What is a Wobbling ban?

[Cactuar]

Not quite perfect Cact.

How is the bigfonted text contributing to that not being legit?

The only way to get out of range of grab is to SDI. Even if your opponent accidentally does it, you can tell them to SDI back down to get grabbed. It is actually a really easy aspect to enforce.

As for the "a few seconds" thing. It is just a short time where it becomes obvious it is being used for stalling rather than racking damage. If you are clearly not doing anything, or even doing something intentionally slowly, it is very easy to spot and call out, and definitely easier to do than to spot the many many variations of wobbling.

You wanna maybe give an explanation rather than quote text and say meaningless words?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not quite perfect Cact.

QFT, I've considered most of them before and they're ridiculously difficult to enforce.

The only one I see that works is lose stock, and what sort of procedure could be used for that?

How is the bigfonted text contributing to that not being legit?

The only way to get out of range of grab is to SDI. Even if your opponent accidentally does it, you can tell them to SDI back down to get grabbed. It is actually a really easy aspect to enforce.

As for the "a few seconds" thing. It is just a short time where it becomes obvious it is being used for stalling rather than racking damage. If you are clearly not doing anything, or even doing something intentionally slowly, it is very easy to spot and call out, and definitely easier to do than to spot the many many variations of wobbling.

You wanna maybe give an explanation rather than quote text and say meaningless words?

Cactuar, the point with this thread was that the ban on wobbling was imprecise and subjective, which it is.

Your solution to allowing the freeze glitch in turn is imprecise and subjective, why would he support it?


Frankly, I can't think of any setup that could be explicitly defined in the rules that an IC player could not find a way to stall with (I assume we'd be applying the 300% cap). We had to explicitly mandate what moves to use and what the timeframe was between uses, and that's completely unenforcable without going into frame-time or at the very least having a TO hover over with a stop-watch.

 

[Cactuar]

Ok.

When player is stuck in the freeze glitch, they may choose to forfeit stock. Failure to comply by the IC player will result in a loss of match.

Procedure is for IC to grab to unfreeze, player runs off stage.

No more stalling issue.


What do.

 

[adumbrodeus]

There's always voluntary forfeiture of stock in the case of stalling. Solves many problems.

True, problem is that it requires action on the part of the opponent, which has concerns.

If they have to grab immiediately when the opponent forfits the stock or lose, then you have the sdi issue again.


Honestly, you might be right, it's possible to have freeze glitch equate to a lost stock, but the rules behind it would be ridiculously complicated and precise, I dunno maybe the easiest solution is just to require them to grab their opponent immiediately when they freeze glitch them, as long as wobbling is legal it equates to the same thing, and since wobbling uses stuntime, you can't stall with it at all.

 

[Cactuar]

How is the SDI an issue when you couple it with the intentional SDI rule?

From what I've seen, the rules to support the Freeze glitch being in competitive play would be like 3-5 sentences. I realize that may be "ridiculously complicated" for some...

 

[Beat!]

Allow all sorts of Wobbling up to 300% and the problem is solved.

Not gonna get into the freeze glitch as I know too little about it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

How is the SDI an issue when you couple it with the intentional SDI rule?

From what I've seen, the rules to support the Freeze glitch being in competitive play would be like 3-5 sentences. I realize that may be "ridiculously complicated" for some...

Because telling whether something is intentional is subjective without extensive player evidence, frankly "intentional" in a tournament setting like this is ALWAYS gonna be subjective.

If you just go "any sdi that moves them out of range" their opponent could potentially shift them out of grab range using the KB from the ICs moves.


Frankly, the reason why those rules aren't complicated is that they don't cover a ton of eventualities that may come up in-tournament.

 

[Cactuar]

I was under the impression that the freeze glitch preventing KB from occurring...

 

[adumbrodeus]

I was under the impression that the freeze glitch preventing KB from occurring...

It just arrests it, you'll still get a very small amount of KB (about equivilent to SDI with it).


I guess you could potentially require them to be constantlly SDI'ing towards a grabbable location on the nearest platform.

 

[Cactuar]

Weird. I use the freeze glitch in friendlies a lot and I get them to 999% while keeping them at ground whenever they don't have their hands on the controller. I always notice when someone SDIs a hit during it as the movement is significant.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Weird. I use the freeze glitch in friendlies a lot and I get them to 999% while keeping them at ground whenever they don't have their hands on the controller. I always notice when someone SDIs a hit during it as the movement is significant.

Same here, I've moved people to a number of locations with it. You CAN keep them on the ground, it just depends on the move you use.

 

[Cactuar]

So, if the KB has super slight influence, the only way to get them out of grab range unless they are intentionally SDIing would be to... hit them with moves that send vertically...

