Pikmin Research Thread

Alright everyone. It's time I finally did this. The last version of the research thread was more of a combination of a research a reference thread, and I kind of feel that the two topics deserve two separate threads. So, I'm going to be focusing this thread mainly on more technical topics, focusing mainly on how pikmin work and the glitches that come with them, while the other thread will contain miscelaneous information that is brought up from time to time.

This thread will serve as both a collective area for research for both Olimar and his Pikmin, as well as a first step towards the discovery of the glitches that have yet to be understood.

So, if you want to help out, there's a few things you can do.

-Create conversation on the topics that are being researched. This is simple to do and can help out a lot. Maybe you noticed something we didnt.

-Upload or send me videos of these instances happening. For glitches such as Pikmin Desynchs, we still have problems recreating and aren't sure if there is yet an effective way to apply these glitches. If you have a video of it happening, perhaps we will be able to decipher how to recreate such a glitch and find out if there is some way we can apply it to Olimar's metagame.

-Actually spend some time trying to figure it out as well. A few Olimar mains have been a big help in trying to help find these answers, so I know it hasn't only been me. This helps a lot, not only in progress, but my moral. So that it doesn't seem like I have as much of a load to carry. Anyone that would like to discuss things they've figured out in here or with me in AIM is more than welcomed.

Part One – Phases of Pikmin Animations

I currently have eighteen known phases that pikmin can undergo as their animations. There may be more that I can’t think of. This section will not be important to many people. This is basically just a reference for myself and others that are testing things with me. If you don't want to read a bunch of small pieces of information that don't have TOO much to do with Ghost Pikmin/Desyncs/etc, i suggest you skip to the next section.

Following
The most basic of the animations. The pikmin is basically just… following Olimar. This is the phase in which the pikmin is behind Olimar, in a specific place in line. These pikmin can be used for any of Olimar’s attacks, are imune to damage, and whistling them will reorder them, but obviously won’t pull them back to your line, as they’re already in it.

Whistled
Pikmin that were not under Olimar’s control, and was in a state in which they can be whistled, enter this state during frame 13 of Olimar’s whistle. Pikmin in the whistled state are vulnerable to attacks and cannot be used for any as they are not close enough to Olimar. The phase has two states, the first of which the pikmin realizes that Olimar has whistled them back (starts on frame 13 of the whistle), followed by the pikmin immediately returning to Olimar.

Rearranging
Pikmin that are in the following animation will enter the rearranging phase during frame 13 of Olimar's whistle, and rearranges in the line depending the pikmin you have under your control and what your previous whistle orders have been. For more information, see Fino's Guide, "Deflowered", in the section "Pikmin Hierarchy", which will explain more on how Olimar's Whistle rearranges his pikmin. Pikmin being rearranged are weird in whether or not they’re able to be damaged.There have been situations in which the pikmin has had to move to a new spot and became vulnerable for a short time, in the process. This is not completely understood and needs more researching. In all other situations the pikmin is invulnerable to attacks, as it’s treated as being in the “Following” Phase as well.

Attacking – Smash
Any pikmin used for Olimar’s Forward Smash, Down Smash, or Up Smash. For fsmash, the pikmin falls until it hits the ground and enters the Returning Phase. In some cases, the pikmin will fall until it dies. When the pikmin does hit the ground, it enters the returning animation. The down smash and up smash, however, enter the returning animation as soon as the attack ends. Pikmin from Down Smash will also enter the returning (or more precicely, falling) animation if they are sent off of the stage during their attack, canceling the hitbox and the attack altogether. Pikmin in this phase can be damaged but can not be whistled until it enters the returning animation.

Attacking - Aerial
Any pikmin that is used for Olimar’s Forward Air, Down Air, Back Air, or Up Air. These pikmin do not leave Olimar’s line, and simply rearranges itself at the end of the attack. The pikmin used for this attack is able to be damage and obviously cannot be whistled as it’s still in your line and your attacking during the time the attack is used. This phase affects Ghost Pikmin, however it is not completely understand why that is. All that's known so far is that it does.

