Eggplant Judo: The Pit Chaingrab/Stutterstep Thread

MysteriousSilver · Jul 17, 2010

We seem to be one of the few boards that knows next to nothing about our chainthrow and followups. Compared to other boards who have stack of specific numbers and such, we just have vauge concepts that pop up in threads every so often like "around 40%." I'd like to fix this and get a little more specific about things. I think we have some unexplored options available to us Basically, the information I'm after here is:

1. Can we chaingrab this character? How high?
2. Can we Fthrow->stutterstep Fsmash this character? At what percent does this end?
3. Can we Fthrow->Dash attack this character? What percents? Can we be punished for it?
4. Do garunteed Dthrow followups exist?

I've only done a bit of testing at this point, but here's what I've found:

Metaknight
We can't chainthrow him.
Fthrow->Sutterstep Fsmash works as high as 5%

Snake
We can chainthrow him to around ~~40%~~ 27%. He can spotdodge out. He might pull 'nades, but they'll be left behind you and do nothing if your timing's good.
Fthrow->Stutterstep Fsmash works to 17% (~~You should chainthrow him instead, but if you grab him close to the edge or something...~~)

King Dedede
Chainthrow him to around 40%. Following this up with a dash attack seems garunteed at this point.

DK
Chainthrow him to around 40%.
Stutterstep work to mid percents, it's possible to trade the last throw in the chain for a Stutterstep Fsmash. This does slightly more damage and sends him farther away, hopefully off the stage where you might be able to predict him and MS his Up-B.

I'd like to make those "around 40%"s more accurate and get a complete list for everyone, but that's what I have so far.

I'd appreciate any and all input related to this subject.

KiraFlax · Jul 18, 2010

Cant snake Spot dodge pit's chain throw earlier than 40 percent? because i see that happening all the time

MysteriousSilver · Jul 18, 2010

Y'know, I don't think I tried spotdodging.

From now on I'm going to include a list of the things I tried to get out of it. I'll test this later today.

EDIT: Haven't tested it yet, but upon further thought, I think that this is unlikely. It's more likely the chainthrow is being messed up, but I can't test this without someone else to spotdodge for me, so I can't be sure right now.

pitskeyblade · Jul 18, 2010

Can't Snake just jab his way out of it? It happens to me all the time. Or maybe I'm just screwing up the timing...

Nikenick · Jul 18, 2010

From what I know, Snake can already spotdodge after the first grab if you try to grab him again. I tried it out with a Snake main. It could be me messing up the timing though. Anyways you can definitely fthrow -> fsmash or dash attack him.

Katana_koden · Jul 18, 2010

If any testing, you can't do this in training mode since moves don't stale.

There was said D3 can be CG to 80% boosted.

Teach how pit can boost grab please.

Ryos4 · Jul 18, 2010

Would you like this in the Pit ulitmate guide, atleast as a link? or do you want to see how this turns out first?

MysteriousSilver · Jul 18, 2010

This is information we need to complete one way or another, but that's up to you.

Snake couldn't jab out, we tested that.

I don't know how to boost grab, I remember MetalMusicMan was going to teach me once, but we never got around to it (seeing partially as he lives a good seven hours away, I think). I'll try to figure it out.

Testing was done on a custom stage or FD in a time match with infinite time. After each attempt we killed both Pit and the person being grabbed in order to reset decay and the victim's percent. Percent was raised slowly by Fox's laser.

With any luck, more testing will be done tonight or tomorrow.

...Well, ****. Snake can spotdodge out after two grabs (27%). Stutterstep does slightly more damage, unless they see it coming and smash DI out of the second hit. If you know they're going to do that, chaingrab might be better. Trent couldn't dodge out until then, though. I could be ******* up the timing, but it was pretty consistent at 27%, so...

Try to test spotdodge with everyone else later. ****.

-----

Edit: Either I'm messing something up, or Pit doesn't have a boost grab anymore than he has a DACUS. You boost grab pretty much the same way, canceling the first frame of dash attack with a grab instead of a Usmash. While I could get Wolf to do it fairly consistantly (or at least make his dash attack sound while grabbing), I couldn't get Pit to do it once. If there was a difference in the grab range, it sure wasn't enough to chaingrab D3 to 80%.

I dunno, maybe I'm messing it up.

Katana_koden · Jul 19, 2010

Pit slides the first few frames of his walking animation, if we that momentum to slide grab. Is it better than a dash? That would be interesting to test.

Coffee™ · Jul 19, 2010

You don't even need to stutterstep to hit most characters after a Fthrow. Just walk and Fsmash. It works on like everyone and Snake can be chain grabbed past 27%, just buffer better.

Gadiel_VaStar · Jul 20, 2010

What is a boost dash grab? I heard it was some kind of dash-attack canceled grab & I hear that it can take D3 to 80.

