Pound 4 offical new ruleset

DJMirror · Oct 22, 2009

so there was a debate about this in the pacwest forum

so what's everyone opinion is about the new ruleset?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8685020&postcount=5744

Europhoria · Oct 22, 2009

Stadium as a CP is disgusting

Plairnkk · Oct 22, 2009

I, personally, think it's an amazing ruleset.

JBM falcon08 · Oct 22, 2009

This will help marth players ridiculously.

Come on M2k. Represent son.

Europhoria · Oct 22, 2009

I'd rather have dk64 on random and just stage strike based on match ups. Stadium doesn't screw anyone over, and it doesn't make any matches lop sided. I feel the regular part of stadium is the most neutral stage in the game. You can easily stall out the transformations that you get like a 10 second warning for. FoD does, it basically auto jews a bunch of characters, but that's a random stage somehow in favour of stadium.

>_> Stadium and FD are my CPs against over half the cast. Most of those characters ban FD, so now... gg. I don't get this "spacies **** Marth on stadium" crap by the way. You have so much room to CG in the middle, the platforms are about Yoshi's height so you can **** people on them and the edges make it hard for them to do a squeeze angle and recover >_>

Hax · Oct 22, 2009

goood **** i love u plank

anyone who goes against this doesn't understand how ******** CP's are. i know you're not getting rid of them completely but this is a step in the right direction

brinstar IMO should be banned; it's the last stage on your list truly offering certain characters ridiculous advantages

Samochan · Oct 22, 2009

My opinion is that the new smash back room has accomplished something now. =) Personally I'd tweak it just a liiiittle bit (things I posted about on the main topic), but other than that, very good ruleset Plairnkk. ^^

ajp_anton · Oct 22, 2009

Europhoria said:
I feel the regular part of stadium is the most neutral stage in the game. [...]
You have so much room to CG in the middle, the platforms are about Yoshi's height so you can **** people on them and the edges make it hard for them to do a squeeze angle and recover >_>

?

Europhoria said:
>_> Stadium and FD are my CPs against over half the cast. Most of those characters ban FD, so now... gg.

What keeps you from CPing FD or PS like before?

Europhoria · Oct 22, 2009

I'd rather just play all 6 neutrals and ban everything else then anything X.X

Edit: Uhhh, you know the spacies have **** they can do in the middle too right as well as having the benefit of room to run around and combo? But it doesn't have a top platform characters can run away to and jew slower characters, it doesn't have a really high ceiling or far blastline that tilts the matches for characters that live a long *** time (jiggs) but it's not so small that you see stupid ceiling/blastline KOs are really low %.

DJMirror · Oct 22, 2009

I think the new ruleset have their moments and flaws

like say that ya playing against peach

you wins the first game and ban mute city

so peach have DL or brinstar

the peach player picks brinstar
chances of winning on brinstar is nearly impossible but doable

but with the new ruleset, mute city is ban, and you just ban brinstar

the peach player will pick DL or something

i think with this system it defeat the "unwinnable stage" for certain characters

sorry to anyone that reading this cuz i'm not good at typing these things out

Cosmo! · Oct 22, 2009

good ruleset

cykofox · Oct 22, 2009

Good ruleset I agree. \\

Fortress | Sveet · Oct 22, 2009

i would have rather seen FoD on CP than PS. At least on PS you can not approach and any character has advantage when defending their camping zone.

i still don't see how FoD is more neutral than PS

derfleurer · Oct 23, 2009

Sveet said:
i still don't see how FoD is more neutral than PS

QFT

Poor Falcon...

ZoSo · Oct 23, 2009

PS is really advantageous for Fox against like the entire cast excluding Falco, not to mention the transformations that basically force you to camp or risk getting stuck in an infinite on one of the numerous walls which, although not completely static, definitely stick around long enough for somebody to lose at least one stock from an infinite.

FoD has platforms that are mildly disruptive with an obvious visual cue when they change heights. A lot of characters can easily work around them or even take advantage of them. PS has a giant ****ing rock/tree that randomly makes it impossible to approach one side of the stage for a minute.

Also, why is this in Marth CS?

Fortress | Sveet · Oct 23, 2009

PS tells you which transformation is coming far in advance and is static the duration of the transformation. With every character you can simply see which stage is coming and start positioning yourself ahead of time.

With FoD you can be moving around the stage and out of nowhere a platform comes up and ruins your plan (this happens often during edgeguards on that stage). Also, the shorter platforms are detrimental to certain characters and are way too good for others. How do you approach a sheik who is under a platform, couching?

D20 · Oct 23, 2009

While I don't have any major problems with the rules, I can't help but feel a little bit blindsided by them. PS no longer a neutral because of infinite combos? If this is the reason, then Wobbling MUST also be banned.

Although I wish the community at large had more of a say in the matter (or at least those that preregistered for Pound 4), I intend on supporting Plank and his decision.

Plairnkk · Oct 23, 2009

The infiniting is only a small part of the decision. And it's different when a character can infinite whereas a character and a level working together to infinite where the level doesn't give the same thing to any other chars.