Tossed
Pikmin thrown from Olimar’s Side Special, Pikmin Toss. The pikmin will travel through the air until it either hits something solid or comes into contact with an opponent. Red, Yellow, Blue, and White pikmin, upon coming in contact with an opponent, will enter the latch animation, attatching themselves and damaging the opponent. Purple pikmin will continue to stay in the Tossed Animation after damaging the opponent, until it hits the ground. Tossed Pikmin can be damaged and cannont be whistled or used for attacks.

Latched
Simply put, the animation in which the pikmin is latched onto the opponent from being tossed with Olimar's Side Special, Pikmin Toss. For every 1% the opponent has, the pikmin stays latched for one frame less (minimum of 60 frames), and the pikmin attacks the opponent every 30 frames it is latched onto them.

Plucked
Pikmin that are pulled from the ground with Olimar’s Pikmin Pluck attack. During this phase the pikmin will continue to fall until it hits the ground, in which it enters the returning animation. Plucked pikmin are weird in that they cannot be whistled until a certain point in time after they are plucked. They can not be damaged at first, but they can, however, be used as pikmin for attacks and are considered part of Olimar’s line when within his range, even though they are not following him.

Chain
Pikmin used for Olimar’s Up Special, Pikmin Chain. These pikmin are completely immune to damage. If they’re within range of a ledge they’ll enter the Tether animation or Failed Tether Animation, depending on if they’re able to attatch to the ledge or not. At the end of Olimar’s chain attack, the pikmin return to him, entering the following phase.

Tether
Pikmin that were used in Olimar’s pikmin chain that were able to attatch to a ledge. They are imunte to damage, just as they were as the chain.

Failed Tether
When Olimar uses his tether while in range of a ledge, but something appears in the way between the start of the attack and when the pikmin would tether to it,or if he’s already tethered to a ledge there times without touching the ground, the pikmin enters the Failed Tether Phase. Unlike when Olimar simply uses his tether in the air, not towards anything, in this phase the pikmin all stay in their chain formation, attatched to each other, until Olimar either hits the ground or is knocked out of the helpless state. For some reason, if Olimar falls to his death after a failed tether, the pikmin appear where they were where the tether failed for a short amount of time before they die and their ghosts appear.

Grab
Pikmin used for Olimar’s grabs. They’re imune to attacks, both when being sent out for a grab and after they’ve grabbed the opponent. At the end of the grab, the pikmin enters the returning animation.

Charging
Pikmin that are being charged for a smash. They are completely vulnerable to attacks,but are still able to be released into the Attacking animation if Olimar is still charging the smash and they were registered at the beginning of it. For more on this, see “Pikmin Rocket”.

Ledge
This is when the pikmin disappears when going to Olimar when he’s on the ledge. In the same as when pikmin are used for attacks they go to the back of the line, pikmin usually return to the back of the line when leaving the “Ledge” Phase, behind any pikmin near by that didn’t go to the ledge. These pikmin, since they are not out in the open, cannot be damaged by attacks. They return to the following phase when Olimar lets go of the ledge.

Returning
Instance in which the Pikmin is returning to Olimar for any reason. The pikmin could have just been used for a Smash and is returning from it, or it could have been confused from Olimar Pivoting too fast for it to keep up. But for whatever reason, the Pikmin left Olimar’s Line, cannot be used for any attacks, and will return to the following phase when reaching him, doing whatever possible to get to that point.

Jumping
When a pikmin in the Returning Phase comes to a ledge it enters the jumping animation, where it gets one jump. It will only do the jump if Olimar is high enough above the pikmin to where he can’t just float diagonally down towards him. The pikmin has only one jump, and when it uses it,it enters the Falling Phase.

Falling
After the pikmin has used it’s jump off stage when separate from Olimar, it enters the falling animation, free falling until it either dies or meets back up with Olimar.

Hurt
Simply put, the animation in which a pikmin is attacked and damaged. It’s still able to be whistled during this phase, and at times used in smashes. These are known as desync’d smashes and are not completely understood at this time.

