buffering? (and maybe a new look at frame data)

Hey everyone, I've been editing Sheiks pac. file so I can get hit box's to show (way easier said than done).
From my understanding I'm pretty sure I found something that most people don't know.

You see, when you perform a move it takes exactly 1 frame for the game to recognize you inputted something.
Then you have the rest of the frame's to pass until you perform the move.
This can easily lead to confusion when people are using the frame by frame code instead of looking at file data. If they didn't buffer they will have 1 more frame than if the move was buffered.


Now you see it makes a lot of sense. The buffering system is there so that your character will perform a move if they can in the next 10 frames. Thus it already recognizes the move and you wont have that 1 frame of extra lag.

This makes Sheiks f-tilt a frame 4 move when buffered instead of a frame 5 move when not buffered.
People with frame data threads need to add this data to their OP.
It would make a small difference when people are looking at combo's and frame advantage.



*flame shield*
I understand that some of you already know this. If anyone ever looked at the pac. file for frame data they would see this. I ask that you don't spam that this is known because frankly I bet it has been known for a while. However, it doesn't appear to be common knowledge because I don't see anyone's (or at least the ones I have seen) frame data thread showing that these moves are 1 frame less.

If you are curious as to why ZSS/Squirtle have frame 1 jabs and that Marth has 1 frame invincibility on his DS I can only answer that with a "IDK". I am just looking at Sheiks pac. I communicating what I see.

So if I spotdodge with G&W, then buffer a jab, it will hit on frame 3? (G&W's jab comes out frame 4)

Has this been tested? Or did I misinterpret what you said.

Is this also true for G&W's bukit brake? When my character gets hit by an attack and I buffer a nair (if that's possible) the nair will come out 1 frame sooner. Then when I buffer a bukit it will come out 1 frame sooner (frame 0 i believe) and stop my momentum?

I'm not sure this is correct except for movement/position in frame changes, for reasons stated by above posters.

Kewkky said:

I didn't know this.

Hmm... Frame 0 jabs and invincibility... Sexy. I wonder if it depends on the type of attacks, or any other factors.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's impossible.
That is the thing that confuses me.

UTD Zac said:

So if I spotdodge with G&W, then buffer a jab, it will hit on frame 3? (G&W's jab comes out frame 4)

Has this been tested? Or did I misinterpret what you said.

Is this also true for G&W's bukit brake? When my character gets hit by an attack and I buffer a nair (if that's possible) the nair will come out 1 frame sooner. Then when I buffer a bukit it will come out 1 frame sooner (frame 0 i believe) and stop my momentum?

Click to expand...

Correct, that should be your out come.

I can't test because I don't have that pause thingy.

Nothing can come out on frame 0. That is like impossible. You can't go faster than instantly.

phi1ny3 said:

I'm not sure this is correct except for movement/position in frame changes, for reasons stated by above posters.

Click to expand...

Yeah that stumps me.
Maybe there is some code to help frame 1 things to where they have higher button priority or something?

Kewkky said:

Thats also what I understood, that's why I'm a little skeptical on the whole thing... Frame 0 jabs, frame 0 invincibility from Marth's upB when being hit...? It all sounds so weird. I can only wonder if it's because specific conditions are met...

If it doesn't matter what the conditions are, then this would mean that what we've been doing so far while buffering, has been taking a frame off of our characters' attack startups. That would mean that buffering is a bit more important than what I originally thought it to be.

Click to expand...

True, maybe it makes it wait a frame because it has to.

:EDIT:
Yeah that's probably it. It's impossible to perform something in 0 frames. So it goes for the next best thing.... 1 frame.
As for normal input.... there is probably a special code to make these moves 1 frame.

theres always 1 frame of "input" lag. with the buffer, there isn't

even though shieks f-tilt is a 5 frame it should always happen frame 6 when not buffered

Ankoku said:

Your terminology is a bit off. As an example for Sheik's jab, which hits on frame 2, the number assumes that your input is on frame 0. Whether you buffer the jab or not still means that it hits on frame 2; frame 0 simply does not happen.

Click to expand...

I agree with this.

Ankoku wins the thread.

I was typing out a very lengthy post, but Ankoku summarized the situation in 1/10 the length, so scratch that xD.

I'd like to touch on this though:

saviorslegacy said:

You see, when you perform a move it takes exactly 1 frame for the game to recognize you inputted something.

Click to expand...

This is incorrect. If you measure time from the point of input, Sheik's ftilt (for example) with take between 5.9999... and 5.000...1 frames to come out. It depends on when in the current frame you input the command.

In regard to your frame data concern people measure actions from the point of the action actually starting, not from the point of input. So the results will be the same whether you buffer or not. /restating what has already been posted