Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: Olimar

i never thought olimar to be that big of a problem, but m2k lost to brood AND rich brown. I think we should start on this, i know everyone has been talking about it so here it is.


GO!

ABOUT ****ING TiME

Contribute, don't whine

Sorry, lol.

Okay. Purple is ********. Kills at like 77%. All I know is that Delfino is not that good because Olimar plucks MORE PURPLE PIKMIN on Delfino.

IIRC He plucks more Purple on Frigate too.

I like to CP Delfino, because you can shark a lot on this stage.
Sharking is one of the only save approaches against Olimar.
Dodging his grab on prediction gives you a free hit on him and you can try to bring him into possible situation for a gimp.

I don't know why I didn't know this until know, but you can actually hit Olimar's Pikmin when he tries to grab you. So if have the reaction time you can Dsmash them if you're facing him... I think it will come out in time...

I asked the Olimars for frame data on their grab, so I'll let you guys know asap.

Purple are *****es and do kill super early like Kaffei said, they also have 15% of health believe it or not. I personally try to kill them like they're Nana if I have the chance. We really don't need early kills on us as fast as Olimar racks up damage and as lite as we are.

White Pikmin have almost no health so you really shouldn't worry about them.

If you have Pikmin on you, just Nair them off, it's super fast, covers your whole body, and kill/gets Pikmin off right away.

Hmm what else.

Frigate gives a lot of purple and yellow Pikmin because it's a metal type stage. Same goes for Lylat. Frigate is still a good stage to CP Olimar if you can get an early gimp. RC is probably the best because you can time that ******* out.

My main bans would be Halberd for obvious reasons and Lylat for the before mentioned reasons.

Best way to approach Olimar is from a 45 degree angle, all he has is Up-B, so if you can dodge that you can get in.

You can also mash out of grabs as Olimar reels you in, so if you have fast reaction time then mash away.

White Pikmin die super fast but deal ******** damage from latch and pummel. (I actually had a dream last night about having tons of white ones latched onto me and I couldn't get 'em off, it was horrible)

Watch the U-air plz, it's ******** and deal in the 20s for damage.

Don't get grabbed to start you stock, there's too many ******** "combos" Olimar has such as Dthrow>Dthrow (if you try to air dodge down) > Usmash/Fair > Uair (if he Usmashed)

Welp, that's pretty much all I've got. This is not from success, just from knowledge of maining Olimar and playing with Olimars a lot. He's a ***, not much too it than that.

I did not know that about hitting Olimar's grab... BUT LMAO @ YOUR DREAM.

Take advantage of Olimar's lack of priority by attacking through his attacks like P-4 said. I think a lot of the problems people are having with Olimar is because they are trying to dodge and shield everything.

Use nair to get rid of pikmin latched onto you.

Be careful when using grounded tornado, you can be grabbed out of it. Olimar has no way of beating tornado reliably once it is risen off the ground.

Again, learn to get rid of the fear of Olimar's attacks and fight through them, over thinking in this match up is bad for MK.

Mess with his recovery (if you even want to call it that).

That is all.

Okay so Olimar's grab comes out on frame 7 and as you guys should know out Dsmash come out on 5

Meaning buffered Dsmash on landing could be a very viable way to not get grabbed

Ftilt is pretty much the only tilt that really helps you. Ftilt 3 kills all approaching pikmin. Dtilt is kinda helpful. Just don't use it TOO much. Utilt rly isn't helpful. can't cut through Oli's Dair and isn't used for much else.

Dsmash is incredibly helpful. Kills pikmin, a great move to get opponents of you (as usual). Fsmash can be good if you bait them into it, but it does leave you wide open for Oli's grabs or his Fsmash. Usmash is good to slide into Oli with. It also outprioritizes his Dair.


Dash attack should be used sparingly.

Fair doesn't help much. They can DI out of it easy. Dair cuts through his Uair and Usmash. Bair is usually unexpected so it works alot.


Edgehogging Olimar is easier than you think. If he's far away from the stage, just grab the ledge right before he uses upB. It doesn't hit you b/c of invinci-armor, he goes into freefall, he's dead.
Most of your grabs are useful.

Karcist said:

Olimar has no way of beating tornado reliably once it is risen off the ground.

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his upB outprioritizes it.

Olimar can uair us and pikmin toss if we're just hanging on the legde. Also give him some space if he's grabbing the legde. Ledge drop uair reaches THROUGH battlefield I kid you not

I take it about about Olimar's grab, it's on frame 5, just like our Dsmash -________-

Idk what to do about it, read it and still Dsmash? You could maybe try Dtilt but I don't think it'll do enough damage to repel the Pikmin...

Player-4 said:

I take it about about Olimar's grab, it's on frame 5, just like our Dsmash -________-

Idk what to do about it, read it and still Dsmash? You could maybe try Dtilt but I don't think it'll do enough damage to repel the Pikmin...

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Read it and grounded upB.