Part Two - Pikmin Zones

Control Zone
Area in which the pikmin can be used for an attack. This area is NOT only when the pikmin is behind Olimar, following him. For example, if you pluck a pikmin and immediately use a smash, the pikmin can be used for the smash. In the same sense, if you pluck the pikmin, jump while it’s still in the air, and use your forward air, you can grab the pikmin out of the air and use it for the attack.

Line Zone
Area in which the pikmin is counted as having a place in Olimar’s Line, in which he controls. The Line Zone and Control Zone are not the same, as there have been instances in which pikmin can be within hte Line Zone, but not Control. There are videos of this happening that I have on my Wii that I don’t have them recorded at the moment, though I should be able to do so soon. The Line Zone extrends both Vertically and Horizontally farther than the Control Zone, and can even include pikmin that are busy in another action, such as getting up from being used from a forward smash, in which the pikmin cannot be used for an attack, in which case he’s not counted as being under Olimar’s control but is still in his line. Pikmin in the Line Zone cannot be whistled back to Olimar, even if they are outside of his Control Zone.

Conflictions
Vertical (and at times, horizontal) instances of the Line Zone getting in the way of the control Zone includes an instance Fino sent me of him playing on Sky World. He was on the left part of the stage and a few of his pikmin got stuck on the platform directly above him. Because the pikmin was above him it could not work its way around, to get back to Olimar, and the solid platform prevented it from being able to pass through to get back to him. Olimar could not whistle the pikmin, because it was already under his control. It could be reordered with the whistle, but not called to him. When the other pikmin in front of it in line would be used for attacks, and the pikmin that was “lost” came up to being front in line, Olimar would whiff attacks, since the pikmin, who was next in line, COULD NOT be used, because it was out of his Control Zone. This has been confused with Ghost Pikmin, due to them causing the same problem of Olimar whiffing attacks and not being able to stop himself from whiffing them without whistling or getting back the pikmin. However this is not nearly as big of a hindrance to him. So to prevent confusion, I’ve begun calling this instance “Lost Pikmin”, as the pikmin has actually become Lost from Olimar and cannot find a way, on its own, to return to him.

It should also be noted that if a pikmin leaves Olimar’s Control Zone, it gets its jump back.

Entering and Leaving the Control Zone:
The easiest example I can give for this situation is on Jungle Japes. It’s well known that pikmin will get stuck under the stage and jump towards Olimar several times. The solid stage there prevents the pikmin from getting back to him. However, in this situation, it constantly leaves and enters the Control and Line Zone.
For example, to layer out the entire play through of the situation:

In this situation we’re going to consider Olimar has four pikmin, and one, let’s say it's red, fell below the stage and is jumping below him. Let’s say his other pikmin are all yellows.
The pikmin, while right above the water, outside of his Control/Line Zone is obviously not counted towards having a placement in Olimar’s ordered line. So as of now it looks like:

Line: Yellow, Yellow, Yellow
Separated: Red

When the pikmin jumps and enters Olimar’s Line Zone, it jumps into the back of the line just as it would have if it had just normally walked back to him. So it would look:

Line: Yellow, Yellow, Yellow, Red

However, the Pikmin soon falls back down and is separated from the group, in which things look just as they were in the first instance.

But now let’s say Olimar, while in this situation, threw away his three Yellow Pikmin. Or they were all killed by the Opponent. Now, when the Red jumps up to Olimar into his Line Zone, it jumps to the front of the line, since there was no other pikmin before it. However, the control Zone actually extends more below Olimar than it does above him. When the pikmin jumps up, near the peak of his jump, it is actually able to be used for a lot of his attacks, namely Forward Smash, Down Smash, Up Smash, and Pikmin Chain (I’m pretty sure that Pikmin Toss cannot be done with pikmin separated that are below Olimar). For the three smashes, the pikmin will attack while under the stage, as if Olimar was down there too. In fact, if you charge the smash, the pikmin will actually take the position, mid air, as if it were next to Olimar. However, the hitbox for Down Smash disappears when the Pikmin leaves the ground, and in this case It’s never on the ground so it never has a hitbox after the first frame. For Pikmin Chain, the pikmin will actually teleport to Olimar to be used for the attack, which is somewhat of a cure if you want the pikmin back.

