Wario's Week 21 Matchup Discussion: Peach!

This will sure be hyped ASAP!

PEACH

***** slapping, floating shenanigans, bair brickwalls ******* grab releases....

We got early kills, gimps, good survival and nice OoS option...

DISCUSS!

if both players play right it will go to time

50:50

peach dair and fair are really good against wario , and also grab release to usmash, personally i think this match is in peach favor kause shes kinda hard to approach and his aerials pretty much **** us , buttttttttttttt we got early killin on her

40:60 or 45:55 imo

VaNz said:

The general Peach community considers this match up to be in Peach's favor. Slightly. Fair is pretty much greater than Wario's entire moveset. Turnip traps and grab release BS also ***** him. I'll be less vague later.

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Not for nothing but if GR ***** Wario he wouldn't be as high as he is on the tier list.

you guys don't know what you're talking about XD

its peaches BAIR that they should be abusing because it goes through most of wario's stuff...

here's what edrees and praxis do and how they beat fiction, DMG, and Futile

they float backwards, if you try to attack, they bair.
if you airdodge they land and grab for a free aerial.

essentially this is the strategy that makes it good for peach supposedly

wouldn't a FH dair just stop that nonsense?

Her Uair is pretty **** too, it's hard to approach when Peach's playing defensive but I don't think this matchup is that hard, maybe 50-50 if both play correctly.

Padô said:

Her Uair is pretty **** too, it's hard to approach when Peach's playing defensive but I don't think this matchup is that hard, maybe 50-50 if both play correctly.

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Dam it seems like all of peach's aerials are crack on a stick I must be playing the wrong character =/.

LOL

Peach ***** Wario. 60:40

Bair beats his entire moveset. Float + her small second jump lets her beat his spacing. If Peach is floating with her back facing Wario at fullhop height, Wario has no options. Peach can react to anything Wario can do with a bair or a jump away/bair completely safely.

Unsweetspotted bair combos into grab and can punish a missed Bite. Wario cannot airdodge through Peach's bair; the bair autocancels and Peach can grab him out of the airdodge.

Grab release to usmash kills Wario in the ninteys, and grab release to uptilt works through platforms.

Peach has a ton of grab setups; because all of her moves autocancel, she can grab Wario out of his airdodge of quite a lot of her moves, her bair combos into a grab, and her jab results in a guessing game (jab-grab works unless you DI it down and spotdodge, but we can jab-fsmash or jab and wait) that puts Wario in an unfavorable position. She also has a lot of really dumb combos on Wario out of grabs due to grab release > footstool > float to cancel momentum > bair lock > anything.

She's got powerful out of shield options, which makes Wario's pressure game weaker, and she has a set of long-lasting or multi-hit hitboxes that tend to **** spotdodges; and it's dangerous to shield too much due to what she does out of grabs.

Throw on top of this a uair that outprioritizes everything Wario has as well, and a dair that does the same...(though neither of those frame trap or do it as nicely as bair as Wario can just space around them). Then a projectile that can be uthrown to force airdodges of Wario is trying to aircamp.

I've beaten DMG, Futile, and Pwneroni in MMs, and I played Fiction in a ton of friendlies at Genesis and we ran pretty even (the last match ended with him punching me in the face as I grab released him), but he wouldn't put money down and said he'd CP Metaknight on me in a MM and agreed that it was in Peach's favor.

The bair thing isn't some guaranteed strategy, but it's a solid positioning when you have a lead that gives Wario a lot of trouble.

Definitely in Wario's top three bad matchups. However, the only Peaches that actually know all the frame traps and tricks to the matchup are me and Edrees.


Also, I love how Toobusytocare puts it at 50:50 when he can't take a game from me as Wario and counterpicks >_>

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:

wouldn't a FH dair just stop that nonsense?

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When you fullhop, Peach can jump away and bair. It'll go right through the dair, and if you pull away first, no one gets hit.

