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Weekly Matchup Discussion - Meta Knight

DtJ Hilt

DtJ Hilt

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Meta Knight

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Ahh, the dreaded Meta Knight. One of the most common matchups you'll run into. Some Olimar players pick up MK just for the Olimar matchup. Some people think Olimar does really well against Meta Knight, others think he's one of, if not our worst matchups. How well we do against Meta Knight plays a big part of how well Olimar stands as a character and can greatly affect our tier placement so we need to figure out just how this matchup works, it's extremely important.

So, with that said:

DISCUSS!
 
Llumys

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Interesting. I'll write some stuff tomorrow.

I do have a few questions, though. I know we've covered this, but I'd like some in-depth information for DIing the tornado and what to do afterward. Also, various tactics to get around the fact that Meta Knight renders a large majority of our popular tools useless.
 
A

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Thanks for bringing this match up. I can't wait to see some of you guys thoughts on this match up although it seems like a lot of yall feel as though it's heavy in MKs favor.
 
DanGR

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-Hilt- said:
[ Some Olimar players pick up MK just for the Olimar matchup.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, I'm the only one that has done this yet. >_>

I'll have to take a back seat in this discussion... I need to learn why I'm simply incapable of playing this matchup in any situation. The ditto is infinitely easier for me.

I feel this matchup could potential lean towards 40:60 MK's favor just based on each character's base stats and abilities, but I'm not seeing it at the moment.
 
Sky Pirate

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Someone said something about Yellow smashes penetrating his tornado, but I've only seen this once. Anyone have any input about angles, timing, or specific smashes?
 
BOB SAGET!

BOB SAGET!

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2 things olimar has to watch out for are the tornado and getting offstage. Though everyone probably knows this already. We need to find a way to effectively handle to tornado since we get ****ed up just outside fsmash/grab range. We have to close the distance. Ill post more later.
 
IcyLight

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AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
Why is that?

Another question is is the match up easier if MK is approaching from the air as opposed to the ground?
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mks should only be approaching from the air. if they approach from the ground, their only approach option is sh ff air dodge dtilt/dsmash, in which we can't grab. everything else we can pivot grab
 
A

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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IcyLight said:
mks should only be approaching from the air. if they approach from the ground, their only approach option is sh ff air dodge dtilt/dsmash, in which we can't grab. everything else we can pivot grab
Click to expand...
Pivot grab all of his grounded approaches.

Another question I have what moves does MK use to get rid of toss pikmins? Nado and dsmash?
 
A

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Finolimar said:
Yellow fsmash will beat tornado only at the bottom.

If mk didn't have tornado, this MU would easily be 60:40 olimar.


~Fino
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So nado pushes the match up into MK's favor? What makes the nado so devastating to use against Olimar?

pitskeyblade said:
Meta Knight has the advantage here. In my opinion, he is the best character to use to gimp someone, and Olimar is the most gimpable character. If he gets Olimar off the stage, all he would have to do is a Nair and grab the edge.
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I'll have to disagree if you think Olimar is the most gimpable character then you need to play better olimars. I have trouble gimping Olimar. Also Wario pretty good at gimping. I also feel as though Marth and link are the two easiest characters to gimp.
 
Sky Pirate

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Tornado kills almost all of our moves and forces us into the air. It even goes over our grab if the Meta isn't terrible. It also sends pikmin into orbit.
 
IcyLight

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AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
Pivot grab all of his grounded approaches.

Another question I have what moves does MK use to get rid of toss pikmins? Nado and dsmash?
Click to expand...
good mk's don't approach in the pivot grab area, they don't randomly dash attack. if they can get in our face and spam dtilt we have no options, if we grab it auto breaks out and we are put into a bad position, because dtilt is gay. if they dsmash, we can side step it and then dsmash before they can do anything, but good mk's will dtilt when really close, not dsmash =[

any of his aerials can knock out pikmin depending on where they are on him. tornado does not take them off if they are on his head, as dan just told me tonight, nair is most efficient

Finolimar said:
Yellow fsmash will beat tornado only at the bottom.

If mk didn't have tornado, this MU would easily be 60:40 olimar.


~Fino
Click to expand...
yeah, i can agree, if there was no tornado we would be mk's only counter

pitskeyblade said:
Meta Knight has the advantage here. In my opinion, he is the best character to use to gimp someone, and Olimar is the most gimpable character. If he gets Olimar off the stage, all he would have to do is a Nair and grab the edge.
Click to expand...
olimar isn't that gimpable, only against mk, and only if they are really focused onto gimping us. we have many options and whistle is too good. REFRAIN FROM AIR DODGING IN THIS MU WHILE RECOVERING OR ELSE WE GET A GUARANTEED GIMP ON US if they follow it

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:
So nado pushes the match up into MK's favor? What makes the nado so devastating to use against Olimar?

I'll have to disagree if you think Olimar is the most gimpable character then you need to play better olimars. I have trouble gimping Olimar. Also Wario pretty good at gimping. I also feel as though Marth and link are the two easiest characters to gimp.
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his nado goes through everything we have, it's his safest approach, safest everything. if we jump, mk gets a free tornado. if we fsmash when he is relatively close, he gets a free tornado. if we sideb if he is relatively close, he gets a free tornado. pretty much tornado wins, all we can do is jc our tether while running away, predict a standing tether, or shield upwards

lol i would say marth is easy to gimp, but i play olimar. trying to gimp marth = suicide, mind as well walk off the stage on the other side and let him back on.
 
RichBrown

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I usually just fastfall dair/fair to get back to the stage against MK, and mix it up with whistle/whistle bouncing a lot. Yeah, don't airdodge much if ever.

I hate this matchup sooooooo much.
 
RichBrown

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If you've ever gotten hit out of tornado by a purple, it's probably because the purple barely caught you before the tornado started up. And I think if we have really, really good aim we can hit you at the top with it.

We can nair and dair the top of the tornado.

Oh god, how **** would that be if purple pikmin toss could stop nado -_-
 
IcyLight

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you can hit with any move through tornado depending on where the tornado hit box is, it is jumping over the place and hard to get most of the time but there are certain parts you can go through regardless

uhh, if they are gliding and you throw a white on them it racks up a ton of damage, because they either a) have to end the glide to get it off, leaving them in the position for you to attack, or keep gliding with it pummeling them =]
 
Fino

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This is something important that I can't test right now, but which pikmin / where can you bair mk out or tornado. I've seen it done a couple times, and if you don't believe me watch that new vid of icylight vs fatal.
Bair seems like a good alternative to reverse tethering / other options because it's more reliable, more in control, and less punishable. IMO

Also, regarding tornado, @ffinity told me something that mks are doing now w/ tornado is when they hover over your shield for the whole tornado, they will move just a bit to the left or right on the last couple hitboxes to shield poke you. To counter this I've started to spot dodge the end of the move if they're holding there - you get a free c-stick too.


~Fino
 
IcyLight

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i don't try to not get hit by tornado anymore, i'v learned to di out of it immediately after the first hit every time high enough above it for me to punish extremely easily
 
DanGR

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RichBrown said:
You've never seen me play :p

Ok seriously this matchup is soooo difficult. It's by far my hardest matchup right now.
Click to expand...
Well, I mean there are attacks you can't whistle through because they have too many hits, lol, like Yoshi's d-air for example.

But I'm sure you know that. :3
 
professor mgw

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There's not much hope in this match-up. If you don't get easily gimped though there is a better chance of winning. I've actually found the pikmin chain 2 be pretty useful in this match-up.
 
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