Pikmin stuck above Olimar, separated by a solid surface, can be used for attacks, while separated, if Olimar jumps to where he’s below the pikmin and does an aerial. Again, the pikmin will teleport to him. I’ve also been able to do similar things on Mushroomy Kingdom when throwing the pikmin to be stuck behind the pipes.

In some instances, usually during pivots, or in situations when the Pikmin will just generally get confused, the pikmin will leave Olimar’s Line and Control Zone momentarily. This is most notable to happen when doing a pivot grab and the pikmin second in line is used for the grab instead of the first, due to the first being separated from Olimar for a short time.


Alright, now that that has all been explained, I’ll get on to the main matters of business. Things I have, and will be, researching.


Part Three - Pikmin Desyncs

Desync’d Smashes are instances in which a Pikmin is put into the Hurt Animation while within Olimar’s Line and Control Zone, and is in the front of the line. A pikmin in the hurt animation is able to be used for attacks and can be whistled, and the area that a pikmin can be used for an attack while in the hurt animation is wider than the area that a pikmin can be used for an attack while following Olimar. Also, if a Pikmin is in the hurt animation and is used for an attack, it is used for the attack from wherever it is when Olimar releases the Smash.

Creating a Desync’d Smash at will is rarely done, and there are often times only instances of it happening randomly, or by accident. It is also not completely understood how it works or why.

Here’s an interesting Desync Video sent to me by Cook, probably one of my favorite Desync Videos. I had originally thought it to was a Pikmin Rocket. In this video, the pikmin, for a moment becomes vulnerable while in the rearranging animation (in the air) and is attacked by Marth’s Sword. The pikmin goes to the front of Olimar’s Line, but does not reach the area yet. It is just considered to be in the front of his line. Because Olimar is on the ground, he’s able to use his Down Smash, and he does. The Pikmin, being in the hurt animation, does not take into account that it is not actually on the ground and enters the animation for its Down Smash, hitting Marth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYWHGzSgRS0

But basically, for Pikmin Desyncs, the pikmin enters Olimar’s Control and Line Zone while in the hurt animation and the animation is interrupted by the Pikmin being used for the attack. Because Olimar's Control Zone is longer vertically than you would normally think, pikmin can be used while they are above Olimar. Normally a pikmin, while in the air above Olimar, could not be used for a downsmash, as only a pikmin that is considered in the following state (which would be on the ground) can be used for it. A pikmin to be used for a fsmash or usmash normally wouldn't be seen being used while in the air falling towards Olimar, as the pikmin would be going from the falling animation into Olimar's control/line zone, while recently not being a part of his line (meaning it would enter the back of the line). However, as seen in the video the pikmin was first whistled to being in the first or second place and was attacked, putting it in the hurt animation, a phase in which the pikmin can attack from, instead of the falling animation where it cannot attack. This, as well as the Lost Pikmin glitch, is proof that Olimar's Line Zone is wider than his Control Zone.

Part Four - Pikmin Rockets

When a Pikmin is in the Charging animation, a counter is set on it. This counter stays on the pikmin until Olimar either releases the smash (sending the pikmin into the attacking animation) or is attacked (sending the pikmin into the returning animation). However, no matter what happens to the Pikmin itself, this counter will not be removed until one of the above two conditions are met. So, since the Pikmin is vulnerable while in this state, if it is attacked, the counter still stays on it, and if Olimar releases the smash the pikmin is sent from whatever point it was in, as if Olimar was next to it, while also continuing whatever momentum it was originally going through, at an accelerated rate. This has been known to work for Forward Smash, Up Smash easily, although recreating it with Down Smash has been close to impossible. Getting a video of it shouldn’t be difficult though.
Here’s the first video we got up of the Pikmin Rocket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uH3k8IhcNg&feature=related

This is the most simple and recreateable of the Pikmin Glitches, however, like the others, isn't very applicable. Or at least it isn't yet.

