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How to learn every matchup ever.

SuSa

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I see it everywhere. "How do I beat ______?" and it's almost always the same answers. "Well, first off shield ___ and ____ and ____. Know that when ____ is _____ he ______ or ______. Blaaaaahhhh repeat information blaaahhh"

First off, you have to learn what makes up a matchup. The basic fundamentals of the game, and how to learn matchups.

I wrote this guide to teach people the oh-so-obvious thing of learning a matchup.

The Left Out 4th Step is theorycrafting (this would need its own guide)
I want to write a guide on how to properly use+apply theorycraft. I see many people going WAY overboard with their theorycraft sometimes and I want to help clear up the lines of "Theoretical" "Practical" and "Realistic" theorycrafting. There are some gray areas, and I don't claim to be able to perfectly seperate and show the three, but as a player whom relied heavily on my own theorycraft in matches - it gave results.

So if you want it, ask me for it. Now onto what this topic is about:

Step One - Learn to Shield​


Learn to powershield all projectiles, and any move with over a 15-20 frame startup on reaction. Make sure you time it correctly. Make sure you powershield and release those projectiles. You don't want to hold that shield against Samus's missile, you want to tap it last second. Also expect that zair and tap twice just to be safe. Got it? Good.

POWERSHIELD *****ES.

Step Two - Study​

Study your opponents' character. What does this mean?

1) Go to the respective character board, and read that guide. Most every board has one, it's usually stickied up at the top. Find it, read it. Read every detail. Learn the character, learn their gimmiks, their AT's, how the character works. Oh? You don't want to memorize all this? Good luck on the matchup then!

2) Read the opponents matchup thread. These usually focus on that characters' problems with the matchup and their answers to said problems if any. This helps you learn your opponents options against you, and how to best avoid scenarios they enjoy to be in. Read it several times over, but don't follow it strictly. Ever player is different.. which brings us to our next point.

3) Know your opponent. This helps moreso for the higher-leveled players, but if you know you're going to be fighting someone down the line. Watch their matches, learn their habits - study their playstyle. See what they do from the ledge, see how they recover. Learn how they approach, learn where you can punish. Study them.

Step Three - Practice

Apply your newfound matchup in as many friendlies with the best player of said matchup you can. If you are unable to attain friendlies, apply your knowledge in tournament. Keep trying, don't give up.


:nifty::leek:
 

lilseph

Smash Ace
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Good read. I have to work on power shielding, helps a **** load when i get it down in matches.
 

SuSa

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Common Sense: The return of the revenge of the electric boogaloo
You would be amazed at how uncommon common sense is.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=288961
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289326
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287775

And that's not looking into that most matchup discussions recenty I've seen people asking for a rediscussion on it because they don't understand the matchup. :awesome:

Also inb4 all those links being Snake boards. I originally posted this there but figured I may as well post it here.

:nifty::leek:
 

swordgard

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You would be amazed at how uncommon common sense is.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=288961
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289326
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287775

And that's not looking into that most matchup discussions recenty I've seen people asking for a rediscussion on it because they don't understand the matchup. :awesome:

Also inb4 all those links being Snake boards. I originally posted this there but figured I may as well post it here.

:nifty::leek:

Common sense is a fallacy. Not that i read much on the thread, just saying that "common sense" does not justify anything.
 

Poltergust

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I guess I skip step one, huh? =P

...Actually, that's not entirely true. Although powershielding is practically useless as Yoshi, he can still use his shield to his advantage with other methods. It's just that his shield operates completely differently from every other character in the game. He's probably the lone exception to the first rule.


:069:
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Not sure I can agree with this entirely.

Like Lucario has a few characters, Fox and Diddy are good examples, where he has to seriously change up what he usually does with the cast. Link even has a few match-ups where he needs to change his usual thing, anyone with a good reflector or that can spam as well as he can or better. Some of these things aren't even directly obvious at first.

The looking at character boards I approve, I wish people would trust them a bit better.
 

SuSa

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I guess I skip step one, huh? =P

...Actually, that's not entirely true. Although powershielding is practically useless as Yoshi, he can still use his shield to his advantage with other methods. It's just that his shield operates completely differently from every other character in the game. He's probably the lone exception to the first rule.


:069:
Yoshi suffers GREATLY if he doesn't powershield a move, due to his bad shield. If anything, powershielding is even more important for Yoshi than any other member of the cast.

But Yoshi just doesn't shield as much....

Not sure I can agree with this entirely.

Like Lucario has a few characters, Fox and Diddy are good examples, where he has to seriously change up what he usually does with the cast. Link even has a few match-ups where he needs to change his usual thing, anyone with a good reflector or that can spam as well as he can or better. Some of these things aren't even directly obvious at first.

