Advanced Grenade Tactics

SuSa · Oct 5, 2009

jack'd

10char

Underload · Oct 5, 2009

I'll be making a video soon, most likely tonight or tomorrow night.

After watching the same Japanese Video that brought us the Instant Grab on platforms, I thought of ways to expand upon that.

Not only can we instantly grab, but we can throw it from shield. We can also fall below the platform, throw the grenade on the platform, and bair. Leaving the grenade bouncing above the platform (untested) or below us while we bair (essentially making the bair extremely hard to punish)

This can also increase the speed at which we are able to camp with grenades while on platforms.

Now with this, I plan to make a video displaying Platform Dropping (which, AFAIK replenishes your second jump), the Instant Grab, using and calculating angles (for better use of stages such as Yoshi's Island, and Lylat Cruise. And Rainbow Cruise <3)

I will also display the many different walls you can create with grenades (and one that Ally showed me to do vs a dair camping MK)

I will also display the sliding spotdodge you are able to do while holding a grenade. (In fact, you can run towards your opponent. Slide spotdodge backwards, then DACUS. Or safely attack without picking up the grenade (AFAIK, if not we can sliding spotdodge TOWARDS them to avoid picking up the grenade)

I also have several other theories on grenades, our tilts, and other uses for grenades that I feel aren't as common as I'd like them to be.

Poor video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RvIkN7vMzs

Also, off topic note.

Who's for me making a thread with all the instructional/data videos I've made for Snake? (even the outdated ones like the Elements of War)

Gr1mmy · Oct 5, 2009

Sliding spot dodge? Like a big slide?

SuSa · Oct 5, 2009

It's minor, but it lets you avoid picking up the grenade, or dash attack/DACUS the grenade without taking a step back first.

The minor spacing CAN help however.

Superspright · Oct 5, 2009

Susa is right. A lot of Snakes are pretty laaaazy. Time to step it up into Japanese mode.

Jupz · Oct 5, 2009

Woah this video will be good, I must have missed out on some of snake's recent techs.

napZzz · Oct 5, 2009

I wont lie, I'm looking forward to this. Keep pushing that snake metagame forward SuSa. Even if what you say does get a little ridiculous sounding at times

Gr1mmy · Oct 5, 2009

I see. Spacing with a spot dodge will be useful.

SuSa · Oct 5, 2009

I'll also be mentioning a bit about dtilt.

It's a frame 6 move with more ground range then utilt, meaning we can punish people with dtilt to keep ftilt a bit more fresh, making ftilt a better damage racker and a slightly better KO move.

You can thank CPU (from SoCal) for him showing me that.

I'll have the video tomorrow after school.

And thanks Nappy.

EDIT:
Quick convo about dtilt for those interested:

SuSaDuctTape (7:37:32 PM): I learned ANOTHER thing from you.
CPUSoCalD3 (7:37:36 PM): ?
SuSaDuctTape (7:37:48 PM): Our dtilt is a frame 6 move with more range then utilt (horizontally), and we don't even need to crouch to use it.
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:10 PM): yeah you can use it kinda like dedede's ftilt
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:14 PM): but yellow grab can still get you
SuSaDuctTape (7:38:20 PM): I didn't mean vs Olimar.
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:24 PM): oh
SuSaDuctTape (7:38:25 PM): I'm talking about for our metagame.
SuSaDuctTape (7:38:30 PM): That makes dtilt AS FAST AS utilt
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:31 PM): yeah it *****
SuSaDuctTape (7:38:33 PM): But with more ground range.
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:33 PM): idk why it isn't used
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:38 PM): it kills SLIGHTLY later
SuSaDuctTape (7:38:45 PM): It won't be for killing.
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:48 PM): it's unpredictable especially right now
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:52 PM): and it ***** for edgeguarding
SuSaDuctTape (7:38:53 PM): It makes for the most legit punish move when we're trying to keep utilt fresh.
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:58 PM): yeah
CPUSoCalD3 (7:38:59 PM): that too
SuSaDuctTape (7:39:07 PM): and it allows us to mix between that and ftilt.
SuSaDuctTape (7:39:12 PM): Keeping ftilt slightly more fresh
SuSaDuctTape (7:39:20 PM): So it's doing 16-21% instead of 10-14%
CPUSoCalD3 (7:39:27 PM): yeah
SuSaDuctTape (7:39:36 PM): So I pretty much love you since World 2-1. hahaha
CPUSoCalD3 (7:39:38 PM): spaced correctly i don't think dedede can shield grab it
CPUSoCalD3 (7:39:44 PM): i don't remember for sure, you're going to have to test it
SuSaDuctTape (7:40:00 PM): It extends our hurtbox, so I'm pretty sure he can.
SuSaDuctTape (7:40:05 PM): Maybe on powershield
SuSaDuctTape (7:40:11 PM): But frame 6 is faster then reaction time, so meh.
CPUSoCalD3 (7:40:17 PM): yep
CPUSoCalD3 (7:40:21 PM): it's a good move period