6-4 seems like an over statement to me. What are the combos out of a GR peach has outside I know she has some footstool infinite thingy but I haven't had a peach even attempt it on me. I agree with you that this maybe one of Wario's harder match ups but I've never felt as if it really was a disadvantage. Plus all of this grab release stuff seems as though it will only wrong on Final D. It also depends on how the Wario plays the match up if their positioning themselves under platforms or near their platforms they could virtually negate any GR combo you're speaking about. Once theirs no GR> usmash peach isn't killing Wario any time soon. Also there's a lot of characters whos X move will beat out wario's moves that doesn't make the match up any worse of less. The wario players needs to play the match up smart. Know that it's pretty hard to punish peaches air> ground game. I can only see this match up swinging in peaches favor on final D.

When you fullhop, Peach can jump away and bair. It'll go right through the dair, and if you pull away first, no one gets hit.

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She can do that out of a float?

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:

6-4 seems like an over statement to me... but I've never felt as if it really was a disadvantage.

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You've never fought a Peach that knows the matchup and plays to run the timer out on you.

I did it to DMG

Without a specific mentality and understanding of certain positionings and frame traps, it's not a bad matchup. But Peach is uniquely suited to handle Wario IF the Peach knows exactly what to do.

What are the combos out of a GR peach has outside I know she has some footstool infinite thingy but I haven't had a peach even attempt it on me.

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Anything she wants. Grab release to double-hit float-cancelled nair (21% damage), grab release to utilt (13%, works through a platform), grab release to usmash, grab release to footstool to unsweetspotted bair to forced standup to- any grounded move, any aerial, a bair lock, or a regrab. I don't bother going for the lock or infinite as it's too hard to SDI-chase, but

Anything the Peach I agree with you that this maybe one of Wario's harder match upsPlus all of this grab release stuff seems as though it will only wrong on Final D. It also depends on how the Wario plays the match up if their positioning themselves under platforms or near their platforms they could virtually negate any GR combo you're speaking about. Once theirs no GR> usmash peach isn't killing Wario any time soon.

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Meh. Warios always ban FD on me anyway. So I won't be infiniting, but that's fine; grab release to utilt goes right through the platforms, Peach has a very good dash grab that carries her a good distance to move her outside of the platforms, and if there's a platform over my head I can safely float dair > jump onto the platform.

Also there's a lot of characters whos X move will beat out wario's moves that doesn't make the match up any worse of less.

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Those characters don't have a float with which to control positioning. Wario can use his superior air control to space AROUND them as they fall. Peach can maintain her position and use her second jump to space around Wario's attempt to space around.

The wario players needs to play the match up smart. Know that it's pretty hard to punish peaches air> ground game. I can only see this match up swinging in peaches favor on final D.

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I can only see it as even or close to even on Smashville.

On any other stage, you're at risk of death getting grabbed on over half the stage, which gives us a huge advantage in terms of stage control.

And even on Smashville, we can refresh our moves by pummelling as you wait for the platform to come by, and thus kill better...though it's definitely your best CP.

She can do that out of a float?

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Yes. There is no lag releasing the float; just let go of the float button and jump. Methinks you don't know much about Peach....

Praxis said:

You've never fought a Peach that knows the matchup and plays to run the timer out on you.

I did it to DMG

Without a specific mentality and understanding of certain positionings and frame traps, it's not a bad matchup. But Peach is uniquely suited to handle Wario IF the Peach knows exactly what to do..

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Ah i see. I more than likely need to play better peaches. Peach run time? I thought peach was like supper aggro dair>dair>utilt or usmash combos or something along those lines.

Anything she wants. Grab release to double-hit float-cancelled nair (21% damage), grab release to utilt (13%, works through a platform), grab release to usmash, grab release to footstool to unsweetspotted bair to forced standup to- any grounded move, any aerial, a bair lock, or a regrab. I don't bother going for the lock or infinite as it's too hard to SDI-chase, but

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Okay didn't know any of her options out of GR. Most peaches i've played only GR > usmash me. What percentages does utilt kill at?

Meh. Warios always ban FD on me anyway. So I won't be infiniting, but that's fine; grab release to utilt goes right through the platforms, Peach has a very good dash grab that carries her a good distance to move her outside of the platforms, and if there's a platform over my head I can safely float dair > jump onto the platform.

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Yeah but the dash grab could also take me under neath the platforms it has to deal with your positioning and my positioning. But I will take note of that.

