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Weekly Matchup Discussion - Diddy Kong

DtJ Hilt

DtJ Hilt

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Diddy

​



Definitely one of the most complicated matchups for Olimar. This matchup is all about banana control. If diddy is able to pick up momentum, Olimar is put into a really bad situation, so the battle consists of Olimar trying to prevent Diddy from getting said momentum and controlling the speed of the game, using his bananas against him.


Discuss!
 
Llumys

Llumys

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I approve of the picture.

Anyway, I have quite a bit of trouble with this match-up. I do suggest people learn how to smash while holding a banana, though. All I can say for this match-up is learn how to play Diddy yourself, get used to his banana game, and watch a lot of videos of Diddy. It's also a great idea to keep a banana while camping, and don't underestimate how well Olimar can pick up bananas with is dash attack.

I'd like to see what happens when Olimar's dash attack collides with Diddy's.
 
DanGR

DanGR

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Unless you're an Oli player that actually mains or seconds Diddy, it's going to be difficult to use the bananas against him. You will never know how to use them against Diddy as much as the Diddy player will know how to stop you and regain control.

With that in mind, it'd be a GREAT idea to spend some time playing AS diddy to understand how his clock ticks. For example, figure out the different situations where it'd be good to go in for the banana combos AS Diddy, and then think about how you'd prevent those from happening AS Olimar. Also, spend some time in practice mode using the bananas and then performing all of the different ATs the Diddy boards have come up with. They've got a compendium in their stickies.

This is a really confusing matchup. That's not to say it's a terribly difficult one, though.
 
Tin Man

Tin Man

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calling all oli mains that 2nd diddy lol

fsmashing with naner could help, it sounds good in theory, there is a guide on the oli boards with help on how to fight diddy kong, i'll try and find it...

nvm, couldn't find it :(
 
Greward

Greward

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I like to play this match agressively to pressure him and dont let him to get bananas out. Anyways dont underestimate diddy without bananas, he's still too good.
He has some problems getting down to the stage, so juggling with uairs is great here.
Ban FD lol.
I dont know anything about how to play diddy =P
 
BOB SAGET!

BOB SAGET!

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Shieldgrabbing works great in this matchup.

U must get atleast one banna and keep it from his control. Once he only has one bannan to work with u can easilly shield grab his dash attacks, dash grabs, fsmashes and dsmashes.
 
Tin Man

Tin Man

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for stage CP's, obviously ban FD, and stages we are bad on like rainbow cruise

brinstar, norfair (if its there) work well, prob one of the best choices

Luigi's mansion, the pillars stop the naners i beleive (if its there)

I'm just gonna give a link to dabuz's stage thread, i think the matchups should follow the characters discussed in the stage thread as well, makes it easier to figure out stage :chuckle:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238692

there it is, check out the stages
 
Dotcom

Dotcom

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No you can always shield the banana, it's just that with good spacing they can react in time with either another throw, on attack on shield(which is dumb but it does happen), or they grab you out of it and then do something else like pummel or throw. I know this MU pretty well, but I just got home from practice and i'm really tired.
 
Dotcom

Dotcom

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To put it frankly, Diddy's not banana game in the right hands is still pretty solid. Most Diddy's tend to avoid using it though because in this matchup, the whole thing revolves around how they can control banana's. Ground game is sub par, but you have to keep in mind, they will always be trying to hit you with an aerial, and form that you can get a good jist of how good it actually is. Diddy can actually juggle you pretty well, and our fairs.. clank if i'm not mistaken so yeah.


Every diddy I've talked to said the same thing, This match-up is all about finding openings and faults in the other player's game. it's just that most Oimar's are so scared and concentrated on banana's we tend not to focus on anything else.
 
*_Echo_*

*_Echo_*

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if they dont glide toss u can use ur f-smash to hit the bannas when they throw them at u, then they run up to u and get f-smashed :) but if they glide toss, dont do it lol u should shield grab them if they do, and be smart with the bannas, dont just randomly throw it because their gonna bait ur throw and get the banna back. when ur camping with a banana, use the banana as ur f-smash, so f-B, they run at u, u throw bannan, then continue to f-smash :)
and when u see a naner on the ground, GRAB IT! when diddy is tossing them up with d-B run after him and fight for that naner, ITS UR NANER TO! :D
 
Llumys

Llumys

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After a little bit of experimenting, nair's a really good option against Diddy. It's great OOS and stops a lot of his not-banana approaches. Wair tends to work well, too.
 
Dotcom

Dotcom

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No I suspect Diddy on wifi 'd be much worse, because when fighting them you have to work on timing things, and how you react to throws of banana's and what not.
 
Noa.

Noa.

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Diddy Kong is a very difficult character to learn indeed.

When a banana hits your shield, grabbing immediately. It stops most of what Diddy will do. When Diddy does his flying kick side B, if you knock him offstage, he can't use his UpB to recover. Diddy's main KO move is dsmash or a fresh bair or fair. Dsmash will usually only hit from a trip and Diddy can have trouble killing Olimar with bair or fair. Try to stay alive as long as possible in this matchup with whistle to frustrate the Diddy.