GSL isn't active until frame 8 and is only invincible 5-8. Hilt just told me it's 11 frames now?

I asked him some more about it so once again, I'll let you guys know the final out come lol

Edit:

Alright folks

Hilt said:

The hitbox starts on frame eleven and lasts through twenty-five. Cool Down on Olimar lasts from twenty-six to twenty-nine.

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With that being said, Dsmash those little pricks if he tries to grab you, spot dodge won't work.

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If you hang on the edge and DI upwards, his Up B won´t stagespike you.
Best way to not let him back, when he is too far away from the stage.

Is it better to go defensive or offensive on this?

Aggressively helps me but there's still the danger of running into a grab > a combo of some sort. How do y'all play?

Obvious/generic advice is that Olimar can grab Meta Knight out of a ground tornado, Usmash kills well, has a pivot grab beats all of MK's options unless they vertically out-space the grab, has legit combos and attack strings at early percents that are started by grabs, Usmash, or Fair.

Usmash kills well off the top. It kills in the 80s for purples, and 90s for the others except for whites and yellows. Whites are weak and yellows have a set rate of ~1 frame of hit stun after 20% IIRC. For Olimar's throws urples kill relatively early (l120+ IIRC) off the top with U/Dthrow, blues kill decently off of the sides with F/Bthrow, and the others are non-issues with proper DI. When grabbed by a white, mash out quickly. White grab pummels are the best in the game; the are medium speed and deal ~4% per hit.

In terms of Olimar's aerials, all of them except for white kill well while they are edge guarding -- both off stage and on-stage. Never assume that Olimar won't come after you when you're off the ledge; he has some good options that can be dangerous. For power, IIRC reds are the strongest, followed closely by purples. Blues also have decent kill power and yellows can work if MK is at high percent, has poor, DI, is near the edge, or any combination of the above.

Fsmash can kill, but only purple Fsmash is truly scary and its range is lackluster. Dsmash can kill well -- especially near the ledge. Dsmash is also the only move where purples have the same range as the other Pikmin and it is still very powerful -- I've died from Dsmash at 60% before when I air dodged into a Dsmash.

Olimar's grab comes out on frame 11 and doesn't have grab armor. If you Dtilt twice and he attempt to grab you, Dtilt will hit him on the same frame that he grabs you and he'll get hit (you won't get grabbed). IIRC his only options when you're Dtilting his shield are to roll (which you can whiff a Dtilt and still react to haha), jump, jab, and Usmash (don't get too close). If your reaction time is decent/you have strong adrenaline going/etc., you can spot dodge Olimar's grab. Olimar's jab 1 has virtually no hit stun unless it's buffered into jab 2; it isn't scary and doesn't lead into anything.

Be careful about Olimar's Usmash; it comes out on frame 8 IIRC, can cover a surprising amount of range (both horizontally and vertically), deals high damage, can kill early, combos at low-percents, and leads to excellent follow-ups/momentum at mid-percents. Usmash can't be shield grabbed when spaced properly (except for maybe white) and I believe that it actually becomes safer as it stales. Aside from Yellow hits from early percents (~0-20% IIRC), can be punished on hit until high percents when MK is sent too far away in the few frames of hit stun. Yellow F/Bair and U/Dair out-range all of MK's move-set horizontally and vertically (except for possibly Utilt/Up-B), respectively IIRC. If Nair hits you, SDI up and away or else it will combo into Usmash. Nair shield pokes well, punishes poor spacing well, comes out soon, etc.

As powerful as Olimar is, it isn't difficult to live past 160%; I usually live until 180% and will typically live past 200% in any given set. If you time it properly, you can actually out-camp Olimar staying out of range, avoiding purples, and Nair the other Pikmin before the can latch onto you. Olimar can actually act after his Pikmin pull before it seems that he should be able to and it works as a gimmicky bait if you don't know that it's coming.

My personal favorite kill bait is to walk toward Olimar until just inside of his grab range, and then walk back toward him (ignoring the Pikmin). He usually reacts slightly before grab range because he assumes that I'm going to commit to whatever I'm doing because a lot of players begin to panic when they have Pikmin on them. It's fairly situational and shouldn't be used often, because Olimar's punishes/reads will cause more damage than normal because of the Pikmin.

Remember not to panic when Pikmin are attached. Also, be weary about using Fair/Bair/etc. off of the ledge because Olimar can punish it with a spike on a hard read with a jump or SDI. Learn to frame trap Olimar off-stage; all of Olimar's options can be covered on reaction with proper spacing.

This matchup has been really overrated lately...


I'll share some tips when I have more time.

Affinity said:

This matchup has been really overrated lately...