Tikun · Jul 21, 2010

Does any one has a video of Boost dash grab? =o

MysteriousSilver · Jul 21, 2010

I've seen Falco do it, I don't know if Pit actually can.

dualseeker · Jul 21, 2010

I don't think he can. I've tried but haven't gotten any results. I use Dash Attack then immediately try to grab, but it hasn't worked. So, either I'm doing it wrong or Pit can't do it.

MysteriousSilver · Jul 22, 2010

Yeah, see my above comment regarding wolf and all.

Who was telling people he could grab Dedede to 80%? We should ask them to demonstrate.

Gadiel_VaStar · Jul 23, 2010

Yikarur said:
I tell you about a few ingame physics

First why you have to C-stick down:

C-Stick is a shortcut for down + Attack for one frame, if you press the c-stick in a direction you do direction + attack for EXACTLY one frame.

You initial dash can be cancelled by upsmash (attack + up aka C-Stick up.) and fsmash in either direction (C-Stick sidewards)
If you dash and want to dash attack you do fsmash most of the time because the game is programmed this way (sothat you don't need to be frame perfect for smashes with Controlstick)

Well to dash attack right after the dash you have to dash and put your stick back to neutral position + A. (if you hold, like I said, you fsmash in the direction)
this is why the C-Stick is used
the C-Stick has priority over controlstick, so if you put the C-stick down you sidewards input is ignored for one frame and you do a dash attack instead of fsmash.

I hope you understand me xD

why you have to use Shield instead of Grab Button:

like I explained before C-Stick + Down (that you use to dash attack) is a short cut for Direction + Attack for one frame. Grab is a shortcut for Shield + Attack in one frame (Shield lasts as long as you hold the button, but attack only in one frame)

If you press C-Stick down in let's say frame 1 and press grab in frame 2 the game read it as following:
Frame 1: Down + Attack
Frame 2: Shield + Attack
The Game now things you hold the "attack" button because you didn't release the button in at least one frame.

like I said before the game has enough space for specific actions to occur (like my fsmash example, you don't have to be frame perfect to grab (Shield + Attack).
because your dash attack can be cancelled into a grab you can press C-Stick down (down+Attack) and Shield to Grab because the game things "Attack + Shield = Grab" and you have a 3 frame time window to so.
@.@ I hope you understand me.

tl/to much theorie;dr:

C-Stick down is necessary because your dash attack get cancelled by fsmash or upsmash if you use other directions on the C-Stick
You use Shield because it gives you one frame extra time.

Try that Pits! I don't have my wii w/ me.

dualseeker · Jul 23, 2010

Gadiel_VaStar said:
Try that Pits! I don't have my wii w/ me.

This is true! Pit can do this move! It's VERY HARD to time, though. Much harder than Marth's. I found it easier to do with the A button, though. But the C-stick down plus grab button works as well. It's true, though. I'm pretty sure this move extends Pit's grab range, but I don't think it's by very much. I can't really tell, I have no way to get Frame Data.

Gadiel_VaStar · Jul 23, 2010

dualseeker said:
This is true! Pit can do this move! It's VERY HARD to time, though. Much harder than Marth's. I found it easier to do with the A button, though. But the C-stick down plus grab button works as well. It's true, though. I'm pretty sure this move extends Pit's grab range, but I don't think it's by very much. I can't really tell, I have no way to get Frame Data.

Try it on D3, Snake, Falco, and MK.

Katana_koden · Jul 23, 2010

I'll test it when I manage to do it.

Edit: No success =/ Learn to buffer better for now. Like when pit slice your opponent start your dash buffer.

Nikenick · Jul 24, 2010

I tested it and it's way better O_O
Timing is hard at first though, and I should test this on a real person offline (I think the timing is too hard for online), it's just that I have nobody to play with atm.

Katana_koden · Jul 24, 2010

Then I'm doing something way wrong, what keys are you using?

Nikenick · Jul 24, 2010

Dash -> Cstick down -> Shield? You input it that way, but you get a grab. Timing is weird :o

dualseeker · Jul 24, 2010

The input I'm using is Dash > C-stick down > Z-button (on the GC controller, using Z button is the shield+attack that the guy is talking about. I don't know what the button is on other controllers, though).

It's wierd, though. The timing for Dash > C-stick > Z-button is different than Dash > A-button > Z-button. At least, that's what it feels like. I'm going to try to get this 80% Chain Grab on DDD.

Katana_koden · Jul 24, 2010

Got a video? Because I don't see any difference from a dash grab with just pressing z. I can boost pivot but other than that, its not any difference to me.

MysteriousSilver · Jul 25, 2010

I'll work on learning this later as well. I couldn't get him to do jack, but I was grabbing, not shielding->grabbing.

orcrist · Jul 30, 2010

wait how do i do the chainthrow in the firstplace???????