Yellows are helpful in this matchup because when your'e camping while holding a banana the Diddy might be confused as to whether you're throwing a yellow pikmin or a banana.

I have a question. When Diddy has made us trip, what are our best options when he is and isn't holding a banana? I think that this situation is one of the most important situations in this matchup, so we should know what to do in it.
 
*_Echo_*

*_Echo_*

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Draconoa44 said:
I have a question. When Diddy has made us trip, what are our best options when he is and isn't holding a banana? I think that this situation is one of the most important situations in this matchup, so we should know what to do in it.
Click to expand...
i agree, wat is our best option?
 
D

Dyyne

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Draconoa44 said:
Diddy Kong is a very difficult character to learn indeed.

When a banana hits your shield, grabbing immediately. It stops most of what Diddy will do. When Diddy does his flying kick side B, if you knock him offstage, he can't use his UpB to recover. Diddy's main KO move is dsmash or a fresh bair or fair. Dsmash will usually only hit from a trip and Diddy can have trouble killing Olimar with bair or fair. Try to stay alive as long as possible in this matchup with whistle to frustrate the Diddy.

Yellows are helpful in this matchup because when your'e camping while holding a banana the Diddy might be confused as to whether you're throwing a yellow pikmin or a banana.

I have a question. When Diddy has made us trip, what are our best options when he is and isn't holding a banana? I think that this situation is one of the most important situations in this matchup, so we should know what to do in it.
Click to expand...
If a decent diddy has both bananas, he can easily alternate throwing both of them faster than oli can do....anything, including f-smash to block it, since in this situation, it's more like the f-smash is being blocked. Grabs will get interrupted. If you shield the banana and diddy runs in and, say, dash attacks, there's a VERY small window of time that the grab will actually work rather than the dash attack hitting you.
Never roll behind diddy unless you like getting dsmashed as a result of oli's ****ty roll.
Yellow mindgames...meh. Overrated.
Diddy's priority ***** oli's. Most moves (fsmash, dsmash, fair, etc) will hit through the pikmin. They're also fast, so they'll beat grab often. Spacing is key.
Diddy can edgeguard oli extremely well. By edgeguard, I mean keep off the stage more than off the edge. Because oli is so floaty and doesn't have a good option for landing, diddy can just grab him the moment he's about to touch the ground. You can try nair, but that can be shieldgrabbed. Bananas on the ground will make it additionally more challenging to get safe. Once again, spacing is key. Diddy's grab is his best method of gettin oli offstage, so stay out of that range.

*_Echo_* said:
i agree, wat is our best option?
Click to expand...
It's situational....it's like a techchase, you never do the same option. Regardless, you'll usually just get hit by a banana while getting up anyway if the diddy is good at locking with them. Away I guess would be the best way to roll, just because it could possibly give you the time to gtfo.
 
R

rvkevin

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Things I try to do in this matchup: Never being in Olimar's grab range (i.e. not approach unless Olimar is tripped, use Side B for additional horizontal aerial movement if needed), I don't use the Flip Kick that much, Z-catch bananas when they clash with Pikmin, throw bananas down from above (Put Olimar on the run), get Olimar in the air and punish his landing, shield grab Nair and DI out of Uair. I haven't CP'ed FD or RC against Olimar unless it was doubles.
 
DtJ Hilt

DtJ Hilt

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DanGR said:
Unless you're an Oli player that actually mains or seconds Diddy, it's going to be difficult to use the bananas against him.
Click to expand...

These words are amazingly true. I side Diddy somewhat (not enough to play him reliably in tournament) and it's helped me so much in banana games.

When I have a banana I usually hold onto it while throwing pikmin until the diddy decides to approach, whether he has the other banana or not. If you throw the banana before he does, you should be able to get a shield up before his banana hits you, but you'll still hit him. Also, just like Diddy, if you do at any time hit him with a banana, you get a free grab.

As was said earlier, Diddy is somewhat easy to punish while he's landing to the stage from a juggle.

.com, Llumys is sort of right. If we're standing on a banana with our shield up and our shield gets smaller to where our feet are out of the shield, we'll trip. AZ's done it to me a few times @_@

If Diddy tries to banana and follow up with a grab or dash attack, and we shield it, they... usually won't continue with the grab/dash attack. If they DO, we get a free grab. If they don't, we get the banana. Not that this happens every single time, but more often than not it does.
 
Llumys

Llumys

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Recently, I learned how to use Diddy somewhat well, and it's helped me in the match-up significantly. It's important to all the little tricks Diddy can do, like dribbling.
 
Hobs

Hobs

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Hi, I main Diddy Kong, and play Mr..."BOB SAGET!" here a lot.

I have to say, shieldgrabbing really annoys me. If the Diddy is inexperienced (like me), you can just create a wall of pikmin and the bananas will bounce. If they know how to play Diddy, they'll jump up and z-catch or instant throw it from the air. The peanuts are almost nothing against the pikmin. Don't let the Diddy get any control over you. As a Diddy, I find this matchup to be a major pain in the tuckus.

