Toon Link Discussion: Mr. Game and Watch

MJG · Nov 20, 2010

Matchup Rediscussion: Mr. GnW!

2D vs. Projectiles.

Mr. Game and Watch: By Jerm and MJG

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Game and Watch: 55:45 TL.
Things to keep in mind:
-Keep GnW away from you at all times. If you get above Gnw the air, just be careful and don't try to land on top of him. GnW gets most of his damage on TL when he is under TL.
-Keep throwing projectiles.
-Teching in this MU can be useful but TL doesn't necessarily need to tech. Past 50% or so, TL can just stand up without being down smashed. The problem with this though is that the opponent can just charge an Up Smash or do Jab to Grab if they see that the TL user keeps on standing up.
-All of TLs Aerials REALLY shut down GnW for the most part (especially bair).
-TL can Up Smash GnW during GnW's bair when GnW doesn't space his bair well.
-Zair out ranges everything GnW has.
-Up Air will beat GnWs down air if you angle it correctly.

Useful Moves:
Bombs, Zair, Bair, Nair, Uair, Boomerang.

Useful Kill Moves
Uair, Fair, Up smash, Up Tilt, Bair (depends on the staleness of this move)

Stages:
FD, PS1, SV

Ban:
Halberd, Green Greens, Yoshi's Island, BF

Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qAyHeNl5yU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q3ZvMkOCoQ

~TLK~ · Nov 21, 2010

camp hard. kill him before he kills you. you camp better he kills better.

Ic0slay3r · Nov 21, 2010

lol isn't that same description for almost every toon link MU >.>

Someone post a link in the G&W forums so this can get a little more attention.

Vinnie · Nov 21, 2010

5:5 ~ 55:45 G&W favor.

bair, dtilt, up b are all really great in this matchup, and you can f-air stage spike his recovery. Powershielding stuff is good, also toon link struggles with killing g&w if the g&w doesn't air dodge into usmashes (jumping / up Bing away).

usmash kills g&w really early, combos hurt him really badly, it's really hard for him to get in. It's also hard for g&w to come back once the toon link holds a stock lead. Bomb camping ****s him up if he can't control the bombs.

A2ZOMG · Nov 22, 2010

This matchup is weird as hell, but Vinnie basically covered it. One thing that makes this matchup weird is how G&W has to edgeguard TL completely differently than he does normally, since trading hits with TL's U-air while D-air edgeguarding isn't wise.

overgamer · Nov 22, 2010

quick tip, TL need to space his air-Z attack (what is it called, theter attack?) properly, or G&W can simply duck to avoid it. Agreed about the fact that Utilt and Usmash kill G&W early esp. if there is a low ceiling.

This matchup is indeed weird. G&W hates big level with intensive camping.

Chsal · Nov 24, 2010

Tether.

I hate bucket-braking.

iamjason8 · Nov 26, 2010

Imo, players need to time their attacks perfectly, e.g. if timed correctly, GaW's U-Smash can beat Tink's D-Air.

~Toon Link can definitely outcamp GaW but GaW can break projectiles with D-Tilt and I think B-Air and F-Tilt.

~Both character will die pretty quickly to each other. This is one of the few MUs that Tink players shouldn't be riping their hair out because the kill is taking so long even if GaW has Bucket Braking.

~GaW can build damage pretty quick and has more killing moves at his disposal.

~Tink's U-Tilt, U-Smash are very good. So is his U-Air which beat GaW's D-Air.

~When I played this MU, Tink aircamping is actually not as bad as I thought because GaW is really good in the air. All his aerials are like sex kicks.

~Toon Link doesn't have many good gimps on GaW.

~Z-Air is really annoying but punishing it can really hurt.

I used to think it was 55:45 Toon Link advantage but now that I think of it, its more 50:50..

MJG · Dec 8, 2010

Wrap up any final thoughts on the match up please.

I will write an analysis' on the MU after finals.

iamjason8 · Dec 9, 2010

Toon Links, remember...

*Up-A moves to kill.
*Never approach (lol).
*Don't challenge him horizontally in the air.
*Space Z-Airs carefully.
*U-Air is really good. (Well, I as a GaW player hate this move)

50-50; even.

Heavy Metal KiLLeR · Dec 13, 2010

I think bombs will **** the 2d guy...
G&W should play this MU carefully, I have already seen a lot of G&Ws trying to atack and be offensive, but is not like that. TL can punish him well and can destroy some approachs with a well used zair. So IMO, you shouldn't atack like a bull...
Ibomb is amazing here, Ibombing in multihits moves is always amazing, so I think, G&Ws nair and bair can be stoped with this AT.