Part Five - Ghost Pikmin


Ahh, here we go. Ghost Pikmin has proved to be a problem for quite awhile among Olimar mains, and a cure, as well as an understanding of the glitch, had not been found until just recently thanks to Fino.

However, Ghost Pikmin is not COMPLETELY understood. The exact frame data, as well as how the Attacking Phase exactly affects it is not known, however we know that it is involved in the creating of the glitch. If you're reading this, you probably know how what Ghost Pikmin will do to you, but don't know the cure.

Before I go any farther, here is a video of Fino both creating and curing Ghost Pikmin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K7Vy66hOOI

He explains how Ghost Pikmin works to an extent but I'm going to write it out detailed just for reference, as a few of the things he said were incorrect.

For one, the pikmin that you use for the attack is not always the one that is Ghosted. Even though Ghost Pikmin can be recreated, the exact way that it is done is still not completely known, leaving us to lean on theories.

To understand Ghost Pikmin you have to understand the Ledge Animation for pikmin. Basically, on a certain frame after Olimar grabs the ledge, each of his pikmin, one by one, will also grab the ledge. The opposite is also true in that after Olimar lets go of the ledge, one by one the pikmin will return from being in the disappeared ledge state and go back to following Olimar. My theory on Ghost Pikmin is that the pikmin enters and leaves the Ledge State at the exact same time. However, this still leaves the following questions:

-How and Why does attack affect this. I haven't been able to cause Ghost Pikmin without throwing out an aerial right before grabbing the ledge. The pikmin ghosted is not always the one that is used for the aerial, but the pikmin shuffling to the back of the line definitely does affect the glitch in some way.

-Exactly why is the pikmin still thought to be in that area, but still in Olimar's line zone. This question may never be answered.

As for how ghost pikmin works after it happens, basically, the pikmin is still thought to be in Olimar's Line Zone, but not his Control Zone. Thus, the pikmin follows all line patters, however, once reaching the front of the line, cannot be used for any attack, causing the attack to whiff, as if Olimar doesn't have any pikmin at all. If the attack is one that uses only one pikmin (anything but down smash and pikmin chain), Olimar's line will not be affected, and the pikmin will remain at the front of the line. If Pikmin Chain is used, all of the Pikmin but the ghosted one will be used for the attack, but the pikmin will stay in front, leaving Olimar with a ghost. If Down Smash is used, the next pikmin will be used for the back end of the smash, however the Ghosted one will try to be used for the front end, leaving the problem. Thus, the pikmin cannot be sent to the back of the line, and the problem cannot be cured.

However, it is possible to force the Ghosted Pikmin to the back of the line. Because the pikmin is considered to be in Olimar's Line Zone, it can be rearranged by Olimar's whistle, sending it to where ever it normally would (for more information on Olimar's Whistle and how it works, see the section on "Pikmin Hierarcy" in Fino's Olimar Guide "Deflowered"). However, because the pikmin is still considered in Olimar's line after being whistled, and other Pikmin can be sent to the back of the line, before long, the Ghosted Pikmin will end up back at the front again, bringing back the problem.

As seen in Fino's video, though, it is possible to go to the general area of where the pikmin disappeared, to where the Pikmin would be considered in Olimar's Control Zone, and use an attack while the pikmin (currently ghosted) is in the front of the line. The pikmin will the be pulled back from space to be used for the attack.

Application of ghost pikmin has not been found yet. However, having a cure, and knowing how to cure it (as well as recognize it when it happens) is extremely important in case it happens during an important match.

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So after all that's been said in this thread, you may be wondering why I wrote this.

I need help. This is one of three acts that I'm going to take in attempting to rebuild the Olimar Community. Because it really, really needs it. I will be doing everything in my power to keep this thread from dying. If for the next three months it's just me researching things and talking to myself in this thread just to keep my thoughts organized and laid out, so be it.

If you're not able to help out, suggest ANYTHING you think I should look into. Whether it's something that could have something to do with Ghost Pikmin or Desyncs, or something completely different, it's most likely something that we need to do, to understand our character better. Otherwise we'll just be sitting here not progressing as much as we should be.