Those characters don't have a float with which to control positioning. Wario can use his superior air control to space AROUND them as they fall. Peach can maintain her position and use her second jump to space around Wario's attempt to space around.

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That makes sense.

I can only see it as even or close to even on Smashville.

On any other stage, you're at risk of death getting grabbed on over half the stage, which gives us a huge advantage in terms of stage control.

And even on Smashville, we can refresh our moves by pummelling as you wait for the platform to come by, and thus kill better...though it's definitely your best CP.

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I don't think Battle field is bad for this match up.

Yes. There is no lag releasing the float; just let go of the float button and jump. Methinks you don't know much about Peach...

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Nothing at all. Peach is one of the few characters I never tried to learn.

So for what you say plus what how I've played the match up it seems important for both characters to be aware of stage position. Platforms limit peaches options out of GR. With utilt being able to reach through platforms. Can peach follow up with anything after she does a FH dair to land on a platform? Also it seems important that not only does wario need to realize where he is at on the stage but he needs to take note of what the peach player is doing when it comes to her Air to ground games. Since more than likely you can get grabbed at the end of whatever she does.

I didn't get very good stages to run from Praxis on (we MM'd on Neutrals Only) but even then, Wario only feasibly might beat her on "Lol Wario stages" like Brinstar/Japes/RC/something gay.


Wario loses. 6/4 or 55/45. It's not even, and Peach doesn't **** us. Good Game.

Bair is a frame trap on Wario. It act's like Marth's Fair. Frame... Trap... meaning we are disadvantaged lol.

She also frame traps us with Jab and her grab sometimes is one.

To a Peach main, 60:40 is ****. We don't get many comfy matchups :3

Yeah. 6/4 isn't **** in the broad spectrum, but for her it is lol.

Praxis said:

To a Peach main, 60:40 is ****. We don't get many comfy matchups :3

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LoL that's funny. Gotta re define your match ups man.

LOL wrong thread. plz ignore.

Yeah, I think I gotta play better peachs which brick wall with bairs.
Frame traps are annoying as I can see.

By the way I might put 55-45 Peach's favor, because of bairs and a lot of stuff that can be really stupid against Wario like Jabs and tilts not GRs, BUT, I must assume that I didn't find any problems with approaching from above sincerely, when she tried to tilt my aerials I airdodged and punished with a nair or something OoS, I found difficult approaching from the ground neither DACUS worked on this which is a pretty good approach sometimes.

Praxis said:

LOL

Also, I love how Toobusytocare puts it at 50:50 when he can't take a game from me as Wario and counterpicks >_>

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I've never played you with wario XD

maybe i'll go wario once you can beat my kirby <___<



ALSO fair trades hits with bair

and wario usmash (DACUS) beats peach's aerials, except MAYBE dair...

i would advise getting a lead them camping for a fart (thats what fiction did vs praxis) and like i said

if both players are perfect, its a stalemate

It's not a stalemate though.

Dacus only beats Aerials if you get to them before they use the aerial. Bair at least trades with any hit of Dacus. That and getting grabbed out of Dacus is gonna suck lol.

Trading Fair with Bair is not smart in the long run.

dumb matchup that i dont really want to get into so ima just give a number and get out of this thread.
we cant approach, they cant kill.. good enough.
50-50

dynomite said:

dumb matchup that i dont really want to get into so ima just give a number and get out of this thread.
we cant approach, they cant kill.. good enough.
50-50

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Peach can kill if she knows all the grab setups Unsweetspotted bair to grab is a true combo, a jab is a 50% chance of a grab (I guess if you're going to DI it to spotdodge or not), turnip hits can combo into grabs out of a glide toss, bike tires & Mr. Saturns hitstun combo into grabs...

(did I mention that Peach Bomber does amazing things to Wario's bike?)

..........

Praxis said:

Peach can kill if she knows all the grab setups Unsweetspotted bair to grab is a true combo, a jab is a 50% chance of a grab (I guess if you're going to DI it to spotdodge or not), turnip hits can combo into grabs out of a glide toss, bike tires & Mr. Saturns hitstun combo into grabs...

(did I mention that Peach Bomber does amazing things to Wario's bike?)