The looking at character boards I approve, I wish people would trust them a bit better.
When did I say to play exactly the same against the entire cast? O_o

 

Poltergust

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Yoshi suffers GREATLY if he doesn't powershield a move, due to his bad shield. If anything, powershielding is even more important for Yoshi than any other member of the cast.

But Yoshi just doesn't shield as much....
But... powershielding doesn't do anything really beneficial for him. It only helps him get a shield-grab on a laggy move. Also, since his shield did not get pushed back, his roll doesn't become extended. He also still has the 17 frames of shield-drop animation.

Basically, if Yoshi powershields a move he can't shield-grab it actually hurts him more than it helps. :glare:

Also, Yoshi can't power-shield most projectiles because his nose is too big. He needs to be facing the opposite direction in order to power-shield most of the time.


:069:
 

DFEAR

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its so funny seein polt powershield cuz when he does hes like. DARN IT WHY DID I POWERSHIELD!

@op

good read. all bout that step two/three.
 

SuSa

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Strange, when did I get off of your ignore list?

@Polter

If you read this, would you like me to point out the Yoshi exception in Step 1? Although I do think most every Yoshi main would already know about it.... :x
 

Sinister Slush

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We can't powershield we all know that... Hopefully. But at rare times we can sheild some attacks and it'll Look like we Powersheilded it.
Aside from the PS buisness. Me playing the best is common from the tournaments i've attended. And I can never get Friendlies in since most of the Wii's are taken by the time I try to get some in.
 

Poltergust

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If the shield flashes, Slush, that means that Yoshi powershielded the attack.

...But that's all it does. It offers no practical benefits whatsoever. =/


:069:
 

Sinister Slush

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If the shield flashes, Slush, that means that Yoshi powershielded the attack.

...But that's all it does. It offers no practical benefits whatsoever. =/


:069:
Which's why I don't count it as Powershielding since all it did was give off a flash, while every other character who Powershield can get out of it quicker and either do it again from a second attack we throw, or directly run in to attack.
 

LanceStern

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I stll have a hard time grasping Yoshi's shield being terrible. His disjointed big head/tail/tongue/feet seem to always up smash, down smash, grab or jab out of shield. Perhaps I'm just spacing wrong.

Great read. I'm headed to the marth board now to look at some matchups haha
 

Staco

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good read

Yoshi has a hard timing to powershield, since his nose is outside the shieldbox during the shield startup animation
 

Luxor

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I stll have a hard time grasping Yoshi's shield being terrible.
His shield drop is ridiculously long (one of these posts said 17 frames?), and he has to drop shield before every single OoS option he has, including jump and grab. He can only roll and I think spotdodge out of shield. Unless you're randomly spamming smashes against him and getting shielded at zero range... Yoshi really shouldn't be punishing you OoS. As Polt said, roll is his best OoS option lol.

The options you listed are fast in and of themselves (especially frame 3 crazy-range jab) but with the shield drop timing and inability to Usmash OoS they're pretty lame.
 

Exalted

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Great read, albeit this should really be known by every semi-serious Smasher. I'm surprised that this isn't the case.
 

SuSa

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Great read, albeit this should really be known by every semi-serious Smasher. I'm surprised that this isn't the case.
It's not something many people actually think to do, even when it's so obvious.

Most of the time when you're getting beat in a matchup, you get angry and frustrated and just want people to tell you HOW THE FFFFF DO I BEAT THIS MATCHUP?

Knowing what to do beforehand helps avoid this.

:nifty::leek:
 

DanGR

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why would my post seem sarcastic?
I sorta assumed you played competitively, in which case studying the other characters in this game would be pretty mandatory if you want to do well. If you're a casual player, my bad.
 

SuSa

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....waste of time.

Great for beginners tho.
I continue to do this each day (ever wonder why I post on practically every character board?)

I keep up to date with each characters metagame, so that I am not suprised in tournament when I see something happen.

It's not something only beginners should do. If you want to place and do well in tournaments doing this is essential. Almost as much as getting in the practice at tournaments.

:nifty::leek:
 

Poltergust

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I was under the impression that inputting a grab while shielding caused him to shield drop--> grab, i.e. grabbing doesn't cancel the shield drop animation for :yoshi:
Nope, the extra lag from the shield-drop doesn't apply to his shield-grab.

Just try it for yourself. Do a shield-grab, then do a shield-drop to standing-grab. I believe both take 17 frames to perform, so it should last twice as long.


:069:
 

teluoborg

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I was under the impression that inputting a grab while shielding caused him to shield drop--> grab, i.e. grabbing doesn't cancel the shield drop animation for :yoshi:
It's just that Yoshi's standing grab plainly sucks compared to his special and pivot grab. That + no OOS + long shield drop animation = the worst shield you could ever dream of.
But Yoshi doesn't really need his shield so that's ok.
 
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