Falco's "That's interesting" thread.

Have you ever done something with falco that made you think...."hmmm, that's cool" or in the topic title's case, "that's interesting."
This is a thread to share any of those moments you have here. It can be anything falco related in any situation as long as it's something that made you qusestion your belife(no, I don't mean belief.) It doesn't have to be a true combo or some kind of new technique; however this is not the correct thread if you have a qusestion on something.
Good examples would be the fair gimp on diddy. If it's something elaborate(like the mechanics of phantasm) you're welcome to post it here and if its too long for me to copy into the op, I'll tell you to post a thread on it.

I'll start.

If you Short hop Uair as early as you can(by buffering or speed) you can IAP before you land. Possibly useful for air chasing since Falco's feet in the Uair are invulnerable(according to Larry) *force the airdodge and punish with iap*

Dtilt stops tornado if you hit one of the 3 hitbox bubbles. It loses to it if you hit 2 and there is a chance it can beat
tornado at the right timing. More likely than not, you'd probably just stop it(both dtilt and tornado stops and both players return to neutral stance)

You can buffer a silent laser after a full hop fair.

If people are prone to airdodge the cg followup, the second hit of the dash attack links(not combos) into another dash attack or even a laser lock if they di away(the land really fast)

Falling Uair can shield poke pretty nicely and combos into many of our attacks(USmash, Utilt, Dtilt, DSmash, Jab, Ftilt, Grab)

OK that's the gist of this topic. I'll try to keep the OP updated but I can't guarantee anything. I get a new laptop friday so it'll be easier then.

Contributions:

Tommy_G
OP:
-Buffer SH-Uair->IAP
-Dtilt vs Tornado, 1 hitbox of dtilt vs 1 tornado hitbox=both moves stop
-Silent laser buffer after FH Fair
-Dair after cg->air-dodge offstage
-Falling Uair combos into many things(Usmash, Utilt, grab, Dsmash)

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11153840&postcount=9
-"Falco's double jump can sweetspot the ledge?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vixQqID99U4
-Double jump lands on the stage while still rising. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQvWAZa2Qk8
-1st hit of dash attack after cg usually sets up for Utilt

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11163426&postcount=29
Uthrow->platformcancel regrab->dthrow cg-> fsmash on SV

Xeylode:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11152617&postcount=4
-Shine super armor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u60TwxKQL4k
-Retreating Ftilt(looks to be an ending windbox on Sheiks jab, saviorslegacy says there is no windbox) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVs_j3X9k10 (Originally brought up by Anxiety, link posted by Xeylode)

Omni:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11152641&postcount=5
-No hurtbox under USmash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrl-_BEgDQk
-Timing people out on Norfair
-FH double laser top platform on BF

Anxiety:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11152895&postcount=6
-Double laser both hit on mid platforms on BF

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11163637&postcount=30
Ledge hop triple laser

Hippiedude92:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11154086&postcount=10
-Japanese are more likely to play safer than go for mixup
-Empty shorthops(even sh->ff) to mixups by landing behind people, especially when they shield.

Xonar
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11154107&postcount=11
-Falco's Dair weakspot can laserlock from ~75% depending on their weight.
-Phantasm can catch landings way better than people use it for.
-SH airdodge has only 2 frames of lag, it's hard to punish.
-After phantasming, doing a reverse usmash/running usmash often catches the opponent.
-Falco's jab out of shield has more range than grab and is only 2 frames slower.
-Falco's shine out of shield is 10-12 frames, that's really fast and has epic range.
-After a Dthrow, the opponents options are severely limited (near combo to regrab)

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11155933&postcount=16
-Walljumps are good for recovery mixups
-Laser lock tricks on PS1 http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259676

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11180115&postcount=33
Laser lock setups with percents: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244761

DEHF
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11154746&postcount=12
-Falco's ftilt spaced on shield can't be punished by more than half of the cast
-Fair beats tornado at the top
-Falco's fsmash has more range than Marth's fsmash
-Falco's up b can curved slightly, 30 degree will sometimes go parallel to floor
-Falco's dash grab is horrible except for chain grabbing

thexsunrosered
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11165994&postcount=31
-Drop down-> Ledge Hop Fair Autocancels.
-Ledge Drop-> DJ triple laser.
-Phantasm -> Laser Lock is definitely possible. This is the only thing I do need a video to explain.

