, knows a ton about the game. That being said his 2 pikmin idea is the worst EVER!!!!

<333


@Zori: WOW that's awesome, I'm so gonna start doing that lol. That's what this thread is for, random cool **** like that!

AND IS THAT CHARLIE BROWN OLIMAR???? OMG I NEED THAT HACK FOR OBVIOUS REASONS

And cool song too ^^

lol get on aim p4 told me not to give it away but it was like made for you

i can tell you some more pluck cancel tricks too

here are ones i remembered to put on here today
1: If someone is edgeguarding u in the air, chances are that they are not going to air dodge, cuz thats just sorta dumb. if u read them and think its safe, then a good option is to press back(to drop off the edge) and then upb immediately afterward and DI onto the stage

2: On characters around marios weight , at about mid percent and up, if i get a grab, i usually upthrow to SH UpB. its nearly flawless. if it doesnt hit them, chances are itll be a good set up, sinc u can DI towards or away after the upb. its especially good for a set up if they air dodge the upb.

3. sh pikmin throw, air dodge, land a LIITLE behind thier shield and uptilt = fergalicious

4.When someone is on a BF platform, i love nairing thier shield and following up with an upb. the upb seems to hit a lot of the time because they drop their shield after the nair.

thats basically all ive got for now
also, im about to make a thread about something that Olimars who are good at watching their lines should explore a little

Great stuff Weruop, love number 3.

As for number 4, I usually do a Uair-upB, and sometimes I'll do a Uair-Nair, if spaced right it's pretty much guaranteed to poke through their shield.

Dabuz your tricksies are cool too ^^

i was thinking, can we do nair - nair - nair? like cancel the hitbox on the first one, then nair, then nair/upair/upb again, i havent tested this but thought it might be a decent combo or something

That's probably fairly easy to escape by DI, but it's possible and not hard to do; your opponent would have to mess up pretty badly at 0%. The upb probably won't hit, though.

This is probably a better idea:

SH > cancelled nair > SH > nair > aerial jump > nair/uair > upb

You could always drop the upb and do another aerial or toss, whatever you want.

I just don't think your little thing would work too well.

My tricksies:

-Sometimes after I do an autocanceled nair, I'll just short hop over my opponent and do another autocanceled nair on their backside. One of the mixups I use from there if I've got a blue up next is to just run away and pivotgrab their landing for the kill. (because they twirl up in the air a bit from the nair) It has worked pretty reliably so far. I've even avoided some attacks that way.

-Short hop out of shield and back against glide attacks. I like doing this sometimes when Meta Knight's glide attack hits my shield. I'll jump back, see what they do next, which is most likely a dtilt, dsmash, or grab, and then use falling fair if they use one of those options. If they don't, land quickly and pivotgrab because they'll probably run up and grab you if you do nothing. This works because if you jump up and back none of his ground moves will hit you. I rarely see a Meta Knight use an aerial after a glide attack because in their brain they're thinking...

"Ok, he's on the ground. I just hit his shield. He'll probably try to grab me. I can get a dtilt or dsmash in before he grabs me. If he continues to shield I can just spam dtilt or grab him."

-I thought about doing a project of finding out which characters can interrupt Olimar's autocanceled nair with an aerial. For example, Yoshi can nair you before you can upsmash him, but I'm not sure if you can shield first. I'd like to make a list/chart for reference purposes.

I don't see enough Olimars do this, but Olimar can shield, grab, and shield grab pretty well out of his nair. I'm pretty sure Olimar can shield before Yoshi's nair, but I'm not sure. It may be safe to do a usmash OOS against Yoshis just in case.

OH YEAH another AT we need to start using is something called a W-Aerial , Wair, or whistle into aerial
thats what i call it anyways lol
basically, if u are reading tour opponent well enough, what you do is short hop, whistle, nair into upsmash
i did this against Chip's zair one time this last weekend. i should have really experimented with it more in friendlies but it didnt pass my mind.
we can also probably do this well against D3 upb, (meta glide attack?, peach fair?) MARTH FAIR, ( if they space, then w-fair) and many other things

its really good for a set up for a kill. i think it is something that should be looked into =0

Well, the obvious problem with it is that you take damage from it. But I guess if you reaaaally need the kill, or if you've got a red up next and you can upair them afterwards (24% wtf), then the damage trade off is probably worth it.

well yes but these are things that are usually hard to punish in the first place, so rather than not being able to punish it, u take damage, then deal damage from a fair/nair>smash.
i can find out the damage specific attacks so in exchange for our fair or nair to smash real quick..

also, vs meta upb, i like running behind them and pivot grabbing, but w-nairing seems like another option