Reserved for future use.

i have one video were a pikmin rocket accured, it seems to happen when a pikmin hits an attack with greater priority

Good stuff Hilt. I've read up to "Phases of Pikmin Animations" thus far. I wanted to post this before I forgot the following.

I'd like to add a couple pikmin states to that section.

The "patrolling" state, as I'd call it. You know how when you ftilt across the stage the pikmin will backtrack? If you do this continuously they'll walk backwards when you do the ftilt and then turn around and walk towards you as the ftilt is finishing.

I'd separate the whistling state into two categories. The listening and [insert name here] state (I don't know what I'd call it. <_<). As I recall, the pikmin stop for a split second once you whistle. That'd be the listening state. The [insert name here] state would be when the pikmin fly back to you.

You could be more specific about the plucked state. You mentioned that the pikmin are usable during some of the beginning frames of the pluck. If we could found out how many frames that is, and if it's extended to any other parts of the pluck animation (the ending frames specifically) and when I think that'd be helpful to know.

When you latch to the stage without using all of your pikmin, what state do the pikmin not used in the upb enter? The "following" state or the "failed tether" state? I think the answer may be crucial to understanding the "failed tether pikmin attack glitch," where a falling pikmin in oli's upb will hit an opponent when it wouldn't usually have a hitbox. They might actually enter what you listed as the "ledge" state.

Also, in the failed tether animation do all of the pikmin that don't have a chance to latch to the stage (i.e the all of them except the one on the end) entering the failed latch animation or the latched animation? That'd be something to figure out/put in this section.

Grab
Pikmin used for Olimar’s grabs. They’re imune to attacks, both when being sent out for a grab and after they’ve grabbed the opponent. At the end of the grab, the pikmin enters the returning animation.

Click to expand...

Are you sure they enter the returning animation after the grabbing frames of the attack? Or are they still in the grab animation, but the grabbox just isn't there. They're not vulnerable while they're coming back. Also, I think during the initial frames of the grab where the pikmin is visible, there isn't a grabbox. I have a feeling the "grab" actually starts on an average frame, but the grabbox hasn't come out yet.

Charging
Pikmin that are being charged for a smash. They are completely vulnerable to attacks,but are still able to be released into the Attacking animation if Olimar is still charging the smash and they were registered at the beginning of it. For more on this, see “Pikmin Rocket”.

Click to expand...

You might also want to note that Olimar will take more knockback from attacks if he's charging an attack. (something many actually don't know. :X) I'd like to know if this applies also to the pikmin being charged somehow.

Ok, umm... try this out: Run > short hopped fair > fast fall during the end > dash forward> pivotgrab. If you do it really quickly the pikmin used in the fair (I think it's that one) will "bounce" up and back diagonal away from Olimar. I don't know why this happens, but I'd call it the "bouncing" state for now. It may just be a bouncing, returning state.

When I get a new SD card I'll help out with the frame data.

I'll be sure to mention anything I find out. I won't be able to do some testing for a while, though.

I'm really glad this is up. I've been waiting for it for quite a while.

I read the whole thing, so I have forgotten somethings that I wanted to say while reading it. :laughing:

I have some recordings that you might want.

Obviously there's the failed tether lingering hitbox giltch which Dan mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDT8nIh1fVg

Somthing to do with the first pikmin keeping it's hitbox after a failed tether. Perhaps it happens when Oli starts the tether and the ledge is open, yet when it just reaches the ledge the opponent grabs it. The opponent then falls down from the ledge into the hitbox. Just an idea.

I have a replay on Rainbow Cruise with two interesting glitches. The first is VERY weird. I don't know whether or not it has to do with Oli or just the stage itself. Olimar had 5 pikmin and it was the horizontal part of Rainbow Cruise. Oli was standing on the little arc bumby thingy that looks like a hill. Peach jabs Oli, and instead of receiving the knockback, Oli just falls through the stage. Not in freefall, not in a knockback state or anything. I could use aerials and specials. But I was under the stage. I had 5 pikmin, 3 which stayed on the platform and 2 which went through the stage with me. Weird stuff.