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I feel awkward reading your comments and opinions since all of them almost say that Peach ***** Wario. I think you are considering too much your ability to punish Wario when he tries to approach, but what If I camp you the entire match? You gonna be throwing turnips on Wario? I bet we can dodge 2 of those with one airdodge with a bonus on taking one of them for.

Really. I play this matchup like versus MK. The difference is that MK can approach and have many kill moves and Peach got one or maybe two reliable and safe one based on GR and another you can land only if Wario mistakes and if you miss a grab or lag an aerial you can be pretty sure i'll be there to give you 20%, and it's a lot of % since we can KO you with 70%.

It's not easy to grab a good Wario and you should know this, If the Wario stays in the air you won't grab him so easily so all those pseudo-combos you said are useless. The only thing that bothers me on this matchup is that we can't approach like other matchups, we gotta be careful but so do you.

My ratio after all this might be: 55-45 Peach's.

Discussion ends on friday late night if I don't get wasted.

You really think DMG didn't try to camp me the whole match?

When you're in the air, I can glide toss a turnip with uthrow under you then jump and punish your airdodge with any of my high-priority long-lasting-hitbox aerials. It's really not that hard for Peach to catch up with Wario's camping unless we're on some kind of crazy stage.

Turnips can combo into grabs when low to ground, btw. And Wario will take a LOT of damage by trying to aircamp Peach. It just doesn't work that well because of Peach's ability to use the turnips for positioning. Once you airdodge the turnip, you're vulnerable afterward and since I used the turnip to move me into a position where I can reach you...

Plus, having a stupidly disjointed dash attack that can hit G&W through his bair doesn't hurt.

peach is a girl.

Praxis said:

You really think DMG didn't try to camp me the whole match?

When you're in the air, I can glide toss a turnip with uthrow under you then jump and punish your airdodge with any of my high-priority long-lasting-hitbox aerials. It's really not that hard for Peach to catch up with Wario's camping unless we're on some kind of crazy stage.

Turnips can combo into grabs when low to ground, btw. And Wario will take a LOT of damage by trying to aircamp Peach. It just doesn't work that well because of Peach's ability to use the turnips for positioning. Once you airdodge the turnip, you're vulnerable afterward and since I used the turnip to move me into a position where I can reach you...

Plus, having a stupidly disjointed dash attack that can hit G&W through his bair doesn't hurt.

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Lol, I don't think turnips glide toss are good enough to put you in a good position and honestly i don't think long-lasting-hitbox-aerials are going to counter our aerial mobility/ airdodges unless we don't abuse from them well btw I think that if you miss one of em and we airdodge it or something you are getting punished.

Also about turnips, I don't see them that useful in terms of positioning, if we keep a good distance between your opponent they will never hit you, it's throw is slow and 5~6% ( considering they aren't grampas, zombie, bob-ombs or beamsword, if they are I'm pretty sure you are punishing me and I'm slapping your face for being that silly after =) ) won't be much problem to Wario. If Peach gets close I just bike to the other side of the stage and land safely, turnips are hitting the bottom of the bike without any worries or problems to Wario.

Peach's game start to shine when you get the lead, if you do so its almost a well called GG because of the ****ty float/bair camp.

Also I want so much to watch a match o your against a Wario, you seem to have a lot of experience, at least more than the peachs we got down here maybe you're playing a wy that most Warios aren't used too or something and this is for sure all your merit. Maybe If you feel confortable to play online we could do some, but I bet there's going to be some delay ****ing up yours and mine game, but whatever...

I don't know anything about this matchup, but no one has posted any videos to discuss.
Cass vs. VaNz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk7CNkdiIoY
First match is awful on Cass' part. Second match he plays well. I noticed that at a few points when Peach's Dair hits on shield it sort of turns into a tech chase. That seems like a tough thing to counter. At about 8min30 he lands a dash attack, thereby winning the match, set, and tournament thereafter. Lots of frame traps.

Bassem vs. Kos Mos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPwvCdNGsHQ
I'm generally impressed when I watch most of Bassem's videos, but these were really boring matches. Bassem CP'd Japes. Is that a good idea? I understand that peach generally kills up and having all that space is helpful to live longer, but it looked like it was hard to get any stage control.