TL got this, just camping and punishing approachs...

Rekros · Dec 13, 2010

iamjason8 said:
So is his U-Air which beat GaW's D-Air.

Not quite...

skip to 1:43 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EFaa521Jks

If TL has high % I wouldn't recommend it :/

Ic0slay3r · Dec 13, 2010

That's kinda weird, I thought that Up-Air beated GaW's Dair 100% of the time. Maybe he was able to hit TL by the side or something.

Chsal · Dec 13, 2010

From what I remember its to do with how fast you are moving up.

If you are falling you don't get hit, but if you Uair as soon as you jump both of you get hit.

Still, not a bad trade since your Uair is almost guaranteed to be less stale lol.

MJG · Dec 13, 2010

The angle of TL's Up Air is what determines the "Trading hits" factor.

In other words, my angle in that video was bad.

TheJerm · Dec 26, 2010

This is slightly in TLs favor. Just keep the GnW away from you and kill early with up air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qAyHeNl5yU

Go to 7:58

MJG · Dec 26, 2010

Nice.

Thank you jerm. Something I should start doing is putting videos up for the current match ups being discussed in the OP.

Thebest1pj · Dec 26, 2010

what?I told you guys to start doing that back in 08 lol. but nooooooooooo one wanna listen to pj

TheJerm · Dec 26, 2010

Maybe because this was established since March 08

MJG · Jan 1, 2011

Mr. Game and Watch: By Jerm and MJG

Mr. Game and Watch: 55:45 TL.
Things to keep in mind:
-Keep GnW away from you at all times. If you get above Gnw the air, just be careful and don't try to land on top of him. GnW gets most of his damage on TL when he is under TL.
-Keep throwing projectiles.
-Teching in this MU can be useful but TL doesn't necessarily need to tech. Past 50% or so, TL can just stand up without being down smashed. The problem with this though is that the opponent can just charge an Up Smash or do Jab to Grab if they see that the TL user keeps on standing up.
-All of TLs Aerials REALLY shut down GnW for the most part (especially bair).
-TL can Up Smash GnW during GnW's bair when GnW doesn't space his bair well.
-Zair out ranges everything GnW has.
-Up Air will beat GnWs down air if you angle it correctly.

Useful Moves:
Bombs, Zair, Bair, Nair, Uair, Boomerang.

Useful Kill Moves
Uair, Fair, Up smash, Up Tilt, Bair (depends on the staleness of this move)

Stages:
FD, PS1, SV

Ban:
Halberd, Green Greens, Yoshi's Island, BF

Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qAyHeNl5yU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q3ZvMkOCoQ

Claire Diviner · Jan 1, 2011

45:55 (G&W's favor).

Game & Watch's attacks outprioritizes near anything we have not named "Zair". This matchup isn't easy by the strictest definition of the term. Toon Link needs to keep moving - preferably away from G&W - and harass him with projectiles. Spam projectiles, and constantly switch them up. Proper spacing is the key to the matchup.
The problem is that G&W's spacing beats Toon Link's, with the exception for our Zair. Don't overly spam Zair to the point of being predictable. Instead, use it as a means to keep an approaching G&W away.
Killing G&W isn't really that hard, as we've a good assortment of finishers that can launch him where even Bucket Braking won't save him, namely our Usmash (possibly our best killer), Fsmash (though not a good move in general), Fair (surprisingly powerful), Dsmash, Utilt (but at higher percents), Uair, and Bair (at higher percents, unless you somehow keep it fresh).
G&W will try to pressure you up close, since that's pretty much all he has. But a lot can be said about his options on us. Our projectiles, though good for keeping him at bay, do not come out very fast, and that's why this matchup isn't as good as it could be for Toon Link. Just run, spam, and then go for the kill when G&W is at about 120% or so. Other than that, everything else that can be said has alreay been stated by ~mjg~.

Thebest1pj · Jan 1, 2011

Forward Smash shouldn't be used unless you can predict that GnW will Dair next to you. Even then, anyone that knows that you can just DI out of the first hit will do so. Look at the synopsis again and watch jerm playing utdzac or mjg playing hylian.

Claire Diviner · Jan 1, 2011

shadow1pj said:
Forward Smash shouldn't be used unless you can predict that GnW will Dair next to you. Even then, anyone that knows that you can just DI out of the first hit will do so. Look at the synopsis again and watch jerm playing utdzac or mjg playing hylian.

Hence my note on Fsmash being a bad move in general. I only listed it because a CAN kill.

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