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Agreed, as bad as i am in this MU, i really don't think is to much of a problem for MK mains as long as you know what your doing. M2K just lost a couple times to olimar and now its the end of the world lol

I find this MU easy when i play as Oli but not when I play as MK, I just depend of a dodge or a roll to punish Oli :/

ItoxBlade said:

I find this MU easy when i play as Oli but not when I play as MK, I just depend of a dodge or a roll to punish Oli :/

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Stop rolling and dodge sparingly vs. Olimar. D smash, tilts, and fair are your friends.

kyokoro_pamuyo said:

Quick question: IIRC, Olimar has no Grab SA, imarite?
(lack of local Olimars doesn't help on that...)

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urite, which is why attacking through his grab is usually the best option.

Omni (MK) vs PS (Olimar) 1
Omni (MK) vs PS (Olimar) 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD2rueAwevw - Game 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8mmKlQg3rI - Game 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpMumLPxBsw - Game ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX231z252Lk - Game ??

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Just a few random matches with me and Logic.

I have a lot of experience against Olimar but I still feel like I don't know anything about him. Like, I know his movesets, I do know him, but when I'm playing against him I can never really tell what he's doing 'cuz he's so small and ****. Candy's MK does better against Logic's Olimar than I do. I actually use to handle the match-up really well until he started picking up his game and now it's pretty tough and sometimes goes either way depenending on whoever is feeling it.

Do:
- Short hop up-air into tornado or grab when Olimar is trying to land with no double jump
- Space d-tilts
- Tornado Olimar when he can no longer teether stall from the ledge

Do Not:
- Glide attack
- D-air camp like a champ at a 45 degree angle
- Use d-smash unless you know it will hit or push off the ledge
- Dash attack
- Get impatient

for starters

Kaffei said:

Sorry, lol.

Okay. Purple is ********. Kills at like 77%. All I know is that Delfino is not that good because Olimar plucks MORE PURPLE PIKMIN on Delfino.

IIRC He plucks more Purple on Frigate too.

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Ok.

So I like know nothing about Olimar.

So, it's stage dependent on which pikmin Olimar pulls the most? Why?

Bloodcross said:

Ok.

So I like know nothing about Olimar.

So, it's stage dependent on which pikmin Olimar pulls the most? Why?

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They have a chart on their boards about which Pikmin get plucked more due to stages and their elements so to speak. Metal stages like Lylat and Frigate produce more purple and yellow Pikmin, water areas like on Delfino and PS2 produce more blues etc etc.

Does the whole pikmen thing change on ps1 or ps2?

It's elementally dependent

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212786

Read that^ ya lazy bums

Hmm.... JJ as a solid counterpick against oli? He pulls very few purples, will have trouble if he falls in the water, we can probably stall him out fairly effectively, and we're likely to live for quite a while.

Budget Player Cadet_ said:

Hmm.... JJ as a solid counterpick against oli? He pulls very few purples, will have trouble if he falls in the water, we can probably stall him out fairly effectively, and we're likely to live for quite a while.

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You also essentially lose the ability to gimp Olimar. He'll die if he hits the water on the left half of the stage, but he can just fast-fall away from your off-stage game and survive with or without Pikmin. Not to mention that it's relatively difficult to get Olimar into the water to begin with. It also has several ledges so that Olimar's already decent ledge game becomes increasingly dynamic (he can tether from one ledge to another).

Assuming that Meta Knight isn't getting hit by things that he shouldn't be getting hit by, neither character will live much longer than they already do -- bar Olimar's much increased resistance to gimps. Also, Blue Pikmin (Olimar's most-drawn Pikmin on this stage IIRC) aren't nearly as hindered by the high ceiling as you're thinking. In addition to Usmash, Olimar's F/Bthrows are decent kill moves that will kill at high percent. Also, Usmash still kills at a reasonable percent -- it just doesn't kill quite as ridiculously early.

so what stage has like no purples and no blues

cuz thats the stage i wanna fugging play on

Delfino/Frigate have lots of purple so avoid those.
Idk which ones have least purples. IIRC he can always pull purples, it's just that the chance of picking one varies depending on the stage

Kaffei said:

Delfino/Frigate have lots of purple so avoid those.
Idk which ones have least purples. IIRC he can always pull purples, it's just that the chance of picking one varies depending on the stage

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Frigate is a decent map to take Olimar to even with the purples.

There was a thread in the olimar boards about the stage pikmin thing, right?

Karcist said:

Frigate is a decent map to take Olimar to even with the purples.

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The first part is good against Olimar since he has no ledge to tether, but Olimar's ability to control space and settle in for warm marshmallows on the second part is... ridiculous.

Seriously, be careful on Frigate. The first part sucks for Oli, but the second part is, in fact, obscenely good for him. And, usually, it's there more.

Honestly, do we have more than two good stages in this matchup? O.o

Budget Player Cadet_ said:

Seriously, be careful on Frigate. The first part sucks for Oli, but the second part is, in fact, obscenely good for him. And, usually, it's there more.

Honestly, do we have more than two good stages in this matchup? O.o

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Will Olimar pull much purples on Halberd?
I also think PS1 could be a good choice, not sure.