Wulfy07
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11172372&postcount=32
-Mixup: Walk up and grab when the match starts.
-Nair can shield poke people on platforms
-Upsmash knocks people off platforms for possible free hits.
-Mixup: People don't always remember you can shield the jab cancels.

da K.I.D.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11181873&postcount=34
-People don't defensively space Fsmash
-Mixup: Charging Upsmash with the gatling combo when people shield it.

BleachigoZX
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11183691&postcount=36
-Wimpy dair hit (on grounded), shine.
-Wimpy uair hit (on aerial), nair, follow up?
-Phantasm'ing and Firebirding into the ledge gives Falco lag known as the "Triple Jump Glitch"
-Short Hop Uair doesn't give you lag if you do it quickly. Use it to bait approaches.
-Falco can ledgehop reflector and regrab the ledge.
-Falco can ledgehop uair and regrab the ledge.

Yumewomiteru
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11184627&postcount=39
-Ledge hop reflector is a legit way to get back, if they shield it regrab the ledge.
-autocancel wiff uair/airdodge to bait a punish then punish with fsmash.
-BLS aka Landing penalty can be negated by landing with an aerial.
-Platform Cancel against opponents who platform camp on sv at low damage platform cancel grab into chaingrab?

dainbramage
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11186929&postcount=42
-Gatling combo(Upsmash) kills if dash attack is staled enough.


Messages do not have to be short. I just shorten them for the OP so I don't run out of space.
Oh and if you prefer to have a certain color for your name, mention so with your post. To those that have already posted: update your post with the color of your choice and most likely I'll change it. Yes two people can have the same color.



That is all.

sounds interesting. cant say i know anything like this for falco tho

The "retreating" ftilt that was posted in the GD would be great for this thread.

I actually have two "hmm... WTF!" moments against the CPU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVs_j3X9k10
^This is the retreating ftilt anxiety was talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u60TwxKQL4k
^This was back when I was still using __crystal____ or velox as my name. Credit goes to saviorslegacy for popping out that little video for me. Sadly, I accidently deleted the orignial off of my wii, so this is really all that remains of that. Long live the internet.

falco's up-smash removes the hurt box from under his feet during the flip motion making some attacks whiff

falco can time people easily on Norfair

falco can full hop and laser twice (both lasers hitting at 2nd platform level) and land relatively fast

On battlefield falco can laser the platform twice witha sh ^^

Xeylode said:

I actually have two "hmm... WTF!" moments against the CPU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVs_j3X9k10
^This is the retreating ftilt anxiety was talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u60TwxKQL4k
^This was back when I was still using __crystal____ or velox as my name. Credit goes to saviorslegacy for popping out that little video for me. Sadly, I accidently deleted the orignial off of my wii, so this is really all that remains of that. Long live the internet.

Click to expand...

the retreating ftilt is due to falco being pushed back by the wind hitbox from the end of sheik's jab. falco has the same thing with his multijab.

also what the heck? shine has super armor?

ok i take it back. was just in training and for some reason while practicing boost pivot grabs or whatever in tarnation their called, i ended up doing a dtilt while sliding backwards, looked ****ed near similar to wavedash backwards into dtilt in melee o.o
unfortunately, it was in training, so i have no way of showing it again, but it was hella weird.

Falco's double jump can sweetspot the ledge.
"Falco's double jump can sweetspot the ledge?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vixQqID99U4
and
"Falco jump ledge cancel"(i think its what that one is called)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQvWAZa2Qk8

Dash attack1 puts people into a position just above the range to many attacks. It usually follows up with up tilt. Useful for putting people in the air. If you know they're aggressive with a good dair that would beat the utilt, you can shield-regrab or ultimately usmash oos.(they can't jump w/o attacking because of hitstun)

These interesting tidbits doesn't have to be game revolutionizing. They're just things you think other falco's could use to help their game with options they didn't think they have. GJ so far everyone.

how can falco time people out on norfair? (not that'd matter, since atl north never keeps norfair on as a cp always banned =[ )

I noticed after playing with the Japanese, l forgot which falco but, when they get the CG, they don't always go for the follow up, so they play safe. also whenever they are not in the right position, they feel their options are too risky, they'll just go back to playing safe mode.