EDIT:
Praxis vs. Pwneroni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps0UdJHEd20
I don't know who Pwneroni is, but his SDI sort of sucked and he got Dair-> Uair -> Utilted a bunch because of it. Other than that this looks legit though. 5:45, GR to utilt? That didn't look like it worked. Was that just to knock him off the platform so you could get the USmash one?

One thing to note, there doesn't seem to be any guaranteed GR combos at the edge. She needs to slide a bit to Usmash or utilt and the ledge doesn't allow that.

Votes are up!

60-40 Peach.

I don't think it's 6-4 and the fact that they feel as though 6-4 is a **** match up further proves my point.

55:45 peach

almostlegendary you're an idiot, rofl

for PEACH 6-4 is a **** matchup because SHE HAS 4590489485049180495804 EVEN OR DISADVANTAGED MATCHUPS.

l2read

clowsui said:

almostlegendary you're an idiot, rofl

for PEACH 6-4 is a **** matchup because SHE HAS 4590489485049180495804 EVEN OR DISADVANTAGED MATCHUPS.

l2read

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??? I don't get what you're saying. They consider 6-4 match up to be ****. This match up by no means is ****. So why should it be 6-4?

nvm you're not understanding relativism

they consider 6-4 to be **** relative to their other matchup which are mostly even or bad, it doesn't mean that 6-4 is anything more than a slight adv.

it's...like a bag of lays' chips or smth
let's say i claim to represent lays' chips and i'm unbiased about it
let's say that lays' chips when compared to most other chips in the chips industry are worse or equal
but if my chips are better than one company's chips, then wouldn't you consider that match-up of chips to be "****" relative to the other chip match-ups, even if the advantage is slight?
bad analogy but w/e

clowsui said:

nvm you're not understanding relativism

they consider 6-4 to be **** relative to their other matchup which are mostly even or bad, it doesn't mean that 6-4 is anything more than a slight adv.

it's...like a bag of lays' chips or smth
let's say i claim to represent lays' chips and i'm unbiased about it
let's say that lays' chips when compared to most other chips in the chips industry are worse or equal
but if my chips are better than one company's chips, then wouldn't you consider that match-up of chips to be "****" relative to the other chip match-ups, even if the advantage is slight?
bad analogy but w/e

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So because they have a slight advantage they overstate their advantages and scream ****? I think i'm starting to understand now.

Wario has a small disadvantage. Lol. I mean, I can beat the best peach in my state with wario and I'm terrible.

We're talking about high level play though.

Wario isn't doing crap to punish peach's fair OR jab on shield . Fair to jab being safe basically ruins him on the ground. He can't shield grab a well spaced dair to nair to jab on shield so massive shield pressure up close too. He gets walled hard in the air by floating uair or bair. He can't airdodge past either because they only have 9 frames of landing lag. New uair string (hai grab release at low precentages, easy 70%) is **** and grab release upsmash is an amazing kill setup (dead before 100 on most stages. New sh dthrow turnip combos are awesome too. So basically she can deal out a lot of **** while still staying safe.

40-60 Peach, maybe worse

Corrupted said:

We're talking about high level play though.

Wario isn't doing crap to punish peach's fair OR jab on shield . Fair to jab being safe basically ruins him on the ground. He can't shield grab a well spaced dair to nair to jab on shield so massive shield pressure up close too. He gets walled hard in the air by floating uair or bair. He can't airdodge past either because they only have 9 frames of landing lag. New uair string (hai grab release at low precentages, easy 70%) is **** and grab release upsmash is an amazing kill setup (dead before 100 on most stages. New sh dthrow turnip combos are awesome too. So basically she can deal out a lot of **** while still staying safe.

40-60 Peach, maybe worse

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you can't bring up the uair strings because it hasn't worked its way into play. No one how much of an impact it will have.

It can be done out of grab release so its a given its going to be used. But even without it, no other character can wall wario as bad as peach can. Wario won't even get a hit in if peach is playing to the fullest of her potential (without being inhuman).

Lol.

Uair string doesn't entirely work. I saw that video. Great concept, does NOT factor in good SDI. Trust me, I looked into it. It's not fully guaranteed on most characters to the %'s first thought to be.