I feel like this just leads into a situation that is easily pointed out... "that ***** used upsmash 30 times in a row after freeze glitching me."

 

[adumbrodeus]

So, if the KB has super slight influence, the only way to get them out of grab range unless they are intentionally SDIing would be to... hit them with moves that send vertically...

I feel like this just leads into a situation that is easily pointed out... "that ***** used upsmash 30 times in a row after freeze glitching me."

Well, lots of moves CAN send you up, especially if you hit with one hitbox over another. This means it's possible to send em out of range via moves that you wouldn't think. If this is acknowledged, it's possible to make it look like the opponent was doing that via SDI.


The core being that it's extremely difficult to discern who was at fault, making it unenforcible. The only way you could allow it to occur is if you required the frozen player to SDI towards the nearest platform and make them solely responsible for being in grab range.

 

[Cactuar]

Required freeze glitched opponents to SDI down doesn't sound difficult to implement.

 

[john!]

how about this: allow wobbling, but opponent must be released from the grab when they hit 300% and cannot be killed directly from grab. that way the IC's player has to land another hit to get the kill.

 

[Bones0]

Define: "directly from a grab"

Honestly, we should just keep wobbling legal and play insanely *** against anyone who wobbles. Problem solved. Crisis averted.

 

[slartibartfast42]

I think that if the freeze glitch is legal, it should be legal for the person frozen to SDI up to win on time if they are up on stocks. It's not hard to counter, just regrab them before they get too high, or don't freeze glitch at all. But the IC's player shouldn't have the same ability, as that pretty much allows an IC's player to win a match instantly via freeze glitch on each player's first stock.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Define: "directly from a grab"

Honestly, we should just keep wobbling legal and play insanely *** against anyone who wobbles. Problem solved. Crisis averted.

Exactly.


Also, stop pming me about MD/VA tournaments please, I live in NY and am only there fore nationals occassionally.The more i drop by the melee boards, the more annoying having you on ignore is.

 

[Wobbles]

You can just throw them repeatedly. B-throw and d-throw don't break freeze glitch; there's zero risk for an intelligent IC player.

 

[Ghostbone]

Don't ban wobbling.

Play 1.2

Problem solved?


I don't really know what to do about the freeze glitch for 1.0 and 1.1......

 

[MTKO]

Don't ban wobbling.

Play 1.2

Problem solved?


I don't really know what to do about the freeze glitch for 1.0 and 1.1......

The freeze glitch is in 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2

 

[Bones0]

Exactly.


Also, stop pming me about MD/VA tournaments please, I live in NY and am only there fore nationals occassionally.The more i drop by the melee boards, the more annoying having you on ignore is.

Wow, my bad. Weird I had you on my list of people to message if you're in NY...

Took you off though; you shouldn't receive any more. Sorry 'bout that. You should have just asked before ignoring me! LOL

 

[Ghostbone]

The freeze glitch is in 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2

Really? Ok then....

 

[Redact]

I'm just waiting for someone to get good at hand-offs, then the community will be up in tears about that too.

Why do IC's have to do this, you're soiling my game!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm just waiting for someone to get good at hand-offs

Doing hand-offs is easy against almost every character... The reason they aren't used as often is because you need to be by a ledge.

 

[Ghostbone]

I still don't see any positive affects from banning wobbling.

I mean you're nerfing a sub-par character, how is decreasing character variability a good thing?

And does Peach really deserve a buff against IC?

It just seems people are selfish and don't want to have to deal with wobbling.

 

[Smasher89]

It just seems people are selfish and don't want to have to deal with wobbling.

Exacly same thing that happens with stages getting banned, even though Wobbling´s got a even weaker argument for getting it banned.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Exacly same thing that happens with stages getting banned, even though Wobbling´s got a even weaker argument for getting it banned.

Ah yes... the pound 4 and beyond stagelist...

Wow, my bad. Weird I had you on my list of people to message if you're in NY...

Took you off though; you shouldn't receive any more. Sorry 'bout that. You should have just asked before ignoring me! LOL

You probably took it from the pound 4 list.

TBH, I thought you just did TOing for VA/MD on this account, so I wasn't concerned about not hearing from you, but these days I seem to be running into posts from you all the time, gets a little annoying.

 

[Dart!]

Why should versions be treated differently to separate games?

are you ********? serious question

 

[Ghostbone]

are you ********? serious question

Treating PAL and NTSC Melee as the same game is like treating any of the brawl hacks and brawl as the same game....

They're different, even if only slightly, and you can't justify banning something in NTSC just because it was changed in PAL.