Twin_A · Oct 23, 2009

can't please everyone Plank so great jovb with what you've done. Subscribing for future debate

Twig · Oct 23, 2009

Swap FoD and PS and you have a perfect ruleset. Take one for the team Jon, just because you have an undying hatred for PS, don't bring everyone else down with you =).

@Sveet - **** sheiks camping under platforms on FoD, soooo gay.

ZoSo · Oct 23, 2009

Sheik can camp under platforms on pretty much every neutral since she can ftilt so many approaches.

Twig · Oct 23, 2009

ZoSo said:
Sheik can camp under platforms on pretty much every neutral since she can ftilt so many approaches.

The issue is more of being able to do aerials underneath said platform to get the crouching sheik (if you can bait an early/misplaced tilt), and on FoD 90% of the time this is not possible (to space yourself properly) because of an extremely low platform.

*Shruggs* Up to Jon. Just from my 4+ years of playing this game, almost everyone I've ever played dislikes FoD, or at least likes PS better.

The Newb · Oct 23, 2009

Twig said:
The issue is more of being able to do aerials underneath said platform to get the crouching sheik (if you can bait an early/misplaced tilt), and on FoD 90% of the time this is not possible (to space yourself properly) because of an extremely low platform.

*Shruggs* Up to Jon. Just from my 4+ years of playing this game, almost everyone I've ever played dislikes FoD, or at least likes PS better.

Twig is bad, disregard his comments.

Stadium is worse than FoD, and the ruleset is fine.

All matches should be played on FD anyway. Wimps. :chuckle:

Deleted member · Oct 23, 2009

well, I wish you would have waited until we were finished, but I am also glad that you didn't blindside players later off, so good call.

the MBR rule set will be completely revised in the near future, so if this makes you cringe or worry, I hope you'll reserve your ideas until the completed product is available.

Reioumu · Oct 23, 2009

As much as I love PS I agree with this ruleset to be fair. Though I know Jon has a HATRED for the stage which is why I see him banning it a lot pre-match, but now he can ban another counterpick since he knows he won't be getting Stadium first now lol.

Also anyone find it funny that this is in the Marth boards?

Nakamaru · Oct 23, 2009

If someone gets caught in a stage infinite on PS isn't it really their fault for trying to attack instead of waiting out the transition?

Also if you take off PS of being a neutral why not FoD as well who's random platforms screw over many characters other than marth, sheik, and falco.

This is more for my curiosity than anything.

bobson · Oct 23, 2009

I shed a tear every time I see a tournament with a single-digit stagelist.
...and the only thing people care about is Stadium not being a neutral.

Rubyiris · Oct 23, 2009

This ruleset sucks.

Rubyiris · Oct 23, 2009

Nakamaru said:
If someone gets caught in a stage infinite on PS isn't it really their fault for trying to attack instead of waiting out the transition?

Also if you take off PS of being a neutral why not FoD as well who's random platforms screw over many characters other than marth, sheik, and falco.

This is more for my curiosity than anything.

The stage transformations themselves are extremely disruptive. Many parts of the stage become tech traps during the duration that the stage is turning back to normal, which give an obvious advantage to the faster portion of the cast who can properly exploit it.

Plairnkk · Oct 23, 2009

@mow, i didnt say this was the sbr ruleset, just that i used the votes so far as a basis of what i wanted to do. the official ruleset will be good im sure.

if i planned to make any changes (which i did obviously) i had to do them more ahead of time so people could prepare.

Niko45 · Oct 23, 2009

Let me first say that this is an enormous improvement to the status quo. Here's what I would do further:

Take out Rainbow Cruise completely and move FoD to CP. Move Kongo Jungle to neutral to replace FoD.

Sheiks ftilting through waist-high platforms on FoD is broken. In general the compact size and snaggy platforms really inhibit a lot of characters in the game. It shouldn't be a round 1, unbannable stage. I feel that KJ64 is more well-rounded than FoD.

Moving stages in general are ******** and shouldn't be allowed at all. I understand they are strategic but they are radical and less mobile characters shouldn't have to waste their ban on this. I agree Pokestadium should be CP only based on stage changing alone. This leaves Brinstar as the most radical stage left in the game and I think that defines a good boundary between acceptable and not.

Edit: Another note on Rainbow Cruise is that this stage still leaves a decent sized window of opportunity for fox to stall out for a victory if somebody is jerky enough to do that. But don't rely on people to be nice in tournament. Remove that possibility.

JBM falcon08 · Oct 23, 2009

Kongo should stay Cp.

Brinstar is way less competitive than Rainbow. Both really provide good cps for fox and falco on rainbow, puff/peach on brinstar.

But regardless they should probably both go.

Its time for clean up. The competitive scene just got more competitive

bobson · Oct 23, 2009

Why don't we just cut to the chase and ban everything except Battlefield, Final Destination and Yoshi's? This "more than three stages" stuff is nonsense. Players should not be forced to put up with bull**** like moving platforms on FoD and Stadium's transformations. It's too extreme. What if I'm shooting a laser, but the platform holding my opponent just decides to sink randomly and I miss? With that extra percent my upsmash would've killed later, but now it won't, and I lose BY NO FAULT OF MY OWN because the stage just decided I would. It's unbelievable that you tolerate this kind of stupidity when money is on the line.