Apollo$ · Jul 30, 2010

orcrist said:
wait how do i do the chainthrow in the firstplace???????

You mean f-throwX3 to stutter fsmash or dash attack?

Katana_koden · Aug 21, 2010

does anyone try shield grabbing as opposed to run and grab? Its been working on some.

-You can shield earlier while running than it is to dash> stop and shield.
-Standing shield is faster the running grab. And less punishable.

I wouldn't know how much it would change the list of chainable characters.

JuxtaposeX · Aug 21, 2010

Woah, I didn't know Pit had a stutterstep! Awesome!

dualseeker · Aug 21, 2010

Katana_koden said:
does anyone try shield grabbing as opposed to run and grab? Its been working on some.

-You can shield earlier while running than it is to dash> stop and shield.
-Standing shield is faster the running grab. And less punishable.

I wouldn't know how much it would change the list of chainable characters.

You mean walk and sheild grab to continue the chain grab? That's clever. I'll have to try that, but it might reduce how many grabs pit can achieve. I'll go try it out, though. How many grabs have you gotten on characters? Have you gotten more than four on a chain grab?

Katana_koden · Aug 21, 2010

dualseeker said:
You mean walk and sheild grab to continue the chain grab? That's clever. I'll have to try that, but it might reduce how many grabs pit can achieve. I'll go try it out, though. How many grabs have you gotten on characters? Have you gotten more than four on a chain grab?

Walk? no, that works on some I believe, because he slides with it. I haven't tried it extensively.

I'm talking about dash shielding. Try it, its less lag than dash> stop>shield.
Timing is difficult at first or you might evade, and it for me a couple times on falco that usually side steps when I chain grab.

JuxtaposeX · Aug 21, 2010

Pit doesn't have a stutterstep ;(
Unless I'm doing it wrong

dualseeker · Aug 22, 2010

Katana_koden said:
Walk? no, that works on some I believe, because he slides with it. I haven't tried it extensively.

I'm talking about dash shielding. Try it, its less lag than dash> stop>shield.
Timing is difficult at first or you might evade, and it for me a couple times on falco that usually side steps when I chain grab.

Oh, I see. Well, I'll be sure to use that. Since I usually use Shield+A to grab, it shouldn't be too hard to learn. Can't wait to see what happens ^__^. Maybe it'll even extend the Chain Grab! If not, I'm sure it'll help improve efficiency.

@Juxtapose: Pit does have a stutterstep (I'm pretty sure every character has one). What inputs are you using? Are you following the guide? Maybe we can help ^__^.

Kool Aid · Aug 22, 2010

you can chaingrab snake to 40% if you do it perfectly.

dualseeker · Aug 22, 2010

You mean, even with Dash Shielding? That's too bad. But, I'm not complaining either. Since it may help people perform it more consistently.

JuxtaposeX · Aug 22, 2010

I was stutterstepping wrong lol
I was doing the turn around and reverse fsmash method, it works on Mario, Falcon, Ganon and I think one other person. With Pit it made me turn around and slide backwards a bit while I fsmashed, and it actually decreased my range D:

dualseeker · Aug 22, 2010

JuxtaposeX said:
I was stutterstepping wrong lol
I was doing the turn around and reverse fsmash method, it works on Mario, Falcon, Ganon and I think one other person. With Pit it made me turn around and slide backwards a bit while I fsmashed, and it actually decreased my range D:

Well, the only way Pit slides while doing his Fsmash is if you walk in a certain direction for a while. If you were walking before you used Fsmash, Pit slides. If you want to do the stutterstep, he has to dash before you use the Fsmash. Pit won't slide if you dash before you use Fsmash. Of course, you have to use Fsmash right after you dash, or else you'll just do a Dash Attack.

There are actually very usefull applications for this move. If your opponent rolls a lot, then you can use the sliding Fsmash to punish. Just walk in the direction your opponent rolls, and then use Fsmash. The slide will at least let one of the hits of Fsmash work, it will most likely be the launching hit. The sliding Fsmash can also be used to surprise people. Most people don't know that Pit slides when he uses Fsmash after he walks. So, you can use it to increase his Range, and hopefully catch people off guard.

Ayoub · Aug 25, 2010

^ Dont forget the fthrow-to stutterstep fsmash on low %. =)

JuxtaposeX · Aug 26, 2010

I have yet to get fthrow to fsmash to work, i always go for fthrow to dash attack

dskank · Aug 26, 2010

on falco u can fthrow > fthrow> stutterstep fsmash.. i think u can just walk and fsmash but i need to test it more

Eggplant Judo: The Pit Chaingrab/Stutterstep Thread

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

I need it....

Smash Champion

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Rookie

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Information

Network