IxxI · Oct 5, 2009

I'm going to use DTilt now. Now that the king Ally has died, all we have is SuSa.

SuSa · Oct 5, 2009

I'm totally taking that out of context and sigging it.

But you forget about Afro, Candy, Razer, and the other Snakes out there.

And Ally never posted any technical crap. :x Ever.

IxxI · Oct 5, 2009

SuSa said:
I'm totally taking that out of context and sigging it.

But you forget about Afro, Candy, Razer, and the other Snakes out there.

And Ally never posted any technical crap. :x Ever.

Ally doesn't need to post anything technical. He's ****ing Ally. All we need are his videos and we learn from him, lol.

Are you seriously sigging that?

Edit: Yeah, you did.

N.A.G.A.C.E · Oct 6, 2009

i am still pretty new at playing snake but i have been trying to use his d-tilt since i always felt it could be useful. even through its only six frames its not as easy to hit with as you would expect since most the time your opponent is expecting a f-tilt they are ready to shield making d-tilt slightly less useful. It is pretty nice for edge guarding, since my snake has been causing most my friends problems they tried ddd since i was/am not use to that match-up what i found is when they were jumping to grab the ledge from off the stage d-tilt was very useful it hit them a lot and anything that freshens up the f-tilt in the ddd match is a good thing since hes much lighter off the side then the top. yea so d-tilt has its uses but its still is lacking especially in match-ups were the opponent tries to come in from the air.

Also i am excited for the videos susu they sound like they could be very helpful. (also what is the instant grab. i might know what it is and just not know the name but just in case can ou post a link so i could learn it.)

SuSa · Oct 6, 2009

Susu?

Instant Grab:
Done on platform, causes your grenade to go from B --> Holding like a normal item in your shield
Press down then shield really quickly after pressing B on a platform.

Also, dtilt is almost as useful as utilt. (6 frame move), and you shouldn't be using ftilt if you know they are shielding and it won't hit. Unless you are spaced properly and won't get punished for the first hit (just to apply pressure)

napZzz · Oct 6, 2009

I want vids of your snake SuSa

NOW D: <

N.A.G.A.C.E · Oct 6, 2009

ha misspell my bad susa

no what i am saying is that people expect a f-tilt so they have there fingers on shield so they are able to block the d-tilt more then u would expect for such a fast move. also it does have its uses but i would say that up-tilt is a good deal more useful then it. Lastly i do still need more practice on spacing it since i know it does have some crazy range i find i often use it to soon thinking it has even better range then it really does but its just something i will get use to in time. (i wonder just how useful it is. i guess i wont know for sure till i get use to it and try to implement it in my game more.)

Also thanks for the instant grab info.

Yumewomiteru · Oct 6, 2009

Does d-tilt have more shield knockback than u-tilt?

luke_atyeo · Oct 6, 2009

I think alot of you would be suprised at how many moves snake can duck under and punish with dtilt, someone (that someone being susa) should make a list of every move/grab/special/whatever in the game that can be crawled under.

Yumewomiteru · Oct 6, 2009

luke_atyeo said:
I think alot of you would be suprised at how many moves snake can duck under and punish with dtilt, someone (that someone being susa) should make a list of every move/grab/special/whatever in the game that can be crawled under.

We shouldn't let Susa do all the work, I think this is something that we can test ourselves.