Tomahawks (aka empty SH/FHs or any form to get a grab goes back to Melee days) are really useful when you know your opponent is going to shield, you have the option of cross up (land behind them) this usually let's you get a dthrow follow up stuffs

Falco's Dair weakspot can laserlock from ~75% depending on their weight.
Phantasm can catch landings way better than people use it for.
SH airdodge has only 2 frames of lag, it's hard to punish.
After phantasming, doing a reverse usmash/running usmash often catches the opponent.
Falco's jab out of shield has more range than grab and is only 2 frames slower.
Falco's shine out of shield is 10-12 frames, that's really fast and has epic range.
After a Dthrow, the opponents options are severely limited to the point of having a guarenteed regrab/dair on some characters.

Falco's ftilt spaced on shield can't be punished by more than half of the cast
Fair beats tornado at the top
Falco's fsmash has more range than Marth's fsmash
Falco's up b can curved slightly, if you angle the 30 degree up b towards the ground it will sometimes go parallel with the floor.
Falco's dash grab is horrible except for chain grabbing

TommyG for the double jump cancel are you hitting the ceiling to cancel your jump?

DEHF said:

Falco's ftilt spaced on shield can't be punished by more than half of the cast
Fair beats tornado at the top
Falco's fsmash has more range than Marth's fsmash
Falco's up b can curved slightly, if you angle the 30 degree up b towards the ground it will sometimes go parallel with the floor.
Falco's dash grab is horrible except for chain grabbing

TommyG for the double jump cancel are you hitting the ceiling to cancel your jump?

Click to expand...

Nope, just fall back and double jump from the right distance. Hitting the roof in the video is just me screwing up.
I suspect that the double jump has a weird mechanic that drags falco down while flipping. This downward motion tricks the game into thinking falco is falling rather than rising. It would grab the ledge if its timed on the ledge or land on the stage if its timed on the stage horzontal.
I'll update the OP when I get home.

One time I accidentally angled a phantasm... idk how I did it

choice_ said:

also what the heck? shine has super armor?

Click to expand...

There is something people might not see in that video. There is a grenade that is falling in front of snake. I had soft tossed the nade. So, basically I hit falco in the middle of the shine, and the shine touches the nade when it falls. My opinion of that is either a glitch, or shine touching falling items, or reflecting items generates a moment of invicibility for falco.

You. can. walljump.
Use it as a ledge mixup

not_corey said:

One time I accidentally angled a phantasm... idk how I did it

Click to expand...

were you wolf ;p

Tommy_G said:

Nope, just fall back and double jump from the right distance. Hitting the roof in the video is just me screwing up.
I suspect that the double jump has a weird mechanic that drags falco down while flipping. This downward motion tricks the game into thinking falco is falling rather than rising. It would grab the ledge if its timed on the ledge or land on the stage if its timed on the stage horzontal.
I'll update the OP when I get home.

Click to expand...

If I'm correct, you're grabbing the ledge after you've done a walljump near the edge. This happens to me a lot on BF when I try to walljump pretty close to the edge.

makes sense tho with the reflector ''invincible''

Gmoney_ said:

If I'm correct, you're grabbing the ledge after you've done a walljump near the edge. This happens to me a lot on BF when I try to walljump pretty close to the edge.

Click to expand...

I'm going to see if I can do it on SV later, maybe tomorrow.

You can't walljump on SV

demonictoonlink said:

You can't walljump on SV

Click to expand...

Now THAT is interesting.

demonictoonlink said:

You can't walljump on SV

Click to expand...

Exactly.
If I can sweetspot the ledge on sv, then that means it's not because of a wall jump.