In the same replay, I have an fsmash that charges midair. You mentioned it in the conflictions section with Japes as an example. I have a replay of it if you want.

Another phase of pikmin animations I would include is this. You use UpB but before the the tether comes out, you get hit by an attack. The pikmin separate and if you try to use the tether again immediately the pikmin won't join the tether. I call this phase "explode", cause that's all that comes to mind when I see it.

I could do frame data testing since I have the codes, but I don't know how to test shield stun, lingering hitboxes, or hitstun. If you or someone else told me, I'd be glad to do it.

I think I have a replay or two of ghost pikmin too.

Should these replays about all these glitches and stuff be sent to your wii or emailed?

i am curious about your control zones while plucking (creating a plucked fair or plucksmash), when you tether it takes the pikmin out of the pluck phase regardless of whether or not it is in olimar's control zone, does this mean some attacks expand his control zone and can be used with pikmin farther away from oli? such as his tether?

Draconoa44 said:

I have a replay on Rainbow Cruise with two interesting glitches. The first is VERY weird. I don't know whether or not it has to do with Oli or just the stage itself. Olimar had 5 pikmin and it was the horizontal part of Rainbow Cruise. Oli was standing on the little arc bumby thingy that looks like a hill. Peach jabs Oli, and instead of receiving the knockback, Oli just falls through the stage. Not in freefall, not in a knockback state or anything. I could use aerials and specials. But I was under the stage. I had 5 pikmin, 3 which stayed on the platform and 2 which went through the stage with me. Weird stuff.

Click to expand...

i believe this is a glitch, as i have fallen through the tilted stage part of castle siege (the fd fire pit), and i was just spamming sideb and fell through the stage as i hit the ground, stage was already moving and not in transformation phase. i had died during this phase, spawned at 0%, plucked, sideb, death

I'm 100% sure olimar's fsmash can clash, as do all of his aerials.

If I'm not mistaken, the other character's attack animations stop when they clank, while Olimar's don't.

Hilt has the code.

I'm testing it out right now and can't get it to clash atm... I swear I saw it happen a couple times though. T__T

For to time being I'll retract my statement.

Here are the codes needed for frame data testing.

I'd still like to know how to test shield stun, hitstun, and lingering hitbboxes. I can only do normal frame testing right now.

i did this really long pivot grab oss it was really weird. like twice the length of a normal grab, i have the video

If I left out a part of your post, which I did, just imagine me saying "ok, that's fine/sounds good." to it. xD

-Hilt- said:

i really didn't know that. huh. do you know how much of a difference it is? that worries me actually becuase i charge smashes often haha.

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I haven't actually tested it, but I've heard from multiple sources that this was the case, and for every character. I don't know how much more knockback it adds.

-Hilt- said:

I wasn't able to pull this off could you get a replay of it happening and send it to me?

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I'm going to gamestop in a couple days to get a new SD card. I'll record it then.

And if you're just confused on what to do, you short hop a fair and then start a dash forward and pivotgrab behind you really quickly. I tested it out some today, and the pikmin that jumps is actually the pikmin in line before the pivotgrab, which is really strange.

Fino, that video is pretty cool. But, tell me, what if you run up to the ledge and usmash while the other pikmin are in the line? will it still grab it from it's control zone since it is technically looking for that pikmin so you don't take 30 seconds getting rid of your line?

Great job Fino. Ghost pikmin research has received a huge achievement today. All we need now are specifics like Hilt specified.

I was able to recreate the glitch myself. It's interesting how the pikmin completely disappears. I even checked inside the stage with my unlimited camera hack and it wasn't there. Nice to have it figured out. Along with a cure. Today is a good day.

EDIT: Sure Hilt, it's laugh not laughing. =p

I am really impressed.

This is amazing! I love you, Fino.

I experience the same thing as Hilt. Sometimes the pikmin is located like an Olimar's height and a half above the ledge, and at other times I find it right on the ledge itself.

Thats really odd. The ghost pikmn glitch needs more info to be posted. Its some what of a mystery on the exact ways it can happen or where it can happen.

I just had it happen 2 days ago in teams,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MotSVxgGJfg