Actually, ban Yoshi's, too. Randall is bull****. I can't tell you how many times I was in the middle of gimping my opponent but SURPRISE a ****ing cloud comes from nowhere and randomly saves them. ****ing BULL****. You might as well turn ****ing items on. And this is a neutral! What the **** is wrong with you people?? DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE SHY GUYS.

By restricting it to FD and BF we focus play on the skills that matter without the stage sticking its **** in the proceedings. The average skill will go up much faster if the players don't have to deal with stupid bull**** like barrels magically saving their opponents; it gets rid of the whole ******** aspect of dealing with the stage, which we shouldn't have had in the first place. And the whole arbitrary mess of the CP system is removed, too, so tournaments can be more streamlined. I don't know about you, but I like to win because of skill, not because my CP was bull****. With FD and BF the players can fight like men without having to ****ing tiptoe around the stage and make sure the carpet they're on doesn't just ****ing disappear and kill them. Not to mention that this way the game is balanced the way it's supposed to be without any of the stupid bull**** characters can do on the gay stages. It's simply, objectively, the superior choice for competitive play.

You know, in a handful of states, it's illegal to have lotteries, with lotteries defined as a competition based on luck instead of skill or ability. If you keep stupid **** like FoD and Yoshi's legal, you're literally a CRIMINAL. Make sure you don't drop the soap when you get sent to ****ing prison for life, *******s.

everlasting yayuhzz · Oct 23, 2009

bobson said:
Why don't we just cut to the chase and ban everything except Battlefield, Final Destination and Yoshi's? This "more than three stages" stuff is nonsense. Players should not be forced to put up with bull**** like moving platforms on FoD and Stadium's transformations. It's too extreme. What if I'm shooting a laser, but the platform holding my opponent just decides to sink randomly and I miss? With that extra percent my upsmash would've killed later, but now it won't, and I lose BY NO FAULT OF MY OWN because the stage just decided I would. It's unbelievable that you tolerate this kind of stupidity when money is on the line.

Actually, ban Yoshi's, too. Randall is bull****. I can't tell you how many times I was in the middle of gimping my opponent but SURPRISE a ****ing cloud comes from nowhere and randomly saves them. ****ing BULL****. You might as well turn ****ing items on. And this is a neutral! What the **** is wrong with you people?? DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE SHY GUYS.

By restricting it to FD and BF we focus play on the skills that matter without the stage sticking its **** in the proceedings. The average skill will go up much faster if the players don't have to deal with stupid bull**** like barrels magically saving their opponents; it gets rid of the whole ******** aspect of dealing with the stage, which we shouldn't have had in the first place. And the whole arbitrary mess of the CP system is removed, too, so tournaments can be more streamlined. I don't know about you, but I like to win because of skill, not because my CP was bull****. With FD and BF the players can fight like men without having to ****ing tiptoe around the stage and make sure the carpet they're on doesn't just ****ing disappear and kill them. Not to mention that this way the game is balanced the way it's supposed to be without any of the stupid bull**** characters can do on the gay stages. It's simply, objectively, the superior choice for competitive play.

You know, in a handful of states, it's illegal to have lotteries, with lotteries defined as a competition based on luck instead of skill or ability. If you keep stupid **** like FoD and Yoshi's legal, you're literally a CRIMINAL. Make sure you don't drop the soap when you get sent to ****ing prison for life, *******s.

This is the best, most hilarious post I've read in a long, long while.

Also, PS for FoD or both of them gone. :3

Eggm · Oct 23, 2009

Switch FoD for PS do it plank.

We all know you hate PS, but cmon.

Niko45 · Oct 23, 2009

JBM I agree that Kongo is better is in theory a CP stage but by stage striking you need an odd number of neutrals and between FoD, PS, and Kongo I think Kongo is most neutral.

wool · Oct 23, 2009

I wish you could CP jungle japes

Plairnkk · Oct 23, 2009

No way, saying PS is more neutral than FOD is a joke. Slightly moving platforms and totally standard ledges or a completely transforming stage that allows infinites and is huge which promotes the same characters to run away and shoot lasers and camp while the sides of the stage have horrible camera angles and you can get stuck under the ledges depending on the angle you go.

None of these things themselves would be that bad, but ALL of them combined on a NEUTRAL stage? No way, man.

How can you even compare that to platforms moving up and down? lol

Eggm · Oct 23, 2009

PS satdium is really 5 stages. 3 of the 5 I believe if standalone stages would be neutrals. The other 2 are pretty stupid and campy, but you can just really safely wait them out if your smart. It just really delays the game for about a minute. Which isn't that big a deal IMO.

FoD isn't just dumb cause of the platforms, its like | | Big across lol.

wool · Oct 23, 2009

only reason why i think PS shouldn't be a neutral is because the camera angles mess up sometimes.
thats really the only reason why i see it being a CP, but since its minor I think it should be a neutral
but i just hate FoD with a passion haha.
Jungle Japes all the way.

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