TheLastCacely · Oct 6, 2009

IxxI said:
I'm going to use DTilt now. Now that the king Ally has died, all we have is SuSa.

what d ou mean ally is dead? did he quite smash?

Gr1mmy · Oct 6, 2009

It was a joke.

luke_atyeo · Oct 6, 2009

lol alright I'll start testing it when I get home in abit, but it could take me awhile to find time to do it all.

napZzz · Oct 6, 2009

SuSa promised the sexy nade vid today. He better deliver!

i would also be willing to test that kinda stuff out, I spend way too much time just criticizing people on here and trolling. I might find a 2nd person and screw around with this stuff

SuSa · Oct 6, 2009

If I get the **** TV to myself for 15 god**** minutes. T_T

Just got home, people hogging TV.

Tub · Oct 6, 2009

luke_atyeo said:
I think alot of you would be suprised at how many moves snake can duck under and punish with dtilt, someone (that someone being susa) should make a list of every move/grab/special/whatever in the game that can be crawled under.

EDIT:

Tub said:
here it is

I'm pretty sure i made a list like that, I don't recall where it is, but let me look around for a bit.

SuSa · Oct 7, 2009

I'm way to lazy to edit my vid, and I'm bad with following my video plan. So I'll be giving you guys an unedited vid, and you get to see how bad my ADD (I don't have it, but the video is kind of... not planned at all) truly is.

SuSa · Oct 7, 2009

Was hoping someone else would post.

Updated, vids up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RvIkN7vMzs

Underload · Oct 7, 2009

Just watched the video.

Practicing everything now xD

napZzz · Oct 7, 2009

SuSa said:
Was hoping someone else would post.

Updated, vids up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RvIkN7vMzs

SuSa is the guy.

Gr1mmy · Oct 7, 2009

Susa has swine fluuuuu T_T

SuSa · Oct 7, 2009

Yah. Or the common cold.

xLeafybug =D · Oct 7, 2009

Yeah...That video is pretty awesome, should help a lot of people.
I can't believe that the nade bouncing thing is one of the first things I learned about Snake even before the mortar slide, but I've never tried it on Yoshi's Island. Probably because I never play on it.

Yumewomiteru · Oct 7, 2009

<3 SuSa's voice

SuSa · Oct 7, 2009

I hate it.

I'm in Choir, and I have no falsetto/head voice.

I can't even single middle C for the bass. D=

napZzz · Oct 7, 2009

That grenade bouncing stuff is especially useful on certain parts of frigate, something else I'd been toying with

nice to see you putting all the stuff us individual players are probably not discussing to kinda help everyone out.

I'm a little confused with that instant throw. What were you doing? You just muttered something about holding up your shield and hitting A and I dont see how that does anything

its not suprising that the platform thing refreshes your jump, technically you touch a platform which counts as a ground giving it back. But its still cool

Nades for hax tier 8D what cant they do?

SuSa · Oct 7, 2009

Rather then shield dropping to throw, simply throw it from shield. A minor detail that many forget.

Also yes, I know WHY. But still. Epic. :3

IxxI · Oct 7, 2009

You forgot to show us what you were recording on.

N.A.G.A.C.E · Oct 7, 2009

thats a nice video i got to practice that stuff. whats kinda funny is about a hour or so before i watched the video i was working on bouncing the nades on parts of stages it messed with the guy i was playing

. Anyway good stuff

edit: some of these are harder then they look. can't pivot dash attack at all right now. Also i have a bad habit of throwing away the nade i pivot with.

SuSa · Oct 7, 2009

Footrest/stool thing, 2 phonebooks. A coaster-holder with all 4 coasters stacked on top of that, on top of my coffee table.

Just imagine that. :x

And glad to have helped people with the vid. Underload (hopefully, he hasn't directly offered) will be making a HQ version. :D That's shorter, and more to the point then my rambling.

N.A.G.A.C.E · Oct 8, 2009

can you explain the pivot dash attack to me.

is it you tap dash twice in one direction then quickly do a half circle to the other direction and attack. or can you just hit dash twice going one direction then hit the joystick the reverse direction and attack. Also do you use the c-stick or a button to attack do u find a difference in them, and do you need to dash twice in one direction or do you just find that easier.

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