Then there's the standard "control bananas don't get tripped" and that stuff.
 
Greward

Greward

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Most diddys dont use dash attack on this matchup too much and go for grabs everytime to get us outstage. If Diddy get us outstage it can be really difficult to get the stage control we need, and as long he gets a grab we can easily die or rack up a lot of damage.
Olimar is one of the best characters avoiding the bananas, but its the one that suffers them more.
I dont shieldgrab after get hit by a banana because good diddys arent going all the time for the dash/grab, i prefer to jump oos and z-pick the banana, dair, nair or fair, depending on the situation.
Some diddys charge the upB when they think ur going to throw a nanerz to him, and this usually finish by being hit by the barrell.
 
Fino

Fino

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nxt to Dphat wit all dem azn biches
I played a lot of friendlies with gnes this weekend, to say the least I've reconsidered a lot of things about the match-up. Hopefully I'll get my computer back soon so I'll have to to type everything out.
//johns


~Fino
 
Tin Man

Tin Man

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Using ur sheild a lot can be dangerous because we can then get hit be a fair or bair. Fsmashing off the stage when Diddy is on the edge helps (as it does with most other characters) Our f smash reliably blocks his bananas when thrown at ground level cause of trajectory, and side be can be reliable (sucks for u if u have yellow pikmin) cause of trajectory. Purples help with gimping Diddy of stage, try to hit him while he is charging his upB otherwise he would just be able to side B again, and if he is to close to the edge while UpBing, Fsmash works well. F smash can also work well while holding a banana as a good mix up. Our dash attack is good for grabbing bananas on the grounds, and nair, fair, bair, for cathing bananas in the air. U need to keep the pressure on diddy so that he doesnt have time to set up any of his Banana tricks.
 
IcyLight

IcyLight

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when you pick up the banana with the A button, hold the button down and you can use c-stick to smash. so as you pick up banana keep holding the button. that's all
 
Ingulit

Ingulit

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DanGR, I'm losing my Oli experience, I haven't played you in forever. You just HAD to go to THAT school :p

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237695 The Diddy match-up thread about you guys, if it hasn't already been posted.

I just had this to say for the Diddy side... You guys can pick it apart.

Ingulit said:
Almost everyone in my crew plays Olimar :x I'll edit in my detailed info in a bit, but the main things to abuse are the fact that Pikmin can be killed mid-attack (even Smashes) or mid-Grab if you time attacks right, and even if you are about to get Grabbed you can attack Olimar (or throw a Banana) before his Pikmin reaches you to stop the Grab. Olimar has NO Grab Armor, which you need to abuse because that's half of his momentum-stopping game. I'll admit, doing all of the above is HARD... but possible.

Peanuts stop his thrown Pikmin, as already stated, and more importantly his Pikmin stop your Bananas, making getting to him very difficult. Once you do, however, if you can blow him away from his Pikmin, unless they Whistle in mid-air they won't be able to attack you with normal Pikmin moves.

Try to force Olimar above you through Banana placement and pressuring; it's one if his weaker situations.

You need to stay out of not just Grab range, but PIVOT GRAB range; it's HUGE. This is especially important while falling, because Olimar can abuse the heck out of Diddy's poor horizontal aerial speed.

Learn the trajectory of Olimar's F-Smashed Pikmin as they go off the stage; this is a common edgeguard you'll see and it will nerf your barrels if you can't avoid them.

Attack when he plucks, but be very careful; a good Olimar can cancel his pluck into an immediate F-Smash or U-Smash, so you need to stay out of range of those moves even if he's getting new Pikmin.

F-Air is an incredibly important move in this match-up. It stays out for a long time, will kill Pikmin he is using to attack, and has great range in the air (and is hard to intercept on the ground if you're approaching him diagonally). This is a great way to punish Short-Hopped Pikmin throws or other times Olimar decides to go airborne.

Dash Attack and N-Air kill Pikmin, but the former is telegraphed and, on small stages, will likely put you into range of his Grab. N-Air is just plain laggy unless you use it close to the ground to cancel it.

If Olimar grabs a Banana, expect him to camp you with Pikmin throws to mix-up when he throws the Banana; do NOT fall for this! Just rush him with F-Air or Dash Attack and take the few Pikmin latches, for he can't use any of his really long-range moves like this. Attack quickly, such that if he throws the Banana you'll catch it with your attack.

More stuff later if I can remember why I lose so much vs. DanGR, other than basic skill difference. As always, please correct me if I'm wrong with any of this.
Click to expand...
 
GooseMainsDiddy

GooseMainsDiddy

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IMO, this matchup isn't about getting control of the bananas because that simply shouldn't happen. Diddy has a much better banana game than you guys. As was stated in the OP, this is about stopping momentum and getting the advantage for yourselves. If you take the time to understand bananas better, you will see how you can avoid them and work around them. Bananas beat most of your ground game and we still have fair to punish your aerial attempts as well.

If you do pick up a banana DON'T throw it off stage, we will just spawn another one. Throw it behind you so you can guard that **** as long as you want, really use Oli's fortress-like defense.
 
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