It did look like a wall jump to the ledge..but i didnt know you could hook that fast after a walljump either..

pulse131 said:

were you wolf ;p

Click to expand...

Haha nope, i was playing against my friend's fox and we were both offstage on the right side of FD at the end of the match and when I did my phantasm I went about the length of the first cancel and then it went up and left at an angle less than 45 degrees. If this wasnt some freak accident glitch, it would be way bigger than curving upB.

I do have a replay saved... BUT 1. its on my roommate's sister's wii and 2. i would have to have someone else take the replay and put it youtube for me.

Bloodcross said:

Now THAT is interesting.

Click to expand...

RIGHT!!?

Tommy_G said:

Exactly.
If I can sweetspot the ledge on sv, then that means it's not because of a wall jump.

Click to expand...

Oh lol...this is what happens when I don't read everything

not_corey said:

Haha nope, i was playing against my friend's fox and we were both offstage on the right side of FD at the end of the match and when I did my phantasm I went about the length of the first cancel and then it went up and left at an angle less than 45 degrees. If this wasnt some freak accident glitch, it would be way bigger than curving upB.

I do have a replay saved... BUT 1. its on my roommate's sister's wii and 2. i would have to have someone else take the replay and put it youtube for me.

Click to expand...

as soon as you get the replay. you can send it to me =)

On Smashville:
Upthrow->Shield Platform Cancel in front of you->Regrab->Dthrow to ledge->Stutterstep Fsmash early possible kill

ive only been able to do it once. but if you time the ledge lasers..u can get 3 shots. first shot hits crawling snake. second shot is higher possibly hit stand snake..and third shot was a silent laser.

I've known what I'm about to say for a long time but I've been waiting to make a video for it, but I guess I'll just say them, nows as good a time as ever

1) Drop down-> Ledge Hop Fair Autocancels. If its not you're doing it wrong

2) Ledge Drop-> DJ triple laser. Its ****. Once again, if you don't get it, you aren't doing it fast enough. Its also possible from a stage drop too.

3) Phantasm -> Laser Lock is definitely possible. This is the only thing I do need a video to explain.


Also, don't forget about instant walljumps on Final Destination, Battlefield and other stages with walls. The invulnerable ledgehop thing on battlefield should be added

Speaking of mix ups, when starting a match on a platform, you can usually get away with just going under, walking up to the opponent and grabbing them. For some reason players often don't imagine that Falco even has the option of approaching and this calm walk will usually lead the opponent to think "He's about to turn around." or they are too focused on their strategy and getting off the platform this early in the match to think that you are just gonna walk up and chaingrab. It's obviously a battlefield tactic, but I've used it and seen it work a few times.

Also (just because it's obvious doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned) bdacus is a nice possible approach/possible kill move/possible mix up out of shdl or down throw, etc.

Nair people on platforms can shield poke.

Upsmash against someone shielding above you on the edge of the platform will knock them off and get a free ftilt or possibly (if they're slow or your fast) Fsmash.

Most people will kind of let themselves get jabbed multiple times with canceled jabs before they realize they can shield. I think this is because they expect a spinning jab or for Falco to just stop, so you can sometimes get a few extra hits in before retreating or knocking them away with ftilt or another followup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244761

nomnom numbers

Good input everyone. I'll update the OP when I get home later.

I just finished classes and I don't feel like doing it now. :-/ XD

This stuff isn't legit, but they are really small windows for reaction time to do anything.

-Wimpy dair hit (on grounded), shine.
-Wimpy uair hit (on aerial), nair, follow up?

-Phantasm'ing and Firebirding into the ledge gives Falco lag known as the "Triple Jump Glitch"
-Short Hop Uair doesn't give you lag if you do it quickly. Use it to bait approaches.
-Falco can ledgehop reflector and regrab the ledge.
-Falco can ledgehop uair and regrab the ledge.

Gray?

I really like this thread. I need to shwagger jack this and add it to the Falco Backroom.

soft uair can combo into uair, bair and dair too.

"triple jump glitch" sounds kinda dumb. i prefer landing penalty like the japanese call it.