Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
NOTE: This thread will not cover the subject of whether Wobbling should be banned. I'd prefer to leave any discussions of that sort out, as they have been beaten to death numerous times in the past. Thank-you.
"Wobbling is banned."
This is a very common rule in a lot of tournaments... But what exactly does it mean? Does this rule actually prevent "wobbling"? That is one of the main questions I hope to answer with this thread.
First of all, let me define exactly what Wobbling is:
"When a player has grabbed another player, the grabbed player cannot escape from the grab during hit-stun, no matter how much they mash. This prevents players from escaping during the middle of pummels." This mechanic has two effects though that, presumably, weren't intended by the game's developers:
"Wobbling is banned."
This is a very common rule in a lot of tournaments... But what exactly does it mean? Does this rule actually prevent "wobbling"? That is one of the main questions I hope to answer with this thread.
First of all, let me define exactly what Wobbling is:
"When a player has grabbed another player, the grabbed player cannot escape from the grab during hit-stun, no matter how much they mash. This prevents players from escaping during the middle of pummels." This mechanic has two effects though that, presumably, weren't intended by the game's developers:
- The Ice Climbers, being two characters in one, can perfectly alternate hits so the opponent is ALWAYS in hit-stun. This is what is commonly considered "Wobbling", and there are several variations (jab, ftilt, dtilt and blizzard are the only ones I know of).
- In team battles or free-for-alls, two players can achieve the same effect as the Ice Climbers' wobbling by alternating their hits similarly. This is most easily performed with multi-hit moves like Sheik's jab or Bowser's Fire Breath.
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"...So...", some of you may be asking, "what is the issue here anyway?" Answering that will require a little explanation... See, there are two differents things (as far as I can tell) that Wobbling could be interpreted as:
"...So...", some of you may be asking, "what is the issue here anyway?" Answering that will require a little explanation... See, there are two differents things (as far as I can tell) that Wobbling could be interpreted as:
- Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab.
- Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab x amount of times/for x amount of time/etc...
The first, assuming it was a global rule, would prevent pummeling in grabs. This would obviously lead to many warnings or DQs from accidental pummels (or attacks, in teams) and would take out a reasonably important and consequential mechanic from the game.
So let's assume it was an Ice Climber specific rule instead. If we look at this at face value, it appears that Ice Climbers lose the ability to rack up damage during a grab with pummels and blizzard. No big deal, right? It's not like it's a large part of their game.
However, this rule also means that if the Ice Climber player ever accidentally used an attack during a grab under any circumstances, they receive a warning or disqualification. Now, what about Nana? How often do you think her AI would cause her to randomly cost you games due to this rule?
Ice Climbers would be doomed to Z Tier (Popo would actually be more viable) because of a rule that is the equivalent of banning Reflector to stop Fox's wall infinites.
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Let's look at the second rule. This is idenitcal to the first but with a little addition to more specifically target the problem. Some examples are:
"Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab twice in a row is banned".
"Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab for 3 seconds in a row is banned".
"Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab with Ftilt/Dtilt/Jab/Blizzard is banned".
The first rule, from quantity, is simple enough. The number needs to be high enough that it can't be triggered accidentally by Nana or the ICs player, but low enough that it actually stops Wobbling. If this rule was to be used, the number would obviously have to be stated in the rule-set.
A potential issue with this rule is that it still allows for a less potent version of Wobbling. Assume the limit was set at 5. An Ice Climbers player could very simply do 5 "wobbles" before throwing out a SH/reverse d-throw > re-grab, hand-off, or other chain-grab and then repeat.
For the second rule, from time, the same potential issue arises: Players can still Wobble > Other chain-grab > Wobble. A second issue is timing. Who is to say that the player didn't Wobble for 2.9 seconds and then stop? I doubt anyone would be able, prepared or willing to count the frames or in-game timer perfectly.
The final rule possesses the same issue that I detailed in the section above, the chance of accidentally triggering one of those moves, so I don't think I need to go into any more detail here.
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The points I am trying to make here are that our current Wobbling rule is too vague and that potential fixes would be difficult to put in place considering the thin line between "overly restrictive" and "pointlessly unrestrictive".
I now have two questions for anyone reading this thread:
So let's assume it was an Ice Climber specific rule instead. If we look at this at face value, it appears that Ice Climbers lose the ability to rack up damage during a grab with pummels and blizzard. No big deal, right? It's not like it's a large part of their game.
However, this rule also means that if the Ice Climber player ever accidentally used an attack during a grab under any circumstances, they receive a warning or disqualification. Now, what about Nana? How often do you think her AI would cause her to randomly cost you games due to this rule?
Ice Climbers would be doomed to Z Tier (Popo would actually be more viable) because of a rule that is the equivalent of banning Reflector to stop Fox's wall infinites.
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Let's look at the second rule. This is idenitcal to the first but with a little addition to more specifically target the problem. Some examples are:
"Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab twice in a row is banned".
"Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab for 3 seconds in a row is banned".
"Hitting the opponent while they are in a grab with Ftilt/Dtilt/Jab/Blizzard is banned".
The first rule, from quantity, is simple enough. The number needs to be high enough that it can't be triggered accidentally by Nana or the ICs player, but low enough that it actually stops Wobbling. If this rule was to be used, the number would obviously have to be stated in the rule-set.
A potential issue with this rule is that it still allows for a less potent version of Wobbling. Assume the limit was set at 5. An Ice Climbers player could very simply do 5 "wobbles" before throwing out a SH/reverse d-throw > re-grab, hand-off, or other chain-grab and then repeat.
For the second rule, from time, the same potential issue arises: Players can still Wobble > Other chain-grab > Wobble. A second issue is timing. Who is to say that the player didn't Wobble for 2.9 seconds and then stop? I doubt anyone would be able, prepared or willing to count the frames or in-game timer perfectly.
The final rule possesses the same issue that I detailed in the section above, the chance of accidentally triggering one of those moves, so I don't think I need to go into any more detail here.
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The points I am trying to make here are that our current Wobbling rule is too vague and that potential fixes would be difficult to put in place considering the thin line between "overly restrictive" and "pointlessly unrestrictive".
I now have two questions for anyone reading this thread:
- Are there any other options?
- If not, is it really worth "banning" wobbling?
